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Death Toll Climbs as Hospitalizations Hit Record High Across the U.S.; 12 Million Americans Could Lose Unemployment Day After Christmas; New Poll Shows 70 Percent GOP Voters Think Biden Won Due to Voter Fraud. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired November 19, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

DR. NATHAN HATTON, PULMONARY SPECIALIST, UNIVERSITY OF UTAH HOSPITAL: As a health care provider, we are on 250 days of having a COVID patient in our ICU right now. You know, and so every day you walk into work, someone is super sick, someone is potentially dying that day, having those family meetings. And then even as I was driving home last night I drove by one of our parks and there is ongoing, you know, practices for some sporting events. And then I'm at the park last night and there is a group of, you know, 15 people not wearing masks.

That is challenging because of sort of these two different worlds that we -- that I'm living in where I come to work and it's all COVID and then I go sort of home or go for a jog at the park and it's like, oh, we're just normal, normal. And that is really a challenge.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Dr. Simonson, do the facts of death and illness and hospitalization pierce that bubble? Because the sad fact is today, we have large portions of this country still living in a bubble, where they don't believe -- we've heard this account from doctors, they simply don't believe still to this day that COVID is real. Do you find when people are finally confronted with the facts of it in the form of sick or dying relatives that that bubble is pierced?

DR. AUSTIN SIMONSON, INTERNAL MEDICINE SPECIALIST, SANFORD MEDICAL CENTER, SIOUX FALLS, SOUTH DAKOTA: I find that they -- the bubble is pierced when typically when it is their family member or they themselves get ill, but there is a profound ability for people to think it won't happen to me, it happens to other people, and that's unfortunate.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SIMONSON: Even still you may have seen what one of our nurses in South Dakota, patients dying with it, denying that it exists. I have -- I have family members that deny it exists and it's hard to have that conversation with them.

HARLOW: Yes, we saw her right on -- you know, right on this network on "NEW DAY" and it was stunning to hear her say that.

You were, Dr. Simonson, nodding when Dr. Hatton talked about the societal fatigue and I wonder if you go through the same. Right? I mean, you go from work, grocery store, home, and if you see people acting like this isn't real, what that's like for you trying to save lives?

SIMONSON: I think just -- you know, we recognized early on that this was going to be a marathon and, you know, we are on mile 13. It is exhausting and to do that going from patient to patient every day it is -- it's fatigue for us and the difficulty is making sure that not just us in the medical community, but everybody else recognizes that it is a marathon and we've got a long ways to go.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, listen, Dr. Hatton, what do you do now to save lives? Right? If folks don't believe it until they're laying in the hospital bed on their bellies, right, to try to survive this or see their relatives in that position, how do you avoid getting to that point? What's it going to require, right?

HATTON: Yes, and we just -- I think, you know, we issued a state mandate about seven days ago now or a little bit longer and I think that we just need to continue to sort of scale everything back, right? I mean, we don't have to, I think, shut everything down to zero like we did. We know that works. In Utah we did not have a first wave because we closed everything down and we essentially had no cases or very few cases until this summer when everybody else sort of was experiencing their second wave.

So we know it works. We just have to find sort of a better balance between, you know, the sort of economic perspective of this and the health care perspective, and it seems like we go from one extreme to the other and so we need to sort of move towards the middle, focus on the things we know that work which include sort of isolation, sort of restricting your travel and movements, and really focusing on sort of your family and that close-knit group for about -- you know, the best case scenario is a week or, you know, two weeks or a month to sort of really break this cycle.

And if we all did that, just sort of hunkered down, it's horrible, it's holidays, it's challenging, it's challenging on all of us to do those things, then we could break this cycle. And then normalcy will come back sooner. You know? If we just break the current cycle.

HARLOW: Thank you, doctors, both so much for what you're doing on the front lines and for spending a little bit of time with us this morning. We're very grateful.

SIMONSON: Thanks for having us on.

HARLOW: Of course.

Well, there is a new report out and it's tragic. It finds that 12 million Americans are set to possibly lose all of their unemployment benefits, money they've been using to survive, the day after Christmas.

A single mother now fearing eviction is with us next.

[09:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: 742,000 Americans just filed for first-time unemployment benefits last week. This is the first increase in a month, but these numbers have been way too high now, four months.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Now new research also finds that the day after Christmas, up to 12 million Americans could lose all their unemployment benefits. What they've been relying on just to get by.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And because Congress has failed to pass a new stimulus, fears of an eviction crisis could soon become America's reality. Imagine that.

CNN Business lead writer Matt Egan joins us now to explain this deadline that's expiring.

OK, Matt, we've had a lot of deadlines throughout this. Tell us about this one and how many people it impacts and by how much?

MATTHEW EGAN, CNN BUSINESS LEAD WRITER: Well, Jim, it's no secret 2020 has been a pretty horrible year for millions of Americans. Understandably a lot of Americans can't wait for the year to end but there is a catch because some of these federal relief programs are actually coming to an end and there's no deal in sight to extend them.

[09:40:11]

Specifically there are two parts of the CARES Act act, one that covers gig workers and self-employed people and others who don't get benefits, and there's another program that is for people who are under -- out of work for a long period of time. Both of those come to an end. That's a big deal because, as you mentioned, another 742,000 Americans filing for unemployment benefits. Just to give you some context around that, during the Great Recession, the worst week was 665,000.

That means that this number, even though it's come down recently during this recession, it's way worse than what we saw during the Great Recession. Meanwhile, as you mentioned, a wave of evictions is possible. That's because the CDC has an order that is blocking any more evictions, but that order expires at the end of the month. People will owe all of the back rent in January.

Despite this benefit cliff, you know, the U.S. Senate. they're out of town until December, no deal is in sight, and, Jim, one economist that I follow closely, he called this a dereliction of duty by Congress.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: I totally agree with that. The economic recovery, all of this further complicated by what is -- it's understated to say a messy transition and yesterday JPMorgan's CEO Jamie Dimon said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMIE DIMON, CEO, JPMORGAN CHASE: We need a peaceful transition. We had an election, we have a new president, we should have unity to that, we should support that. Whether you like it or not what the election outcome is, you should support the democracy because it is based on a system of faith and trust.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And, Matt, based on that, you've got some important reporting about the impact that JPMorgan thinks this could all have on the bigger picture economy.

EGAN: That's right, Poppy. I think most of Wall Street views the Trump campaign's legal war on the election results as kind of a sideshow. Markets really haven't flinched at all, the headlines around lawsuits and lawsuits that have been dismissed and withdrawn, because legal experts just don't think that it really stands much of a chance.

But yesterday what was so interesting is that one of Jamie Dimon's top strategists put out this report warning clients that, you know, there is still a remote risk that all of this kind of descends into what he called constitutional mayhem. He pointed to President Trump's recent firing of a top DHS official, the drama this week over certifying results from Michigan's largest county.

And I want to stress that even though this is not necessarily what they think is going to happen I think it's pretty telling that the biggest bank in the country is going deep into the legal, constitutional weeds here, just in case this still ends up being a messy outcome, Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, the president hasn't given up. He's got a press conference later today claiming a path here. We've got to pay attention.

Matt Egan, thanks very much.

EGAN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, joining us now is one of the 12 million Americans who are set to lose their unemployment by a bizarre consequence, a sad one of all this, the day after Christmas.

HARLOW: Karin Smith is a single mother. She is in Florida and right now doesn't know if she can pay her rent next month.

And of course, Karin, you're a mom. You know, you've got a boy at home who is relying on you and I'm just -- I'm so sorry and I'm grateful that you're here to share what you're going through because you were getting by, you had a good job making $96,000 a year at the U.S. Department of Education. I'm -- what do you do --

KARIN SMITH, WILL LOSE UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS ON DECEMBER 26TH: I did. HARLOW: What do you do each day now to make sure that your --you know,

your boy has three meals a day and that he's got a roof over his head?

SMITH: Luckily Florida's unemployment is so low that we qualify for food stamps, so I can feed the 14-year-old growing boy. We stopped going to food banks because they're closing and they're far now, and we kind -- they stay open at 9:00, you have to be there at 5:00 a.m. to hope to get anything. South Florida is in trouble.

So I spend my time helping him with school and looking for answers to this problem and then switching gears and trying to be, you know, super professional and finding a job so that I'm not dependent on this whole system. So it's exhausting. Terrifying.

SCIUTTO: Karin, you've heard some lawmakers make the argument that benefits like this discourage people from working or looking for work. Make them lazy in effect. You've been doing a whole host of things, including looking for a job selling purses.

[09:45:05]

I just want you to respond to that charge.

SMITH: I think it's absurd to think that anyone wants to live this way. It's constant stress. There's no time of day when it's a little bit easier. You don't get home from work and, you know, have a glass of wine and it's all better. It's never ending. I don't know who thinks that you can live on $275 a week or who would want to. It's less than minimum wage. Even people who weren't doing great ahead of this can't live on this. It's not laziness.

And I think that there is an assumption that sort of -- you know, well, there are jobs out there. OK, but a job making $8 an hour is not going to pay my $1650 rent let alone all the other expenses I have because I had a good job.

HARLOW: There has to be also the -- you know, the complicating effort of trying to hide a little bit of it from your son, Karin. I mean, I don't know, my kids are younger. But, right, you don't want them to like see your pain and to know how hard it is. And I wonder for anyone who is watching, because you're obviously very bright, could you just like tell them a little bit about your skills or what you used to do at the Department of Ed in case anyone out there has a good job for you?

SMITH: This is funny, I actually worked in data compliance and I've done data management for colleges and universities for years. And so I was really surprised when the governor hired the Uber driver blogger to run the COVID Web site and I'm sitting here with all these degrees in data.

(LAUGHTER)

SMITH: It's like, what am I doing wrong?

SCIUTTO: Yes. SMITH: So, you know, I have lots of skills, but they're not skills

that transfer down. Nobody is hiring me to, you know, be a data analyst for $30,000 a year. So I'm looking for good jobs, I'm willing to move out of Florida. This adventure has been fun, it's nice to live near the beach, but I think this state -- the legislature met yesterday and on their legislative agenda there's nothing to do with COVID and there's nothing to do with unemployment.

Anna Eskamani is the sole legislature here who has introduced legislation. She is a Democrat, and I don't expect it to go anywhere. So they're not going to raise (INAUDIBLE) so it's scary and my son is old enough now that he watches the news and he sees what's going on, and we've been pretty much together now constantly since March, the middle of March, and he can see on my face when things are wrong. You know, single parents who understand like your kids watch you.

They can read you like a book and he knows way more than I would like about how frail it is. He actually wants us to buy a motor home and move us and the pets into it because he doesn't want to lose the dog or our cat, and he thinks that that's the answer because he read somewhere that you can stay in Walmart parking lots for free if you have a motor home.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

SMITH: So his level of anxiety is through the roof.

SCIUTTO: Listen, Karin --

SMITH: And so --

SCIUTTO: I hope that lawmakers of both parties are hearing the urgency of your story right now because you need help. And we really do hope you get it.

SMITH: We do. And I've waited and waited, you know, we waited until the election. I can't believe they're just not going to do anything again.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well --

HARLOW: We can't, either.

SCIUTTO: No. Let's hope they're listening and let's hope you get the help you need. Let's stay in touch if we can because we'd like to hear what happens next for you.

SMITH: Thank you. Thank you so much.

SCIUTTO: Karin Smith, one of millions of Americans facing real crisis right now. Thanks very much.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:53:46]

HARLOW: Well, the president's disinformation campaign --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: It appears to be working in a sense. I guess it depends if you define working. But it is winning over a majority of self-identified Republicans. Listen to these numbers. There's a new Monmouth poll that shows 7 in 10 Republicans believe that Joe Biden only won the election because of supposed, quote, "voter fraud" despite zero evidence of widespread issues.

SCIUTTO: CNN senior political analyst John Avlon joins us now.

John, I mean, clearly for a certain member of the population, it is working, these lies in effect. There's another poll that shows more than half of Republicans believe Trump rightfully won. That's lower than 70 percent. Where does the data stand? Where does it lead us?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it shows that the president's disinformation campaign is finding a receptive audience particularly because we've sort of self-segregated into separate political realities via hyper partisan media and social media. But that doesn't change reality. And this is a jump ball moment for our country. Make no mistake. Those Republicans who've coddled the president, who've made excuses for his autocratic impulses, at this moment their silence in the face of this disinformation campaign is complicity with what amounts to an attack on the credibility of our democracy from the White House. It's not complicated.

[09:55:05]

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.

HARLOW: It is not complicated at all, John Avlon. What do you think it means in terms of what happens? You know, like, I think about what is Inauguration Day going to be like? And I know it's symbolic for the president to go with the president-elect on that day. But big picture, I mean, you're so good at analyzing what it means for our democracy.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: What do you think numbers like this mean?

AVLON: It means that the divisions in the country that Joe Biden campaigned to help heal are being exacerbated by the outgoing president because they would rather ruin if they cannot rule. We've had divided times before. I could get nerd out on you about the 1876 election. And that went up to -- you know, right before Inauguration Day. But the reality is that because of the forces this president is deploying, he's pulling off the kind of attack on the integrity of a democracy that our foreign adversaries can only fantasize about.

Leadership matters. Biden reaching out matters, but it's also going to require Republicans in positions of leadership to talk to members of their party. And that's what we're not hearing. We've got four Republican senators, and God bless them, who stood up and said Joe Biden won the election. Every other one is complicit in an attack on the integrity of our democracy. And they consider themselves patriots, and I know they do, they need to speak up because right now they are absolutely elevating party over country, and that's a sin history is not going to forgive.

SCIUTTO: And remember, a lot of those lawmakers said let the legal process play out. Well, the fact is that's pretty much played out. Trump has lost in court across the board but is now starting a new strategy of turning states -- pushing states to overturn the results of the election. We have to pay attention.

AVLON: We do. I -- go ahead.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: I'm so sorry, John, we're out of time.

AVLON: It's fine.

HARLOW: But we love your brain and we promise we'll have you back.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back at the top of the hour.

AVLON: Take care, guys.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)