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Trump Fires Official Who Disputed His Baseless Election Fraud Claims; U.S. Records Deadliest Day Of Pandemic In Six Months; Midwest Struggling With Major Surge In Cases And Deaths. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired November 18, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:09]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you so much for joining us.

With just over two months left in the White House, there's now enough evidence to say sadly either you're watching the president of the United States try to steal an election and do it in broad daylight, or he's flailing about trying his best to act like he is.

The latest example is the president's firing of a senior Homeland Security official. The person responsible for election security who declared that the election -- this election, was the most secure in U.S. history. The president fired him via Twitter saying that Chris Krebs was fired not -- for not backing his baseless claims of quote/unquote "massive improprieties and fraud." Literally he's firing someone because he was telling the truth.

On the very same day in Michigan, Republican members of the election board in Michigan's largest county tried and almost succeeded in blocking the county from certifying Detroit's election results, which showed President-elect Joe Biden with a large victory. It was a debacle not based in reality.

Hours later though the county reversed course and certified the votes. That about-face came after the board heard this from voters who weren't going to stand for it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NED STAEBLER, BUSINESS OWNER: The law isn't on your side. History won't be on your side. Your conscience will not be on your side.

REV. WENDEL ANTHONY, MEMBER, NAACP NATIONAL BOARD OF DIRECTORS: Shame on you! Shame on you for leading to this level of corruption! You have disavowed your right to even sit in the seats that you occupy.

SANDA SCOTT, DETROIT RESIDENT: I have worked every election day since 1996. The claims of fraud are baseless.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

We have reporters covering both of these important angles for us this hour. Alex Marquardt following the firing of Chris Krebs. Let's start with Kristen Holmes, who is covering what happened in Michigan and for a lot of folks, Kristen, that really is the question. Like what actually happened here? How would you describe what went down in Wayne County overnight?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, the best description as a stunning political power play by Republicans here. Wayne County, home of Detroit, the biggest county in Michigan, deadlocked over the vote of whether or not to certify the results in the election. Republicans saying, they didn't want it certified because there were discrepancies in some of the precinct numbers when they did their post-election review.

What exactly does that mean? It means that there were different numbers in the poll log of people signing in than number of votes cast. This difference was a handful of votes. And we called election experts to see what would account for this. They said this is totally normal in an election to have this kind of margin. In fact, there was a much larger margin back in 2016 and in the primary in 2020 and there was no problem certifying the election in those results.

So, something to keep in mind there. But they said it could be anything. It could be someone signing in but having to leave early. It could be a mangled envelope of a ballot.

But despite this, we know President Trump was locked into it, even though they certified - they ended up certifying after you played that sound there. So much outrage all across Detroit, all across Michigan really and the country. They certified it but President Trump still locked down on it, said that these officials who had voted not to certify the results, that they were -- he was proud of them and praising them for their courage. Kate?

BOLDUAN: You also have been reporting, Kristen, on the head of the GSA, who is the person that is now standing in the way of President- elect Biden's transition team accessing government resources.

HOLMES: Yes, that's right, Kate. I mean, we wanted to get a little bit behind the scenes here, what was going into her decision making. And we heard from colleagues, those who worked close to her, people who had talked to her recently, and a lot of it was based on the fact that she believes that she is following precedent. That there isn't a lot to go off of here, say vague guideline, the Transition Act.

The Presidential Transition Act happened in the 1960s and the only time that there's been any sort of precedent was in 2000, when Gore and Bush had a lawsuit, and no one conceded there. So, Emily Murphy, the Trump political appointee, now experts say this is a completely different situation. That Biden has already reached the electoral threshold to become president and that she's just not signing off on this.

But I do want to note one thing here, we did hear from numerous people who said that she was not a Trump loyalist. So, something we're keeping an eye on there, something a lot of people were wondering. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Yes, absolutely. Great reporting, Kristen.

Alex, let's talk about Chris Krebs. What are you hearing today about his firing?

Well, for starters Kate, we're hearing a widespread criticism. I mean he was not just beloved really by those who worked at his own agency, which is known as CISA, it's a cyber arm of DHS, but he was widely respected across the political spectrum by Democrats and Republicans. We've heard Republicans coming out against the president's decision. He was respected by cybersecurity experts both here and abroad.

We have not heard from Chris Krebs himself. He was due to speak at in a conference earlier today, but he pulled out after he was fired by tweet last night.

[11:05:04]

We have a little bit of insight, perhaps, into what he's thinking. Overnight, he tweeted about defending Democracy. And then he retweeted Mark Hamill -- yes, that Mark Hamill from "Star Wars," who writes that Krebs was terminated for refusing to lie and he calls Trump the liar in chief. So, not Krebs' own words but he's not holding back at pushing that out.

Kate, in the days that have followed the election, Krebs has gotten -- had gotten increasingly more and more aggressive about pushing back, rejecting, rebuking these baseless claims, these conspiracies, these lies that were being pushed by the president, by his supporters, by his allies about votes being changed, about fraudulent votes, fraudulent and defective voting systems.

The error that Krebs appears to have made, the biggest one in Trump's eyes, was putting out that statement that you mentioned along with a whole host of election officials saying that this election was the most secure in American history.

And that statement went on to read that, "There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised."

Kate, of course, that directly contradicts the president, who is deeply trying to prove otherwise. And we did hear from the White House press secretary earlier today, Kayleigh McEnany, who said of that statement, and of Krebs, that it is not accurate, and it seems like a partisan attempt to just hit back at the president. Kate?

BOLDUAN: The only kind of bingo card not used is disgruntled employee on that one. Great to see you, Alex. Thank you so much. Kristen, great reporting. Thanks, guys.

Joining me right now, Graham Brookie. He's a former top cybersecurity aid for the Obama administration, also director of the Atlantic Council Digital forensic lab. And CNN contributor Garrett Graff. He's here. He has written extensively as well know about the U.S. National Security agencies. Garrett, let me start with you. You called this the most upsetting moment for Democracy since the president's refusal to accept the election result. Why, Garrett?

GARRETT GRAFF, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Two things really are troubling about the firing of Chris Krebs. One is you see the president actually shutting down the U.S. government's own attempts to communicate clearly and accurately about the legitimacy of our election and our Democracy. The second thing is that Donald Trump isn't trying to hide that fact.

That he in his tweet last night, basically, was able to come up with no cover story other than I don't like what Chris Krebs is saying about the things that I am saying. And in fact, it is notable that within minutes of Trump's tweet last night, Twitter had slapped a warning label on the president's tweet saying that his claims of election fraud were wrong.

BOLDUAN: And, Graham, you look at this stuff every day. You know what this agency is tasked with doing. How damaging is it to have a guy like Chris Krebs out for very basically telling the truth?

GRAHAM BROOKIE, MEMBER OF WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL UNDER OBAMA: Well, that's a great question, and when you take action against disinformation, that action will be the subject and the target of disinformation itself. And that's what exactly what we are seeing here.

Chris Krebs, by all accounts, is honest, fair and has been a great manager. When you take an action against Chris Krebs for doing his job, then that's going to have downstream effects at the agency that he has led. I'm worried about the availability for CISA to continue to do their jobs, although they're committed public servants who will continue to do their jobs.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And Garrett, he not only is firing someone for no reason other than this civil servant wouldn't go along with his conspiracy theories, if not believe his conspiracy theories. I mean when you look at it's kind of broadly, he's kind of Saturday night massacring his administration Monday through Friday at this point in the last two months of his administration. Beyond Krebs, what are the bigger implications of this move?

GRAFF: Well, so the big thing is you know most Americans probably haven't heard of CISA at all. It's two years old this week as an agency. It has two main responsibilities, one on the cybersecurity side, and the other on the infrastructure security side. So, this is an agency that was actually out there on the frontlines not just on disinformation and election security but also securing the health care system against ransomware and notably playing a role in the security and defense of the COVID-19 vaccine.

So, you're seeing the president ax the head, and after Krebs he also forced out the deputy director last night. So, the leadership of this entire agency that has a key role in defending and protecting the COVID vaccine and our health care system, is now leaderless and rudderless for the final 64 days of this administration.

[11:10:05]

BOLDUAN: Yes. And Graham, Krebs fired, a deputy forced to resign. You talked about your concern for the agency, kind of how they do their job now. Does this impact at all the 2020 election that is now wrapped despite the president's continued shouting on his Twitter feed?

BROOKIE: Well, the key point there is that if you fire the guy whose job is to protect elections, then it's pretty clear what your priority is. Donald Trump removing one of the last federal safeguards of election security can only be considered as a move against elections themselves, and by extension Democracy.

The ability for that to have an impact now, the disinformation is the predicate for a number of legal cases that we're seeing that are frankly spurious and the letter that stands from election officials themselves saying this has been the most safe, secure election in history, even though it has been an unprecedented election because of the literal pandemic we're still in the middle of. Their ability to still continue to protect elections remains solid.

BOLDUAN: And still, there are about 60-plus days to go. So, let's see.

Graham, thanks. It's good to see you.

Garrett, thank you so much, I really appreciate it.

So, coming up for us, we're going to show you the scene here at one COVID testing site is Illinois today. The governor there warning that the Midwest is now the epicenter of the coronavirus surge. The very latest on that coming up.

Plus, we're watching Wisconsin as the Trump campaign faces a deadline this afternoon. If it wants a recount of the ballots there. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:16:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): The Midwest is now the epicenter of the biggest COVID-19 surge to date.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: That's Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker sounding the alarm on a day when the U.S. reported more than 1,700 Americans lost their lives to coronavirus. Yesterday marking this country's deadliest day of the pandemic in six months. Positivity rates nationwide, they're scary high getting to this point. Look at Wyoming, 91 percent. South Dakota, 56 percent positivity rate.

And right now, nearly 77,000 Americans are sick enough with COVID that they need hospital care. This isn't just a cough. Things are not good. But there is some good news on the horizon.

Pharmaceutical giant Pfizer is reporting that its vaccine is 95 percent effective with no serious safety concerns. Let's get more details on the state of the pandemic right now from the hotspot, the Midwest.

CNN's Sara Sidner in is in Michigan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): State and local leaders across the United States are grappling with the relentless spread of coronavirus. The country reporting another 161,000 new coronavirus cases Tuesday and reporting the highest day of deaths since May.

GOV. LARRY HOGAN (R-MD): We are in a war right now. And the virus is winning.

SIDNER (voice-over): More than a dozen states are implementing new mitigation efforts and mask mandates over the past week. And some cities and states have taken more drastic measures, such as issuing stay-at-home advisories or restricting non-essential businesses, like restaurants and gyms, including Michigan, where a three-week pause on reopening goes into effect today. This month, the state has seen its worst number since the start of the pandemic.

And in Washington, Governor Jay Inslee reported its state saw more than 2,600 new cases Tuesday, the highest since the pandemic began. Earlier, Inslee closing indoor dining services and limiting store capacity to 25 percent in response to the rising spread.

GOV. JAY INSLEE (D-WA): It is a scientific reality that if things do not change, this number will continue to skyrocket.

SIDNER (voice-over): In Montana, Governor Steve Bullock announced a statewide mask mandate. And in St. Louis, it is closing restaurants and bars to in-person dining and encouraging people to only leave home for essentials.

In Minnesota, cases are on the rise and local news reports say new measures are expected to be announced by Governor Tim Walsh today.

In Kentucky, the Kentucky governor also expected to announce new measures today, according to local reports. This comes after the state saw 33 people lose their lives to the virus, the highest number of deaths in a single day in that state.

DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: At this point, we've got a few months before the vaccines come to the rescue. We want to save as many lives as we can in that interval. And that's really up to all of us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER (on camera): It is all about saving lives back here in Michigan to give you some idea how bad things are here. The positivity rate that they were hoping for, that it can be sort of back to normal as 3 percent, it is now at more than 13 percent in this state. And that is what the governor and health officials are trying to bring down. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Sarah, thank you so much.

Joining me right now is Dr. Tom Inglesby. He's the director of the Center for Health Security at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Good to see you again, doctor. Thank you for being here.

Illinois' Governor Pritzker, he's not holding back. You heard all of the folks speaking in the piece that Sara wonderfully put together for us. The Midwest is under siege right now by the virus. Is this more concerning than -- would you say you're more concerned about what you're seeing now than you were kind of with the initial spike in the spring, simply because of where and how widespread this explosion is happening?

[11:20:04]

DR. TOM INGLESBY, DIRECTOR, JOHNS HOPKINS CENTER FOR HEALTH SECURITY: Yes, I am the most concerned I have been since this pandemic started. I think in the beginning of the pandemic, we had extraordinary burden on some places in the country but now we are seeing it really across the country, concentrated in the Midwest and mountain west.

If you look at the U.S. states and if the U.S. states were countries, we'd have the 10 countries in the world with the most rapid spread. So, this is really not just one place or two places. This is really, states across the country you're having the most rapid rise they've seen since the start of this.

BOLDUAN: When you see these trends, the numbers of daily deaths up almost like 26 percent in the last two weeks, six states reporting their highest single day death counts just yesterday. States are starting to tighten up again. Sara was laying that out. Ohio's governor putting in place a three-week curfew statewide. Do you think states are moving fast enough?

INGLESBY: They're beginning to. I think if you look back a few weeks ago, many states were still kind of in their phase three mostly open state. Mostly open phase of their response. But they're now beginning to move. And I think governors are now absolutely the key. Governors working together to get a kind of common approach. That's what the country needs right now.

We're not hearing a lot from national public health leaders or political leaders, but governors are beginning to step up if they can work together and set a kind of new common path. That's what's going to help us get through this terrible period.

BOLDUAN: And, quite frankly, we're not hearing anything really from the president of the United States about it. He's focused more on trying to battle out the election still. But the White House press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, she was asked earlier today about the guidance and restrictions that governors are putting in place ahead of Thanksgiving. Let me play this for everybody.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS HOST: What do you think of these suggestions and guidelines some of the governors have given in advance of this, because it is a super-contagious disease?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Yes, I think a lot of the guidelines you're seeing are Orwellian but it's Orwellian in a place like Oregon to say if you gather in numbers more than six, we might come to your house and arrest you and you get 30 days of jail time. That's not the American way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: First off, that's not what the governor of Oregon has said or is threatening at all. It's more like a - would be like a citation for loud music at a party or something like that is how she described it. But the fact that the White House is seeing the numbers and still calling moves being taken by the governors Orwellian, what's your reaction to that?

INGLESBY: I think it's tragic. It's hard to fathom how the national leaders are not weighing in on what people should be doing to try to avoid the fate that's coming. I think it's really clear that when people get together in numbers, that's where the virus spreads.

And so, telling people what they can do to protect themselves over the holidays, that's kind of the basic responsibility of government. And if you're not giving people good information or confusing people, then they're going to make bad choices. They may not be informed to make good choices, and that's not what we need to do right now. We need to all be saying the same things. Governors and national leaders should be telling people really not to gather over the holidays.

When you're with someone who you haven't been with for a while, you just don't know whether they're infected. Right now, there's so much infection in the country. We just have to presume people who are not usually with us in our households could be infected until we get a better handle on this pandemic and are able to decrease transmission.

BOLDUAN: Well, speaking with consistency throughout this, you have been definitely been doing that. Doctor, thanks for coming on.

INGLESBY: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Still ahead for us, Georgia poised to finish its hand recount audit today and affirm Joe Biden's historic win there as the state's top election official stands by his allegation that Senator Lindsey Graham suggested that he should throw out legal votes. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:28:58]

BOLDUAN: Just into CNN, a Trump campaign official now says that the campaign will be seeking a partial recount in Wisconsin, the battleground state of Wisconsin, but it will involve just two counties in Democratic strongholds in the state. So much more to come there. That just came in.

But also, in Georgia, a hand audit of the vote count there was ordered and expected to be done tonight. This morning, another Georgia election official is speaking out about the pressure coming from Trump and his allies, like Senator Lindsey Graham, to potentially throw out legal ballots, what they viewed as pressure to do so. Listen here to how this election official described what he heard on that phone call with Senator Lindsey Graham and Georgia's Republican secretary of state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GABRIEL STERLING, GEORGIA ELECTION IMPLEMENTATION MANAGER: It was a question of is there power within the law if you see an abnormality of a very high acceptance rate compared to what there probably ought to be versus what you have an inspection of those ballots, of those signatures. That was a question that was asked. So that probably did raise the hairs in the back of the secretary's neck, and I understand that. And the senator is probably just trying to figure out what do I do to help defend the president, whom I support?

(END VIDEO CLIP)