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Chaos in President Trump's Final Days?; Pandemic Raging. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 17, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Every day is worse than the last. You see the map here. More than 73,000 Americans are hospitalized with COVID just today. That is the highest total ever.

On the heels of promising news, though, in one vaccine trial, we are learning another drug giant, Pfizer, is now planning to test distribution of its vaccine candidate in four states. But getting that vaccine to the people who need it will require leadership. And the president is refusing to coordinate any sort of response or vital information with his successor and his team.

And so, today, Joe Biden is assuring national security experts he believes it's time to put the United States -- quote -- "back at the head of the table," and that he's already telling world leaders that -- quote -- "America is back."

And until that vaccine becomes available, public health officials are urging Americans not to let their guards down, as the winter months roll in. More and more governors are having to reinforce restrictions across their states. And that goes for Democratic governors and Republican governors.

CNN's Nick Watt has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): This is simply the fastest increase California has seen since the beginning of this pandemic.

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): So, this morning, 94 percent of Californians woke up under the Golden State's strictest COVID-19 restrictions, and a curfew is under consideration.

DR. UMAIR SHAH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS, PUBLIC HEALTH: 2020 was like, in a football game, the first half. The holidays and where we are right now is halftime. We have got a whole half ahead of us.

WATT: Nationwide, average daily case counts are now double the peak of the summer surge. More than 1,000 people are now dying every day, also higher than that summer surge. Yes, two vaccines are close, but there will be plenty more dying before they get here.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: We don't want the extraordinary success of these two vaccines to get people to be complacent. I have often said, help is on the way, but help is not here yet.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good luck, folks.

WATT: And the president is engineering maybe the messiest transition in history in the midst of a pandemic.

FAUCI: Transitions are important. And if you don't have a smooth transition, you would not optimize whatever efforts you're doing.

WATT: The Navajo Nation taking the initiative, shutting down for three weeks.

DR. JILL JIM, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NAVAJO NATION DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH: The cases just have been increasing. There's no plateau. There is no flattening.

WATT: Up in Iowa, yesterday, an all-time high death toll. Today, there is finally a partial mask mandate.

DR. AUSTIN BAETH, UNITYPOINT HEALTH DES MOINES: I think that health care workers from across Iowa gave a collective sigh of relief.

WATT: But no mask mandate in South Dakota, despite ridiculous rates of infection.

GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R-SD): My people are happy. They're happy because they're free.

WATT: Not John Bjorkman, caught COVID, eventually airlifted to Minnesota.

JOHN BJORKMAN, COVID-19 VICTIM: When they flew me over here, I literally didn't know if I would see the next day.

WATT: He did, but not many more. John died after 30 days in the hospital.

CHRIS BJORKMAN, WIFE OF COVID-19 VICTIM: I want people to not go through this, what I did. I want people to care enough about their neighbors, their family that they wear a mask.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: Now, every week, the CDC puts out a sort of status report. The language has been getting more and more ominous. The latest version of this report speaks of an aggressive, unrelenting, expanding spread across the country.

It says the situation is not improving. It's deteriorating. And this report calls the current mitigation efforts inadequate -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Our thoughts with John's family. Nick Watt, thank you so much, just for the big-picture look at what's at stake in this country.

Let's continue the conversation. With me now, Dr. Rob Davidson. He's an emergency room physician and executive director of the Committee to Protect Medicare.

And so, Dr. Davidson, here we are again, again reporting on these upticks in cases and hospitalizations. What do you think it's about right now? Is it fatigue? Is it colder weather driving people indoors? What do you think?

DR. ROB DAVIDSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COMMITTEE TO PROTECT MEDICARE: I mean, I honestly think we have a huge chunk of our society that's been listened to the president, listening to the governor of South Dakota, thinking that, hey, as long as I have my freedom not to wear a mask, as long as I can get together with my friends and play video games and have dinner, then I'm happy.

Well, they're happy until they end up in the hospital. And, right now, we're seeing critical shortages of beds. We have shortages of staff to staff those beds. And the actions we take now will impact what happens three weeks from now.

But what on earth are we going to do for three weeks? We don't know around here. We're going into surge capacity. we just hope we can hang on. And I wish people would hear more of these stories, so they would just listen to the basic science.

BALDWIN: Well, listen to this. There was an emergency room nurse in -- speaking of -- in South Dakota, who told CNN just yesterday that she has patients on their deathbeds, Dr. Davidson, still denying that the virus is real.

[15:05:12]

Have you heard of anything like that?

DAVIDSON: Well, I have not heard of that, as dramatic as that.

But I have certainly had patients come into my emergency department who tested positive for COVID. And they didn't deny they had it. But when I asked them their behaviors, they said, oh, yes, I have been going out with friends. Oh, yes, I really don't wear a mask. I don't think they work. I have heard that they might make you more sick.

And so, despite knowing they have this, despite getting hospitalized, despite being on high-flow oxygen, they still just sort of think everything they learned from the president and his allies, that that is what must be true.

And it's just demoralizing. As a health care practitioner for 20 years, someone who just cares about my community, it's really demoralizing.

BALDWIN: Hopefully, it clicks for them once people like you have treated them and they wear more of these.

Joe Biden, he said pretty bluntly yesterday in that press conference that the current obstruction of the presidential transition, and his lack of access to classified briefings, lack of access to COVID distribution information could cost lives.

Do you agree with that?

DAVIDSON: Absolutely.

I mean, they have plans to increase rapid turnaround testing, which we desperately need. We're now waiting five to seven days for tests to come back. You can't test and trace when you do that. You have people walking around infecting the whole community before they know they were positive.

And if they want to be able to do this on day one, or as close to day one as possible, they need to get in there. They need to see what's happening. And they need to be prepared to hit the ground running. It's the only hope that we have now, 64 days away from inauguration. And we need them to be ready.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you about President Trump's controversial doctor on this Coronavirus Task Force Dr. Scott Atlas.

I know. I see you shaking your head. You know where I'm going. Over the weekend, he went after Michigan's new restrictions to slow the spread of the virus. And you are there. You are in Michigan. Let me read his tweet.

He said: "The only way this stops is if people rise up. You get what you accept. Freedom matters. Step up."

And so now Stanford, where Atlas is this senior fellow, is now coming out against his comments. Do you think that's enough, Dr. Davidson?

DAVIDSON: No, they need to can him.

I mean, I -- one of the things I can't wait for when the inauguration happens is that he will be gone. He's a radiologist, which is great, has nothing to do with public health. He probably hasn't taken care of a patient in 30-some years. He's a right-wing ideologue who is going after my governor, who's doing everything she can, despite a hostile state legislature and Supreme Court in our state who has taken away powers.

They're doing everything they can. We know, when the president tweeted "Liberate Michigan," after that, we had a plot to kidnap and murder Governor Whitmer and basically take down the whole state government.

So, now he's tweeting, "Rise up." I mean, there's not much difference between liberate and rise up. And whatever he claims to say, these are a call to arms for people in our state, one of the worst states for domestic terrorism.

So, I'm grateful that Governor Whitmer has said, listen, she's not going to worry about her political fortunes, about reelection or about any kind of attempts against her. She's going to do what's right and try to protect us. And she is.

BALDWIN: Thank you for doing what's right and for you protecting people in Michigan.

Dr. Davidson, always a pleasure. Thank you very much.

DAVIDSON: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Despite being denied all those classified briefings he is entitled to as president-elect, Joe Biden just received a national security briefing from a team of diplomatic, intelligence and defense experts.

CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny is there live.

And so, Jeff, tell us what went down today.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, we just a few moments ago saw the president-elect from his transition headquarters here in Wilmington, Delaware, holding a virtual briefing with more than a dozen national security advisers, really bold-face names, but from the Obama/Biden administration, not from this administration.

The point, of course, is this. The Biden transition team is trying to make the point that he is not receiving the briefings that most president-elect's normally get.

But listen to what Joe Biden said a few moments ago about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: We have been through a lot of damage done in the last four years, in my view. And we need to rebuild our institutions and our work force to reflect the full strength and diversity of our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, clearly talking about the challenges around the world.

This briefing is still under way right now, Brooke. We just saw the first few moments of that. Then it was going into a private setting, but, again, making the point President Trump has not acknowledged the outcome of the election. The Biden team is not waiting.

Every day, they're trying to show that he's in motion, as the president once again has no events on his public schedule, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We know that the president-elect is selecting his senior leadership team, Jeff. Any notable names?

ZELENY: There were some notable names.

[15:10:00]

And these are the top advisers who are going to be working just steps from him in the West Wing. His campaign manager, Jennifer O'Malley Dillon, is going to be a deputy chief of staff in the White House, a very key position.

Also, Congressman Cedric Richmond -- excuse me -- from Louisiana, was a campaign co-chair, he's going to be a senior adviser inside the White House. He's going to head the Office of Public Engagement. That is reaching out to members of Congress and others on the outside, as well as a couple longtime advisers of the former vice president, now the president-elect, also will be at his side.

So, several key names on that list, but the Cabinet secretaries, those nominations, not coming, I'm told, until after Thanksgiving -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Got it.

Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much on the Biden transition there in Delaware.

Coming up here on CNN: President Trump's scorched-earth transition and the national security nightmare it could create, including the new report that says Trump was looking to strike Iran out of his way -- on his way out of the White House.

Also ahead, the about-face from the Republican governor of Iowa, why she is now implementing a mask mandate, after resisting it for months.

And Senator Lindsey Graham on the defensive today after Georgia's Republican secretary of state suggesting the South Carolina Republican is meddling in the election. Do not miss this.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:15:47]

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

President Trump is continuing to wreak transition chaos, and now making troubling moves, setting up president-elect Joe Biden with messes to have to clean up.

In "The New York Times" today, they're reporting that President Trump actually sought out options to strike an Iran nuclear site, a move that would undoubtedly escalate a larger conflict during his last couple of weeks in office.

The president was dissuaded to attack by his advisers. But, according to "The Times," officials say he might still be looking at options. And, yesterday, as we reported here, the U.S. military was anticipating an announcement to withdraw troops from both Iraq and Afghanistan. And now that move is official, according to the Pentagon.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is live at the White House for us.

And, Kaitlan, potentially escalating a conflict with Iran with 64 days left in office, seeing through this withdrawal of troops, what is the strategy here, if there is one?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, with the troops, it's the president trying to make good on a campaign promise that, of course, he has been in office for almost four years now, but he's making it with two months left to go.

And what we just heard from the acting defense secretary when it comes to these levels of troops and what they want them to be in Iraq and Afghanistan, that's going to happen only days before Joe Biden is sworn in as the new president.

And you're hearing the pushback from Republicans already. We heard it from the former defense secretary, who we should note was only fired a week ago. The person who announced these moves today has only been on that job for about a week.

And that was because Mark Esper, the former defense secretary, sent a classified memo to the White House, arguing that the conditions on the ground were not right for the levels of troops to be reduced to this level, what they just announced at the Pentagon in the last hour.

And that's something we have also heard from top Republicans on Capitol Hill, with the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, speaking almost at the same time this was being announced and saying that he does not want any significant, earth-shattering foreign policy changes happening in the last two months of this election, this lame- duck period of a presidency.

Well, it's typically a lame-duck. But, clearly, President Trump has other intentions. And so I think the question that people are looking at, when you take these two things together, is, is the president trying to make last-minute moves on his way out the door now that he is this outgoing president?

And, of course, as "The New York Times" reported, when it came to Iran, they said that he was advised against it and decided against doing so in the end. But it still left the option open that that is something the president could pursue over the next several weeks.

And, of course, with the troop drawdowns, it remains to be seen what the effects of this are, but it is going to be something that the Biden administration will be dealing with.

And the question, of course, is whether or not this undercuts the negotiations that are happening, whether the Taliban has actually met the negotiations for this to actually be justified. And what you're hearing from the top Republican on the House Armed Services Committee is no.

So, the other thing we should note here, Brooke, is, it's really stunning that no one is taking any questions or trying to give any insight into this decision on the troop drawdown. Chris Miller, the acting defense secretary, turned and didn't take any

questions. Back here at the White House, Robert O'Brien, the national security adviser, also did not to take any questions after coming out to speak to us. And, of course, we have not seen President Trump all day.

So it's just notable. This is a major move announced by the White House. If they feel this is justified and this is the right decision, then why can't they take any questions on it and seek to explain it further for what is the process behind this decision-making?

BALDWIN: Instead, I hear you, crickets, which is unacceptable.

Kaitlan, thank you.

I want to talk about these last minute moves with Robert Malley. He is the president of the International Crisis Group and former Mideast adviser to Presidents Obama and Clinton.

So, Rob, thank you so much for coming on.

And I read your "Times" op-ed that you co wrote with Philip Gordon about the havoc Trump could wreak around the world in the waning days of his presidency. And so you -- a couple days ago, you mentioned troop withdrawal in the Middle East. Check. You mentioned Iran. Nearly check.

What is your biggest fear?

ROBERT MALLEY, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: And we mentioned one more, which may not make the headlines, which is designating the Houthi, the Yemeni rebel group, as a terrorist organization, and, again, rumors that that's going to happen.

[15:20:00]

Listen, any one of these could happen. Maybe they won't. But it's clearly another indication that President Trump on his way out both is trying to entrench, fortify his legacy and complicate president-elect Biden's, make it that much harder for him to do what he wants to do.

And we're seeing some indications already. Even the decisions that could make sense, like a withdrawal of troops, he's giving a bad name to them by doing it in such a precipitous way and, as you say, without explaining it and without taking care to make sure that the consequences won't be costly for us and for the countries which we are withdrawing.

BALDWIN: On Iran, though, specifically, when I was reading the "Times"' piece on the reporting on this would-have-been strike, they point out that this is not the first time major Iran policy has come up in the final days of a departing administration.

Just look at the last couple of days of Bush 43's administration. He didn't go on with it. In Trump's case, he was clearly talked out of it. Just to be fair, what, Rob, in your eyes is the difference between Trump wanting to do something and, say, an outgoing President Bush?

MALLEY: I mean, the issue is that President Trump, we know that his policy, his decision-making process is unpredictable. There is no process, is what people who've left the National Security Council have said.

And he may be motivated -- listen, if President Bush had done it, it also would have been pretty -- very, very, very costly. But, with President Trump, we just don't know, what are the factors that are weighing in? Is it his legacy? Is it to make it that much harder for president-elect Biden to do what he wants to do? Will it be done in consultation with his team, any consultation with the regional actors?

So the decision would be a wrong one in any event. President Trump can make a wrong one, a wrong decision, even worse by the way he's doing it.

BALDWIN: On the one hand, you have President Trump, who wanted to strike Iran. And then, on the other, it's your point about complicating things for Biden in those opening days.

You have Biden wanting to rejoin the 2015 nuclear deal. How do foreign nations know which way is up when it comes to the United States?

MALLEY: Well, I think foreign nations at this point are holding their breath. They're just waiting, counting the days, most of them, some of whom are going to miss President Trump,.

But most of them are just waiting and hoping that whatever President Trump does over the next 60 days is not going to be of such magnitude that it's going to prevent president-elect Biden from doing what they're hoping he will do, which is to restore some level of predictability, rejoining the nuclear deal, rejoining the Paris climate accord, and consulting with them on the steps, such as withdrawal from Afghanistan, which, of course, also involves NATO countries.

So, I think most of them are simply doing what so many of us are doing, is hoping that time will fly by, and that he -- and President Trump won't be able to do too much harm in the time that's remaining.

BALDWIN: I'm curious, just a final question, bigger picture. And this is something I have really been wondering about, whether it's major foreign policy decisions, or coronavirus, or election integrity.

The president just has continued to lie. And it's not just the president. Many Americans are consuming media that are pushing those same lies. Again, I have in the back of my head, 73 million Americans voted for Donald Trump. How does president-elect Biden fix that, change that?

MALLEY: That is a much bigger question, I think, than we could discuss. And it deals with domestic issues. I do think there's a deep polarization in this country.

All I could say is, from the experience of Crisis Group dealing with polarized societies elsewhere -- and this is not a unique case -- it takes a lot of work to do, because you have, in this case, close to half the country that may not believe that President Biden was legitimately elected, may not trust anything he does or says.

And it's going to take a long time to reconnect and to reach across that divide and not to treat the other side of the country as alien. Again, we see this in so many countries that Crisis Group works. In many cases, it turns out far worse than it's going to turn out here, in violence.

But these are symptoms of a deep polarization, deep divide that is going to have to be -- are going to have to be taken care of.

BALDWIN: It's a profound question. You know, this country is seemingly split into. And I'm just hoping we can come together. I'm just wondering how.

Rob Malley, thank you so much for all of your thought on all of this. Nice to have you on.

MALLEY: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up here on CNN: Iowa's Republican governor reverses course to impose a mask mandate, after slamming them for months.

Let's talk about all of this with a nurse who's been on the front lines in an ICU of this COVID fight in Iowa since March.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:29:44]

BALDWIN: Iowa in particular is facing a dire situation with the coronavirus pandemic.

It is so bad there that the governor has finally stopped resisting mask mandates. According to Johns Hopkins University, there were nearly 3,300 new cases and 34 deaths reported in Iowa yesterday. And half of Iowans tested for COVID-19 last week tested positive.

Governor Kim Reynolds imposed restrictions just yesterday, after months of criticizing them.