Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Undercuts American Democracy as Legal Options Fizzle; Record-Breaking Pace, U.S. Sees 187,000-Plus Infections in a Day. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 20, 2020 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:05]

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): We need a smooth handoff.

And then to be clear on a previous point you made, Dana, Vice President-elect Harris is not getting the presidential daily brief, she's only getting what senators get.

DANA BASH, CNN INSIDE POLITICS: Senators get, that's what I meant. Thank you so much. We are way out of time. Thank you for joining me, Senator. Thank you for watching.

Brianna Keilar picks up our coverage right now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN RIGHT NOW: Hello, I'm Brianna Keilar, and I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world.

President Trump is trying to overturn the election that he lost to Joe Biden by 74 electoral votes and almost 6 million popular votes. He is attempting to stop certification of votes in states where Biden beat him, like Michigan. Trump invited state lawmakers to the White House, where they're expected to meet with him in three hours.

This extraordinary and alarming meeting happening before these lawmakers are involved in the process to certify the vote of the state where Joe Biden won by 154,000 votes.

Trump is trying to overthrow the usually perfunctory process, lobbying these lawmakers to ignore the will of the majority of voters. Trump's guests today, Michigan Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey and Michigan House Speaker Lee Chatfield.

Protesters making it clear what they thought as Shirkey arrived this morning at Reagan National Airport just outside of Washington, D.C.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame on you, shame on you, shame on you, shame on you, shame on you.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: You heard protesters there yelling, shame on you, at Shirkey. And Trump's goal here is to stop Michigan from certifying its results, and enlist Republican state officials to overturn Biden's win by ceding Trump electors to the Electoral College, ignoring what those state's voters wanted, what they voted for. Shirkey and Chatfield have both said previously that they will honor Biden's win. That was before the pressure campaign from Trump.

This White House visit follows Trump's similar persuasion efforts earlier this week to sway Republican officials at the county level in Michigan. Tuesday, Wayne County canvassing board members dropped their attempt to stop certification of the vote in the Detroit area, which delivered Michigan for Joe Biden. And we now know Trump called them up personally in the middle of this process.

This kind of stuff doesn't happen in America or it didn't before Trump. A few Republicans are starting to find some courage to speak up, but mostly they're the voices that we are used to hearing call out Trump's anti-American actions.

Is it enough? Two sources tell CNN there are discussions currently under way with the president about inviting Republican state legislators from Pennsylvania as well to the White House. This as the president's battle in the courts is going nowhere fast and he is running out of options.

Thursday, Trump and his allies lost cases in Arizona, Pennsylvania, and Georgia, and right now, he and his allies are 2 for 31 in the courts. For context, one of those two victories in Pennsylvania was that observers can stand six feet instead of ten feet away from bipartisan election officials counting ballots.

So who within the president's party is speaking up? Let's talk about that. There is Senator Mitt Romney blasting the president's meeting today. He says that Trump is trying to subvert the will of the American people. And then there's Nebraska GOP Senator Ben Sasse reminding the president that the United States is a nation of laws and not tweets.

Senator Joni Ernst of Iowa firing back, saying this on Fox Radio, quote, to insinuate the Republican and Democratic candidates paid to throw off this election, I think, is absolutely outrageous, and I do take offense to that. You know, I have fought for my country. I have worn our nation's uniform to protect the values and freedoms our nation espouses. And to have that accusation just offhandedly thrown out there just to confuse our voters across the United States, I think that is absolutely wrong.

I want to go to Boris Sanchez, our White House correspondent, who is covering this. And the White House press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, Boris, called this meeting with Michigan lawmakers an advocacy meeting, which is just not believable. The timing here is what makes it clear what this meeting us. Tell us what you're hearing.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, this is an incredibly poor attempt to gaslight the American people. Kayleigh McEnany from the press briefing room essentially saying that the president routinely meets with lawmakers from all around the country.

What a coincidence then that the president today is meeting with these top Republicans from Michigan, a state in which he is trying to delay certification of votes showing that Joe Biden won the election there. The president clearly desperate at this point, and McEnany backing him up.

She also tried to make the case that no one from the campaign would be in the room for this meeting. We should flag, Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal attorney, told a New York local T.V. station this morning that he would be there for this meeting to try to answer any questions that these lawmakers might have.

[13:05:10]

It is truly a desperate move by the president, to call it unprecedented, Brianna, is an understatement.

KEILAR: Yes. That's also dubious because Rudy Giuliani made it very clear in court this week he is quite bad in answering questions. A judge asked him simple ones and he couldn't.

Boris Sanchez, thank you so much, live for us from the White House.

There is just a slow drip now of Republicans who are pushing back against President Trump's flailing attempts to cling to power, a late night statement from Senator Mitt Romney, then this morning, those strong words from former Senator Bob Corker, who says that Republicans must call out Trump's demagoguery and patently false statements.

CNN Senior Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. And, Manu, right now, we are hearing from Republicans that we're familiar seeing speak out against Trump, maybe some who aren't so much. But there's not like a flood of Republicans speaking out. Might there be here in coming days?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We will see. Because a lot of these Republicans have been saying, we're going to give the president some time to make his case. They did not necessarily think that he was going to try to pressure state lawmakers to overturn the will of voters in the states. And as that effort grows, we'll see if Republican concern does grow.

But I am hearing from some people who typically don't criticize the president, questioning his strategy, questioning his moves and raising concerns. One senior House Republican member, Kay Granger of Texas, she sits on the House Appropriations Committee, she served for some time, she told me she has great concerns about what the president is doing. She said -- I asked if it is time for the president to concede, she said it is time for the president to realize what's happening.

Other Republicans, senior Republicans as well, like Fred Upton, told me that the president should concede. And he also -- he serves in Michigan. He said that it has not been the voter fraud in Michigan that the president has been alleging, certainly not in Detroit. And Senator Lamar Alexander, who is retiring, that chairs a key committee with influence in the Senate, says that, at least the transition process should begin so as not to disrupt key things, such as vaccine distribution, in the coming Biden administration.

So, you said it, there's a slow drip of members who are coming out. Vast majority of members, including Republican leadership is still backing the president's strategy. We'll see if more divisions surface in the coming days if the president decides not to listen to results, continues to push these states to delay certifying results showing that Joe Biden is the clear victor here, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right. Manu Raju, thank you so much.

Time now to get some perspective on all of this. I am joined by a senior columnist for The Daily Beast, Sophia Nelson, who is with us. She is also former investigative council for House Republicans.

Sophia, I mean, what's your take on, I guess, first, what we are seeing from Republicans in Congress. Because while it's not surprising what we're seeing from President Trump, it is incredibly alarming. And we saw Senator Romney pushing back. It has been 17 days since the election though.

SOPHIA NELSON, FORMER HOUSE GOP INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL: Yes, I mean, a couple of things, Brianna. No one should be surprised that congressional Republicans, particularly in the senate, are not speaking out the way that we all believe they should, and that we all believe that we watched these people in public life a long time, and we have seen them speak up about a lot less very angrily, if you will, and none of them are doing that now.

But if you go back to impeachment in January, it tells you all you need to know. And I am not surprised at all that they're not speaking up, Brianna.

With respect to what the president is doing, however, not only is it unconstitutional. Article one designates the states to have the power of the election so that it is closest to the people. The executive, which is an article two power, is who the president is. He embodies the executive. The executive has no business interfering in a state process, trying to flip electors, trying to coerce.

And I have been studying 18 USC 29 in the law and the federal codes and really trying to parse that out. And I believe that a case could be made against this president that he is violating the law. What he is doing is not only unconstitutional, it is illegal.

KEILAR: So he didn't have luck with the Wayne County canvas board members. They tried, the Republicans that he had gotten in touch with. But in the end, they faced immense pressure and they buckled.

So, now, you have these Republican state lawmakers who will be involved in the process of certifying this vote at the state level here in coming days. How do you think they're going to respond now being called to the White House? NELSON: Well, Brianna, first of all, they have no business at the White House for all the reasons I just broke down. This is a soft coup. America needs to understand, this is a soft coup here. And I don't know how soft it is because he is doing it in broad daylight.

[13:10:01]

The president can't go to the legislature, the electors and try to get them to flip because he doesn't like the election results. As you said at the outset, that's not what we do in America. And Republicans better start speaking up now and they better figure out how they're going to walk down there and tell him to knock it off.

KEILAR: So, should these state lawmakers should have just said no, we're not coming?

NELSON: Absolutely, they should have said no. They should have said, Mr. President, there's a process here. We are beholden to the states that we represent. The will of the people cannot be overturned, sir, because you don't like it. And at the most base level, Brianna, would you go to a meeting someone called you to when you were in the process of certifying election results where they clearly didn't win and they clearly want you to flip to their side?

For your own self-preservation, people, knock it off. You've got grandchildren, you have children, you have people that are going to look at you 50 years from now and ask you what was going on with you that you didn't stand up for your country over your party. That's where I come down on this.

KEILAR: So, you have the White House press secretary calling this, I mean, laughable if it wasn't so serious, an advocacy meeting which is just, I mean, not believable. And we have reporting that there are talks about -- there are talks at the White House, the president is considering doing the same thing with Pennsylvania state lawmakers in addition to Michigan.

NELSON: I mean, Brianna, the same analysis I gave you holds. I believe, again, federal law is very clear. The executive has no business coercing and engaging in or trying to turn or flip or demean or threaten state officials about an election. That's illegal. You cannot do it.

So the fact he is doing it in broad daylight as an advocacy meeting, is he a lobbyist now? Is that what he is, because that's not lawful? So, the reality is that Kayleigh McEnany and the whole lot of them have lost it. That press conference yesterday with Rudy Giuliani was an embarrassment to our country. And I think that this is very serious, Brianna.

And I don't think he is going to stop because I'm on T.V. talking about it or you are, but I think that the Republicans better get serious real quick about getting him under control. He needs to concede.

KEILAR: Even Mick Mulvaney, the president's former chief of staff, or acting chief of staff, took issue with Rudy Giuliani. I mean, it's almost --

NELSON: Surreal.

KEILAR: Sophia, you watch it, and it's like -- yes, it is surreal. You can't even believe it is happening. And part of that is if you read what's going on in court, he can't answer basic questions about like -- and we're talking the level of scrutiny that even someone who's a layperson could do about three minutes worth of work and figure out how to answer one of these questions that Rudy Giuliani was asked in court and he can't do it.

NELSON: Brianna, I think the most important thing, and I'm proud to hear that Joni finally found her voice and stood up. I know her, Joni Ernst, she's a friend. I like her. I have been disappointed in her and I haven't been quiet about that. But she is right. This goes to the foundations of who we are. You can't just throw stuff out because you feel like saying it, which is what Trump has been doing four years.

And Giuliani's press conference with Sidney and with the other woman, Jenna, I can't remember their last names, but at the end of the day, they should lose their bar licenses. I am an attorney, I'm sworn into the bar of the United States Supreme Court. I take this seriously. And you can't just go about saying things that are untrue in a tribunal or in public when you're duly sworn in officer of the court. You can't do it. This has to be stopped and has to be stopped immediately.

KEILAR: Yes. You were referring to Jenna Ellis, who actually previously have been quite the critic of President Trump, as we have discussed.

So, Sophia, thank you so much. It's great to talk to you.

NELSON: Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: So, we are following some breaking news right now. Georgia just certified Joe Biden's victory one day after finishing its election audit. That recount by hand. And this certification is what we expected, but it's also a major blow to President Trump's hopes of overturning the outcome of the election.

Biden beat Trump by more than 12,000 votes in Georgia. And Georgia's Republican governor, Brian Kemp, now has until 5:00 P.M. tomorrow to sign the paperwork that officially grants Georgia's 16 electors to Biden.

President-elect Joe Biden's top cabinet picks are starting to come into focus. We are learning that he could announce some choices soon.

And the U.S. on the brink of defeating the pandemic with vaccine progress, but that is months off. And at the same time, we are seeing all-time records for cases.

Plus, a grim new model prediction of nearly 300,000 deaths by Christmas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:15:00]

KEILAR: The United States just hit the highest single day case count yet of this pandemic. More than 187,000 new infections were reported on Thursday. And among the newly infected is a special assistant to the president, Andrew Giuliani, who is also the son of Rudy Giuliani, the president's attorney. He tweeted that he has tested positive and is in isolation. He has been seen often not wearing a mask at the White House, as he is seen here, you can see he is in a picture with his dad at the White House.

Now, the country is now averaging more than 165,000 new cases every 24 hours. For the fourth straight day, hospitalizations are at an all- time high with just over 80,000 people in the hospital battling COVID, and more than 2,000 Americans died yesterday. That is the largest daily death toll reported since May.

Just released modeling from a source often used by the White House projects that there will be 471,000 total deaths in the U.S. by March 1st.

[13:20:03]

The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation is upping its prediction because, quote, the pace of increase is faster than we expected.

Keep in mind, this is with 40 states re-imposing social distancing mandates. If nothing were to be done, no restrictions, the death toll would rise to 658,000. IHME also says that if 95 percent of people wore masks every time they left their house, 65,000 lives could be spared. Right now, IHME finds mask use is at 68 percent nationwide.

White House coronavirus response coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx says this surge is different from other surges.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE COORDINATOR: When you look at what's happening now, the rate of rise is dramatically different and the number of states and the number of counties in the United States that have what we consider a red zone because of their characteristics is now well over half the country. So this is faster, it is broader, and what worries me, it could be longer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: With me now is Dr. Peter Hotez. He is Professor and Dean at the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine. Dr. Hotez, thanks again for being with us.

We're seeing these troubling models, 471,000 dead from COVID by March 1st, so we're talking about really half a million Americans in the course of a year. And we should note that this model, this IHME model has generally been conservative. It tends to underestimate the number of deaths. So what do you want people to know now at this critical time?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, PROFESSOR AND DEAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Well, you know, what I want people to know, Brianna, is that nobody has to die. We are looking now at 150,000 Americans who will lose their lives between now and roughly a week or so after the inauguration. And none of those individuals have to lose their lives. This is all preventable through aggressive social distancing and wearing face masks.

The thing that's most troubling to me is that where it is hyper accelerating up in the northern part of the Midwest, the Dakotas, North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa and then Wyoming, Idaho, as well as in Texas, West Texas especially is equally bad, as we are seeing these surges on intensive care units.

And that's when the mortality rate, the death rate goes like this to this, vertical, because nurses, other staff and doctors get overwhelmed. And it is not just a matter of the beds, it is having trained staff in order to take care of them. Remember, it is exhausting, donning it off and PPE on a regular basis, and we just can't handle the surge. So that's the reason for the aggressive social distancing.

So I'm just so troubled. We'll reach 400,000 Americans who will lose their lives by the week or so after the inauguration. Most of them in the heartland, the middle part of the country, and in Texas. And I have to say more than not, they're mostly red states.

So I am trying to reach out to every group I can, especially conservative news outlets to see what we can do to save lives and get them to ignore the previous disinformation campaign that's come out of the White House.

Because the tragedy is, look, if we can just get all of these individuals to the other side and get them vaccinated, they'll live a normal life span. It is just a matter of hanging on for three months or so. T is not in perpetuity. We just have to get them over that small hump now, keep them alive, keep your mother, father, brother, sister alive.

Get them vaccinated in a normal life. It's about as simple a message as you can get. And it is just troubling we are having such a hard time doing this and it is falling through cracks because we don't have leadership coming out of the White House and we don't have the new team coming in. So who's going to fill that gap? We need Republican leaders to help with this and I'm trying to do what I can.

KEILAR: And so right now, Pfizer and BioNTech say they are submitting for emergency use authorization from the FDA. But I want you to be very clear with us about -- I mean, these are tremendous strides that are being made on the vaccine front but this could also give people a sense of, oh, a vaccine is right around the corner. But you mentioned it, there's three months between us and that, even just for some of the most high-risk folks and we have to get to that point. We have to wade through what is going to be the worst time of the pandemic.

So when you are talking to people about how they need to think about this moment that we're in and how the vaccine relates to it, what do you say?

HOTEZ: I say, again, it is not forever. Good vaccines are coming, extraordinarily effective vaccines. We now know that targeting the spike protein can result in 90, 95 percent protective immunity.

[13:25:02]

Our vaccine also works on this principle as and there're others coming. There's going to be not only the Pfizer vaccine, the Moderna vaccine, the two adenovirus vaccines, we're going to have a fleet of vaccines coming to vaccinate the American people, so that we're going to have a much better place by definitely by this time next year, even earlier, spring or summer.

So, therefore, it is your obligation to keep yourself and your family alive, keep your father alive, your mother alive, your brother, your sister. Stop the nonsense of saying COVID-19 is a hoax or stop the nonsense of what you're hearing from people like Scott Atlas and the White House coronavirus task force trying to attribute COVID deaths to other causes. It is not true.

Or stop the nonsense about the herd immunity or stop nonsense about discrediting face masks. It is all hands on deck and saving lives right now. This is not about political ideologically. This is just being pragmatic and saving the lives of your loved ones.

KEILAR: Peter, thank you so much for being with us.

HOTEZ: Thank you.

KEILAR: The White House just cut off federal emergency funds that were set up to help small businesses. Why the treasury is asking for some $455 billion to be returned?

Plus, a family of five all test positive for the virus in New Mexico, including their 12-year-old who became the youngest in the state to die. I am going to talk to his sister.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:30:00]