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U.S. Reports Deadliest Day Of Pandemic In More Than Six Months; Coronavirus Rages Across America Ahead Of Thanksgiving; Millions Traveling Despite Warnings From Health Experts. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired November 25, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:00:30]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you so much for joining us this hour.

We are living in a moment of stark contrast. Today is a perfect example of that. We're seeing nothing but good news about vaccine development to fight the coronavirus. We've talked about it all the time. Help is on the horizon.

Yet there are growing fears that the pandemic is only going to get worse. The nation just marked the deadliest day of the pandemic since mid-April. More than 2,100 Americans died yesterday and for the 15th straight - 15th straight day, the U.S. broke its own hospitalization record with more than 88,000 COVID patients nationwide. That is what is driving Dr. Anthony Fauci to offer this final message ahead of Thanksgiving.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The final message is to do what really, we've been saying now for some time, to the extent possible, keep the gatherings - the indoor gatherings, as small as you possibly can. We all know how difficult that is because this is such a beautiful traditional holiday but by making that sacrifice, you're going to be --prevent people from getting infected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: The contrasts don't stop there, the Dow hit 30,000 for the first time ever yesterday. Yet a record number of Americans are waiting in long line at food banks across the country. The situation is so dire that Feeding America, which is a network of more than 200 food banks, says that the U.S. faces a shortage of up to 8 billion meals in the next 12 months because of the new demand, because of so much food insecurity across the country now.

Those aren't the only lines that deserve attention either. Long lines of people waiting to get tested for COVID as the virus spreads everywhere. In now long lines in America's airports as people are traveling in numbers that we have not seen since the pandemic began, despite the continued warnings from the CDC. Some of these lines are out of necessity.

Too many Americans are without food. Some of these lines are medically necessary. New COVID cases are surging. And also, let's be real, some of these lines are not necessary at all. So many people traveling this holiday season.

Let's start there with CNN's Pete Muntean. He's at Washington's Reagan National Airport with more on this. Pete, what are you seeing and hearing there right now?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATON CORRESPONDENT: Well, things are just going here at Reagan National Airport, Kate, and at airports across the country. You know, we've seen long lines here but also in Atlanta, also in Milwaukee. All of it means that people are still flying in spite of the CDC's warning to not travel for Thanksgiving.

The TSA numbers show that just yesterday about 900,000 people pass through security at America's airports. That means 4.8 million people have flown since the CDC first issued that warning. I have been talking to travelers about the rationale for flying right now. Some feel like it was the right call while others say they will never do it again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RENEE MCKENNIS, TRAVELER: I won't do it again. This is it. My last time traveling during the pandemic. It's something that I have to do.

NICK, TRAVELER: Not really afraid of it. You take normal precautions and you get on with your life.

NATHANIEL OLUWAFEMI-AJAO, TRAVELER: I just (INAUDIBLE) and be careful out there because you know its coronavirus is real and it's not a joke, you know. I know people that have lost their lives to this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: The TSA says the numbers show that people are not canceling their Thanksgiving trips. Today will be big but Sunday could be even bigger. That's when the TSA thinks everybody who left for the holiday could be coming home all at once. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Yes, that's staggered start. Everyone starts heading out at the same time then to return home.

MUNTEAN: Right.

BOLDUAN: Thank you, Pete. Thank you very much.

This afternoon we're going to hear from President-elect Joe Biden, set to deliver a Thanksgiving address. He's expected to talk about the sacrifices Americans are making this holiday season due to the pandemic. Just as his transition team is finally getting ready in by Trump administration officials on the nation's COVID response.

Listen how Joe Biden talked about that outreach with NBC News. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're already working out a meeting with the COVID team in the White House and how to not only distribute but from a vaccine being distributed to a person able to get vaccinated.

[11:05:00]

So, I think we're going to not be so far behind the curve as we thought we might be in the past. And there's a lot of immediate discussion and I must say, the outreach has been sincere. It's not been begrudging so far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: CNN's Jeff Zeleny is joining us live from Wilmington, Delaware. Jeff, what are you hearing about - more about these briefings and also how coordination is now going?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, we're hearing the biggest briefing of all is going to take place on Monday. That is the presidential daily brief that is going to be given to President-elect Biden for the first time on Monday.

This, of course, is a document that the president can read and receive every day. President Trump sometimes does, sometimes doesn't. But Joe Biden we're told and Kamala Harris, the vice president-elect, will be receiving their presidential daily brief for the first time on Monday.

What that is, is just a compilation of threats that's put together and assessment by the Intelligence Community of what is facing the United States. So that first briefing will come Monday. As for other briefings, we're told by transition officials, I just got off a briefing a few moments ago with them, and they, look, they have had more than 50 meetings, some virtual, some not, in terms of across the country. Every agency has been contacted and they say, so far, there is a sense of cooperation.

Now, they've gotten -- they've not gotten very deep into these conversations with the agencies, what they are doing necessarily. So, we will see how cooperative this is as the time goes on here. But this is something that is well underway. And we're also going to see more cabinet secretaries announced next week.

The Economic team, the Treasury secretary. The point of this, Kate, is that Joe Biden is occupying the space of president-elect. He's moving forward, never mind what President Trump is trying to do. The Biden team is going forward on this and will also be delivering Thanksgiving Day address here this afternoon from Wilmington, talking specifically about the sacrifices Americans are making with the deep economic pain as well as the coronavirus, rising deaths and hospitalizations. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Absolutely, where the focus must remain. Thank you so much, Jeff. Good to see you, man. Joining me right now to talk more about this is Dr. Celine Gounder, a member of the Biden transition team's COVID-19 Advisory Board. It's good to see you again, Doctor. As we heard from the president-elect talking about -- and it's sad, it's shocking to hear you know someone say - some would say that outreach has been sincere, and it hasn't been begrudging.

It should be standard course but it's good to hear that from the president-elect. How much outreach have you seen from the Department of Health and Human Services and the White House Coronavirus Task Force so far? How would you describe it?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, MEMBER, BIDEN-HARRIS TRANSITION COVID-19 ADVISORY BOARD: Well, the transition team and the advisory board are starting discussions with members of the current administration, as President- elect Biden has said, these outreaches have been sincere. I think, frankly, career bureaucrat scientists and other public health officials really just want to see a smooth transition. Really just want to see us all come together and fight this common threat together. So, they're invested in seeing this go through smoothly.

BOLDUAN: What details do you still want and need? Obviously, this is the very beginning of what will be in depth conversations but what details do you really want to see from HHS and the task force to be able to advise fully on the appropriate approach to COVID response when you - when Biden hits the ground on January 20th?

GOUNDER: Well, big picture, things like you know where do things stand with the supply chain? How much do we have in terms of personal protective equipment, where? In what state is that personal protective equipment? Is it useable? Is it expired?

You know, the same sorts of data on testing. And also, where are we in terms of internal conversations with pharmaceutical companies, the big retail chains, and their planning for scaling up vaccination and the like. And you know, there's a lot that goes into -- this is sort of like UPS Delivery. There's a lot of logistics involved and a lot of fine detail we need to drill down on.

BOLDUAN: So, a lot of work, clearly, still ahead as you're laying it out there. The task force we are hearing is considering shortening the quarantine time needed for someone who has been exposed to coronavirus. The standard view has been all along has been quarantine for 14 days. But now they seem to say that evidence is suggesting a quarantine of 10 days along with a test is what really is what's needed. What do you think of that?

GOUNDER: Well, I was actually on the phone with a scientist at Yale discussing this very question yesterday. And there do seem to be model of sciences that would suggest you could perhaps even shorten quarantine to eight days as long as you do a test at the end of quarantine.

[11:10:05]

And this particular researcher was looking at this in the context of workers on oil rigs for a company in Australia. So, these are folks who work in very tight quarters. And if you have an outbreak on an oil rig, that shuts down the oil rig.

So, there was definitely real interest in figuring out how can we weigh the risk, prevent transmission, but try to do so as efficiently as possible.

So, I think this is one of those things whereas we learn more as the science progresses, we can be more and more targeted, less and less restrictive in what we suggest to prevent transmission.

BOLDUAN: Is this the type of guidance that the President-elect Biden is looking, advice that President-elect Biden is turning to you about, how to change the -- how to -- how the guidelines can evolve over time or what the guidelines should be when the administration takes over?

GOUNDER: Yes, I think President-elect Biden has been very clear that he wants the science, the scientists to be guiding our recommendations, our guidelines. And this is what's so great about science, it does evolve, it does progress over time. And as we learn more, we can change our recommendations so they're less burdensome on people while still protecting everybody.

BOLDUAN: And one concern, I have heard from you for a long time actually now, is about the availability of beds and the availability of PPE across the country. But now with the spread of the virus so wide across the country, I almost think at this moment, like forget the beds for a second. Because how real is the concern that there's going to be a shortage of doctors and nurses, literally a shortage of hands to save lives?

GOUNDER: That is a real concern. So, it's everything. It's everything from the beds to the PPE to the doctors and nurses. And frankly, they are burned out. We are burned out. We had been fighting this for months. And every time we see somebody not wearing a mask, every time we hear about somebody who just doesn't want to take those precautions, and as much as I can understand their own fatigue in all of this, it's also really a slap in the face of those health care workers who have been slaving away for months now trying to save lives, trying to do their best. And so, we're coming into the surge pretty demoralized, frankly.

BOLDUAN: That's sadly I think maybe a perfect way of putting it.

In terms of public health approach, and this is something you're an expert on, the CEO of Qantas Airlines has said this week that they're going to require international travelers to be vaccinated before flying. I'm curious if you think that should become the norm, the norm with airlines but also in other industries and even when we're talking about schools.

GOUNDER: I do think we need to be very careful in how we structure those mandates because you need to think about who has access to the vaccines and if there are inequities in terms of access to the vaccines, are you then creating another layer of inequity in terms of who can fly or who can go to school and so on base on their access to the vaccine. So, I think some of these things make sense from a public health perspective, but you also have to think about it in a broader fairness and justice perspective.

BOLDUAN: Yes, that's a great point. Dr. Gounder, thank you for coming in.

GOUNDER: Happy Thanksgiving.

BOLDUAN: Thank you, you too.

Coming up for us. Just in, President Trump was planning to attend an event in Pennsylvania, that was going to continue to push the baseless election fraud claims in the commonwealth. The reason that trip was just canceled, we've just learned. That's next.

Also, ahead, new reporting on possible pardons that are under discussion at the White House.

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[11:18:02]

BOLDUAN: This just in, President Trump's planned trip to Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, today has been canceled. He was going to join Rudy Giuliani for an event focused entirely we're told on pushing baseless claims of voter fraud in the commonwealth. Yes, after the vote and the result there have already been certified but now it's canceled, according to sources familiar.

Let's get over to John Harwood. He's at the White House for us. John, what is going on here?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: What's going on, Kate, is that yet another person in Donald Trump's inner circle, Boris Epshteyn, a campaign adviser has tested positive. He announced that this morning, for coronavirus. He had been closely exposed to Rudy Giuliani. So, they cancelled that trip.

Now, we need to say there's no big loss to the trip being canceled because there was no substance about it. It was a P.R. stunt to try to keep alive this story, which is not true, that the election was riddled with fraud and stolen from the president.

What's really happening, Kate, is the president's never had much interest in doing the actual work as president, but now that he's given up the coast on the transition of power flowing to Joe Biden, he's really checked out of the work of the presidency and he's focused on his future endeavors.

So, when you keep alive this fraud idea, you're rallying your base in case you want to run again. You're extracting money from them by raising money for their legal defense fund. You're excerpting control over the Republican Party and you're also communing with people, sending million plus people who voted for him who will be the base consumer for whatever commercial endeavor he's involved with in the future years. That's what he's doing. He's certainly not focused on the pandemic, not having public events, not taking questions from reporters.

BOLDUAN: And not canceled because it looked bad. Canceled only because it was dangerous because of the pandemic. That's also a statement about where priorities land. Right?

HARWOOD: Right, right. May not be dangerous to the president because he's had coronavirus already, but yes, dangerous to other people, including Rudy Giuliani.

[11:20:05]

BOLDUAN: Yes, exactly. So, there's also new reporting about who President Trump is looking to pardon before he leaves office. What are you hearing about that, John?

HARWOOD: Well, this is also part of his focus on taking care of himself for the future. He's considering pardoning Michael Flynn, who, like Paul Manafort, like Roger Stone, people who landed in legal trouble during his term, may have information that subjects the president to legal exposure. He dangled a pardon to Paul Manafort while Manafort was being prosecuted by Robert Mueller.

Manafort feigned cooperation for a while. Then Mueller said he was lying to investigators. He was withholding information to protect the president. Roger Stone withheld information. He said so to protect the president, said he wasn't going to flip on him. The president has already commuted Roger Stone's sentence.

And Michael Flynn also may know things that are legally dangerous for President Trump. And so, the Trump Justice Department had tried to walk back the prosecution of Michael Flynn. Judge Sullivan in Washington is holding up that process, delaying that process. So, now there's serious consideration beginning of simply pardoning Michael Flynn. Again, which would serve to shield the president from potential legal exposure after he leaves the presidency on January 20th.

BOLDUAN: And likely not the only person that will be getting a pardon on his way out the door. Good to see you, John. Thank you.

HARWOOD: You bet.

BOLDUAN: So, coming up for us, in the first sit-down interview since winning the election, President-elect Joe Biden declares his administration will not be a third Obama term. So, what will it be?

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[11:26:37]

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BOLDUAN: This is not a third Obama term because we face a totally different world than we faced in the Obama/Biden administration.

It's a totally different -- that's why I found people who joined the administration in key points that represent the spectrum of the American people as well as the spectrum of the Democratic Party.

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BOLDUAN: That's president-elect Joe Biden saying clearly what his administration will not be, will not be a third term for Barack Obama. So, what then will the Biden presidency be? We're starting to get a sense.

Joining us right now is someone who would know a little bit about presidential transitions, the top Obama - a top Obama transition official and former deputy White House chief of staff to President Obama, Jim Messina. It's good to see you again, Jim.

So, you may be biased on this one, I'm going to say that straight out. But what is Biden getting at when he so quickly says that this is not going to be a third term of Obama? Because from your perspective, would that be a bad thing?

JIM MESSINA, FORMER DIRECTOR OF PERSONNEL FOR OBAMA-BIDEN TRANSITION: Well, look, I think it's true. The world has changed because of the pandemic. We walk into a situation where we're going to have to reinvent health care delivery, the economy has changed in ways we're now just starting to grapple with.

And we have world leaders on the world stage that has drastically changed in the four years since the vice president left office. So, I think he's honest and right that everything has changed and he's building a team to confront those challenges, not the challenges that we walked into in 2008.

BOLDUAN: What does it get to though? Because obviously, even Lester Holt said, speak to people who think this is going to be a third term for Barack Obama. What Biden is getting at is something -- is something even deeper than that?

MESSINA: What he's getting at is what he wants to do and, and I think he's done is build a team of competence that can lower the politics in this country, Kate. And if you think about the people he's picked. I know every single one of them. They have two things in common. They are really competent, and they have a direct connection to the vice president. Which is incredibly important because they are his team, not Barack Obama's team, and not my team, they are his team.

And as you can (AUDIO GAP) all these things, the people he's picked are people that he's comfortable with, that understand what he wants to do. And I think that's the most important thing. Every one of these people he's picked, he has a real relationship with and they can speak for him on the world stage.

BOLDUAN: Biden also said that he is open to having Republicans in his cabinet. On the flip side, I want to play for you what he said when he was asked about Democrat Elizabeth Warren and Independent Bernie Sanders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BIDEN: We already have significant representation among progressives in our administration but there's nothing really off the table. One thing is really critical, taking someone out of the Senate, taking someone out of the House, particularly for a personal consequence, is really a difficult decision that would have to be made. I have a very ambitious, very progressive agenda, and it's going to take really strong leaders in the House and Senate to get it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: So, Jim, is that a no? And if so, is that a problem?

MESSINA: I think it's the right decision. I think you can argue that we made a mistake in picking senators for a couple cabinet positions because they opened up seats where they later had to defend. You remember very well us losing Ted Kennedy's Senate seat after he passed. We barely held on to the Colorado seat of Ken Salazar.