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Air Travel Hits Pandemic-Era High Despite CDC Warning to Stay Home; Data: AstraZeneca Vaccine is 70% Effective on Average; Trump's "Elite Strike Force" Legal Team Scapegoats Member; Trump's Ex-Defense Chief Mattis to Biden: Drop "American First"; Carol Anderson, Professor of African-American Studies, Emory University, Discusses Trump Alleging Voter Fraud in Cities with Heavy Black Populations. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 23, 2020 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, we have seen families traveling with small children. I've seen a lot of college students.

And those numbers you just mentioned were not enough to keep people from passing through the lines here at this security checkpoint.

We have seen people wearing their masks. In some cases, they have on a face shield, too. But I have always seen some people without a mask.

The U.S. is gaining this reputation for breaking records. You mentioned one record, 3.1 million cases so far this November. And we're not done with the month yet.

Despite those numbers, people told us today they want to see and wrap their arms around people they love. That's one reason a lot of college students said they were going home to see their families.

One gentleman told us he tested negative before traveling. But again, Brianna, top doctors told us a negative COVID test is not a green light to travel to see your relatives.

Meanwhile, the airlines, American specifically, normally has about 3,400 flights a day. For the Thanksgiving holiday travel, they're going from 3,400 flights a day to 4,000 flights.

The airlines aren't encouraging or discouraging people from traveling -- Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: I hear you saying that. They want to wrap their arms around loved ones, but they're running a risk of giving them more than just a hug.

Adrienne, we'll be checking in with you. You're at Chicago O'Hare. Thank you so much for that report. Dhaval Desai is the director of hospital medicine at Emory St.

Joseph's Hospital in Atlanta area.

Doctor, you're listening to the numbers, 3,400 flights a day, going up to 4,000. You know that they've increased flights. We would be safe assuming more people are on the flights as well.

What is your concern about what this is going to bring to us at this point in the pandemic?

DR. DHAVAL DESAI, DIRECTOR OF HOSPITAL MEDICINE, EMORY ST. JOSEPH'S HOSPITAL: Thanks for having me, Brianna. Pleasure to be with you.

As travel increases this week, obviously, the concern is that cases are going to go up. Each family has to make their own individual decision.

I will share with you that I come from a family of health care workers, with my wife and brother being physicians, sister-in-law being a pharmacist.

We had to make a difficult decision to cancel Thanksgiving because we don't want to increase risk for any of us, our loved ones or anybody else in the community.

KEILAR: So that is the personal decision you made.

I'm sure you're aware of a lot of friends not making that decision as well. Probably even people in the medical industry who are not making that decision. That's just the reality.

We're seeing folks who normally practice safe measures when it comes to coronavirus, and there's something about this holiday that they're making a decision.

Maybe it has to do with that mental health and family connection. I think that's obvious.

But when you are seeing some people in the airport and are wearing masks, does that make you feel more at ease or is that not enough?

DESAI: You know, it does make me feel more at ease, but we know it doesn't take care of the risk 100 percent also.

At the end of the day, we still want to follow guidelines. We still want to protect each other.

While the three "W"s at where I work at Emory Health, we want to follow: wearing a mask, washing your hands, watching your distance, are the best things we can do in reasonable measures without a vaccine right now.

Still, large crowds gathering in airports or community dwellings still doesn't take the risk away 100 percent.

KEILAR: Do you think that Americans are really aware of what's happening right now in hospitals?

DESAI: You know, I think there's an awareness of what's happening, but I think Americans in general are feeling what health care workers are feeling. We are feeling frustrated. We're feeling angry. We're feeling sad.

We all share these feelings with the ongoing pandemic now entering the tenth month of that. We want normalcy.

Without being in the hospital, seeing what's going on, you may not grasp the severity of the situation, but health care workers can attest to that.

It is one of the things where, until you are in the position, you may not grasp how severe the situation is.

For that reason, we want to listen to experts, listen to our health care workers on the frontlines every day, fighting the pandemic, and attesting to the severity it can bring.

KEILAR: Doctor Desai, thank you for joining us. We really need the reality check.

DESAI: Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: Now to the vaccine front where there are some encouraging reports.

There's new data released by AstraZeneca and Oxford University. And it shows their coronavirus vaccine is about 70 percent effective. Meaning that we now have three potential vaccines on the horizon.

CNN senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, joins us now.

I know people will listen to this, and say, 70 percent, that's good. Except Pfizer and Moderna are reporting at 95 percent efficacy.

[13:35:09]

DR. ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. So that's important to keep in mind. Not all vaccines are going to be equal.

Another important thing to keep in mind, Brianna, all of this is early data. But AstraZeneca's data is especially early. It's based on trials in the U.K. and Brazil.

Their trials in the U.S. are still ongoing. We expect to hear more from them.

As one person told me, I don't feel like this is quite yet fully baked.

Let's look at the specific numbers. AstraZeneca announcing they have 70 percent effectiveness. And there were 12,000 people in their study. Moderna announcing 94.5 percent effectiveness last week. They had

about 30,000 study participants. That matters. More people gives you a more robust finding. Pfizer, very similar, 95 percent, with 44,000 people.

We really are waiting to hear more from AstraZeneca as they start to do their -- they've already started it -- but as they continue to do their large U.S. trial, what numbers will they get from that -- Brianna?

KEILAR: So when will vaccinations begin?

COHEN: Right. This is what's on everybody's mind.

We can't predict the future. However, we did ask Dr. Fauci and we asked the Moncef Slaoui, head of Operation Warp Speed, what's going on here, when do you think this will happen.

This is the forecast. We know from the weather, forecasts are often wrong, but this is what they're outlooking. So let's take a look.

Dr. Fauci says he thinks, toward the latter half of December, we, in the United States, will start vaccinating high-risk folks, health care workers, people with underlying medical conditions, elderly people, essential workers like police officers.

And then at the end of April will start - so starting end of April -- to vaccinate everyone else. People that are not in one of the high- risk groups.

Dr. Slaoui thinks, by May, we may have immunized 70 percent of the population, which would be terrific.

But remember, these are forecasts. It may turn out better than this, may take longer than this -- Brianna?

KEILAR: Let's hope that holds.

Elizabeth, thank you so much.

The president's legal team, led by Rudy Giuliani, is kicking one of its members out for doing what all of the rest of the members of the team are doing. We will roll the tape.

Plus, the president is baselessly shouting fraud when it comes to cities who have a heavy black population. I'm going to speak with a professor in one of the cities who is calling it, quote, "vile."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:42:23]

KEILAR: The president taking "L" after "L" in the baseless election fight, even though his legal team has billed itself as the best since "Perry Mason" and "Matlock."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNA ELLIS, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: This is an Elite Strike Force team working on behalf of the president and the campaign to make sure our Constitution is protected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: That Elite Strike Force team is more like the expendables now.

Team member, Sidney Powell, peddled nonsense QAnon conspiracy theories as well as lies about Venezuela rigging the election and Georgia Republicans fixing the vote.

Now the president's campaign is throwing her off the zodiac raft.

Quote, "Sidney Powell is practicing law on her own. She is not a member of the Trump legal team. She is also not a lawyer for the president in his personal capacity."

Fellow conspiracy theorists, Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis, are trying to erase Powell from the president's Elite Strike Force team with that statement after previously promoting her contributions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PERSONAL ATTORNEY TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: I'm in charge of this investigation with Sidney and the people you see here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Jenna Ellis, who, again, co-wrote that statement disavowing Powell's membership on the team, previously tagged Powell in tweets, including one that labeled her a member of the president's, quote, 'national legal team."

Sidney Powell even had a speaking role at the Trump legal team's bananas press stunt last week. The RNC promoted her absurd comments that President Trump won in a landslide.

Right-wing outlets gave her a platform as a, quote, "member of the president's legal team," likely because the president described her that way, saying she was part of a, quote, "truly great team added to our other wonderful lawyers and representatives."

Now, it is unclear why she was ejected from planet Trump's orbit. But reports indicate that she was getting too fringe, which is odd,

because that doesn't differentiate her from the rest of the Trump election legal team. It makes her fit right in there.

Rudy Giuliani is peddling many of the same conspiracy theories Powell has, including ones about voting machines in Venezuela.

The idea that the president is losing patience with a conspiracy theorist is like the president growing tired of watching cable news. It's simply not believable. Why Sidney Powell and not Jenna Ellis, another Trump election lawyer

who, in the thick of trying to claim that she's fighting for the future of democracy, responded to a Republican pollster who criticized her by saying that he has, quote, "micro penis syndrome."

From the same Jenna Ellis who once declared foul language, name calling, or personal attacks should not be tolerated -- would not be tolerated by her on Twitter.

[13:44:58]

Maybe the bigger question is: Why Sidney Powell, and not Rudy Giuliani? Giuliani, who couldn't answer basic legal questions in federal court. His performance a mockery by any objective court observer.

Rudy Giuliani, who is under active investigation by the FBI, who unwittingly took a role in "Borat II," a horizontal role, by the way. And who once held a recent press conference at a landscaping company next to a sex shop.

It appears more likely that Sidney Powell is simply the fall guy for a president who likes to win, who said that we would be tired of winning, yet does not appear tired of losing.

Trump's election legal team and their allies have lost more than 30 court cases at this point. So there must be a scapegoat.

And that is Sidney Powell, sacrificed for an effort to overturn the election that's melting faster than Rudy Giuliani's hair.

And ahead, President-Elect Biden revealing more picks from his cabinet, including the Homeland Security secretary and director of National Intelligence. Plus, a role for John Kerry.

And the president's former defense secretary says that Joe Biden should drop the "America First" slogan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:50:35]

KEILAR: Just in, the president's former defense secretary, James Mattis, telling President-Elect Joe Biden to scrap President Trump's "America First" slogan.

I want to go to Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.

Barbara, this is an interesting development that you have a Trump defense secretary telling the incoming president to do this.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is interesting. I think inside national security circles here in Washington, maybe not a huge surprise.

But interesting there's such a public repudiation of it now that President Trump is on the way out of office by his former defense secretary.

Mattis, along with others, writing in "Foreign Policy" -- I want to read you just a bit of it.

He says that, "When President Joe Biden and his national security team begin to reevaluate U.S. foreign policy, we hope they will quickly revise the national security strategy to eliminate 'America First' from its contents."

It goes on to say, "Restoring the more traditional approach to alliances."

And Vice -- President-Elect Joe Biden already making swift moves in that direction, speaking on the phone today to the NATO secretary- general, one of the critical alliances.

Mr. Trump, very successfully, it has to be acknowledged, pushed an agenda to get NATO members to increase their defense spending.

But the big question is: Was there -- you know, has there really been a sort of fracture with the alliance because of the "America First" policy?

Poor relations with Germany now. And many feel a real need to shore up that East European flank of NATO against any Russian adventurism.

Signals today with that call to the NATO secretary-general that that may now be happening, that this alliance and other alliances will be restored.

"America First" perhaps back on the back burner -- Brianna?

KEILAR: All right, Barbara Starr, from the Pentagon, thank you.

Back to our breaking news now. President-Elect Biden reveals more picks from his cabinet, including Homeland Security secretary and director of National Intelligence. Plus, a role for John Kerry.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:55:51]

KEILAR: President Trump and his allies are now trying to overturn President-Elect Joe Biden's victory in key battleground states.

And they're doing it by targeting ballots cast in heavily black cities, cities like Philadelphia, Detroit, Atlanta and Milwaukee.

And they're claiming that these cities are rife with fraud. And they're doing this without evidence.

I want to bring in Professor Carol Anderson to talk about this. She teaches African-American studies at Emory University.

Professor, I think it's -- for this to be happening in 2020, tell us your view of what this means for where we are at when it comes to African-Americans voting and being discouraged from voting, and then having their votes questioned.

CAROL ANDERSON, CHARLES HOWARD CANDLER PROFESSOR OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES, EMORY UNIVERSITY: I think it really speaks to the fact that, for the Republicans, African-Americans are seen as not legitimate Americans.

Because they're not legitimate Americans, they don't have the right to vote.

You see this because of a long-term play to use the language of voters fraud, voter fraud. And then define that fraud as happening in cities, although there have been no -- there's no evidence, no proof of this long-standing, widespread voter free throw.

But it's a way to conjure up the notion of a black illegitimacy.

KEILAR: This country has a history of that, right, a history that African-Americans have tried to overcome.

This is, I think, the understanding of a lot of Americans that this was only supposed to go in one direction, which would be increasing the ability for African-Americans to vote.

For this to be happening at this point in time -- and, I mean, I think -- look, I think there are some Republicans, Professor, who do not like what they're seeing.

But knowing that, what do Republicans, who are in that position, need to do in order to turn this around for their party?

ANDERSON: One of the things they need to do is to stand up and say we believe in democracy, that there's absolutely no evidence of some kind of widespread voter fraud, particularly in these cities that have sizable black populations.

And to then just go for it. Call Trump and all of these legal claims out for the farce and for the corrosive effect that this has on democracy.

We saw the violence that had happened to black people after Reconstruction when they tried to vote. We saw it during Jim Crow. This is why we had to have a Voting Rights Act.

Now we're getting the kind of what I call bureaucratic violence, where the claims are that these aren't real voters, so we don't have to count their votes, because they have used the mail in the middle of a pandemic.

Or that, you know, we're not sure they did this or they did that, but when you try to nail them down, you read these lawsuits, there's -- it's a hearsay of a hearsay of a hearsay.

(CROSSTALK)

ANDERSON: So it's time to call it out and fight for democracy.

KEILAR: Do you think, Professor, that black voters will look at what's happened and they will be discouraged from voting?

Or do you think they might take away a lesson that actually their vote is important and they might be encouraged to vote?

ANDERSON: I think what they're seeing is that their vote is really powerful.

That's why you have this array of folks coming at it. And it's going to steel the determination to vote, to register to vote and then to vote.

Because if your vote wasn't so powerful, why are these coming at it the way they are?

KEILAR: Professor Carol Anderson, we appreciate you joining us.

ANDERSON: Thank you.

[14:00:02]

KEILAR: Thank you.

It's the top of the hour. I'm Brianna Keilar.