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Thanksgiving Could Be "Mother" Of Superspreader Events; Food Banks Overwhelmed As Pandemic Exacerbates Hunger Crisis; Millions Ignore CDC Guidelines, Proceed With Holiday Travel Plans; Mental Health Issues Likely To Surge During The Holiday. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired November 25, 2020 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here in Colorado, hospitalizations are spiking with just 25 ICU beds available in the city of Denver. That's according to the governor. The city mayor, meanwhile, in some hot water today after urging residents to avoid holiday travel in a tweet, then hours later boarding a plane himself to spend Thanksgiving with his wife and his daughter in Mississippi, Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: You're going to talk the talk, you got to walk the walk too. Lucy Kafanov, thank you. I want to stay on all of this and especially Thanksgiving and COVID, so with me now our Medical Analysts here at CNN, Dr. Leana Wen. She is the former Baltimore Health Commissioner, an Emergency Room Physician at George Washington University.

So, Dr. Wen, good to have you back. And, you know, how worried are you about a post-Thanksgiving surge in COVID cases and in hospitalizations?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I'm extremely worried, Brooke, because we have an impending calamity on our hands. I mean, it's like knowing that there is a train that's coming towards us, and it's going to kill a lot of people. And knowing that this is going to happen, because we are already seeing a surge in the number of cases, we're already seeing hospitals that are on the brink. And now we're going to have a surge on top of a surge because we've had a surge every time there's been a major holiday.

And with this amount of travel that's happening with the cold weather, we know that there is tragedy coming our way. And so, I just cannot add even more to this plead to please wear masks, but also really do not do indoor gatherings at this time. It just is not safe.

BROOKE: I appreciate you saying that and, of course we wish everyone just the safest, safest possible Thanksgiving. I have a feeling we'll be talking about that after the holiday, you and I. In the meantime, what about our young people? I know you have a new op-ed in Washington Post, writing about how most schools should stay closed through winter. Make your case.

WEN: So the American Academy of Pediatrics just reported data that 144,000 children got infected with COVID-19 in just a week. We have states, 28 states, as of last count, have test positivity over 10 percent, which the CDC says is the highest risk of transmission within schools.

And so, look, with mitigation measures, a lot of schools can be safe. But many schools also have not had the resources to put in those measures. And while I agree with the data, then schools are not the primary contributor to community spread. That's not much reassurance to the teachers and staff who are working within these schools, because with that level of community spread there is risk to them as individuals. And so, I'm not saying that schools shouldn't be prioritized. They actually really shouldn't be schools are absolutely essential.

But then that's up to us as a society to keep our community transmission low. We shouldn't make teachers and staff shoulder that burden of our failures.

BALDWIN: Here's another perspective, and I want you to respond to this, because this is coming from the head of the CDC in an interview just yesterday, Dr. Robert Redfield. And he says, the community should make decisions, you know, about whether to close schools during the coronavirus search based on data, not on emotion.

A quote from him is, at a national level, we've seen that really the K through 12 schools have not been a source for significant outbreaks. And he says that schools are being saved and the chance to spread is low. Then, shouldn't you be weighing that the mental health and socialization, and learning part, Dr. Wen, of it just as much as anything else?

WEN: Yes. I mean, I really agree with him on those points. I'm a mom of two young kids that my mother was a schoolteacher. I used to run school health in Baltimore. I mean, I really understand the reasons why schools should be open for in-person instruction.

Here's the problem. We don't have sufficient testing. We don't have sufficient contact tracing. We don't have the PPE and the other investments in our schools, like improved ventilation for many of our schools. For some of our schools, we do, and they should still be able to open.

But for other schools, we also have to think about the teachers, the janitors, the bus drivers, the individuals who have to come to work. And it just seems like we're putting the burden, the failure of our society, once again, on our teachers.

BALDWIN: Dr. Leana Wen, I appreciate that and I just want our young people to be alright. Dr. Wen, we'll talk again. Thank you so much.

.Thousands of Americans are lining up for much needed food assistance this week, but the organizations that are fighting to help, they're now struggling just to keep up. We'll talk about that next.

[15:34:33]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: As this pandemic collides with the holiday season, we were reminded really much more than ever how much Americans are suffering. The threat of eviction, the loss of a job, the pain of hunger also bring realities right now. And it is so bad that food banks are completely overwhelmed by the increased demand this year, as tens of thousands of Americans line up across the country.

Look at those lines, just the cars that the nonprofit Feeding America projects more than 50 million Americans may face food insecurity in 2020. That means one in six people, including one in four children. Joining me now Kellie O'Connell, the CEO of Lakeview Pantry in Chicago.

[15:40:03]

Kellie, thank you for all the work that you're doing. Can you just, first, tell me some stories about some of the folks who've been coming by? And how many of them are coming to you for assistance for the first time?

KELLIE O'CONNELL, CEO, LAKEVIEW PANTRY: Sure. Well, thanks for having me. It's such an important story to tell. You know, I was able to serve on the lines on Monday and I met a family who came to us for the first time. It was a family of four. Both parents worked in the hospitality industry, one a server, one a bartender. And unfortunately, they had saved up but after eight months at this, they had gone through their rainy day fund. And so, they came to us to be able to put food on their table this Thanksgiving.

BALDWIN: Do you ever see kids in the cars?

O'CONNELL: Yes. So, this family had a six and an eight-year-old, and one of the parents stayed in the car, because they were a little bit embarrassed about how they were getting food. And so, that's really tough.

BALDWIN: I want to ask you about that. I'm so glad you mentioned that because I know there is a lot of shame in asking for a little bit of help, right? There is this stigma around it, how do you help put people at ease?

O'CONNELL: Yes. One of the things we're really focused on here at Lakeview Pantry in normal times are, the site looks like a grocery store. So you come in and you get to choose the food that you want. And we really pride ourselves on treating everybody with respect and dignity. And I know so many of my colleagues across the country do that too.

And so, it's just making people feel comfortable and making people feel like this is, you know, sort of normalizing it a little bit and making it about a temporary situation, not letting it define who you are.

BALDWIN: What is the one item that these recipients most need, and for people watching, whether they're there in Chicago can physically come to you and donate or just anywhere else around the country? What's your best advice just telling people watching can help?

O'CONNELL: Oh, there are so many ways to help. I think if you want to volunteer, you can, you know, volunteer with your local food pantry or food bank. If you want to donate food, I think shelf-stable is probably the easiest. But if you are able to donate money to us, we can make that go so much further and buy things like produce and protein, which our families need so much of.

BALDWIN: Produce and protein. Kellie O'Connell, thank you so much in Chicago. Appreciate you.

O'CONNELL: Yes, thank you so much.

BALDWIN: You got it. Coming up next, how airlines are trying to keep passengers safe as millions ignore the holiday travel warnings.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:00]

BALDWIN: Millions of people are heading home for Thanksgiving and at the same time ignoring the CDC's advice to stay put. Take a look at this. You will see the sky. Here we go, just above North America. This is yesterday at noon. All those yellow specks are planes in motion. According to the TSA, almost a million people pass through security across America's airports on Tuesday alone.

With me now Tariro Mzezewa, Travel Reporter for the New York Times. And, Tariro, it is so nice to have you back on the show. And let me just begin with, first of all, a lot a lot of people flying, right, a lot of people are like, I still need to see my people even though they're not really supposed to. For people who have not flown this year, who are flying for the first time since the pandemic started, what are airlines requiring?

TARIRO MZEZEWA, TRAVEL REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: OK. So airlines are requiring that you wear a mask, some of them are giving out masks. And they're also requiring that you basically take the same precautions that you're taking when you're not flying. So you're supposed to be like social distancing, making sure you've got your mask, you've got your hand sanitizer, those kinds of precautions.

BALDWIN: And before you go to place X from place Y, do you need to show a negative COVID test to someone or how is that supposed to work?

MZEZEWA: So that really depends, right? We know some destinations like Hawaii are, and a number of the Caribbean countries, are saying, if you test negative before you come, then you can come, right? And that will allow you to skip the mandatory 14-day quarantine. And if you arrive before you've gotten your test results, then, you know, you quarantine until you get your results, then we'll let you come out of quarantine.

But, of course, in most cases, that doesn't mean that you're getting on the plane knowing what your result is. Like you could test positive, not know, and then get on the plane, right? And even if you do test negative, we've seen that a test result isn't always accurate. You could not have the buyers, when you test for it, and get it while you're traveling, or between the time that you test and the time that you travel.

So, you know, a negative test isn't a free pass to just travel irresponsibly. You still have to take all those other precautions.

BALDWIN: Thank you for saying that. What's your biggest piece of advice for people who are traveling, Tariro?

MZEZEWA: Don't fly if you don't have to. Stay home. You know, I think if you can afford to skip this Thanksgiving so we have future Thanksgivings. It's really important to heed that advice that we've gotten from the CDC and all the healthcare workers who've been asking people to stay home and to not go on these long trips, and to just, you know, sit and wait it out this time around.

BALDWIN: One more question for you and this is for people who are, not now but maybe in the comment and coming months, as we know that the White House is strongly considering lifting the sweeping restrictions on travel from Europe. What are you hearing about that? And when and if that does happen, Tariro, what will that look like?

[15:50:04]

MZEZEWA: So I do not know. You know, I don't have any sort of confirmation about that, to be totally honest. But I think we can all imagine some of the concerns that might come with that. One thing we do know is that some airlines are saying, you'll need to have, well, you'll need to test negative before you travel, which we just talked about. But we also know that Qantas, which is necessarily dealing with Europe, but we could see this spread to flights to Europe is saying, we'll want to know that you're vaccinated, right?

So that's one of the changes we'll see at that point. I think when travel does return, it will be quite different.

BALDWIN: I'm glad you brought that up with Qantas. Yes, it's like questions about we'll let you on the plane but only if you show proof of vaccination or we'll let you on the plane but only if you show proof of negative COVID test. That is a whole other world. I have a feeling we're about to enter. We'll be talking about it. In the meantime, happy, happy Thanksgiving.

MZEZEWA: You too, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Staying put right here in New York. Tariro, great to have you on.

As we head into a Thanksgiving unlike any other, we'll talk about the toll the pandemic is taking on our mental health. How to make sure your friends, your family, yourself, you're doing all right even if you can't be with your loved ones. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:55:40]

BALDWIN: We are entering into a holiday season unlike anything most of us have really ever seen before. The realities of this pandemic mean we should consciously avoid the kind of gatherings we crave this time of year. The big family dinners, shopping in crowded stores for gifts, holiday parties with friends, visiting Santa, all being skipped this year, and it will take a huge emotional toll on us.

Psychotherapist Robi Ludwig is with me. And, Robbie, thank you so much for coming on. I feel like this is -- I'm glad we're having this conversation out loud on national TV. You know, I was just talking about, you know, all the people traveling, right, you know, going through the airports, but what do you make of the fact that so many people are like CDC guidelines, pssh. I mean, they're risking their own health, you know, just to see their loved ones.

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: There is something called pandemic fatigue. So people are really tired of missing out and putting their life on hold. And in some cases, the science is changing. So people are picking and choosing what they want to believe. And then, of course, there's always, you know, that group of people, those groups of people who, like the challenge, really feel that COVID won't impact them, or they don't know anyone who has been impacted. So it's worth the risk.

BALDWIN: I want to come back to your phrase COVID fatigue because my producers and I were talking about this today. The fact that, you know, you look at the calendar. We are nine months into this thing. People are, some people are whether they're -- it's just blatant disregard for the guidelines. They're just getting sloppy. How worried are you that people will engage in increasingly risky behavior in the coming months?

LUDWIG: Well, here's the thing with COVID. You can think that you're following the CDC recommendations and still put people in harm's way. It's not foolproof. And any physician will tell you that. You can take a test, have it be negative, and then it could turn positive later.

So, we really need to connect our behavior with purpose, and how it can be part of the greater good, you know, in terms of slowing the spread. This is not forever, we just need to hold on a little while longer and make smart decisions that are healthy for us in those we love.

BALDWIN: Robi, what about the holidays specifically? You know, so many people are going to be alone. The holidays are already a tough sometimes triggering time for people. How -- what advice do you have just in terms of coping?

LUDWIG: Well, socially distant is not emotionally distant. So if you cannot be with those that you love, figure out a support group for yourself. You can have a group of five people that you meet via Zoom or that you can call, write letters to those that you love.

Find different ways to take care of yourself. You can acknowledge that this is a really difficult time. Take a deep breath, get emotionally centered, access your inner strain.

Find the silver lining. There is a silver lining here in terms of what are we grateful for, what can we appreciate in our lives, what do we want to create for ourselves, how do we want to come out of this better. So it's a matter of shifting your perspective until we get through to the other side.

BALDWIN: You know, listen, I have my moments too. I tell my producer Randy all the time, like if I'm having a moment, you should see the notes section of my phone. I have my own mini come to Jesus myself in my notes section.

And I'm just wondering, now I'm looking at your comment about you know, trying to look on the bright side. And sometimes it's so hard. Like, you look at the total cases. You look at the numbers on the screen. You watch the news. Just some of it is so depressing. Thirty seconds, just final thought on how to look at the bright side.

LUDWIG: Yes. Well, gain some perspective. If you have spiritual readings that work for you, that's a great idea. Manage your social media and news, and also eat healthy, get sleep. Make sure that you're exercising and make sure to monitor your thoughts. That all helps to living a healthier, happier life even during a pandemic or especially during a pandemic.

BALDWIN: Yes. Robi, thank you so much. Robi Ludwig on all that's important here as we get through the holidays. Happy early Thanksgiving to you and thank you for being here. I'll see you tomorrow. "THE LEAD" starts right now.