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President Trump Fires The Senior Homeland Security Official Who Refuted His Unfounded Claims Of Voter Fraud; New Cases, New Infections Rising Above 140,000 Yesterday Alone; Pfizer Says Their Vaccine Is Actually 95 Percent Effective; Chris Krebs Is Another To Be Fired By President Trump. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired November 18, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Wednesday morning to you. What a 24 hours in politics. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: For sure. I'm Poppy Harlow. A stunning political power play backfires on Republicans in Michigan. Hours after blocking the election board from certifying Detroit's results and sparking outrage, the republican members who blocked it reversed course at the ninth hour. The president, though not relenting in his push to undermine the election results, he just fired the senior homeland security official who refuted his unfounded claims of voter fraud.

SCIUTTO: Mr. President, if you're listening, the facts are against you. And while the president refuses to concede he lost, he will soon be out of a job. That is true. President-Elect Biden is preparing for a major fight ahead of him, this deadly and expanding pandemic gripping our nation. Take a look for a moment at this chart, United States marking the most deaths in a single day in six months.

New cases, new infections, that is rising above 140,000 yesterday alone, this as we do have some promising news on the vaccine race this morning. It's a few months off, but it is good news. But first let's begin with CNN'S Kristen Holmes for more on this major turnaround in Michigan overnight.

This was a remarkable couple of hours here, right, because two officials for a moment, were they not, were going to overturn or attempt to the results of an election and then reversed.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: That's right, Jim. I mean, they did ultimately certify, but I think Poppy's language is the best way to put it; this was a stunning political power play here. Essentially what happened is the bipartisan panel that certifies the results in Wayne County, which is the home of Detroit, Michigan's largest county; deadlocked with republicans saying that they shouldn't certify the election in that city, in that county, reason being minor discrepancies.

So what exactly does that mean because of course it sounds like it could be a big deal. We're talking about a handful of votes, numbers here that are slightly off in a poll book, meaning someone signed in but then they didn't vote. And we talked to election experts about this who say this happens all the time.

There could be a number of reasons for this, someone signed in, waited in line, had to leave, didn't cast their ballot, an envelope was mangled and wasn't marked as such. But this caused an enormous uproar here.

Keep in mind, Detroit is 78% black and so disenfranchising black voters in one of the most populous cities here was what had appeared that these republicans on the panel were trying to do, I want you to take a listen to what the Secretary of State in Michigan said about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CALL)

JOCELYN BENSON: A lot of this is just really a strategy to erode public confidence in what was a very well-run secure election and we see this as a battle front not just in Michigan but as you've mentioned around the country. And so it's also important that we call it out for what it is. I mean, these efforts are not going to be successful. The people have spoken. The election has occurred.

(END VIDEO CALL)

HARLOW: So you hear they're not going to be successful, but that didn't stop President Trump from tweeting about this, he latched on to it and even praised those panelists by saying they had courage for doing that.

HARLOW: I mean, I just kept thinking last night, as this was reversed like live on air while she was doing an interview with Chris Cuomo, I kept thinking, oh my gosh, is this the first of what's going to happen in a number of states Kristen. So I guess we have to hold our breath for that. But you also have important reporting on the GSA, or the General Services Administrator, and her delay in signing that key paperwork to begin the transition.

HOLMES: That's right. We wanted to figure out what exactly was going on behind the scenes and we spoke to multiple former colleagues, people who are friends with her, who described Emily Murphy who is supposed to sign off on this election as currently struggling, that she's receiving death threats, that she's a person who really tries to follow through on guidance but the guidance here is very vague.

One thing I want to point out is that democrats and republicans who have known her for years none of them described her as a trump loyalist. However, even those close to her, many of them said that they think it's time now for her to ascertain that election.

The big question is what exactly is going to put her over the edge. We know the only time that there has been a situation which someone didn't concede was in Bush v. Gore back in 2000, but there is no big overwhelming lawsuit here, so the question is what's going to be that tipping point. SCIUTTO: Perhaps the results of the election. Kristen Holmes, thank

you for following. With me now is CNN Election Law Analyst Franita Tolson. Franita, good to have you back on the program. Listen, what happened last night was remarkable because for a moment we had two election officials, partisans it appears, Republicans, who were taking a step to overturn the results.

[09:05:00]

A convincing vote results of an election here. Your reaction to that, granted it was overturned, but for a moment that was a remarkable possibility.

TOLSON: Yes. So I think initially there was some concern you know what if other states follow suit? What happens now? But if you take a step back; you realize that this is also just one of those Hail Mary long shots. Voters are running out of patients. Like courts they want to see evidence. This looks like pure partisan wrangling in a situation where there were no election - not no, but very few election regularities.

I'm in a state where Joe Biden won by almost 150,000 votes. And also the board had certified results and similar circumstances in the primaries in 2016. This was just a situation where these type of mistakes are common. But if you take a step back and look at, this was a situation in which the board was still unlikely to change the outcome of the election. It would have went to a state board of canvassers. If they would have - if they would have deadlocked because they're also a partisan board, the Michigan governor has the power to replace members of these boards.

And so even then this was a situation where it was a long shot and it wouldn't have had any outcome - any affect on the outcome of the election.

SCIUTTO: Well it's good to hear. It's important for people to hear that there were checks on this, checks that would follow. I wonder though, big picture; does this expose a danger in the system here? I think a lot of folks at home might not know that you have to certify results. I mean the results are the results but you have to folks certify it. Does that provide a window - I mean is there a reform here that needs to happen to prevent partisan judgments that deny the facts of an election?

TOLSON: Well we will always be in a situation where partisanship could erode public confidence; when we have the foxes guarding the hen house, right. So as long as you partisan election officials then there's always this risk that they'll try to manipulate the outcome of the election.

Well let's be clear; certification is a safeguard, right. So during the certification process the state authorities are verifying that voters are who they say they are and that the votes are tallied properly. It's an additional check in our system. Usually it works. And I would even have to say it worked this time. The members of the board who tried to block the certifications they eventually backed down.

And so I would say, Jim, in this election cycle 150 million people voted but let's not lose sight of the fact that there are always changes that need to be made because it is problematic when we have partisans who make voting more difficult. And who make counting the votes more difficult.

And so, yes historic turnout, historic participating but yes we do need to make some changes.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean and listen it's good to hear for folks at home because there have been challenges and efforts here. But the big picture the system seems to have worked and that's something -

(CROSSTALK)

TOLSON: And held (ph).

SCIUTTO: Yes. Something to help us sleep at night, we need that. Franita - Franita Tolson, thanks, very much.

TOLSON: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well Chris Krebs is now just the latest Trump administration official to be fired by Tweet after taking the simple step of fact checking the president's false voter fraud claims. Krebs who ran the cyber arm of the Department of Homeland Security, whose job it is to monitor this election Tweeted after his firing, "Honor to serve, we did it right. Defend today, secure tomorrow. #protect2020."

HARLOW: And that's exactly what he did exceedingly well by all accounts. Let's bring in Elizabeth Neumann, former assistant secretary of Homeland Security under President Trump. Also you worked closely with him at DHS. You know we - republican former Bush administration head of Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff, said that this is nothing more than an example of the president's vindictiveness.

That may be true put there are real consequences for the way that our allies and adversaries view the country. What does it mean on the national security front?

ELIZABETH NEUMANN, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Look, Chris Krebs is a hero. He's always been a hero in my book. I had the pleasure of working with him for three and a half years before I left the department. He started two weeks after I did. And many of us walked that journey in 2017 realizing the president is not learning how to do his job. The president is not going to change. And I - as I was reflecting last night I think Krebs was the first person that called it and said you know all of us are going to have a moment where we're going to have to decide whether we do the right thing or we risk getting fired.

And I had several of those moments. He had - he had a lot more of them and a lot more of a public stage. But he chose to do the right thing and he never waivered in that. It was never a question for him. He is absolutely passionate about serving this country, about protecting the election from foreign interference.

[09:10:00]

The irony is that he was successful in the mission he started out with, right? Like the election was secure. Russia, Iran, China, they tried. They failed. They did not tamper with the election. They did not undermine our confidence in the election through their actions, but the president and his actions are undermining the legitimacy of the election. So as the men and women of CISA, the intelligence community, the military, it's a whole host of people that went to fight this fight keeping our election safe. They succeeded in my mind, and it's only the president that has caused the damage that we're now all living with. And hopefully in 64 days the Biden administration can begin to repair that.

SCIUTTO: You know, so much of this is about feeling rather than fact, right, that the president's attacks on this, and the sad fact is a lot of people believe it, right, that they believe these fraud claims. Smart people, right, it seems. At least I've heard from folks who I consider smart but somehow buy the lie of this. I just wonder what is the remedy for that, right, because it does not appear that the president's going to back off? What is the remedy for officials serving in government for the Biden administration to turn that around?

NEUMANN: It's such a good question I think many of us are wrestling with the realization that after the election it wasn't the resounding defeat that we had hoped, and we all feared that anything that appeared close the president would exploit, and that's what we're dealing with today. I think over time the things that I find encouragement on, it's a small percentage of people in our country that are day-in day-out focused on politics. I think once Biden is sworn in most people will go back to their daily lives and will accept that he is the president, and I think that's when the real work starts. We really have to educate people better about how to discern truth. And that's - that is a heavy lift that's going to take many different segments of our society to do well.

HARLOW: What role do you believe Republican leadership and Republican lawmakers in Congress play in this because we heard Richard Burr come out and praise Krebs as a dedicated public servant who did a remarkable job. We just heard Adam Kinzinger, the Republican Congressman, say on CNN earlier this morning there is a loyalty purge going on in the last months in the White House. They're sort of on an island, though. Pretty much silent from Republican leadership on this.

NEUMANN: There were a lot of Republicans that - and Democrats. Krebs did a remarkable job of building a coalition on The Hill. He had to because we were working in the early part of the administration to change the rules, change the law around cybersecurity and establish the Cybersecurity Agency, which they were successful in doing. So from all of that work and from his intentional efforts to keep members of Congress briefed, he has earned their respect, and I've been very pleased to see a number of them. Senator Sasse came out and called it this, you know, he should not have been fired. So there are those that are speaking out. What doesn't seem to be translating, though, is what that means in the context of the overall picture here that the president fired somebody who's debunking his rumors because based on the totality of the facts those rumors are false. And therefore, the president's claims have no merit and Biden has won. So they don't seem to be connecting the dots. They're willing to call out and say that Krebs shouldn't have been fired, that he was a big man, he did his job, but they're not going to that next step and saying the president has lost, Biden has won, the transition should be initiated and we should all go back to our normal lives.

HARLOW: We're grateful for you, Elizabeth, especially this morning on this. Thanks a lot.

NEUMANN: Thanks for having me, Poppy and Jim.

HARLOW: On the medical front still to come, Pfizer this morning announces its vaccine is even more effective than they thought. Now saying it's 95 percent effective. The company is preparing to submit it for approval. What this means for when you could get it ahead. And states across the country are cracking down with tighter restrictions as COVID infections surge for the holidays coming up, will these cases continue to explode?

SCIUTTO: And as President Trump refuses to admit the fact that he lost this election, are some GOP lawmakers privately congratulating President-Elect Biden and V.P. Kamala Harris on their win? Yes, privately.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00]

HARLOW: There is a major development, another one, overnight in the race for a COVID vaccine. Pfizer says this morning their vaccine is actually 95% effective with zero safety concerns.

SCIUTTO: These are huge numbers, I think even beyond what some had hoped for leading into this. Let's bring in CNN'S Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen. Elizabeth, so better than what we initially learned about Pfizer here. What does this mean big picture?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN ANCHOR: You know, what's really exciting about this, actually, is not just the percentage, because they always said over 90% and now they're saying 95%. It's sort of what we thought, you know, approximately, but that it's based on more data, more data is always good.

I don't mean to nerd out here, but it's really exciting the more numbers that you see because that gives you sort of more of a feeling of being sure that these numbers could be right. You know, this is all preliminary, this is all initial, this is all early but the more numbers the better, so let's get to what those numbers say.

So Pfizer says look, we asked and we gave a placebo to approximately 22,000 people and 162 of those 22,000 got sick with COVID-19, nine of them severely.

[09:20:00]

Now to be clear, Pfizer didn't give these people COVID, they didn't stick COVID up their noses, as done in some other trials. Instead, these people just lived their lives and they ran into COVID the way so many people in the world have.

Now, let's look at the vaccine group, also approximately 22,000 getting the actual Pfizer vaccine. Only eight people in that group came down with COVID and only one of them severely. And that's where you get the 95 percent efficacy.

So, that is really exciting and it also looks like it's approximately that effective in elderly people, which is really good to know, because sometimes vaccines don't work as well in elderly people. So, it's good to know that at least this initial data seems to say that.

Now, let's take a look at next steps. So, they're going to apply to the FDA, they said very soon, because not only is effective, but they found there were no major safety problems, things like people felt tired, but nothing bigger than that.

And then once they apply to the FDA and this is really important, again, very nerdy but very important, the FDA has already told it's vaccine advisory committee to hold three days for a meeting, that's December 8, 9 and 10.

That's a big deal, because the FDA can't do anything without consulting with this advisory group. Traditionally it's at the end of the last day of those meetings when they say -- when they give the green light or the red light. So, 8, 9 and 10, remember those days.

SCUITTO: Not nerdy at all. We like data on this show. Poppy and I are nerdier than the next guys.

COHEN: OK.

HARLOW: And wait for December 10, that's the key headline there. Elizabeth, good news for everyone that I see standing in the line around the block by our house waiting for a test right now. The FDA just issued emergency use authorization for the first self-COVID test, not only that you can do at home but that gives you rapid results at home. How does it work? How accurate is it? And how expensive is it and when can we get it?

COHEN: So, the way that works is the same way as if someone else were doing it, except you put the -- the little swab thing up your nose and then you do the test and then you, as you said, you get the results at home yourself.

And so this is exciting, because it is good to be able to get the results at home. I will say, there have -- I'm not talking about this test, but in general there have been concerns about rapid tests and this is a rapid test.

I think one of the hopes is, is that under the Biden Administration that someone will sort of take charge and say, hey, let's look at these tests, which one of the -- which ones are the most accurate.

Maybe it is worth going to getting in your car and standing in line to get a more accurate test. It's unclear which are more accurate than the others on sort of a grand scale. That is one of the things that really has been missing in the Trump Administration. Hopefully it will get fixed in the Biden Administration.

SCIUTTO: Still two months away. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks very much.

COHEN: Thanks

SCIUTTO: Well this morning the nation reporting its deadliest day of the pandemic in six months, more than 1,700 Americans died yesterday. Folks with families.

HARLOW: Nearly every single state, as you see on this map, is having an increase in cases. Many state leaders are tightening their restrictions all over again. Let's go to our Sara Sidner, she joins us this morning in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Good morning Sara. There is a new order that goes into effect today that limits the amount of people that can gather indoors for the next three weeks.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right and as you know there's been a lot of vitriol spread here about these restrictions, both in the very beginning and now. But, this state is experiencing an extremely high number of coronavirus cases and while it can devastate people, devastate families health wise, it also is having a major impact on businesses, the Restaurant Association is actually suing to try to allow people back into restaurants even though today is the day when there is no more indoor dining, according to the new rules.

HARLOW: Sara, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Sara Sidner there. Thank you.

HARLOW: Thank you very much. Adrienne Broaddus is in Illinois with us, another Midwest state seeing a surge in cases and hospitalizations, the governor announcing a new mitigation plan. What is it?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it takes place on Friday Poppy and it's the last step before this state, Illinois, could see mandatory stay-at-home order. So, it means casinos will be closed, it means cultural institutions like popular museums will close and banquet halls. This because of the increase in hospitalizations and deaths across the state of Illinois.

We're outside of Rush Hospital. I want to give you an example. Here at Rush they've transformed a portion of the main lobby, which is adjacent to the emergency department, into an area that will treat low acuity COVID patients. You might remember the hospital did this back in the spring, but yesterday 60 people walked through those doors and were treated in that area.

And this mirrors what the governor says their modeling is showing. For example, not only are COVID deaths up, but Governor Pritzker says COVID hospitalizations and ICU occupancy could be five times higher than the spring wave.

And we just saw Sara Sidner in Michigan, that's a neighboring state that is seeing an increase in cases. We're also seeing a jump in positivity rates. In South Dakota, for example, there more than 50% when it comes to the positivity rate. Iowa also has a high positivity rate, too. Illinois, the positivity rate isn't as high, but for the last week, the positivity rate has hovered above 10%.

Perhaps the best news we've heard all day, and it's still early in the day, that uplifting report from Pfizer about the vaccine and this coronavirus story. Jim and Poppy?

SCIUTO: Those positivity rates in some states just off the charts. I mean, Wyoming 91% of tests in the last week, alarming to see. Adrienne Broaddus, thanks very much. But while the president is fighting the results of an election he lost, President-Elect Biden is gearing up for his fight against this growing pandemic. He's set to meet with front-line workers today. More from the transition team for Biden ahead.

HARLOW: We're also moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. Futures are rather mixed this morning. Pfizer's big vaccine news that it's 95% effective is pushing the DOW and S&P higher. Its critical information as the economy battles the devastating impact of this pandemic and more states impose stricter measures.

Also this morning, big news from Boeing, that stock higher after the FAA gave its approval for the 737 MAX to fly again. That jet, of course, has been grounded for 20 months following those two deadly crashes.