Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump's GOP Wall Of Support Continues To Crack; U.S. Surpasses 12 Million Cases As Thanksgiving Nears; Trump Legal Losses Pile Up As Baseless Election Attacks Continue; Pandemic Forces Thousands To Line Up For Food; Hillary Clinton, More Than Just A Former First Lady. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 22, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Top of the hour. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Erica hill in New York in for Ana Cabrera.

The presidential election was called two weeks ago, and still the lion's share of rank and file Republicans in this country choose to either dispute the results or at least publicly hold out hope that the president will somehow prevail.

But let's be clear, he will not. The American people spoke with their votes. Joe Biden will be inaugurated at noon on January 20th. This weekend though, some influential Republicans now speaking out, urging their party to see the facts and to deal with reality. Among them, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. Here he is this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ): What's happened here is quite frankly the conduct of the president's legal team has been a national embarrassment.

I have been a supporter of the president, I voted for him twice, but elections have consequences. And we cannot continue to act as if something happened here that didn't happen.

The country is what has to matter the most. As much as I'm a strong Republican and I love my party, it's the country that has to come first.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Chris Christie, a staunch ally of the president's, also today, another Republican congressman from Michigan, the second GOP lawmaker from that state, saying the numbers do not lie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. FRED UPTON (R-MI): The voters spoke. And here again in Michigan, it's not a razor thin margin, it's 154,000 votes. You've got to let those votes stand.

154,000 votes is too many to overcome. I mean, it's over.

The longer this lasts, languishes, the time then escapes from us from actually seeing a peaceful transition to the next administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The Republican senator from Pennsylvania, Pat Toomey, also seeing the election results clearly this weekend after a federal judge shut down a Trump campaign attempt to disenfranchise millions of voters in Pennsylvania, this from Senator Toomey. Quote, I congratulate President-elect Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris on their victory. They're both dedicated public servants and I will be praying for them and for our country.

The facts are the facts here. The nationwide votes speak for themselves, and whether every Republican says it out loud or not, the next U.S. president has been decided. Perhaps a more pressing issue right now is stopping the virus that has now infected 12 million Americans. It's killed more than 256,000. And denying the reality of the election means not only denying the incoming president a smooth transition, but it also means denying the American people a chance for that team to begin addressing the pandemic.

We have a team of reporters covering the Biden transition, President Trump's latest efforts as well to deny reality to sow doubt and division.

I want to begin with CNN's Jeremy Diamond at the White House. And, Jeremy, we start with you with breaking news. The president's legal losses are piling up, and now, the president's lawyers are trying to distance themselves from someone who, by all accounts, was a member of the president's legal team, even according to the president.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I don't even know where to begin with this one, Erica. I mean, this is just the latest twist in what seems to be a slow motion train wreck that keeps getting worse and worse. The Trump campaign is not only racking up legal losses by the day, but now they are also trying to claim that a member of their legal team is not actually a member of their legal team.

About a week ago, President Trump announced Rudy Giuliani was going to be taking the helm of his legal team along with Jenna Ellis and Sidney Powell. But now, Giuliani and Jenna Ellis, who appeared alongside Powell just a few days ago at a news conference at the RNC headquarters, they now say that Sidney Powell is not a member of the legal team.

Let me read you the statement that they just put out from Trump campaign. They say, Sidney Powell is practicing law on her own. She is not a member of the Trump legal team. She is also not a lawyer for the president in his personal capacity. Again, Powell appeared alongside both of them just a few days ago, and Giuliani at that news conference said, quote, I'm in charge of this investigation with Sidney and the people you see there. Now, the question is why are they distancing themselves from Powell. She has been peddling a number of conspiracy theories about the 2020 election. Some of them very similar to the conspiracy theories that Giuliani and Ellis and the president have also been peddling, but Powell has certainly gone further. She's accused the CIA, she's accused Hugo Chavez, the late Venezuelan leader, as well Georgia's Republican governor all of being involved in rigging the 2020 election.

Of course, these claims have no basis in fact or reality, but nonetheless, for days on end, she was making these claims and it didn't seem to bother the Trump campaign legal team.

[18:05:01]

But somewhere along the lines, it seems she may have crossed the line, even for the president's attorneys.

But, again, regardless of who is on the team, the legal efforts aren't going anywhere fast. In fact, they're hitting dead end after dead end. The latest of which was a federal court in Pennsylvania just yesterday, Erica, which dealt pretty much a death knell to the president's efforts to overturn the results in that key battleground state.

HILL: Yes, yet another head-scratching moment. Jeremy, thank you.

Speaking of what we're looking at, let's go now to CNN's Kristen Holmes. So, speaking of these legal battles, we know the state of Michigan was set to certify its election results tomorrow. Now, we're learning though this could all be in doubt because of the state's board of canvassers. What's happening there?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is really extraordinary, not something that even the state legislature knows how to handle right now because there's really no precedent for it. So, essentially, just to break down what is supposed to happen, there's a board of canvassers, four people, two Democrats and two Republicans. And they vote at the end of the day, the end of the election, to certify that election. This is normally just a box that you check. It's a clerical process. Now, it is not.

We have heard from one Republican congressman who has spoken to the Republican, one of them, on the board of canvassers, and says that, as of late week, this Republican was expected not to vote to certify. So the big question now is what exactly happens next. Will this other Republican decide to follow suit and not certify this election? Now, if that happens, this will lead to a 2-2 deadlock/. And there's a lot of questions as to what exactly this means. What will the state actually allow?

Now, the reason being that this one Republican has said he is expected not to certify is that he wants to wait for an audit of Wayne County. Wayne County is home of Detroit, largest county in Michigan. It is unclear if that's actually how this process would play out. Typically, you would have a certification, and then you would have

some sort of audit afterwards. So this change in the role here pushing the certification possibly, I will say, the Republican secretary of state said that if it was to deadlock 2-2, that it could lead to chaos and potentially a constitutional crisis.

Now, I also want to note one more wrench that's being thrown into all of this. You had Jeremy mentioning this case in Pennsylvania that was dismissed with a blistering decision. Well, now the Trump campaign is saying that they're going to appeal that. So what we're digging into is how is that going to affect tomorrow's certification in Pennsylvania.

We know that at least in Philadelphia, it's done there county by county, they are going to wait until there is no pending litigation, but, of course, this is all developing. So we're looking to see if this is going to actually impact Pennsylvania's certification as well.

HILL: It is really something, and thank you for staying on top of all of it, because we need you, Kristen, helping us to walk through it, because it is changing fast and furiously, as we know.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is following the Biden transition. So, Arlette, the president-elect continuing on the road, as we know, to the transition, to the inauguration on January 20th. And we have learned today he's expected to announce the first members of his cabinet tomorrow, so what do we know about who those picks may be or the positions he may announce?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica, we haven't gotten a full readout of which positions Biden will be announcing on Tuesday, but this is all part of President-elect Joe Biden's effort to show that he is undeterred by the fact that the president has yet to concede in this election or that the GSA administrator has yet to ascertain Biden as the winner. And so what he's doing this week is putting forth his first cabinet nominees to show that he is taking those steps to form the government that will lead the early days of his administration.

Now, Biden has indicated that he's already made one selection, and that is secretary of treasury. He has not given a name just yet, but one of the leading contenders for that job is Lael Brainard of the Federal Reserve. There is also a chance that Biden could announce his secretary of state as soon as this week. And there have been quite a few contenders under consideration there, including Tony Blinken, Susan Rice and Senator Chris Coons.

But Biden's team is also warning that there is one element of their nomination and confirmation process that is jeopardized by the fact that the GSA administrator has not ascertained Biden as president- elect, and that is FBI background checks. They cannot be conducted on these nominees, and that is a critical component as these nominees will start going through the Senate confirmation process.

And, today, you also heard Biden's team really keeping up their public pressure campaign on the GSA to ascertain the election. Take a listen to what one of Biden's advisers said earlier this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BEDINGFIELD, SENIOR ADVISER, BIDEN-HARRIS TRANSITION TEAM: Litigation is not a panacea. It is not going to suddenly move things forward. What will move things forward is the GSA administrator signing the piece of paper.

[18:10:03]

The statute says that it is her obligation to ascertain the apparent winner of the election. I don't think there's anybody in the world who would suggest, except maybe the folks around Donald Trump, that Joe Biden was not the apparent winner of this election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: And tomorrow here in Wilmington, Delaware, President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris will be having a virtual meeting with several of the mayors from across the country. This is all part of Biden's efforts to speak to state and local officials on issues like COVID-19, as he is showing he is right at work as president-elect.

HILL: Arlette Saenz, Kristen Holmes, Jeremy Diamond, thank you all for your reporting tonight.

Coming up, the CDC urging Americans, as you know, not to travel over Thanksgiving due to the pandemic, the real question though is are Americans listening? That's next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

HILL: The CDC, as you know, advising against holiday travel. One official stating clearly, travel and mixing households brings an increased chance of one of your loved ones becoming sick and then being hospitalized and dying. And yet, after months apart, many Americans are still on the move.

CNN's Natasha Chen reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARTHUR BRELAND, PASTOR, UNITED CHURCH: We know there are so many people that are going through dark times right now.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): After almost a year of dark times, there's an understandable urge to be together for Thanksgiving.

KATHY FAYNE, RESIDENT, DEKALB COUNTY, GEORGIA: My father was in Memphis. He's 83. CHEN: But the risk is huge.

FAYNE: So I'm struggling with going to see him because my mother passed earlier this year, so I'm struggling right now, trying to decide if I'm going or staying home.

CHEN: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say stay home. CDC experts now saying most coronavirus infections are spread by people with no symptoms. And the spread is worse than ever. The U.S. saw more than 100,000 new COVID-19 cases every day for at least the last 19 days. New cases this month already total about a quarter of all U.S. coronavirus cases during the whole pandemic.

One of the early cases was Pastor Arthur Breland.

BRELAND: This is the worst experience I ever had in my life.

CHEN: On March 25th, he woke up in a sweat.

BRELAND: I basically was trying to rush to the refrigerator to put my head in the freezer because I was so hot. And then that's all I remember. And my wife waking me up a couple moments after that and then being rushed to the E.R.

CHEN: After 12 days in the hospital and another month-and-a-half recovering, he knows firsthand how real the threat is. This year, his congregation is having more events outdoors. They will not be having their annual celebration. And Breland says he won't be visiting family across the country.

Eslene Richmond Shockley is also foregoing her family's usual 50- person gathering. That's to protect the family after they already lost her 83-year-old uncle who, she says, died from COVID-19 in April.

ESLENE RICHMOND SHOCKLEY, FOUNDER, CARING FOR OTHERS, INC.: He wasn't feeling well and he went to the hospital and he never came back home.

CHEN: Shockley runs Caring for Others, a charity organization that held its annual Thanksgiving food drive Saturday. She honored her uncle, Walter Green, who would usually be present at the vegetable station.

SHOCKLEY: And this is the first year in 20 years that my uncle will not be here to help us to distribute the collard greens.

Because that was someone I could pick up the phone and call, but that someone that is gone.

CHEN: So she says, to make sure she can still see her other loved ones next Thanksgiving, she won't be seeing them this Thanksgiving.

SHOCKLEY: Life is precious. Let us try to save each other.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHEN (on camera): And we can tell that many families across the country have decided not to travel. Here at Atlanta Airport, at the Hartsfield-Jackson Airport, we're seeing a third fewer travelers than there typically would be during Thanksgiving week. And we have been seeing that's it's really easy for people to walk straight on through security when in years past at this point, there would be lines to where we're standing right here. So it seems many families are heeding the warnings of the CDC and Dr. Fauci. Erica?

HILL: Yes, it's the year of Zoom Thanksgiving, right? Natasha Chen, thank you.

Well, as people continue to weigh just what they should do for Thanksgiving, perhaps it's a good time to think about the frontline health care workers who could take the brunt of their actions.

CNN Medical Analyst Megan Ranney is an Emergency Physician at Brown University. She's the co-Founder of getusppe.org. Always good to have you with us.

So just give me a sense, as you are moving into this, not just this holiday week but, honestly, the holiday season, right? You and your colleagues know that you've got a triple threat coming your way. You have the rising cases that we see. We are in cold and flu season, and we have the holiday upon us. How do you prepare for that?

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: There's almost no way to prepare right now, Erica. We're just kind of holding on, and hoping that Americans make the right choice this week. You know, we're going into work, many of us, on Thanksgiving Day to take care of the sick COVID patients and the patients that are in the hospital for all the other normal reasons, like heart attacks and strokes and cancer.

And for those of us who are lucky enough to not have to work on Thanksgiving, I know of pretty much no one that's planning to spend Thanksgiving inside with folks that are not part of their household.

We're doing that because we're scared. We see that our hospitals are on the brink of being overwhelmed right now, and we know that those infections that get transmitted during Thanksgiving dinner are going to show up two or three weeks out, and are going to completely swamp our health care system.

We're already sending patients to pediatric hospitals who belong in adult hospitals across the country. We're already running out of nurses and respiratory therapists.

[18:15:02]

We are terrified, and we really can't plead strongly enough with Americans to spend Thanksgiving at home.

HILL: Yes, it is -- we can't hear it enough from you, quite honestly, I think, that plea, because you are seeing it firsthand.

What about PPE? You started getusppe.org. Where do we stand right now? Is that a concern as we move into this next phase? RANNEY: PPE is still, unfortunately, still difficult to obtain for many health care workers across the country. A lot of the big hospitals have filled the immediate shortage, but even they are looking forward and seeing with this surge that they're going to run out of a lot of the most critical things, like N95 masks and isolation gowns. So many big hospitals are buying reusable elastomeric masks for their workers.

But the smaller hospitals, the nursing homes, the home health care aids, the clinics, they are still short on PPE. I have friends who have been using the same N95 mask for one, two, or even three months despite the fact we know that it stops working after a couple days of use. We are facing massive shortages that are only going to get worse. There's still no significant domestic production, and my colleagues are concerned about their own health.

HILL: It's amazing that this is where we are on November 22nd. And we have to acknowledge that fact for how many months we -- you, I should say, maybe we as a country, but you specifically, have been battling this on the frontlines.

There's also the mental health aspect to this, and that's something we often talk about at the holidays, right, how difficult holidays can be for people. I understand that that is weighing on people's decisions. They're concerned about their loved ones who may be alone, who they haven't seen in months. They're having a hard time that they haven't seen people.

But you must also be dealing with a lot as someone who is on the frontlines watching your colleagues. I mean, I have to say, other doctors that I speak with fairly regularly, have told me they're really reaching a breaking point and they're concerned.

RANNEY: That's exactly right, Erica. My texts and my direct messages on Twitter and Facebook are full of messages from friends telling me that they're scared, they're exhausted, they're tired, they're afraid they're not going to make it through this winter season. You can only see so much death and dying before you start to break.

And I think one of the toughest things right now is that we're taking care of these critically ill patients who are deathly afraid themselves, and then we walk outside of the hospital, and have people act like it's no big deal. We have people refuse to wear masks or tell us that we're somehow making this up in order to make money. It's really frustrating. And I do worry that we're going to lose not just doctors but also nurses and techs and other frontline health care workers.

And, listen, I get it that we're exhausted but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. There are vaccines coming. We just have to hold on a little bit longer. This is not the holiday to let loose. Let's make it through this winter season. Help protect our health care workers and each other. And we will have a better spring.

HILL: Dr. Megan Ranney, thank you, as always.

RANNEY: Thank you.

HILL: Up next, the president's legal losses piling up as he continues to deny reality, to deny the election results, to deny the will of the American voter. So what is the long-term strategy here? That's ahead.

But, first, CNN's Christine Romans has this week's Before the Bell.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Erica. It's a tale of two realities for Wall Street. There's optimism over the coming vaccines, but at the same time, COVID cases are exploding. Cities and states are implementing new restrictions, and there's no sign of any rescue package from Washington.

The push and pull of those two forces could mean stocks will remain volatile in the near term, so investors might be grateful for the short week. U.S. markets are closed Thursday for Thanksgiving and close early Friday. That's Black Friday, of course, in a normal year, traditionally, the start of the holiday shopping season, because of the pandemic, don't expect to see pictures like this from years' past of long lines and crowded stores. Instead, analysts expect a much bigger presence of shopping online.

Deals also started much earlier this year. The National Retail Federation predicts the average consumer will spend about $997 this holiday, including $650 on gifts alone. The overall spending number is down about $50 from last year.

But economists are also warning about K-shaped holiday spending, that means wealthy customers will splurge while lower income Americans pull back.

In New York, I'm Christine Romans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

HILL: 30, that is the number of cases the Trump campaign and its allies have either lost or withdrawn since Election Day. Last night saw perhaps the biggest defeat yet. A federal judge in Pennsylvania ruling the president's attorneys failed to provide any evidence of rampant corruption. The judge writing, quote, the court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations. The operative complaint and supported by -- unsupported rather by evidence.

Well, today, a few Republicans have begun calling on the president to concede, the president's close ally, former Governor Chris Christie, offering even stronger words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE: What's happened here is, quite frankly, the conduct of the president's legal team has been a national embarrassment.

[18:30:02] I have been a supporter of the president's. I voted for him twice. But elections have consequences. And we cannot continue to act as if something happened here that didn't happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Joining me now to discuss, Democratic strategist Paul Begala, and staff writer for the "Dispatch," Sarah Isgur.

It's good to have both of you here. So as we look at what's happening, right, we talk regularly about the cases that the president keeps losing. We talk about judges pointing to a lack of evidence, but I don't know that we're talking enough about what the Trump campaign is seeking through these lawsuits.

So the Pennsylvania judge, just a little bit more of what he wrote last night, quote, "Plaintiffs asked this court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters. This court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated."

Paul, the president's team is arguing here that they believe that because he believes that there are some instances of fraud, that every vote should be thrown out. So in order to win these cases and stay in office, he would have to disenfranchise millions of voters, and that would, Paul, include people who voted for President Trump.

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. It's an incoherent position, and it's frankly very much against American democracy. Nobody likes losing. And I understand if the president is deflated and defeated. He lost. But we cannot allow him to be delusional and dictatorial. He can't throw out the votes. He cannot be allowed to throw out the votes of millions and millions of Americans, whether it's in Pennsylvania which he lost overwhelmingly, or Michigan, which he lost by 146,000.

Look, he lost, it happens. The fact that his party -- I saw Governor Christie's comments and I was heartened by them, but he is in the tiny minority in his party. It is time for them to step up and acknowledge the reality. This is not close. There's no grand conspiracy from the late Hugo Chavez to take over the election machines. It's just preposterous, and they need to put America first.

There are a lot of soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines, Coast Guard, who do a lot more for our country than these politicians ever will. And the politicians, the least they can do is stand up for our Constitution.

HILL: Sarah, in terms of facing the reality, too, arguing widespread voter fraud, I guess in some ways helps the president, right, shore up his support. That being said, how does it help the Republican Party? I mean, it certainly doesn't help Americans as a whole, but how does it help the Republican Party at large get voters to the polls? How does it help them in elections to come? SARAH ISGUR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: A few things. First, I was the

national elections day operations director for Mitt Romney. I have been a lawyer on plenty of recounts. And just to agree with Paul for a second. But also, Paul, that's not even an accurate remedy. You know, if you find fraud, you have to show that it would have affected the outcome of the election, and then your options are to redo the election, like they did in that congressional race down in North Carolina, where the Republican campaign manager was indicted for fraud.

There is no world in which you simply just don't count those ballots. That's not a remedy that you can seek at law which is basically what that judge said on top of the fact that what they're saying in press conferences isn't what they're putting on filings, isn't what they're saying in court, because there are consequences for lying in court.

To your point, Erica, though, as far as Republican voter base, look, I think that, like for instance, in Georgia, you're not actually going to see this affect turnout because most of the voters there who voted for Trump or even those who were Republicans who didn't vote for Trump, they see these Senate races as something totally different, and so I don't think it's going to depress turnout even though it's an odd message to say that your vote didn't count.

And I think it is why the Trump campaign is distancing themselves tonight from Sydney Powell, all of a sudden saying she's not part of the legal team despite having her appear at a press conference three days ago with the legal team, many tweets saying she's on the legal team. I think that is related to Georgia.

The question for me in Georgia is, will it actually help Democrats increase turnout in Georgia, something that I think the Republicans felt like they had a good handle on? I think they think that they're walking into victories in those two Senate races, but the president certainly isn't helping. The question is how much is he hurting.

HILL: Well, I think you bring up a great point, right? Who would the president help more, who could he potentially be helping more? So you look at it from the angle of all of these lawsuits that we're talking about and the narrative the president is putting out there, and then there's the actual president himself.

I mean, Paul, he doesn't seem to be going much of anywhere except the golf course these days but if he did decide he wanted to go to Georgia, to Sarah's point, who benefits more from President Trump showing up in advance of these Senate races to try to drum up the Republican vote? Democrats or Republicans?

BEGALA: Well, he did just lose in Georgia. Narrowly, but he lost. And that's a bad sign for him and his team.

[18:35:00]

Also, we have seen in other elections, in the Kentucky governor's race, where he campaigned very hard for the Republican governor, Matt Bevin. The governor lost, even though Trump campaigned for him. In Louisiana, a red Republican state, he campaigned for the Republican candidate for governor and lost. So that is not -- that support he has, which is really strong, although not a majority in Georgia, is I think not transferrable. And I do think it hurts.

Look, you win a runoff by unifying your party and motivating your base. And so when Trump supporters or possible legal advisers, not quite sure what Miss Powell's job is, if they're saying that somehow the Republican governor of Georgia and the Republican secretary of state can't run an honest election but go out and vote in the next election, that's a very mixed message. I do think a lot of Republicans may stay home. I wouldn't blame them if they did.

HILL: Paul Begala, Sarah Isgur, great to have you both here today. Thank you.

BEGALA: Thanks, Erica.

HILL: Americans desperate for help, but is anyone in Washington listening? Doesn't really feel that way, does it? The Trump administration just pulled back billions in aid meant for small businesses. As for that stimulus deal, still nowhere to be found as the need continues to grow across the nation. So is there any real help on the horizon?

We'll tackle that, next, live, in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:23]

HILL: From the beginning, this pandemic has impacted the economy. As the cases, though, spike dramatically, we're starting to see more of that impact in ways that we haven't before. One example, lines for food distribution.

This is a Thanksgiving food giveaway at Tyler Perry Studios in Atlanta. Our affiliate WSB reporting thousands showed up for food boxes. The line itself stretched for five miles. Food supplies running out before 10:00 a.m.

And look at this scene out of Los Angeles yesterday. The food lines across the country are growing. We are seeing this in city after city, in multiple states, and this is not just about Thanksgiving meals. Again, this is about feeding your family on a daily basis.

Former Labor secretary Robert Reich joining me now to discuss. He's also the author of "The System Who Rigged It, How We Fix It."

So we need to fix this right now, right? And this crisis is not getting any better. When we look at it, the people in those lines, they don't care for the most part, at least the ones that we've spoken to, they don't care about the politics. They're tired of the politics in Washington. What they need is help. So strip the politics away for me. How do we fix this?

ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: Well, Erica, the coronavirus is the biggest impediment to getting help to anybody, to getting the economy back on track, to getting people jobs. Unless or until we get some control over the virus, it's going to be very, very hard to turn this around.

Now, in the meantime, people do certainly need and deserve help. And the problem is that this is where politics intrudes because millions of Americans right now are in danger of losing their homes or their rental units, and millions are also in danger of being hungry and their children are in danger of being hungry.

I mean, we haven't seen this kind of crisis in the United States, certainly in my lifetime. And we have got to do something about it. There is a bill that has been on the desk of Mitch McConnell since May, with regard to providing relief beyond the kind of relief that was provided in the CARES Act early in March. McConnell has not done anything about it.

We are going to see a week from tomorrow a kind of final showdown because Mitch McConnell and Republicans get back to the Senate. There is about a week left between when they can act and when it's going to be too late. This window is closing very, very rapidly.

HILL: Speaking of windows that are closing, as we look at what happened at the tail end of last week, Secretary Mnuchin pulling back hundreds of billions of dollars, right, that were earmarked for the Fed, and the Fed speaking out very clearly, right, and uncharacteristically. This is money for struggling businesses. This was a move more by all accounts to hurt the incoming Biden administration. But just put in perspective for us if you could the reality that what this does is it's really hurting the American people.

REICH: Well, it hurts -- the first obvious victims here are people who have small businesses or state and municipal governments. People who were hoping that the Fed would be able to, as a last ditch effort, we're talking about the final safety net, be able to provide some funding if there were no other sources of funding. And what is actually happening, Mnuchin is pulling the rug out from the Fed.

Jerome Powell at the Fed is saying, you know, I wish you wouldn't do this because we do need this kind of flexibility, and Mnuchin is sticking to a technicality and is saying no, we are not going to allow. And this is significant money. This is about $540 billion that will not be available, and the Fed lending window, therefore, is shutting.

HILL: As we look at what can be done, whether it's in this lame duck session, which not many people are holding out hope for, or perhaps when there's a new administration in January, is there a country or countries that you can point to that you think have successfully tackled the virus while also recognizing the needs that come with it from an economic standpoint, the needs of the people?

REICH: Well, there are a number of countries, Erica, that actually have done a much better job, both on the pandemic and on the economy than we have. I mean, everybody from New Zealand through South Korea through Europe. Most European countries, although they are now struggling with another resurgence of the virus, they have done it and handled it pretty well in terms of closing businesses, but providing people with enough money to survive when businesses are closed.

That's the key to it. They understand that it's not a tradeoff between business and the economy on one hand and the coronavirus on the other.

[18:45:08]

It really is, you can't do one without the other. You've got to control the coronavirus, shut down these businesses, and provide people with the ways of surviving during the interim.

HILL: Yes. You know, it's interesting. Seems pretty simple. We know what needs to be done. We just need it to happen. Really appreciate your insight, as always. Thank you.

REICH: Really an aggravating thing. You started this interview talking about politics, let's get away from politics. There are literally millions of Americans right now on the verge of serious hardship, and we've got to put politics aside and get on with what has to be done.

HILL: Yes, you're absolutely right. Thank you again.

And stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:50:31]

HILL: Presidential candidate, secretary of State, U.S. senator, Hillary Rodham Clinton has held all of those roles during her career. But before all of that, she was of course first lady.

Tonight on our CNN Original Series, "FIRST LADIES," we take a close look at Clinton's time in the White House. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In 1995, the first lady is invited to speak at the United Nations Conference on Women. No one, least of all Hillary, is surprised when some in the administration try to block her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: U.S.-China relations are deteriorating.

MELANNE VERVEER, CHIEF OF STAFF TO THE FIRST LADY: Those were those within the government who felt she might set our China foreign policy back. She might create some kind of contra-tone. Do we really want this to happen?

LISSA MUSCATINE, HILLARY CLINTON'S FORMER SPEECHWRITER: She said, well, if I can't go as first lady, I'll just get on a plane and go as a private citizen. We're rolling our eyes going that is not clearly going to happen.

PATTI SOLIS DOYLE, SENIOR ADVISER TO THE FIRST LADY: She said, excuse me my French, (EXPLETIVE DELETED) them. I'm going. Not as first lady. I'm going as Hillary Clinton. Here's my passport. Here's my credit card. Book me a flight. And I said, um, OK.

(LAUGHTER)

DOYLE: I'll do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Joining us now, CNN contributor and the author of "First Women: The Grace and Power of America's Modern First Ladies," Kate Andersen Brower.

Kate, always good to see you. So Hillary Clinton as we know became more involved obviously in policymaking than any first lady before her. She had an office in the West Wing. Bill Clinton even ran on the slogan, buy one, get one free. It turned out, though, that that was really controversial. There was a lot of pushback. Just remind us how it played out for Hillary Clinton.

KATE ANDERSEN BROWER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I mean, she came into the White House an optimist, really. She thought that she could play a major policy role. She had this West Wing office. She led the health care overhaul which failed. And she saw that people didn't really -- weren't ready for a first lady to be an activist first lady. So I think it really crushed a lot of those dreams.

And, you know, her friends told her she was just as smart as her husband. You know, she could run for office herself one day, clearly, she did becoming a first woman to be on a major party ticket as a presidential candidate. So, I mean, to me what this episode shows is you get to see a bit of who she really is.

You know, she often says she's the most famous person you don't really know. And I think that you get to see a little behind the curtain of what she's like as a human being. So it's really fascinating.

HILL: I have to say, I love this series. So looking forward to this one as well. You know, people do have a very visceral reaction to Hillary Clinton. Whether it's warranted or not. There was a fair amount of scandal. She was tied to a few scandals, I should, during their time in the White House. There was travelgate, there was Whitewater that also came up. I mean, how much of the criticism in terms of Hillary Clinton and these scandals was warranted?

ANDERSEN BROWER: It's -- that's a very tough question. I mean, I think she had obviously so much baggage going to the 2016 election and a lot of it came from those early years, in the early '90s, you know, Whitewater, travelgate, you name it, well before Monica Lewinsky. When she went to Beijing to give that famous speech where she said human rights are women's rights and women's rights are human rights which was an incredible moment to do this in Beijing.

That was in 1995. And reporters who covered the Clinton administration said she was so much happier getting out of Washington. There was a 200-mile kind of limit where as soon as she was outside of this D.C. area, she could be herself. When she was here, she felt under siege and attacked. And so she built up these walls and I think that's why people really didn't get to see who the real Hillary Clinton is.

She's got a great sense of humor. She's very empathetic. I mean, all of these things -- I think she was never able to break through and, like you said, she's an incredibly controversial figure.

HILL: Kate Andersen Brower, always great to talk with you. Thank you.

ANDERSEN BROWER: Thanks, Erica.

HILL: And be sure to tune in for this all new episode of the CNN Original Series, "FIRST LADIES." It airs right here tonight at 10:00 p.m.

Thanks so much for spending part of your Sunday evening with me. I'm Erica Hill in New York. My colleague, Wolf Blitzer, picks up CNN's coverage in a special edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM" right after this quick break.

[18:55:17]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.