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Most Pennsylvania Counties to Certify Election Results Today; Trump Campaign Cuts Ties with Conspiracy Theorist Lawyer Sidney Powell; Colleges Students Traveling Home Amid Surge in Virus Cases. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired November 23, 2020 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's election certification day in Pennsylvania. At least three counties, including Allegheny County, which is home to Pittsburgh, have certified the results so far this morning. Most counties in the commonwealth are expected to sign off on final election results today, normally a routine, administrative task.

But nothing, of course, is normal or routine these days. President Trump's legal team is doing everything possible to overturn the result, which has Joe Biden winning by 80,000 votes.

Now, they are appealing a judge's scathing decision from over the weekend which threw out the lawsuit seeking to invalidate hundreds of thousands of votes in the commonwealth. So what is going to happen today?

A bipartisan show of force joining me right now, Republican Philadelphia City Commissioner Al Schmidt and Pennsylvania's Democratic lieutenant governor, John Fetterman. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being here.

Today is a huge day. Lieutenant Governor how, is today going to end?

LT. GOV. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): Well, the way it started, with Joe Biden winning Pennsylvania. Our electoral votes are going to go to him. And the Trump campaign is going to perhaps continue to lie about the conditions on the ground. But it's not going to change anything. You know, everyone knows how this movie is going to end up to, and including the president.

BOLDUAN: Commissioner, this Giuliani effort is one effort, then there's another state effort to stop certification from happening. Is -- are these challenges impacting your willingness to certify results in Philadelphia today?

AL SCHMIDT (R), PHILADELPHIA CITY COMMISSIONER: Well, let me start by saying happy certification day here in Pennsylvania because Philadelphia County will be certifying the election results later today. There's been no shortage of litigation. Given its lack of merit, one can only assume it's intended to try to delay or disrupt things. But that is obviously not going to happen.

BOLDUAN: So, Commissioner, just really quickly because there's been a lot of question, Philadelphia will be certifying by the end of today?

SCHMIDT: Yes, I expect so, we will.

BOLDUAN: Lieutenant Governor, the appeal by -- I guess just on that, what does that mean, because this has been a long haul? So Philadelphia and all of the counties will be certified by the end of the day, is what I assume, Lieutenant Governor?

FETTERMAN: Well, look, I wouldn't (INAUDIBLE). We are --

BOLDUAN: Go ahead, Lieutenant Governor.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I want to talk to the other lawsuit. Let's assume one in a 10,000 chance it's successful in failing to certify. Our legislature terms expire on November 30th. We won't have a legislature, our entire state house will not be able to take office and half our Senate, which are both controlled by Republicans.

So if they want to strike at the heart of Joe Biden and Democrats, they are literally dismantling their power structure within Pennsylvania. It's a circular firing squad. It's utterly illogical. But I think that really is the (INAUDIBLE) of how effective they've been throughout this whole case.

But to Commissioner Schmidt's point, they're going to certify, these other counties, they're going to certify, Luzerne County certified. But the two Republicans voted against certification, which is startling because Donald Trump won Luzerne County by a big margin. I mean, that's really great strategy, in my opinion. If your candidate won by a big margin and you are claiming that these results can't be trusted, like they need to go back to the drawing board on that one.

BOLDUAN: And, Lieutenant Governor, quickly, this gets to kind of what is the motivation because these long shot legal challenges are even, as one person described it to me, it's kind to call them long shots because they're just not going to happen. And one thing that we do know is that the president is funding his post-White House political life, his like leadership PAC, his post-White House slush fund by raising money on these legal challenges.

If that is what is driving this, what do you say to that?

FETTERMAN: Every one of these, quote/unquote, challenges is a Hail Mary when there's no time on the clock, I mean, literally. Like it's one thing to have a Hail Mary when there's five seconds on the clock but the clock already ran out and they're still trying to do Hail Marys and the stands are empty and folks went home.

So this is just a formality, they know it, everyone knows it, Commissioner Schmidt knows it, who, by the way, is a hero. Here is a Republican who stood up and spoke truth to power through this whole episode and is working to make sure that Philadelphia certifies today.

[11:35:04]

That is -- again, Pennsylvania is in his debt.

BOLDUAN: Commissioner, on that, you've got Rudy Giuliani who he went after Philadelphia specifically in that off-the-rails press conference talking about so voter fraud, so much voter fraud in your city, you could fill a library, and more and more and more things that we know are not based in fact.

But this type of baseless allegation that has been coming at you specifically has come at great cost to you personally. I mean, we've talked about your family has been threatened and you need security now. So with that, what would you say to all of the Republicans, especially in Washington, who are standing by silently watching this happen and knowing better?

SCHMIDT: Well, I'm an elected official in Philadelphia and I have knocked on a lot of doors in my life. And one thing I've learned along the way is that people want to be told the truth and people don't want to be lied to. And it's important, I think, for all of us to stop giving any credence to these lies. There has been so much disagreement this entire election cycle. There has been so much litigation.

But one thing all of these federal judges have agreed on, whether they're Democrats or conservative Republicans, is that these allegations have no merit and no basis in fact, whatsoever.

BOLDUAN: Commissioner, do you think damage has been done though? Because that is part of the motivation, in general, right, just create chaos and sow doubt. Do you think that damage is done though?

SCHMIDT: I think that's the biggest concern of all. It's not who won this election or who lost this election or anything like that. I think, ultimately, my biggest concern, and something that does keep me up at night, is that there is damage done to our electoral system, which is the foundation of our republic. And it's a great price to pay over what? It's not worth it.

BOLDUAN: Look, and to both of you, I venture to guess that you two disagree on quite a lot when it comes to policies and lots of other things when it comes to politics. Lieutenant Governor, you're a Democrat. Al Schmidt, you are a Republican. But you agreed to come on here together to have this conversation. Lieutenant Governor, what is the message that you want to send in doing that?

FETTERMAN: the message I want to send is that Pennsylvania's election was free, fair, open and the results a true. I speak on behalf of the commonwealth that we owe individuals like Commissioner Schmidt a debt of gratitude for their tireless work through this entire process, particularly Commissioner Schmidt who's under intense pressure and even, as you mentioned, threats to deliver a result that we know is absolutely 100 percent true. And that to me is the finest example of public service that I can point to in our commonwealth is stepping up and delivering truth, whatever it is. Liking or not liking an election result is not fraud. It's simply not liking the result. And in a democracy, you're going to win some, you're going to lose some. But in Pennsylvania, we have a true result, and I'm proud work with Commissioner Schmidt and everyone, Republican or Democrat, across Pennsylvania that believes we can agree to disagree on some policies but we all collectively acknowledge the truth, and that is that Pennsylvania had a free, fair and absolutely accurate accounting of its democratic will.

BOLDUAN: Lieutenant Governor, thank you. Commissioner, it's good to see you again. Thank you very much for coming on.

SCHMIDT: You as well.

BOLDUAN: Thank you both very much.

Coming up, the big financial reason behind the president's efforts to keep fighting the election results, as we were just discussing, keep fighting the election results in court and the reason having nothing to do with this election.

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[11:40:00]

BOLDUAN: President Trump has no public events on his schedule today. That's been the case for 15 of the past 20 days since the election. The president is facing mounting legal losses, as we've been discussing, as he fights to overturn the election results. His attorneys losing in court and withdrawing from cases left and right, at least 30 cases so far, 30 cases. And now, infighting among his legal team, the president's lawyers distancing themselves from Attorney Sidney Powell over the weekend.

CNN's John Harwood is at the White House, he's joining me right now. John, what is going on here?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, the first thing to remember is that President Trump's lawyers have no case. He lost the election, it was not close. And so without evidence, without a plausible theory, you have lawyers who are going out and making frivolous, made-up, shameless, bad conspiracy theory claims about the election.

[11:45:00]

What kind of lawyer is willing to make those claims, frivolous, shameless, bad, crazy lawyers. And now, we are discovering now, in the case of Sidney Powell, that there can be too much crazy for this team because the crazy is organized around partisanship, around rallying Republicans, and Sidney Powell suggested Republicans were in on it. That apparently was too much, and so they have disavowed her in a public statement.

BOLDUAN: And talk to me about what the actual and real point of this is, the driving motivation behind it possibly? We've been talking about it throughout the show, but help folks understand it. What is going on in terms of why the president, one of the reasons at least the president would want to continue prolonging this legal fight?

HARWOOD: Kate, what the president is doing is showing us what his niece, Mary Trump, a psychologist, was explaining in her book about him, which is he is not a psychologically healthy adult, he has got the emotional makeup of a small child. He cannot handle the fact that he's lost the election. That's why he is not taking questions, it's embarrassing, humiliating for him.

And so rather than just take his toys and leave the field, he's actually going out and trying to break Joe Biden's toys, except that they're not toys, it's the United States government in the middle of a pandemic.

The other thing the president is doing is figuring out an angle for himself, which is raising money for his future political endeavors through his super PAC. So the combination of spite, trying to hurt Joe Biden, hiding from embarrassment and also trying to collect as much money as possible for what he wants to do politically, that explains the moment that we're in.

BOLDUAN: It's a good window into what could be driving all of this. And a lot of people should pay attention to it. It's good to see you, John, thank you.

HARWOOD: You bet.

BOLDUAN: Coming up, despite the CDC urging against holiday travel, thousands of college students across the country are traveling home this week. I'm going to talk to a researcher who is tracking how colleges are handling the pandemic, and he's also now sounding the alarm.

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[11:50:00]

BOLDUAN: Across the country, thousands of college students are heading home for Thanksgiving break. And as they do, they are facing tough guidance coming from the CDC, which has laid out that anyone, even college students who have not been living in your household for the past 14 days should not be considered members of the household as it relates to coronavirus, meaning extra precautions, including wearing a mask inside your own home may be necessary, tough guidance.

But if you look at the numbers, the situation today is far worse than when these very same students left for school at the end of the summer. It is a different ball game. So, what threat do college students pose for it now, what have colleges been doing about it?

Joining me right now Chris Marsicano, he is a professor at Davidson College and Founding Director of the College Crisis Initiative, which tracks how colleges are responding to the pandemic.

Chris, testing is a key factor, of course, here. How many colleges that you're looking at are actually doing testing?

CHRIS MARSICANO, FOUNDING DIRECTOR, COLLEGE CRISIS INITIATIVE: So, most colleges are doing some sort of testing, but colleges that are doing the best kind, the highest quality, the tests that test every student at least once or twice a week is only about 7 percent of colleges and universities in the country.

And when you look at Thanksgiving, pre-Thanksgiving exit testing, testing students before they go home so they know whether or not they are infected before sitting across that Thanksgiving dinner table from their grandparents, that's around 15 to 30 percent of institutions total.

BOLDUAN: I mean, those stats are really troubling. 7 percent are testing weekly. For the schools that don't have these robust programs at this point, what do they tell you? Why don't they?

MARSICANO: Well, quite frankly, it is a matter of cost. High quality tests and testing every single student, those tests cost about $100 per test per student. When you've got a student body population in a large public flagship university, like University of Georgia or University of Michigan, you're talking about 20,000, 30,000 tests per week. That's extraordinarily expensive and difficult logistically to pull off.

BOLDUAN: Right, it's the tug and pull. Students want to be back on campuses, families want the experience, but it is so expensive to test all of them. It really is very hard.

You talked about 15 percent of the schools you are tracking are doing -- have been offering exit testing as students would be heading home. What does this all mean for Thanksgiving and so many students heading home now?

MARSICANO: Well, we know from research in the College Crisis Initiative and other co-authors, like by Martin Andersen and Ana Bento at the University of North Carolina, Greensboro and Indiana University, that when students move one place to another, when they have that mobility, they bring that virus with them. We saw in the beginning of this semester when students moved from high coronavirus case counties into college towns, we could see spread in those college towns up to around 3,000 cases per day nationally.

So, what we are looking at is a group of population of 18 to 24-year- olds, who, when they leave campus, will likely bring coronavirus with them to their counties, their home counties, unless they are informed and have the knowledge to not make that travel.

And so with college testing at the level we would like to see them testing, that's extraordinarily difficult for public health officials to understand where this virus is going to spread and could cause significant damage around families during Thanksgiving.

[11:55:11]

BOLDUAN: Hence, why we are seeing tough guidance from the CDC. MARSICANO: Exactly.

BOLDUAN: But really, really important information that you're tracking. Thank you so much, Chris, I really appreciate it.

So, as we just found out that Philadelphia County is going to certify its election results today, that's pretty much the ball game in Pennsylvania, so what's going to happen in the other state everyone is watching today? That's next.

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