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Michigan Senate GOP Officials to Meet with Trump Today; Republican Lawmakers Increase Pressure on Trump; U.S. COVID-19 Deaths Projected to Reach 471,000 by March 1. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 20, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:16]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST, NEWSROOM: Welcome back, I'm Brianna Keilar.

And we begin with President Trump trying to overturn the election that he lost to Joe Biden, and not by a small margin -- by 74 electoral votes and almost 6 million in the popular vote. Trump is now attempting to stop the certification of votes in states where Biden beat him, like Michigan.

Trump has invited Michigan state lawmakers to the White House, where they're expected to meet with him just two hours from now. This alarming meeting, happening before the lawmakers who are involved in the process to certify the vote in the state, where Joe Biden won by 154,000 votes.

Trump's guests today are Michigan Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey and Michigan House Speaker Lee Chatfield.

Protestors, making it clear what they thought as Shirkey arrived this morning in Reagan National Airport just outside of Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Now, both Shirkey and Chatfield had both said previously that they will honor Biden's win, but that was before the pressure campaign from Trump.

The White House press secretary today, trying to brush off this meeting by claiming that the president meets with lawmakers all of the time. Yes, that's what she said. So we're just supposed to believe it's a coincidence that the president is also reportedly working to invite Republican state legislators from Pennsylvania to the White House, another state where the president has baselessly claimed election fraud, where there is no evidence of that.

I want to get straight now to CNN's Kaitlan Collins at the White House. I mean, Kaitlan, it's like -- I'm not sure that they think we're stupid, it's more that they don't really care that anyone is watching what they're doing. What can you tell us about this meeting today, and about what we're seeing perhaps in Pennsylvania, with Pennsylvania lawmakers?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's plainly obvious for everyone to see why the president is inviting these lawmakers here, and I think the lawmakers are -- these legislators are aware of what is going on and why they're being invited to the White House only days before their state is set to certify Joe Biden's win and make it official.

And so if you want to look at what the White House thinks of this, you saw Kayleigh McEnany say earlier it's not an advocacy meeting, but of course this comes only days before that deadline. This was not put on the president's official schedule. Instead, we found out about it through reporting and hearing from these legislators in the state, and now we know that they are considering inviting more to this meeting.

So the one that's happening today with the Michigan legislators, we're told that -- Kayleigh McEnany said earlier that no one from the campaign was going to be there, therefore implying it's not going to be a political meeting, talking about what the campaign's efforts have been to overturn the election results.

But Rudy Giuliani actually said this morning that he is going to be present for this, and of course he's been the one leading these efforts, as we saw with that briefing that happened, that press conference that happened yesterday with Rudy Giuliani. So the effort here is clear of course.

This comes as you're seeing the White House move through these phases of not really knowing where their next path is for how they're going to continue contesting this. Because, Brianna, you know, we saw in the days after the election, they said that they believed as the votes came in in places like Arizona and Nevada, that the president would regain his lead and win those states.

When that didn't happen, they turned to litigation, and we've seen that they have lost or withdrawn -- the president and his allies -- over two dozen lawsuits since the day of the election. So those are fizzling.

So now the president is turning to try to use political pressure on these state legislators. And the question, you know, is how did they respond to this, do they go through with what the president and his allies are clearly pushing, which is to try to get them to override the will of the voters here.

And so these are all these different steps the president has been taking. Of course, the ultimate question is, when does he finally hit the end of this road and himself publicly acknowledge reality, which is that Joe Biden has won this election.

KEILAR: Yes. And why did they say yes to this meeting, traveling from a coronavirus hotspot -- well really, to another coronavirus hotspot, the White House. Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much for that report.

The president and his allies, as Kaitlan mentioned there, they lost some key cases in Arizona, Pennsylvania and Georgia on Thursday. President Trump right now is two for 31 in the courts, and one of the president's biggest supporters, Iowa Senator Joni Ernst, is speaking out about the wild accusation Trump's legal team made yesterday, that candidates were paying to have their elections rigged.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA) (via telephone): We believe in honesty, we believe in the integrity of our election system, which is why I do believe that if there is fraud out there, it should be brought to the court's attention and the proof should be brought forward. We, I think all of us agree on that.

[14:05:01]

But to insinuate that Republican and Democratic candidates paid to throw off this election, I think is absolutely outrageous. And I do take offense to that. You know, I have fought for my country, I've worn our nation's uniform to protect the values and freedoms that our nation espouses. And to have that accusation just offhandedly thrown out there, just to confuse our voters across the United States, I think that is absolutely wrong.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KEILAR: I want to bring in CNN's chief political analyst Gloria Borger and Margaret Talev, politics and White House editor for "Axios." She is also a CNN political analyst.

First to you, Gloria, you've been doing some wonderful reporting about what is going on in the White House right now. Tell us what his advisers are telling him in what is a losing battle.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Dana Bash and I have been talking to people who either have spoken with the president, are friends of the president and understand the kind of what's going on inside. And I can tell you that the president has dug in.

One piece of the reporting is that he sees this as payback to Democrats who never really legitimized his election, he believes. So he's throwing this back at Joe Biden.

The other part of this is from a source who has spoken directly with the president, who says when they say, you know, you ought to allow the transition to occur even if you don't intend to concede, the president has dug in and says you're wrong, you're absolutely wrong. When they say to the president, you know, think about your future,

this could affect how the business community sees you, who is willing to go stay at a Trump hotel, how you're going to be regarded if you need to borrow money for example. And he said it doesn't matter, I've got more than 70 million people behind me and that is all that matters. And so there's no way around this.

And one thing that I was thinking as you were talking to Kaitlan over there is, you know, all during the Mueller reporting, remember we asked the question, can a president really obstruct justice out loud in public? Can he do that publicly? And the answer was, well, yes.

And then the question is here, now, we are seeing a president openly trying to steal an election, right before our very eyes. And there's nothing anyone can do about how he's going to behave because nobody in that White House has a way to speak to him so that he will listen.

KEILAR: Yes, he's not slick, he's very obvious here --

BORGER: Yes.

KEILAR: -- but it's very alarming.

BORGER: Yes.

KEILAR: And, Margaret, there's a growing number of lawmakers who are acknowledging that, they're criticizing the president publicly. The question will be, you know, is it enough? But among them is Republican Senator Dan Sullivan, who says -- or I don't know, some of this criticism is tepid, right? He says that Trump has a "high bar to prove fraud."

You have Texas Congresswoman Kay Granger who says it's "Time to move on." I mean, you look at these -- like I said, I mean, are these -- this pushback is like -- it's like a small little poke, but it's still important, right? Because they're worried about the blowback that they would get from President Trump and right-wing media. What do you look -- what are you seeing right now when you're trying to assess how Republicans are responding to this?

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, Brianna, I'm watching Republicans begin very slowly to try to coalesce around a position that moves the needle, but waiting and watching to see how President Trump responds, what the White House lawyers are able to cause President Trump to do.

And what happens with these certifications, right? I mean, if Georgia certifies today, if some of these other certifications happen between now and Thanksgiving as they're supposed to, the issue will be resolved so that these Republicans don't have to get involved.

And we have some new reporting just in, my colleague Jonathan Swan at the White House, reporting about some of the particulars around this afternoon's meeting, a conference call this morning with Trump campaign and legal staff as well as a lawyer who works at the White House, not inside the counsel's office but a senior advisory role. But he's an attorney on the call, saying, hey, the White House Counsel's Office is not going to participate in this meeting, at least as of right now, there's no reason why they would, this is outside of their purview. But someone -- a lawyer -- should be present from the campaign to help the president navigate the guardrails of what's appropriate to say in a meeting with lawmakers like this.

And in a situation now where worlds collide, it's become difficult to figure out who that lawyer should be because Rudy Giuliani's son, as we know from Twitter, has tested positive for the coronavirus, has been in and out of campaign headquarters, around all of the campaign lawyers and around his dad.

So the conversation then went, well, Rudy Giuliani really shouldn't be the one at the White House today if he's been exposed to COVID. Many advisers don't want Rudy Giuliani to be the one advising the president about how to proceed here anyway.

[14:10:07]

And then a whole conversation about, well, who is safe? Who can we say for certain has not been exposed to COVID who could go in and help guide the parameters of that meeting? So that's the situation as we head toward this unofficial, unscheduled, non-agenda meeting where we all have a general sense of what the agenda might be.

KEILAR: Yes, right? I mean, at this point, it probably -- maybe someone is now ironically wondering what they could have done to try to prevent the spread of COVID at the White House and among associates of the White House.

Gloria?

BORGER: Well, if this -- you know, if this -- Kayleigh McEnany says this isn't an advocacy session. And of course we don't believe that at all because it's not true, and because why would you need a lawyer there if it were just a meet-and-greet for some reason, he just decided to have a meet-and-greet with these Republican legislators.

I mean, this is an advocacy session, it is election interference. I don't know -- I'm not a lawyer so I don't know the legal sense of that term, but I'm just watching a president of the United States try and overturn an election from the Oval Office, which is remarkable. And they can't figure out who needs to be in there because they've got COVID and because a lot of the people, as Margaret was just saying, don't want Rudy Giuliani in there anyway.

At some point, those tepid responses that you were talking about, Brianna, have to get a little stronger. Mitt Romney was strong in the podcast with David Axelrod, saying that this undermines democracy, and I agree with him. But I think we need to hear from more people if this continues. And I understand they're worried about the Georgia elections and all the rest, but come one, folks.

KEILAR: They also -- Margaret, just this administration seems to be operating on a second track, which is -- I mean, while the president is going through his theater of trying to overturn the election -- which you know, certainly we hope that's all it is, is just theater and him, you know, being able to, like, act out something that maybe feels satisfying to him.

But on the other hand, you have this administration doing things that appear to undercut the incoming Biden administration. We're thinking of the most recent thing with the Treasury secretary recalling this money from the CARES Act that is supposed to help small businesses. And you look at it, and all I can wonder is, this is something that severely handicapped small businesses, even the Fed is saying that. Why is this administration doing this?

TALEV: Well, if we had more ability to ask the president questions, perhaps we'd get to the bottom of that answer. Steve Mnuchin is denying that that's what he's trying to do , but I do think you see a clue in the fact that in recent days -- weeks, but really days -- we've seen increasing, like, outward advocacy from the business community.

The National Association of Manufacturers, the Chamber of Commerce, the Business Roundtable, CEOs, corporate leaders, talking about it's time to begin the transition, saying that Joe Biden's won the election.

These are really potentially destabilizing moves for the economy. It's not just a matter of politics where Joe Biden's hands are tied or it makes it tougher for your opponent to, you know, draw a winning hand. Look, we are in this breach without stimulus money, this is a precarious situation, people are waiting for resolution so that both opposing political parties can try to find some space in the middle to do the right thing for the country.

So any moves to pull the rug out from under the next president, regardless of what party that person are (ph) in, could have major economic implications and implications in real people's lives.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly. Gloria, Margaret, thank you so much to both of you, I appreciate the conversation.

And next, an alarming new model projects nearly half a million Americans could die from coronavirus by March. And CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta just sat down with White House Task Force member Dr. Deborah Birx. Why she thinks that folks are not following the guidance on masks.

Plus, Pfizer filing today to get emergency use authorization for its vaccine: a look at the timeline for when you could get it.

[14:14:17]

And later, environmental activist Erin Brockovich will join me live. Why she is upset over one of the people that is on President-elect Biden's transition team.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KEILAR: The United States just hit the highest single-day case count yet of this pandemic. More than 187,000 new infections reported on Thursday. And among the newly infected? Florida Senator Rick Scott, retired Army Brigadier General Anthony Tata, who is a top Pentagon official right now; also Andrew Giuliani, who is a special assistant to the president and is of course the son of Rudy Giuliani, the president's attorney. He, Andrew Giuliani, has often been seen at the White House without a mask.

For the fourth straight day, hospitalizations are at an all-time high with more than 80,000 people in the hospital battling COVID. Listen to an ICU nurse in Arizona describe how overwhelming this surge has been.

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BRANDON HARVISON, ICU NURSE: I am starting to get to a point where I really am, like, sensing an obligation to go to work as much as possible. And there's going to come a point where it's going to be too harmful for my physical health, my mental health. I'll have to stay home.

It's really hard to hold the hand of someone that doesn't get to see their family, that's a really hard thing. And to have to tell those family members that you told them -- the patient -- that they were thinking about you, that they would be here if they could and that they love them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Newly released modeling projects 471,000 total deaths in the United States by March 1st. The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation also finds that if 95 percent of Americans wore masks regularly, 65,000 lives could be saved, 65,000.

White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx spoke with CNN's Sanjay Gupta about why she thinks so many people still are not wearing masks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: I think the thing that confuses Americans -- and I've heard this in the Rocky Mountain states -- when we tell people that these masks prevent transmission -- they're not perfect, but when we tell them they prevent transmission and then we close the spaces where people are 100 percent masked and leave open the spaces where the people are unmasked -- which we know is a transmission area -- that's confusing to the American people.

I understand why it's confusing. I worry about that, because then it gives people the option to say, well, if bars and restaurants are open, then I can have 20 people over for Thanksgiving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Joining me now is primary care doctor Saju Matthew, who is also a public health specialist. Doctor, thank you for coming on again. This is a dire projection, 471,000 deaths by March 1st. So you're talking about basically half a million American deaths in the course of a year since this pandemic began, and that is with 40 states reimposing social distancing mandates. The projection if nothing were done is actually 658,000 deaths.

This is such a critical time that we're in. We do not have a vaccine yet. What do people need to know?

SAJU MATTHEW, PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN AND PUBLIC HEALTH SPECIALIST: Yes, good afternoon, Brianna. It's just really sad to have to sit here, eight months into the pandemic, and also still talk about masks. We shouldn't even really be talking about masks. Every single American -- not 50 percent, but 90, 100 percent of Americans -- should be wearing a mask.

And just the other day, I saw six patients at work, Brianna, who all had cold-like symptoms, but ended up testing positive for COVID-19. So you know, even as a primary care physician, I tell patients, listen, you might think you have a cold, but you need to isolate yourself and get tested.

And then now, as people are preparing for Thanksgiving -- and I just want to make it clear that I don't recommend that anybody get together for Thanksgiving outside of people that live in the same household. I think that's also very clear, in that people think that, oh, I have two or three different bubbles, I can invite my friends, maybe a couple of friends from work for Thanksgiving? No, we should not be gathering in tight spaces, enclosed spaces. And everybody should be wearing a mask.

KEILAR: I mean, people just aren't listening to that, Doctor Matthew. I just interviewed a young woman whose brother, at 12 years old, is the youngest person to die of COVID in New Mexico. He did have pre- existing conditions, but there are a ton of children who do.

And her father is an essential worker, and he brought this home unknowingly to his family, because he has to go out and work, he's an essential worker and he has to earn money for the family. And even when we see stories like that, it seems like it's not getting through to people. Why?

MATTHEW: You know, I think that ultimately, Brianna, what people need to realize is that just because you don't know anyone who's had COVID- 19, doesn't necessarily mean that you won't get it. And also, I think what a lot of people don't realize, Brianna, is you suspect that a stranger might have COVID, but you don't suspect that your mother, your husband, your wife might actually bring COVID into the family.

And I think that that is especially what's important for us to know as people start celebrating holidays, that it might not be that stranger -- because you're staying away from the stranger -- but it might be that your son, coming back from college, or your granddaughter that wants to come and see Grandmother for Thanksgiving, that actually might have COVID. I just really wish, Brianna, that every time we spoke, we could

actually see the virus. Can you imagine how much easier it would be if people could see the virus and realize that so many people that you've been hanging out with actually could potentially transmit that virus to you?

KEILAR: Yes, it does not discriminate, right? And it is for a time invisible, and for a long time -- in some people -- invisible for the entirety of its progression through their bodies.

Dr. Matthew, great to see you, thanks for coming on.

[14:25:02]

MATTHEW: Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: Next, Kansas City is one of the many cities across the country that is putting new COVID restrictions in place, but one restaurant owner says it's about to create a disaster for his industry. I'm going to speak to him, just ahead.

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KEILAR: As coronavirus cases surge and states launch new restrictions to fight the virus' spread, businesses across the country are bracing for what is likely to be a long and challenging winter.

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