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Kansas City Restaurant Owner Warns of "Restaurant Bloodbath"; Fed Chair Criticizes Trump Administration for Ending Emergency Lending; Interview with Erin Brockovich, Environmental Activist; Sweden Sees 2nd Wave as Many People Resist COVID Advice. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired November 20, 2020 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: As coronavirus cases surge and states launch new restrictions to fight the virus' spread, businesses across the country are bracing for what is likely to be a long and challenging winter.

In Missouri, where cases are skyrocketing, new restrictions are being put in place today in Kansas City. And these will limit indoor gatherings and they'll force restaurants to close early.

Scott Anderson is the co-founder of Riley Drive Entertainment, which operates a handful of pubs and patio locations across the Kansas City metropolitan area.

Scott, you say the next of couple months will be a, quote, "restaurant bloodbath." Tell us what you're expecting.

SCOTT ANDERSON, CO-FOUNDER & PRESIDENT, RILEY DRIVE ENTERTAINMENT, INC: Brianna, thank you.

I can tell you what I'm expecting is, there's a large segment of the casual-dining restaurant business that is struggling. They barely made it through the first closures. We're faced again with another closure.

Not only is the closure coming much earlier than the one last year. Last year, we started closing in the middle of March. Right now, we're closing -- operating under restrictions at the end of November.

And I have no reasonable expectation that those restrictions will be lifted any time before March.

And a lot of restaurants barely made it through the first time. And that was with government aid.

We have no new government aid. We have restrictions. We have closures. I know a lot of my friends in the business, frankly, will not survive until March. KEILAR: So they not survive.

How do you balance -- how do you balance? The need obviously for businesses to survive, but then the awareness that there's airborne transmission indoors, and that indoor dining has been a big vector for the transmission of coronavirus.

How do you balance those things?

ANDERSON: Yes, Brianna, I don't want you or your listeners for a minute to think we don't take this seriously.

Restaurant owners generally, we believe in the virus. We believe it is serious. And we want to do everything we can to protect our customers. And we're trying to do that.

The reality is we've been labeled a super spreader. I don't necessarily agree with that. I think there's a lot of other activities going on. I know my kids' sports are still going on.

But for some reason, restaurants have taken the -- they're almost the pandemic scapegoat.

And I am not necessarily opposed -- I'm not opposed to all the restaurant restrictions. However, I am opposed to restricting business without some type of aid.

I think we saw the PPP money, on the first go-around, frankly, I think it went through a whole lot of businesses that's didn't need it.

The restaurant industry I think needs it as much as anybody. Hotels, entertainment venues and restaurants are the ones really struggling.

I think most restaurant owners, we're not saying we don't want to comply with the restrictions or the shutdowns. But we're saying, if we have to, give us some help.

KEILAR: Yes. We've seen studies that show there are some risks to indoor dining. There just is. When you --

I think you're right, Scott, that there are different things that can affect that. Ventilation is one. Whether people are wearing masks when they're not eating, but even just eating and having a mask off creates a vulnerability.

You make this very key point, which is, where he is the aid then?

If you are asking these small businesses, if you're asking the people who are employed in these small businesses, who could be, in many cases, living paycheck to paycheck, why isn't the government stepping in to make up that difference?

And what do you want lawmakers to know? What are you expecting from them here?

ANDERSON: Well, you've summarized my point exactly. Again, if shutdowns have to happen, so be it. I'm not opposed to that.

But there has to be some type of aid.

I mean, I would think another round of PPE, where you had to certify some type of revenue loss.

You didn't even have to certify on the first go-around. You had to agree that you had been impacted by COVID, whatever that meant.

But I think there needs to be some type of targeted relief package aimed at these businesses that are now being asked to shut down again.

And, this time, it's not a brief period of time. We're looking at the next four or five months living under these restrictions.

I'm telling you, a lot of people, a lot of my friends in the restaurant business, will not be here come March.

KEILAR: If they had that assistance, you would think they would survive?

ANDERSON: You know, yes, some would, some won't.

The fact of the matter is -- if you've ever owned a business, how do you survive a loss, a significant loss of revenue or no revenue for a five or six-month period?

As bad as it is in Kansas City -- you know, we have occupancy restrictions. We have to close at 10:00 p.m.

[14:35:03]

I mean, I can't imagine what the restaurant owners in Kansas City are facing -- or in New York City are faced with right now. They're not even operating.

Many other cities are not operating. And they're not operating for months on ends.

I don't know how you survive that. Even with aid, I think it is difficult to survive. But I think we have to try.

KEILAR: We have to try.

Scott Anderson, thank you so much for telling us what you're dealing with there in Kansas City. We appreciate it.

ANDERSON: Thank you very much.

KEILAR: President Trump expected to speak any moment at the White House. If he does take questions, we will bring that to you live.

Plus, we'll have details on why on earth the treasury secretary would ask the Federal Reserve to take back almost $500 billion that was earmarked to help small businesses, like the one you just saw, survive this pandemic. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:40:04]

KEILAR: All right, right now at the White House, President Trump is speaking in the briefing room about lowering prescription drug prices.

We're actually not going to bring this to you unless he starts answering questions.

He hasn't been seen or really -- he's been seen but he hasn't spoken publicly out loud here in about a week and a half.

So obviously, if he's asked some important questions at this time of a nation in crisis, as he's trying to mess with the election results, we'll bring that to you and we'll bring it to you quickly. Just a warning.

In the meantime, let's talk about something the Trump administration is doing right now. They're pulling back nearly $500 billion earmarked for businesses struggling in the pandemic.

Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin wants the Federal Reserve to return $455 billion of this critical lending money.

And that is being met by a rare rebuke from the central bank, which typically doesn't wade into this. It steers clear of politics. Clearly, this goes beyond politics.

In a statement, the Federal Reserve says it, quote, "would prefer that the full suite of emergency facilities established during the coronavirus pandemic continue to serve their important role as a backstop for our still strained and vulnerable economy."

This is such important stuff we're watching.

I want to bring in our CNN business editor-at-large, Richard Quest.

Richard, help us make sense. What the hell is Steve Mnuchin doing besides handicapping Joe Biden at the expense of American small businesses?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE & CNN HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Got it in one.

There's no reasonable or rational explanation for why this facility, which hadn't been used much, and was difficult to get up and running, but even so, there's no reason why he has asked for the money back.

Especially since there's unused money from CARES Act that he could have asked back instead.

No. This is all about politics.

This is about saying, I'm going to take away a program that might be useful in the future. But the new president would have to get reauthorized by Congress, bearing in mind, of course, what is happening in Georgia and the balance of power in the Senate.

So this is what this is about. There's no other reason.

And you can tell that, Brianna, by the way the Fed responded. We would prefer to have the full range available to us. This is a slap, saying don't take away the toys.

KEILAR: So Mnuchin is now defending the move, Richard. He says he is simply pushing it back to Congress to allocate the money.

Moments ago, the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, said he agrees with that.

I wonder, this to me wreaks of, say like the next president can access the checking account. Well, I'll just moving it to the savings account that you don't have access to.

QUEST: That's a brilliant way of putting it. I couldn't have put it better myself.

You're right. Because at the end of the day, if the money had stayed with this little used, very esoteric, but important lending facility, and if, suddenly, they would need it elsewhere, Congress could always apportion another $400 billion if it wishes to.

No. This is robbing Peter to pay Paul. In doing so, making sure Paul doesn't have the keys to the piggy bank.

There's no other logical, rational, reasonable explanation to do this.

Bearing in mind, by the way, these facilities are to expire at the end of the year anyway. So there would have to be a reauthorization process going forward.

It is mean-spirited and being seen for what it is.

KEILAR: Richard, thank you so much for dissecting it for us. We appreciate it.

And next, environmental activist, Erin Brockovich, pens an op-ed titled "Dear Joe Biden, Are You Kidding Me?". She will join us live to explain what has her so fired up over the president-elect's transition team.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:44:59]

KEILAR: President-Elect Joe Biden is pushing forward with his transition team, working fast with just 61 days until inauguration.

Today, he announced four staffers, which included the White House social secretary, Carlos Elizondo, who will only be the second man to ever hold that position.

Sources say cabinet-level positions will likely be announced next week.

But there's one person on the Biden transition team that has drawn outrage from environmentalists, and that's Michael McCabe, who was appointed to Biden's agency review team for the Environmental Protection Agency.

McCabe was once an aide to then-Senator Biden. He is a former deputy administrator of the EPA.

But after his time at the agency, he worked for the chemical company, DuPont, in the early 2000s, as they came under fire for the use of a toxic manmade chemical called PFOA, or C.A. It is one of the so-called forever chemicals.

DuPont used it in the making of Teflon. And studies have shown its links to various cancers.

And unsuspecting Americans, whose local water supplies were contaminated with PFOA, have paid a heavy price.

McCabe also worked on the deal that eventually phased out PFOA.

I want to bring in Erin Brockovich, the renowned environmental activist, whose involvement in the historic chemical contamination suit against Pacific Gas and Electric. She is joining us to talk more about this.

That was a record-breaking settlement, by the way. She is also the author of "Superman Is Not Coming." It's a book about how people can take action for cleaner water.

Erin, thank you for joining us.

We saw this op-ed in "The Guardian" that you wrote, "Dear Joe Biden, Are You Kidding Me?"

I should note, you just tweeted a happy birthday to the president- elect. So you're not someone who would consider yourself an enemy of Joe Biden's.

But you're really not happy with this person that you see on his transition team. Tell me why.

ERIN BROCKOVICH, ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVIST: Well, first of all, thank you for having me on.

KEILAR: Yes.

BROCKOVICH: And, no, I'm not an enemy of Joe Biden. I want the new administration, as many people do, to do well.

My job has been in the environmental field for over 20 years. And this one chemical you referenced earlier, PFOA; known as Teflon or C.A., is way more widespread and detrimental.

I think current administrations or incoming administrations may or may not have a grasp on it.

This chemical has affected California, Florida, Pennsylvania, Alabama, New Jersey, Ohio, North Carolina, Georgia, Minnesota, Arizona, Massachusetts, Illinois.

There's new startling information coming out.

Yes, it is in our well water. We have people across this country who are losing their well water. They're being (INAUDIBLE).

They can't drill new wells. Where are they supposed to get water? We can't get it out of the water. It is in our aquifer.

And I find it very alarming that Michael McCabe, who did work for DuPont, through strategic management, to not get regulations placed on this chemical, delayed us for a decade.

[14:50:11]

And now he's on a transition team. And guidance coming from him on this, I feel it boxes us in. And I'm very disturbed by that.

Look, all of these people, thousands and thousands of people were hurt by this. They've been harmed. We're not addressing this. There's no national oversight.

And I'm not going to be comfortable having somebody from DuPont, in a position being paid to cover it up, and now he's serving on a new transition team.

KEILAR: Look, we asked the Biden transition team about this.

They told us, in part, "Michael McCabe has vast experience and knowledge of the EPA to help the Biden/Harris administration address the challenges facing our country. McCabe has recused himself from any matters involving the Toxic Substances Controls Act."

Which is, of course, what governs PFOA and PFAs, which, that is sort of the umbrella term for PFOA, as well as other chemicals.

Does that give you any sort of comfort that he has recused himself from the Toxic Controls Act?

BROCKOVICH: Well, it -- not necessarily. Look, we don't have any national oversight or NCLs on this contamination that is so widespread.

And for me -- well, let me say this. I have never been against -- and I've often said we need to work with these companies. But we need transparency.

And I have five folks from a new administration that isn't politics as usual. And now it's been brought into the fold. And now it's said that he will recuse himself.

I don't think he should have any involvement and any say in communications about a chemical that is this widespread, that has been concealed for a long time, and giving me assurance or all the people assurance that, in fact, the right communication or message will be sent.

So it doesn't give me that much security. And --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Who would you want to see? Who would you want to see, Erin? What kind of people, in order to, say, have the knowledge of a chemical like this that is so widespread?

And actually, has gotten a lot of attention, I think, here in recent years, including a major Hollywood film, that we've gotten a better sense of kind of what the stakes are here.

What kind of folks would you want to see on the transition team, who could bring knowledge of how these companies work, who could bring knowledge of these chemicals to the next administration?

BROCKOVICH: The scientists. You know, I listen to the incoming administration about, we need to follow the science. We're all watching what's going on.

The science is in on this. Even Harvard has done research.

I'm very concerned with some Harvard research that indicates that this chemical is so widespread in the human body that it could reduce the efficacy of a COVID-19 vaccine.

What is that saying? We need to follow the science. I want science in there that gives the danger of this chemical, directing the EPA on how we move forward, first of all, on cleaning it up.

And understanding the science and the actual health impacts that this chemical has on this entire nation.

KEILAR: Look, it certainly is something -- this chemical is certainly something that requires a lot of attention. And we appreciate you discussing it with us.

Erin Brockovich, thank you so much.

BROCKOVICH: Thank you.

KEILAR: Still ahead, we have some new details about the Manhattan district attorney's investigation into the Trump Organization. Sources telling CNN it has now expanded to include millions of dollars in tax write-offs.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:56:19] KEILAR: Sweden, often touted by conservative in this country as a model for freedom during the pandemic, is putting new coronavirus restrictions in place.

Sweden managed to keep cases low, like its Nordic neighbors, for the first several months without a lockdown.

But as you can see, there has been a huge surge. So Sweden's prime minister is banning public gatherings of more than eight people for the next month.

He's urging folks to stay away from gyms and libraries while restricting access to bars. They can no longer serve alcohol after 10:00 p.m.

But as CNN's Phil Black reports, many people there are ignoring the new guidelines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC)

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A gym in central Stockholm. Sweden's government says, this is dangerous, but it won't not shut them down.

And those, working hard at this socially-distanced class, don't want to stop.

ASA LARSSON, GYM INSTRUCTOR: Workout, for me, is all I got right now. So I need to -- I need to do this, as long as I can, and for all the members as well. They are so happy that we're still doing it.

BLACK: Perhaps they would feel differently if they saw this.

Upsala Hospital, the ICU, a ventilated patient is being prepped for helicopter transfer to another facility with more free beds.

(on camera) Are you surprised that you are already having to double capacity?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not surprised, no. Yes, we expected it.

BLACK (voice over): After a quiet summer, the coronavirus is again surging in Sweden.

(on camera): This is not like the spring peak. It's nowhere near as intense yet but it feels, for the staff here, so familiar. They are tired and frustrated because there is a sense that this could have been avoided.

(voice over): A powerful second wave hasn't changed the essence of Sweden's distinctive approach to slowing the spread. Still no forced lockdown, few rules, mostly just advice on social distancing, with an emphasis on personal responsibility.

On the front line, they say, it is not enough.

DR. RAFAEL KAWATI, HEAD OF INTENSIVE CARE, UPSALA UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: We need to put some, you know, consequences for not checking this. Doing this.

BLACK: Enforcement.

DR. KAWATI: Yes, enforcement.

BLACK (voice-over): Sweden's official list of recommended behavior is tougher now. It reads more like a voluntary lockdown, discouraging all nonessential mixing.

DR. ANDERS TEGNELL, SWEDISH STATE EPIDEMIOLOGIST: Can you hear me?

BLACK: But Anders Tegnell, the architect of Sweden's approach, admits too many are not following his advice.

(on camera) So that's the key difference. Your recommendations aren't enforceable.

TEGNELL: So far, I mean, during the spring this works really well. We managed to have people to stop meeting each other, to create extent.

If we can't get back to that level or our advice, I think we can handle the situation and also during this fall.

BLACK: Flex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

BLACK: Make him look angry.

Tegnell is lionized here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has been our like national hero in this crisis. He had put out guidelines that has kept our freedom.

BLACK (voice-over): There is broad support for the country's policies, even though officials admit Sweden failed its elderly. Almost 90 percent of people who have died, so far, we're over 70.

And Sweden's total death toll is more than four times the combined figure of its Nordic neighbors, all of which embraced tougher measures.

ANDERS EIDSVIK, COVID PATIENT: Hello.

BLACK: But even among the sick, he made advocates for prioritizing freedom.

Anders Eidsvik knows the suffering that COVID-19 can cause.

EIDSVIK: It shouldn't be too easy to close down the society, I believe.

(MUSIC)

BLACK: Sweden is sticking with the model that relies on consent instead of legal force. But it's now asking people to voluntarily give up more than ever before. And it's not yet clear they're willing to do it.

[15:00:03]

Phil Black, CNN, Stockholm.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: And our special coverage continues now with Brooke Baldwin.