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CNN Reports, Trump Expected to Order Troop Cuts in Iraq, Afghanistan; AMA, Other Medical Groups Call on Trump Administration to Share COVID Info with Biden Transition Team; Trump Aims to Undermine Biden's Legitimacy Even as Lawsuits Fizzle. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired November 17, 2020 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:04]

RYAN BROWNE, CNN PENTAGON REPORTER: So this decision could potentially very much constrain President-elect Biden as he decides to come in and set his own policy for the region. Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Ryan, thank you for your reporting.

Joining me now for much on this is former NATO Supreme Ally Commander General Wesley Clark. General, thank you for jumping on. I really appreciate it.

First, I'd like to get your reaction to what we -- what The New York Times is reporting now about President Trump asking about a military strike on Iran. What do you think -- he was talked down from it, but what do you think of that when you look at the point that he is in his presidency in these final days?

WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think it would be an outrageous act, really. It's true the Iranians are building up low- enriched uranium and it's true that they always had the potential to breakout, and it's true that they're working around the edges of the agreement. But our allies are still supporting it. And so the Biden administration or the Biden team has indicated a willingness to reconsider and possibly bring that agreement back together again.

So a strike by the United States risks war, escalation of conflict in the region, and it is also a strike against the flexibility of the Biden team to reengage Iran in some more constructive fashion. Not a good idea.

BOLDUAN: And also -- not a good idea. Let me ask you what you think about this idea. CNN is reporting that, as you were just hearing from Ryan Browne, about they're anticipating -- military leaders are anticipating a formal order coming from the president to drawdown a significant number of troops from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Look, especially when you look at Afghanistan, Afghanistan is a mess. Afghanistan is a complex case that is not -- it's not easy to solve with a buildup of troops or a drawdown of troops. It's not easy. But is President Trump doing the right thing here?

CLARK: Well, I don't think there's any strategic rationale for what President Trump is doing. It's not going to facilitate negotiations, it doesn't increase the security of the Afghan government or our own forces. We've got a lot of civilian contractors in there, many have been former military. So the 2,500 number is a little bit misleading. We may have 10,000 Americans there.

But in order to be safe, you have to have intelligence, you have to have the logistics, you have to have security, you have to have some offensive capability from armed helicopters, you can call in aircraft but they're based in the area so somebody is maintaining and flying those aircraft. So there's probably a minimum force size package that I'm sure that General Milley and Secretary Esper are aware of that and that's why they didn't want to call it down.

But, Kate, here is the other thing. I mean, this has been since 2001 a series of policy misjudgments and missteps all along the way. And this is really all about Pakistan and India and their rivalry on the subcontinent. Pakistan wants Afghanistan as its rear area. India wants to check that to put more pressure on Pakistan.

India and Pakistan are nuclear-armed nations, the United States has never constructed an effective policy to persuade Pakistan to let Afghanistan alone. So the Taliban all along have been supporting, to one degree or another, and guided, to one degree or another, by Pakistan.

The current peace talks are stalled. The Taliban has not broken relations successfully and completely with Al Qaeda. They're still rolling up government forces. And this is supposed to come to a conclusion in May of 2021.

So this is -- no matter whether the troops are pulled out or not, it's going to be a big headache for the Biden administration because, as you said, it's a complex situation. You can't fix it by putting 10,000 more troops in. You can't fix it by pulling all the troops out. And there's still a terrorist threat. So this is a real dilemma for U.S. policymakers.

The basic thing is it's easy to start a war, it's really hard to stop it on the right condition.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely right, General. But in the immediate that you're looking at, right, Trump is leaving office in two months. This is Biden takes over January 20th. What can the Biden team do on the -- in those first days, if this drawdown happens to, I don't know, mitigate negative fallout? Is there a way to slow walk a drawdown?

CLARK: Well, in this case, the drawdown probably will be slow walked. But maybe it will be completed by then. We don't know how the military is going to respond to the guidance. We don't know exactly what the guidance says. It may be possible to surge in some temporary reinforcements if the security of the U.S. presence there is at risk.

[11:35:03] But the Biden administration is going to look at the overall situation. They're going to look at where the peace talks are, what it would take to get a successful conclusion to the peace talks, what are the positive incentives, what are the negative incentives and see whether there's any way to salvage this situation. No administration, no leader wants to simply say, okay, I said I'm walking away, the people that supported me all these years, yes, they took money from me, some of them were corrupt, but we give up, that's not a good way to start.

And for President Trump to do this is sort of 30 percent sort of sabotage and probably 70 percent, like I said I was going to get this done and I'm going to get this done, so when I'm out of office, I can say I didn't fail on this totally.

BOLDUAN: I tell you, general, that doesn't add up to any recipe for success on the way out of the door. That's for sure. General, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

Coming up for us, the nation's top medical groups with an urgent plea to the Trump administration right now. What they're asking for, that's ahead.

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[11:40:00]

BOLDUAN: This just in to CNN. Some of the nation's top medical groups now pleading with President Trump and his administration to step up and coordinate with the Biden transition on the response to the coronavirus pandemic.

In a letter just released from the American Medical Association and the national associations representing hospitals and nurses, they collectively write this in part, quote, all information about the capacity of the Strategic National Stockpile, the assets from Operation Warp Speed and plans for dissemination of therapeutics and vaccines needs to be shared as quickly as possible to ensure there is continuity in strategic planning so that there is no lapse in our ability to care for patients.

They also say, it is from this frontline human perspective that we urge you to share critical data and information as soon as possible.

Now, the president of the AMA has also been speaking out on other fronts, this weekend, speaking out and talking about how doctors are being forced in this moment of the pandemic to wage a war on two fronts. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SUSAN BAILEY, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: Never again should physicians have to fight a war on two fronts, caring for severely ill patients in a raging pandemic while at the same time battling a public relations war that questions the legitimacy of our work and our motives. This is unacceptable and we will not go back. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Not mincing words.

Joining me now is Dr. Susan Bailey, the president of the American Medical Association. Doctor, thank you for being here.

I was really struck by your words that we just played there. I want to ask you that in just a second. But just first on this letter that was just put out. Why did you all feel the need in this moment to speak up like this and call on the administration to take that step and coordinate with the Biden transition?

BAILEY: Thank you for having me. There just isn't a moment to waste. We are in a critical portion of the pandemic where hospitalizations are beginning to skyrocket again. There are twice as many people in the hospital now as there were in September. We're afraid more deaths will follow. And we need to do everything we can to make sure that information is shared in a timely manner and that we are able to utilize all the tools in our tool box to fight this pandemic.

We know that unnecessary hospitalizations will result, chronic diseases will result, unnecessary deaths will result and we'll end up with unnecessarily empty chairs at holiday tables if we don't work together soon and remind everybody that even know that we're excited about new vaccines that are on the horizon, the tools that we have that work now are wearing masks, washing your hands, physically distancing and avoiding indoor gatherings.

BOLDUAN: And, Doctor, the Trump administration has said consistently since the election that information is publically available in terms of vaccine distribution, that's for sure. They've also said that they will -- that they'll -- the Biden transition will be brought in and will be briefed when the time is appropriate, but that it's not yet that time. What kind of damage is actually going to be done if the Trump team doesn't work with the Biden team on this front?

BAILEY: As I said, we are already in a surge, and if we don't stop that quickly, we will see unnecessary deaths. It's important that all information be shared. Doctors, nurses, other health care workers are putting their lives on the line every day to try to save lives. And we need our leaders to work together regardless of party affiliation to make sure that we're doing everything we can to stop this virus now.

[11:45:05]

BOLDUAN: And to your comments from last week about how -- the fight that doctors are having to wage, a war on two fronts, as you put it. And you said, we will not go back. It was really striking. What is the impact of having to fight a war on these two fronts, not just against the actual virus but against misinformation?

BAILEY: Doctors are dying out there caring for COVID-19 patients, so are nurses, so are other health care professionals. And the ones that are still working are exhausted. They're struggling. They're burned out. They're still having a hard time, in some cases, getting personal protective equipment.

And to have to deal with that type of unbearable stress and pressure and then realize that there are folks out there that are challenging your ethics to take care of your patients that are questioning the science and the data that you're using to make your decisions, it's incredibly demoralizing.

And this war on two fronts is simply intolerable. We all need to be working together to fight the coronavirus. We don't need to be fighting against ourselves.

BOLDUAN: It can't go unsaid that, you know, one of the persons pushing this misinformation is the president himself, the impact of that.

BAILEY: Well, it's -- we've been fighting disinformation and misinformation from many different aspects during the pandemic. We think it's important to listen to our public health officials, to listen to the science and to the data and all work together. But we're really all on the same side when it comes to the coronavirus. We want to fight it and we want this pandemic to end as soon as it can.

BOLDUAN: That's the most important reminder. We really are all on the same side on this one. Doctor, thank you for being here.

BAILEY: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up next, despite set back after set back, President Trump continues his legal fight against the election results. Coming up, CNN's new reporting on why he's doing it.

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[11:50:00]

BOLDUAN: Nine cases Friday, challenging the election, were denied or dropped. Four cases yesterday also dropped. Even still, CNN has learned when President Trump found out his attorneys were dropping a lawsuit in Arizona, he was surprised, according to sources, so much so he summoned members of his team to the Oval Office, demanded to know why it appeared they were giving up the fight.

According to CNN's reporting, Trump's strategy here appears to be designed to cede conspiracy theories, raise more money, maintain power over the Republican Party and delegitimize the Biden presidency. So what now?

Joining me, Jim Messina, he was President Obama's deputy chief of staff, he also served as a top official in the Obama/Biden transition team. It's good to see you again, Jim. Let's get to it.

If these are the goals of the president in these final two months, what should the Biden team be doing? If this was 2008, what would you be talking about right now, internally?

JIM MESSINA, FORMER OBAMA DEUPTY WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: I think Biden is doing exactly what he should do, which is just focus on his day-to-day job, talking to the American public about what he wants to do as president, focusing on the economy, focusing on COVID and just allowing President Trump to sort of be out there delegitimizing himself. I think Biden doesn't want to get in another fight.

The country went through the longest and ugliest political campaign, elected Democrats to run the House and White House and the Republicans to run the Senate. What does that message say, Kate? They want everyone to work together. And that's exactly the opposite of what President Trump is doing. And long-term, that's what the American public will see.

BOLDUAN: If you look at kind of all the moves we've been talking about throughout the hour from the president in these final moments, preparing to drawdown troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, asking about military strike options against Iran, selling off oil leases in the Arctic wildlife refuge, looking at more aggressive measures against China in order to box Biden in. If you're in the transition and you are watching this play out, what can you do about it? How easily can this be undone come January 20th?

MESSINA: Well, most of it can be undone. And it was amazing. It's just the exact opposite of what President Bush did. He bent over backwards to make sure we were ready and worked really closely with us. And instead, Trump is doing everything he can to undermine Biden. But most things he is going to do can be undone with executive orders. Some of it will be little bit of a pain but it's all doable and it's all just a distraction from a cranky guy who is really upset he lost.

BOLDUAN: When you say it is a distraction, and that Biden is doing the right thing by just keeping a steady hand on it, but at some point, the administration not coordinating with the transition does go on too long, does become a problem. What point does that start to worry you?

MESSINA: Close to when the Electoral College meets. After December 14th, if he continues this, then there's really no grounds, then it really just is ridiculousness. And I think right now, the Republican Party is trying baby him, saying, oh, come on, we need to let him slowly get to this. Well, no.

To your point, at some point, we need to kind of grow up and realize this is the United States. And as your previous guest said, we are really in this together. And we are Americans. And at some point, we have got to coordinate and get ready for the new incoming administration who walks in these historic challenges.

BOLDUAN: What will you say, and, again, this is hypothetical, if Trump decides to not take part in the inauguration, does not take part in a peaceful transfer of power?

[11:55:02]

MESSINA: That he just continues to burn his own legacy down, that history will judge him incredibly harshly for these acts. 44 presidents in a row have done the right thing here. And if he is going to do this, he will just continue to burn his own legacy down, and it's all okay.

BOLDUAN: There are so many days and it will feel like probably four years in the 64 days left before the transition happens. It's good to see you, Jim. Talk to you soon.

MESSINA: Thanks.

BOLDUAN: Still ahead for us, coronavirus hospitalizations are at an all-time high, forcing governors and mayors across the country to enact stricter and stricter regulations. That's ahead.

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