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Few Americans Cancelling Thanksgiving Travel Plans; Interview with Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-IL); Previewing a New Season of "THIS IS LIFE WITH LISA LING." Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired November 25, 2020 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[10:31:06]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Thanksgiving air travel is expected to remain strong this year despite urgent warnings from the CDC and other health experts. Dr. Anthony Fauci says that he is worried about what new case numbers will look like in the three weeks after Thanksgiving. This as a new poll finds only 61 percent of Americans have altered their holiday plans as a result of the pandemic. That is not good news.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, not good news at all. Let's go to our aviation correspondent Pete Muntean. He joins us now from Reagan National Airport in the nation's capital. Good morning. What are they -- it just baffles me, how many there are traveling despite what the CDC just said. How are they explaining it to you?
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Yes, things are just getting going here at Reagan National and at airports across the country, Poppy. You know, about 900,000 people -- according to the TSA -- passed through security at America's airports yesterday. That means in total, 4.8 million people have flown since the CDC issued that warning to not travel, a number that could be pushed up by a million more today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MUNTEAN (voice-over): Caroline Osler says she could not stay home any more, so she took a coronavirus test and boarded a flight home to Kentucky for Thanksgiving.
CAROLINE OSLER, TRAVELING TO KENTUCKY: I think at some point, it just -- it's too hard to stay away from family especially for the holidays.
MUNTEAN (voice-over): It is the rationale of 50 million Americans, according to AAA, who will travel by plane, train or car this week. The new forecast is only a 10 percent decrease from last year's pre- pandemic levels, but AAA thinks the actual number could be even lower as coronavirus cases surge. Last week, the Centers for Disease Control said to cancel holiday travel.
YASMINE DEHGHANI, TRAVELING TO CONNECTICUT: I understand the risk that I'm taking, but I want to see my family.
MUNTEAN (voice-over): Passenger levels are already starting to rise again and set a new record of the pandemic on Sunday. This past weekend was the busiest three days at airports since travel cratered. Major airlines are gearing up for more passengers and adding new flights for the first time since March.
Airline industry groups says they are not encouraging travel, but they're not discouraging it either.
NICK CALIO, PRESIDENT AND CEO, AIRLINES FOR AMERICA: I think it's perfectly ethical. We would not fly people if it were not safe.
MUNTEAN (voice-over): Airlines feel empowered by new research that says cleaning like this plus heavily filtered air on board an airplane and everyone wearing masks keeps virus transmission rates low.
LEONARD MARCUS, HARVARD SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: It's a layered approach --
MUNTEAN (voice-over): Dr. Leonard Marcus is on the team of Harvard virologists who study the air inside airliners. Their findings? That being in a passenger cabin is maybe safer than a grocery store. But Marcus cautions travelers to plan every step of their trip to reduce risk door to door.
MARCUS: Everyone has to make a decision about their own personal risk. It's a very personal decision.
MUNTEAN (voice-over): Airlines are starting programs to test passengers for coronavirus, but only on limited international routes. For Caroline Osler, that means taking another coronavirus test before gathering around the table for a Thanksgiving like no other.
OSLER: I think it reaches a point where you have to decide what's best for yourself and how you can best protect yourself and those around you as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MUNTEAN: The TSA says the numbers show that not many people are cancelling their trips. That means today will be big, but Sunday will be even bigger. That's when the TSA thinks all the people who have left for the holiday could be coming home all at once -- Jim, Poppy.
SCIUTTO: Boy, crunch times. Pete Muntean, thanks very much.
[10:34:41]
Well, the vast majority of sitting congressional Republicans, still not publicly condemning or dismissing President Trump's effort to overturn the election. I'll be joined, coming up, by one of the few Republicans who is, in no uncertain terms, issuing a rebuke. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Today, President Trump is expected to join his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania at an even where they will share, again, claims of massive voter fraud that they have yet to share evidence of. This as most city congressional Republicans remain silent on those attacks on the election.
With me now is Republican lawmaker Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois, who is among the few who's pushed back against these claims. Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.
[10:40:05]
REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): You bet, thanks.
SCIUTTO: So you've been really almost uniquely vocal among your fellow Republicans in dismissing claims by Trump and his allies that they haven't presented evidence for of massive voter fraud in this election. I just want to ask you in the simplest terms: Why? Why are you doing that, why are you so willing to do that?
KINZINGER: Because it's right. I mean, look, you have others like Denver Riggleman -- great guy -- doing the same thing, but the reality is, you know, I think this moment, you know, who you want for president and stuff, yes it matters, your vote matters. But I think what matters more than anything is just being able to hold the republic and the union together.
And I don't mean to be like overly dramatic and all that, but you know, over time, if you're continually told that there's conspiracies behind everything, that you know, the government's run by a Satanic cabal that you know, your vote doesn't matter, the ballot boxes were stuffed? Eventually you believe that your vote doesn't count.
And when you feel disenfranchised, that's what makes republics fail. So I'm very concerned about it in the long term.
SCIUTTO: Fact is, to this point, the leader of Republicans in the House, Kevin McCarthy, he has still not acknowledged President-elect Biden, he has not dismissed these attacks as you have. Is it time for him and other Republican leaders to stand up and speak out and --
KINZINGER: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- acknowledge the reality?
KINZINGER: I think so. You see people like Liz Cheney that's done it, and -- but I think it's important for everybody to understand, you know, if there truly is a legal strategy, of course we all have said the president has every right to go forward with that. But what I have heard is a lot of wait-and-sees.
So boy, have all this evidence of voter fraud, wait until I show you what it is? It's been three weeks. And you know, besides stuff you see on Twitter where somebody now claims that, for instance, Biden's only up 4,000 votes in Arizona, you find out it's not true.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KINZINGER: The problem is, is that initial misinformation is what spreads and the correction never does. You can't --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KINZINGER: -- explain to somebody how a glitch happens in, you know, the four seconds that it takes to spread a story like wildfire.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Can you help me understand what is driving Republican reticence here? I mean, the fact is in the election, the president actually underperformed down-ballot Republicans. The Republicans gained seats in the House, they're in a pretty good position in the Senate, did great in state legislatures, right? Why the fear?
KINZINGER: Yes. So you do see that, by the way. You see a lot of Biden-Republican down-ticket voters. Maybe not a ton, but enough to really have the result that you had.
I think, you know, part of it is an echo chamber. You know, too many politicians, I think, look at Twitter and think that that's reality. So if you ever say anything against President Trump, you get mobbed by this crazy crowd. And the right and left, by the way, have these Twitter mobs, as we've all experienced.
And so instead, they just want to placate the mob and not push back against this stuff. And you know, they think it's like just wait around and you know, eventually this thing will square itself out. But the president himself said he will never concede --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KINZINGER: -- and that's really concerning because what happens when, you know, there's a Democratic president that does the same thing? Do we have a right to be morally outraged? Probably not at that point. And so then it's just kind of natural, every four years, for a president to never concede. That's not helping.
SCIUTTO: Yes. All right, let's move on to other topics because we do have -- facts (ph) are -- a new president coming in. Biden said, in announcing his new foreign policy team -- of course you're on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, you're a veteran, this is very close to your heard, these issues -- he said that America First, Trump's approach to the world, let to America Alone. Are there shifts you see coming from the president-elect that you welcome?
KINZINGER: Yes. I think there's going to be some. Look, I don't know if I agree with the rhetoric on the America First, I guess it depends how you perceive that. Like, I do think the most important thing, of course, is (ph) the United States of America. But what I do want to see is some restoration of some of the international friends that we have, friends and partners.
Taking on China for instance on trade, that was a smart move by President Trump. What we should have done though is taken China on from a position of strength, with allies behind us that we can all work together.
Same thing with NATO. He did a great job of getting NATO to pay more, but we do need NATO, as much as NATO needs us. So I think that kind of stuff in the long run can be helpful, but I'm very concerned about things like Iran and the Middle East.
SCIUTTO: I want to ask specifically about Afghanistan because you served there. The president is reducing the U.S. deployment there to 2,500. The floor as recommended by senior military advisers, kind of the minimum number to maintain counterterror there, to continue to fight al-Qaida -- by the way, Taliban is blowing stuff up multiple times a day right now -- 4,500, nearly twice that.
By reducing the U.S. footprint there so dramatically, does that leave this country less safe?
KINZINGER: Oh, totally. And I mean, this -- we could do a half-hour segment on this, things like you know, 2,500 troops, all that does is really protect the 2,500 troops, you can't, you know, project any kind of real force. You talk about your counterterrorism mission, you talk about the psychological win to ISIS, all this stuff.
[10:45:12]
And then just the fact that he has put President-elect Biden in a position where he either has to complete the withdrawal, or he has to put troops back in -- in which case, he owns either resolve (ph).
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KINZINGER: You know, it's nonsensical. This is Rand Paul, you know, foreign policy and it's not going to look good in the long run.
SCIUTTO: Final question, Biden has said that he might consider nominating a Republican for a cabinet position. We saw Obama do the same thing -- Chuck Hagel of course served in his cabinet. If asked, I know this is hypothetical but would you consider such an appointment?
KINZINGER: Well I mean, you'd never not consider something that would be very important if something like that came. Haven't heard anything, have no intention of it. And -- but you know, I mean, if it was something, you know, magical where you can make a big world impact, of course you'd take a look at it.
But you know, my job and my goal is to represent the 700,000 people I do. I'll support President-elect Biden when I can, oppose him honorably when I must.
SCIUTTO: Congressman Kinzinger, thanks so much for speaking honestly.
KINZINGER: You bet. Take care.
HARLOW: It is such a refreshing thing to hear --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARLOW: -- with no spin. All right, great interview, Jim.
A prison and a prep school? Lisa Ling, up next with us, showing us how these two unlikely worlds come together as her new season of "THIS IS LIFE" begins this weekend. She's here next.
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[10:50:58]
HARLOW: Two worlds, one of promise and one of punishment, come together for a very unlikely experiment on this Sunday's season premiere of "THIS IS LIFE WITH LISA LING." Lisa brings a unique look at a prison and a prep school who formed an unlikely bond over literature. Watch this.
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LISA LING, CNN HOST, THIS IS LIFE WITH LISA LING (voice-over): With minimum wage at eight cents an hour, it can take a full day of hard labor to make a buck on the inside. So every dollar donated is worth a lot more in here than in the free world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much are you going to be donating?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A hundred dollars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A hundred dollars? Appreciate that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My check.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your paycheck?
LING: What kind of work do you do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I clean the medical facilities around here. That's my monthly pay.
LING: So you make a hundred dollars a month and you're donating your whole check --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
LING: -- to this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I get paid to do what I do, so why not pay it forward and give it to someone else for a change?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining us now is the host of "THIS IS LIFE," Lisa Ling. Lisa, it's so good to have you. You know, and I love seeing projects like this because we have a tendency as a country to discard these people, right? Once you're incarcerated it's like, we don't want to see you, right?
HARLOW: Yes. SCIUTTO: They're real people. Tell us about this project.
LING: They are real people, Jim. Yes, I found out about what is essentially a book club inside a prison in Soledad, California. It happens to be the prison where the most lifers are housed than any other facility in the state.
And it's an elective program at a prep boys' school, a Catholic boys' school called the Palma School. And young men will go in and read literature for eight weeks during the school year. This obviously happened during COVID, although it's happening virtually now. And it's been going on for four years.
And I knew I had to tell this story when I found out about something absolutely remarkable that happened. A couple of years ago, while reading a novel, "Through the Valley of the Quay," some of the incarcerated men decided that they wanted to start a scholarship to fund the education of a young man on the outside to be able to attend the Palma School.
And so this past year, a young man named Sy Green graduated, having had almost his entire education at this elite Catholic boys' school paid for by a bunch of prison inmates. It really is an extraordinary story.
And the book club itself, you know, you would think that it would really impact the incarcerated men, but really, the transformation that I witnessed among the young men was incredible.
You know, the inmates in this program, they were so candid about their crimes, they were so remorseful about the things that they had done. And also had really identified trauma in their lives as young people and how they have been able to resolve it.
And by sharing their candor, it essentially gave the young men from the prep school permission to be able to feel themselves. And they shared things that even some of their own classmates -- who had known them their entire lives -- had never known about them.
And so what this -- the two hours of our show will be like on Sunday, it'll be about young men getting that permission to feel. And what happens when they aren't given that permission.
HARLOW: You know, and Lisa, to that point, it's actually back-to-back episodes on Sunday night. The second episode is this rare access that you got as the first woman ever to be allowed into this retreat that is just for boys struggling with some really serious issues.
LING: That's right. I mean, we didn't intend for these two episodes to run together, but in some ways they go together because that is sort of the theme. And we all recognize that there are a lot of boys and young men who are struggling right now.
And I think that for girls, it's a lot easier to be communicative --
[10:55:02] HARLOW: Yes.
LING: -- to express their feelings. But for boys, if they've experienced any kind of hardship, any kind of trauma that continues to go unresolved, it can impact them for the rest of their lives. So in many ways, both of these episodes are about that.
SCIUTTO: Lisa, it's powerful stuff, meaningful stuff. Thanks so much for joining.
LING: Thanks for having me, guys.
SCIUTTO: Well, folks, be sure to tune in, an all-new season of "THIS IS LIFE WITH LISA LING." It premieres with back-to-back episodes, this Sunday night, 9:00 p.m. Eastern time, only on CNN.
HARLOW: Thank you to all of us for joining us today. Have a great Thanksgiving --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARLOW: -- Jim, enjoy the turkey, I'm going to try to cook mine tonight before coming here tomorrow morning. Have a great holiday, everyone. We'll see you tomorrow.
SCIUTTO: Please do, please do. We wish you all the best. I'm Jim Sciutto. NEWSROOM with Kate Bolduan starts right after a short break.
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