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Interview with Livonia, Michigan City Clerk Susan Nash; GSA Administrator Emily Murphy Follows 2000 Precedent; Michigan Begins Three-Week Pause. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 18, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST, NEWSROOM: Chris Krebs, gone in a tweet, apparently for doing his job and telling the truth. He had recently released a statement saying the U.S. election was safe and secure. Quote, "No evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes or was in any way compromised."

That flies in the face of the president's false claim that the election was rigged and dominated by widespread voter fraud that actually was not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): Chris Krebs said the election was secure. That's his job to say that. His job is to make sure that they're defending the elections, and of course that is counter to what the president is trying to say. So I think that all feeds into why he's out there. And you know, there's like a loyalty purge going on in the last month in the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Now in Michigan, a couple Republican election officials decided they were going to try to block the outcome there. They refused at first to certify the vote in Wayne County, the Detroit area. Why Wayne County? Well, it went heavily for Joe Biden. Wayne County gave Joe Biden Michigan, and facing considerable public pressure to let the voters be heard, for their votes to count, those election officials ultimately relented.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D), MICHIGAN: Well, the law is clear and the vote was overwhelming. Joe Biden won Michigan by 14 times the number of votes that Donald Trump won Michigan in 2016. We had a full, free, fair and secure election. The will of the people will stand.

And I think you know, we've got to go into this with, of course, bracing ourselves for more shenanigans. But at the end of the day, the will of the people will be respected and Joe Biden won Michigan.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: Now, there's also news today on the Trump strategy in Wisconsin. The Trump campaign, saying that it will pay for a recount in two heavily Democratic counties there. We're going to have more on that, ahead.

First, let's dig into Michigan. Republicans in Wayne County, they did not want to certify these results in the election. They did end up flip-flopping on that last night. One of the local officials who watched this all play out in horror was city clerk Susan Nash. She called into that Wayne County Elections Board meeting last night with a passionate message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN NASH, CITY CLERK IN WAYNE COUNTY: I am so furious right now that you are not calling this election. The citizens of Wayne County deserve better than this. The clerks of Wayne County deserve better than this. The staff, the teams that worked --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your time has expired.

NASH: -- deserve better. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I'm joined now by City Clerk for Livonia, Michigan Susan Nash. Hey, Susan, thanks for being with us today. What happened last night?

NASH: It was unprecedented. It -- couldn't believe it. First of all, the media (ph) --

KEILAR: OK, I think, unfortunately, Susan, I'm having a hard time with your connection right now. Let me see if I can --

NASH: Pardon (ph)?

KEILAR: -- can you tell us what happened last night?

NASH: I can tell you that they weren't going to certify. They were saying that the votes, that there were some discrepancies -- and there were, and most of them were human error, nothing that would have changed any election, any results anywhere. And it's not something that is new, it's something that has happened before.

So to all of a sudden, yesterday, to say we're not going to certify this election? It was just such a slap in the face. And as a clerk -- and when I say a clerk, I mean my whole team -- we worked since January 1st for Election Day. We had a presidential primary in March, we had the August primary and then the Election Day in November. And in the midst of all this, we also had COVID. So we have been working all year for this, and so have every other clerk's office.

And to have the Wayne County Board of Canvassers say, no, we're not going to certify? Was just -- it was awful. The voters deserve better than that. Their voice needs to be heard. And as a clerk, that's my responsibility. How they vote is their responsibility, but my responsibility is to the voter, to make sure their vote gets heard. So I spoke up.

KEILAR: What do you do in the future? Look, a lot of people spoke up, the Republican members decided that they were going to relent. But what do you do when you -- I mean, you have board members who can hold this up, who can stop this from proceeding. It's like an honor system, and there's a lot of voters who look at that and you know, they're frustrated by that, if people are not going to be honorable in executing their duties. They can gum up all the works.

NASH: They can't be any more frustrated than I was last night as a clerk. And they deserve it. They deserve to have their votes, their voices heard. We did everything we could for them, for the voters to be able to be heard.

[14:05:10]

And they deserve to have -- whatever the outcome is, it doesn't matter to me. My responsibility is to the 81,000 registered voters in the city of Livonia. And I take my oath of office seriously, and it was very upsetting to me last night, to have this decision to go forward. I don't know what -- there has to be some reform in some way, when you have a board that is 2-2, you could easily have a split then.

KEILAR: What would that look like? I mean, what would a reform look like that could stop --

NASH: I don't --

KEILAR: -- people from certifying an election that is legitimate?

NASH: I don't know, I don't know. They're going to have to go through the legislators, maybe work with the secretary of state, Jocelyn Benson, and she can reach out to the clerks. In Michigan, we are a -- local clerks run elections and we work with the county clerks. So between the secretary of state, the county clerk and the local clerks, maybe we can come up with something.

And it's the county clerk that runs the canvass, and so they've worked the last two weeks, tirelessly, 12, 14, 15-hour days, trying to get this ready to be certified yesterday.

KEILAR: I'm glad you brought up your team, Susan, because your team in Livonia is very emblematic of teams all across the country who are kind of people behind the scenes, carrying out elections. We've gotten to know much more about them, this election, than we have in any other previous one. Some of their efforts have been maligned. You know, writ large, we've seen people just doing really good work, getting elections going when you have a record number of mail-in ballots in the middle of a pandemic.

But I just wonder how are -- you know, how are you all holding up?

NASH: We were a little tired. Unfortunately, I had to go into quarantine last week, a member of my family did test positive. I tested negative, but I had to be in quarantine -- I'm still in it. So -- which has kind of been difficult, to be two weeks after an election, for a clerk to be in quarantine. But I trust in everybody that's part of the team back at City Hall, that they're going to make sure everything's done correctly.

And they have worked so hard to do this. We have gone to hospitals to deliver ballots, we have gone to nursing homes, we've gone to homes of COVID patients to make sure they had ballots. We have walked ballots out and done curbside for an elderly or handicapped resident that might have a difficult time. We've made sure they've gotten registered, we've made sure they've gotten ballots.

And that's just normal, everyday occurrence in a clerk's office. It's nothing different in Livonia, we're nothing different, nothing special than any other of the 1,500 jurisdiction clerks in the state of Michigan --

KEILAR: I think you're special --

NASH: -- and I'm proud to be one.

KEILAR: -- I think you're all special, Susan. Thank you so much for joining us, we hope that your family is doing well as well, as you join us from quarantine. Thank you, Susan Nash.

NASH: We are, we're hanging in. Thank you.

KEILAR: All right, keep hanging in there.

And Election Day, you know, it was more than two weeks ago now, but the Trump administration is still refusing to say that Joe Biden is president-elect. They're refusing to certify this, and the money that Biden needs for his White House transition is being held up because of that.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is joining me now. And you know, Kristen, GSA Administrator Emily Murphy is in charge of this. It's her job to certify the results. A lot of people had probably never heard of her, but it's her job to do this and get funds to Biden's transition team. You have some new reporting about the pressure on her behind the scenes -- tell us.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. Emily Murphy is a Trump political appointee, we want to point that out. Now, this is the General Services Administration, which has to sign off on the election for several things to happen. But most importantly, as you've said, the money to Biden's team as well as just the formal transition, period.

Now, we have talked to several people who have spoken to Murphy recently, who say that she is definitely struggling with this, that she has received death threats from both Democrats and Republicans, but that she believes that she is following precedent. So what exactly is that precedent?

Well, the only time since GSA took over this role that there has been a candidate who refused to concede was in 2000, when Al Gore and George Bush were waiting for that recount in Florida.

And it should be noted that even though she believes she is following this precedent set in 2000, we have spoken to multiple transition experts as well as we've heard from the GSA administrator who was in the Clinton administration who actually ascertained George Bush to be the winner, who all say that this is a completely different scenario here. And they say that Biden has reached the electoral threshold, actually crossed it, to be the president.

So the big question now is, what exactly is going to put Murphy over the tipping point -- we've seen court case after court case get thrown out -- to (ph) make (ph) her make this final decision.

[14:10:04]

KEILAR: So I also know you're tracking another story, and this has to do what the Trump administration is telling HHS staffers behind the scenes.

HOLMES: That's right, Brianna. And everything that we've talked about is how dangerous a shortened transition could be to the pandemic response, and now we're learning that some HHS staffers were instructed that if they were contacted by Biden's team, they are not to have any communication. And then they are to report that communication up to a superior. Again, during a pandemic at a time in which there are millions of people's lives at risk.

Now, it's not immediately clear how many people got this guidance, but we did reach out to HHS, who said that we should reach out to the General Services Administration, which, as we just talked about, has not made their decision yet and has not gotten back to us on this.

KEILAR: Kristen, thank you so much. It's such important reporting and we are so glad you brought it to us.

As the Trump administration ignores reality, coronavirus is raging. Governors are stepping in to fill the void. We're going to check in on Michigan, where the governor has just announced a three-week lockdown.

Plus, Pfizer announces its vaccine is 95 percent effective. We'll have details on how quickly it will be in the hands of the public.

And the two Senate runoffs, heating up in Georgia. More than $125 million have already been spent -- control of Congress hangs in the balance here. You are watching CNN's live special coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:49]

KEILAR: On the deadliest day of this pandemic since May, we are getting some good news on the vaccine front. Pfizer, today, releasing promising trial results and saying they are just days away from filing for emergency use authorization. This vaccine is not going to come soon enough for thousands upon thousands of Americans who will die before a first dose can even be administered. We've been averaging 1,100 deaths a day for the last week, and the sea

of orang on this map shows the more than 40 states that are seeing a rising trend in new infections -- this means they are seeing more cases in the past week than the week before.

The country also hit a new high for hospitalizations for a third straight day. There are nearly 77,000 people who are hospitalized right now, battling COVID. This out-of-control spread of coronavirus is forcing governors to step in and take matters into their own hands. They are rising to the challenge, they're issuing tougher restrictions, they're issuing new crackdowns.

CNN's Sara Sidner is in Grand Rapids, Michigan where, Sara, the governor just announced a three-week pause. Tell us what that means and how Michiganders are responding. Because restrictions there -- as you are well aware -- have not always been well received.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, yes. The governor here, Governor Whitmer, today is the first day of what she has dubbed the three-week pause. And really, what that tells you is that they have to go back to some of those restrictions that had happened very much earlier in the year, that caused a lot of vitriol. You know, she even had an alleged kidnap plot set against her, in part because those allegedly involved in that plot felt that these restrictions were tyrannical.

And I have seen, in some parts of town on signs, you know, people calling her a tyrant. But I have also seen huge billboards that say thank you to the governor for keeping Michigan safe.

let's look at the numbers, because the numbers tell you the story of how bad things are here right now. If you look at coronavirus cases in Michigan and what has happened, look at how they have zoomed up, so high, higher than they have seen even before.

And this is really disturbing, in part because not only are more people getting it, their positivity rate is at more than 13 percent over a seven-day period. They want that rate to be at three percent, so look at that gap there, we're talking more than a 10 percent gap of people testing positive for coronavirus when they go to get that test.

And here's the real deal, the hospitalizations are also up. And when you have hospitalizations up, you are also going to see those death numbers up. Look at the hospitalizations compared to when this virus was first really detected and had taken hold in the United States to now. You are seeing that U-shaped curve, that is not what you want to see. And that is what the governor is trying to deal with. She's trying to bring those numbers down along with the health officials here.

How are Michiganders responding? Look, there's a lot of different feelings here, right? You've got those who are terrified of this virus, who know that it can be deadly -- not just to the elderly, but to others as well -- who are following all the rules.

You also have businesses who are really, really struggling. And one of those businesses is the restaurant industry, which has been told that you can no longer have indoor dining. And they're pushing back, saying, look, we're taking all these precautions, we have to do this in order to stay solvent. And some of them are saying, look, we -- the Restaurant Association is saying, look, we're suing the state because we believe we can do this safely.

There are lots of other places that are closed, like high schools and colleges, they're going to online learning again. And there's just a lot of frustration. But there is fear here that if they don't get this under control, they are going to see many, many more deaths before the end of all this -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Sara Sidner, thank you so much, live for us from Michigan.

I want to get now to the specifics on Pfizer's vaccine candidate, the company announcing via a news release that its vaccine is 95 percent effective across all ages, races and ethnicities with no serious safety concerns. Of the 170 trial participants who came down with COVID, 10 got severely sick. And of those, only one was taking the vaccine. The others, the nine others were taking the placebo.

[14:20:08]

Pfizer says it could file for emergency use authorization within days. Joining me now is family medicine Dr. Adrian Burrowes who recovered from coronavirus after getting sick in June. And, Doctor, we're certainly glad that you are doing well. What stood out to you --

ADRIAN BURROWES, FAMILY MEDICINE DOCTOR: Thank you.

KEILAR: -- in these results? And I also want to put the caveat on these results, this isn't the -- you know, this isn't the raw data. This is a press release. But from what you can see, what do you think?

BURROWES: So based on what Pfizer has released, it looks very, very promising. And one of the things that I was looking to see is if they had tested it in elderly patients. You know, elderly patients is less than one percent of the U.S. population, but 40 percent of coronavirus deaths. So -- and it seems that, at least based on what they sent out, that they have tested that population and they did fairly well.

KEILAR: And this vaccine actually uses some new technology. So far, there have been no major safety issues with it, but what about long term? Do you have any concerns about what we could see over time as we sometimes do with new medicines?

BURROWES: Sure. So for your viewers, this particular vaccine, as well as the one that Moderna is working on, are using a different type of the DNA, of the virus. It's actually called messenger RNA, and there are no current vaccines that use messenger RNA.

And so it'll be a little bit different. It's definitely a new product, but one thing I will tell Americans that are watching -- and people around the world that may be watching -- is that the FDA is going to definitely vet these vaccines to make sure that they're safe for the public. KEILAR: I want you to listen to Rick Bright, who is the pandemic --

he's a pandemic adviser to President-elect Biden. And Bright of course was ousted from the Trump administration as vaccine chief, and then he resigned citing the administration's disregard for scientific expertise.

He says President Trump is hindering the nation's recovery by refusing to give access to key information to Biden's team. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK BRIGHT, MEMBER, BIDEN'S COVID-19 ADVISORY BOARD: We haven't had any official contact between the transition team coming in and the current administration. It is really setting us back. We don't want to have to step back, rewrite a plan, fix the communication gap or do anything. We want to keep running as quickly and efficiently as possible to make sure Americans can get the vaccines as they become available.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Do you have worries that the incoming administration is being handicapped, and therefore the country is being handicapped in being able to get this vaccine out in the way they need to?

BURROWES: I do. You know, I think that our -- the leaders, the current administration needs to stop treating this as a political issue. It's not a political issue, it's a public health issue. And as a provider, we've got to provide patient care to an elderly population, as well as someone who has had COVID, we need to have as much information available to as many people as possible so that we can do what we can to stem this pandemic.

We're about to witness probably the greatest rise in coronavirus cases from this point going forward, and so we need to make sure we have all hands on deck to combat that.

KEILAR: No, it's essential. Dr. Burrowes, thank you, it's always great to talk to you.

BURROWES: Thank you very much.

KEILAR: Up next, Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley, testing positive for coronavirus, one day after speaking on the Senate floor without a mask.

Plus, President-elect Joe Biden is narrowing his list for HHS secretary. It's a key role in the fight against the coronavirus.

[14:23:47]

We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: You know, yesterday, we talked about how Senator Cruz called his Democratic colleague Sherrod Brown a, quote, "complete ass" on Twitter for asking Republican Senator Dan Sullivan of Alaska to wear a mask on the Senate floor.

This partisan kerfuffle over mask use in the windowless Senate chamber is taking on a new meaning now that Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley, who was on the floor around the same time, announced on Twitter that he has tested positive for coronavirus. Grassley is 87, and that puts him in a vulnerable category.

He spoke for minutes about the president's Federal Reserve Board nominee while not wearing a mask. He tweeted later, "Feeling good and will keep up my work for the people of Iowa from home. I appreciate everyone's well wishes and prayers, and look forward to resuming my normal schedule soon."

Thank God the senator from Iowa is feeling good, but his infection is raising new questions about the safety in the Senate, and not just for the safety of the senators. On Monday, Alaska Republican Dan Sullivan -- as we mentioned -- was presiding over the chamber, and that is when Sherrod Brown opened his remarks by asking Sullivan to put on his mask.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DAN SULLIVAN (R-AK): Senator from Ohio?

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D-OH): I'd start by asking the presiding officer to please wear a mask as he speaks when people below him are -- I can't tell you what to do, but I know that the behavior is --

SULLIVAN: I don't wear a mask when I'm speaking, like most senators.

BROWN: Well, most senators --

SULLIVAN: So I'll put it back on (ph), but I don't need your instruction from --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I know you don't need my instruction, but there clearly isn't much interest in this body in public health.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:30:03]

KEILAR: Now, Republican Senator Ted Cruz, this is what he tweeted here, he said it was "idiotic."