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Trump Ratchets Up Efforts to Overturn Election; Trump's Legal Team Makes Baseless Voter Fraud Claims as They Keep Losing Cases in Court; U.S. COVID Cases Hit Record High, 2,000 Plus Deaths Reported Thursday. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired November 20, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:10]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you so much for joining me.

It's no longer a whisper, it's now being shouted from the roof tops. President Trump is trying to overturn the election even as results are recounted and reconfirmed. He doesn't care.

Today, he is taking his fight a step that is so out of bounds it's hard to know where we go from here. Hosting at the White House, Republican lawmakers from Michigan. The very same lawmakers that are in charge of taking that final step of appointing presidential electors.

Here's one of them arriving would show you right there, at Reagan National Airport just a short time ago.

So, stand by to find out what comes of that. But the Democratic secretary of state of Michigan told CNN this morning she has confidence in the system.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOCELYN BENSON (D), MICHIGAN SECRETARY OF STATE: The state legislature has already said, the leaders in the state legislature have already confirmed publicly that they have no desire or intent to overturn the will of the people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: This whole thing, this step really is too much - too much for some Republicans. Not many, but a couple. Like Senator Mitt Romney, who released a scathing statement about Trump's pressure campaign on Michigan saying Trump has quote, "resorted to overt pressure on state and local officials to subvert the will of the people and overturn the election." Romney says, "It's difficult to imagine a worse, more undemocratic action by a sitting American president."

And that's not all. After fighting and losing in courtrooms across the country, the president's new legal strategy seems to be burn it all down and poison the wells. Sending out Rudy Giuliani to make a public case for their legal long shots but it was really just bizarre and not founded in reality. Even blaming voter fraud at one point on Hugo Chavez, who has been dead for seven years.

Republican Senator Ben Sasse putting it this way, "Wild press conference erode public trust. So no, obviously Rudy and his buddies should not pressure electors to ignore their certification obligations under the statute. We are a nation of laws, not tweets."

Summed up another way, here's how the former top election security another official in the Trump administration put it. "That press convention was the most dangerous 1 hour 45 minutes of television in American history."

So, two months before he takes office, what is the president-elect to do about this?

Jessica Dean, she's covering is covering the transition in Wilmington, Delaware. She's joining me once again. Jessica, what are you hearing from the Biden transition about this?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting, Kate. A senior adviser for Biden just held a call, talking about Trump's legal efforts. Bob Bauer, he said that, harm to Democracy in all of these efforts by Trump is real but he said Trump cannot be successful in what he's trying to do.

This comes as we heard the strongest words yet from the president- elect himself on this whole transition process, on President Trump's behavior. Take a listen for yourself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think you're witnessing an incredible irresponsibility. Incredibly damaging message is being sent to the rest of the world about how Democracy functions. He will go down in history as being one of the most irresponsible presidents in America history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Some very strong words from the president-elect during a press conference yesterday afternoon. He also talked about all the options still being on the table, including legal action to push this transition forward to get the General Services Administration to sign off on the formal transition process beginning.

But Biden said he - he really made it clear. He's hesitant to do that. He doesn't want to pursue legal action as his first choice. It remains on the table, certainly not his first choice, Kate. Instead, he really believes that he can get Republicans to unite, come to his side and to push this transition forward, to put some pressure on President Trump and his allies. Kate?

BOLDUAN: And maybe one example of that, the president-elect is expected to announce some of his first cabinet picks next week. What are you learning about that?

DEAN: Right. So, again, this is another example of how the Biden transition team is continuing to push forward despite this formal transition process not happening right now. Biden saying yesterday, they have made a decision on a Treasury secretary. We're expecting that announcement to come next week. We're also expecting the potential for more announcements, perhaps secretary of state coming next week as well.

Again, this timeline being moved up just a little bit. They were saying maybe after Thanksgiving. Now we're thinking maybe it could come before because they see President Trump's actions and they want to project to Americans but also to Republican allies of President Trump and President Trump himself that they are putting together a government. They intend to govern. They are moving forward. That they will not be deterred by any actions that President Trump continues to take.

[11:05:08]

And of note, Kate, later this afternoon we will see House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, here in Wilmington to meet with the president and vice president elect.

BOLDUAN: Jessica, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

So, we also have this. Just in to CNN. CNN just learned that there are now plans in place to invite other Republican state legislatures to the White House. Two sources confirming to CNN that at least discussions at the very least are underway to invite leaders from the battleground state of Pennsylvania now as well to the White House.

Joining me right now is the former chairman of the Federal Election Commission, also a long-time Republican election attorney, who served as John McCain's general counsel during his presidential campaigns. Trevor Potter is here. And CNN political director David Chalian.

I have a million things to ask you both about what we are seeing playout. But David, just first to you, forget any lawsuits. What we're seeing from the president now in bringing Republican state legislatures to the White House, is there any other way to see this than the president is transparently trying to steal this election now?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: No, there's no other way to see it. I missed the chapter in history when I learned about how the United States conducts its free and fair elections, the chapter that says and after it's all over and you've clearly lost as an incumbent president, that you can start courting individual legislatures to see if they will go against the will of the people in their state.

That's not part of our system. This is other level stuff right now. As you just heard from Jessica Dean, Kate, this is not about the outcome here. We understand, Joe Biden at noon on January 20th, is going to be the president of the United States. Two months from today.

The issue is the damage over the last couple weeks and for the next two months to go, until Joe Biden takes the oath of office and becomes president. That Donald Trump, the sitting president of the United States, is doing to undermine this country's democracy because he is trying to put his own personal interests, his financial interests, what he wants to build for his post presidential years in place. And to him, that is all so much more important than the message this sends around the world and to the very institutions the damage that he is doing here at home.

BOLDUAN: Trevor, what do you think about all of this? I mean, what can be done about it? What can Trump actually do here?

TREVOR POTTER, ELECTION LAW EXPERT: Well, I think this is a very dangerous course of conduct by the president. You know, in a democracy, the voters choose their leaders. And to have a president who is saying I don't like what the voters did. I'm going to try to find a way to get around it is just a terrible message. It won't work.

So, when we talk about Trump's legal options here, they are to go to court and to prove, in a court of law, with evidence, that there was sufficient activity either fraudulent votes or miscounting that the election results are incorrect as they're currently called. And that's not happening.

The Trump lawsuits have been thrown out of almost every single court in the country. What you saw yesterday was Giuliani at a press conference saying things that he could never get away with saying in court because he'd have to prove them in court and he has no proof of them.

So, this is a P.R. move by the president, not a legal move. So, I agree, it doesn't affect the end result, which is Joe Biden has a majority in the electoral college, Georgia announced in its recount, that isn't changing it's a clear majority. So, he is sworn in, but the damage being done by suggesting that somehow the voters' will doesn't matter and if you don't like it there is some way around it, I think is incredibly dangerous for our country.

Some future election things may be a lot closer and then the idea that state legislatures who have no role in this at all at this stage should somehow dive in and try to change the election results would be really dangerous and this sets the stage for something like that.

CHALIAN: Just to underscore, Kate, one of Trevor's point there about Rudy Giuliani and the press conference yesterday and not -- saying certain things that he would not say in court. Literally, one - like one of the claims he was making at the press conference he had already been scolded in court for making and withdrew because he knew that it doesn't stand up in court and he could be disbarred if he pursued what he was pursuing at the press conference yesterday. So, even in that one press conference we saw Giuliani say something for P.R. purposes that is he had already retreated from in a court of law.

BOLDUAN: That's a -- exactly. You can't lie to a judge without consequences. You can, I'll say unfortunately, lie to the press without consequences, at least legal consequences it seems.

[11:10:01]

Trevor, what is Mike Pence's role in this? Is silence and standing by as Trump kind of lights this thing on fire, OK?

POTTER: Well, you know, Pence is not in his vice presidency as far as I know ever publicly disagreed with the president. I'm more concerned about Republican leaders around the country and in the Senate. You mentioned Mitt Romney. But the McConnell position has been that we'll let the lawsuits play out. Well, they are playing out and the recounts are playing out and they're not changing anything, and there is no prospect given the size of the Biden win in the electoral college and in the various states that they could playout.

I mean, you look at Michigan, where there was a fight over certifying Wayne County. The question was, were they a couple hundred votes off or not in the election books? In a state which Biden won by 145,000 votes. So, I think the question is, where are the Republican leaders saying this is dangerous, you're playing with fire, to suggest that in Michigan leaders should come to the White House and somehow find a way around the clear will of the people of Michigan. I don't expect leaders will support that, but they really ought to be out there saying, this is contrary to how a democracy works. You can't do this, and it is damaging. And that's --

BOLDUAN: It is.

POTTER: -- what we need.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I'll say it's heartening to hear you say it, Trevor. To stand up for you know, for what should be stood up for. David, one more thing, Dana and Gloria have been reporting that Trump has told an ally that he knows he lost. But he's trying to sow doubt in the election in order to get back at Democrats for what he thinks is questioning -- delegitimizing his win in 2016. I'm just sitting here thinking of that, not only is that bananas but does that acknowledgement make this any better or worse?

CHALIAN: No, of course not. First of all, Donald Trump has been telling us for four years publicly that he is consumed by the fact that he thinks the Democrats never considered him a legitimate president, whether it was the Russia investigation, or impeachment, or what have you. He has been completely consumed by this notion that he has not been seen as a legitimate president and that the Democrats were trying to undermine him.

So, read his Twitter feed, look at his public statements. That's been for four years. I don't understand how that is - I mean, it's great reporting to get into what his mindset is, and we know Donald Trump is not a stupid person. So, he obviously knows that he lost the election but that doesn't mean that he accepts that reality. He is so convinced. And he has a media echo chamber to support this and he has the aiding and abetting of silent Republicans on Capitol Hill to help him move forward with this too. That he can create an entirely fact free alternate universe and take some soft 72 million voters, Kate, and bring them along with him into whatever he wants to build for the future and maintain political power even if he's no longer in the Oval Office.

BOLDUAN: The real and long-standing damage that you guys were laying out right now is terrifying to say the least. But thank you for both calling out. It's great to see you, David. Trevor, it's always a pleasure. Thank you.

Coming up for us, the U.S. reported more new cases of COVID yesterday than on any other day since this pandemic began. What the coordinator for the White House Coronavirus Task Force told CNN's Sanjay Gupta, worries her most right now.

Plus, Georgia completes its audit of the presidential election and despite all of the polls claims by President Trump, finds no widespread fraud.

What's next for the election results there then? That's coming up.

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[11:18:10]

BOLDUAN: More than 2,000 deaths from coronavirus were reported yesterday. That is now the highest since May. The pace of infection across the country has jumped so much that it is even surprising the experts who have been forecasting the pandemic impact from the beginning. More than 187,000 new cases were reported yesterday, the highest single number of new infections in a single day since the pandemic began. That has one modeling group upping their death projection considerably by about 30,000 deaths now projecting 471,000 Americans will be killed by the virus by March 1st.

The trend map gives you a snapshot of what's leading to that really tragic forecast. Almost the entire country is seeing cases go up. And Dr. Deborah Birx, the coordinator for the White House Coronavirus Task Force who has largely been sidelined, she didn't have many encouraging words when she sat down with Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE COORDINATOR: When you look at what's happening now, the rate of rise is dramatically different. And the number of states and the number of counties in the United States that have what we -- what we consider a red zone because of their characteristics, is now well over half of the country. So, this is faster, it's broader, and what worries me, it could be longer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: What does that mean? And what does that look like?

Joining me right now is Dr. Ashish Jha. He's the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health. Doctor, thank you for being here. That assessment from Birx is pretty dire. I mean, how bad -- how bad -- how do you see it? How bad do you think this is going to get?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Kate, thank you for having me on. Unfortunately, I think Dr. Birx is right. We are entering and are in now, not even entering in, the worst phase of the pandemic. [11:20:02]

We have 200,000 Americans getting identified as being infected. I suspect the real number is probably about 500,000 Americans getting infected every day. It's awful. And we knew this was coming though I did not personally think it was going to be this bad this early in the season. And we've had no federal leadership, little to no federal engagement, no effort to ramp up testing, no effort to really communicate to the American people what's going to happen the next month or two. These are going to be some pretty tough months ahead.

BOLDUAN: For sure. I mean, in this new surge has, you know, local officials having to make some tough calls once again. And places like New York City announcing that they're closing down schools. That was just this week. And you actually put out a new opinion piece in "The Washington Post" today about just this. You say that it's the wrong call. Why is that?

JHA: Yes, So, we've learned a lot about schools over the last few months. And you know, over the summer I was very worried whether we could open schools safely. We have learned that you can open schools safely. In fact, most places that have done so have not seen outbreaks of schools - sorry, of COVID in schools and have not seen much of it -- that school outbreaks are -- what's happening in schools is leading to broader spread in the community.

So, that's new data that really should change the way we think about things. Another critical part is there are a lot of places like New York City where dining is open -- indoor dining is open, bars are open, and yet schools are closed. That makes no sense to me. Like, if you're going to close things, schools should be the last things to close, they should be the first to open. I don't think we're getting our priorities right.

BOLDUAN: And you're right now talking about what is important, right. What the priorities are. And as you said, the lack of federal leadership on this. So, in the midst of fighting this surge, very serious surge across the country, I was surprised to hear that the Senate this week is focused not on the stuff we've just discussed but on hydroxychloroquine, the drug that the president pushed so hard but still hasn't been proven as an effective treatment for COVID at all. And you were there in the Senate. You were testifying at this hearing. I'm just going to play a brief moment of what we saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JHA: Just like no one has studied this. We've had multiple trials, including some in the outpatient setting. They just haven't worked.

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): But again - that -- so that's disputed. In your testimony, you came up and I'm telling you, this is I consider disinformation, scare tactic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: You're imparting disinformation in a scare tactic. I mean, what was this all about in the Senate yesterday?

JHA: It was one of the oddest experiences I've ever had testifying in front of the Senate or the House or the Congress at all. This was -- there were three witnesses on the other side who were extolling the virtues of hydroxychloroquine. Essentially arguing, Kate, that the reason Americans are dying is because we're not giving them hydroxychloroquine. And that there is a vast conspiracy among all the doctors and nurses across America to deny the American people hydroxychloroquine.

It is a bizarre set of arguments. And when I brought up science and evidence and clinical data, that was essentially thought of as misinformation. It's a very odd moment we are in, it's a perilous moment we are in. And all I know is that it has got to be evidence, it's got to be public health, it's got to be data that's going to drive our decision making. And that hearing really was the antithesis of that, unfortunately.

BOLDUAN: I mean, it was wild. It was wild, Dr. Jha. I mean, you are -- you were so respected for your even keeled fact-based science-driven advice that you give, and you were shouting into a void when you were testifying at this hearing. I really was kind of blown away by it.

Let's talk about science driven and maybe some possible good news. Let's hope it's all driven by science and not driven by that Senate hearing, sorry to say.

Pfizer announcing this morning, Dr. Jha, that it's going to be - they will be submitting today for authorization for emergency use by the FDA for its vaccine. What does that mean for the end game? When can people start - you know like -- should this give people hope they can start seeing normal again?

JHA: Absolutely. And one of the reasons we really have to hunker down for the next couple of months is that the light at the end of the tunnel is there, it's bright. This is going to get much, much better. So, the Pfizer news today is part of what I've been expecting.

My expectation is on the next two to three weeks, we're going to see the FDA authorize the Pfizer vaccine, probably in the same timeline of the Moderna vaccine. We're going to have more vaccines coming out over the next month or so. And people are going to start getting vaccinated in December and January.

This pandemic will start getting better once we get into February, March and by April, May, things will be dramatically better. So, people have to hold on. It's really the next couple months that are going to be really hard. But if we can get through it, 2021 is going to be a much, much better year.

[11:25:05]

BOLDUAN: Dr. Jha, thank you so much.

JHA: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: It's good to see you.

Still ahead for us, the election audit in Georgia confirms Joe Biden defeated President Trump and also found no widespread fraud in the system. We are live in Georgia, next.

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