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Coronavirus Surging as Nation Celebrates Thanksgiving; Experts Raise Questions About AstraZeneca's Vaccine Data; Trump Pardons Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired November 26, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: Good morning, everyone. Happy Thanksgiving. I'm so glad you're with me this morning I'm Poppy Harlow. This is a special holiday edition of CNN Newsroom. Jim has a well-deserved day off.

And today, we are all giving thanks. And for many, we are giving up the traditions that we hold dear. Now is the time to stay strong because this pandemic is getting worse and worse by the day. Just yesterday, the United States recorded 181,000 new COVID cases, and for the second straight day, the virus killed more than 2,000 Americans. Health experts are warning about a surge on a surge.

And a new forecast just out from the CDC says nearly 60,000 more people will die from this virus in the next three weeks. In Miami-Dade County, the number of patients with COVID-19 that need ventilators has increased 44 percent in just the last two weeks.

So that's where we begin with my colleague, Rosa Flores, she joins us in Miami. That is a terrifying statistic. Are the hospitals able to keep up?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right now they are, Poppy. You can probably remember back in July, we were talking about this in the number -- total number of patients was in about 2,000s, about 2,000. Now, it's 664. The number is lower. But, of course, medical experts are worried about the trajectory because the numbers continue to increase.

Now, process this with me for just a moment because the total number of deaths here in the United States exceeds 262,000. Now, the latest model from the University of Washington projects that number could grow to 471,000 by March 1st. That's why medical experts are so worried by this, that's why during Thanksgiving, they're asking people not to gather again because of the trajectory of these numbers.

As Poppy mentioned, the numbers here in the United States, the COVID- 19 infections are surging. Just yesterday, the United States reported more than 181,000 cases. The number of hospitalizations is nearing 90,000 and the death toll continues to increase. It's been more than 2,000 for several days, including yesterday which it neared 2,300. Now, here in Miami-Dade County where I am, according to county data, the number of hospitalizations has increased by 25 percent in the past two weeks. Number of ICUs up 43 percent during that same time period and the number of ventilators up 44 percent.

Now, Poppy, you and I have talked about Miami-Dade a lot. And I can tell you that the local leaders are very worried and they're asking Governor Ron DeSantis to do more. They're asking for a mask mandate statewide, they're asking him for more power, because when he reopened the state in one swoop back in September, he stripped mayors from powers that they had to impose mitigating measures, including he barred them from fining individuals that violated the mask mandate.

Now, ask some of the mayors in Miami and they tell you that that's one of the mitigating measures that was really working here. They don't have that power anymore. Poppy?

HARLOW: Yes. I mean, I'm so glad you brought that up. I had forgotten that that happened and their hands are tied on that front. Rosa, thank you for that reporting.

Well, happening right now, the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade in New York City is happening this year, but it's looking a little bit different.

Let's get to our colleague, Evan McMorris-Santoro, he is here in New York where usually, Evan, you would be in a sea of people looking for the best eye line to see the parade. It's very different this year but they're still doing it, bringing a little cheer into people's homes.

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Poppy. I mean, the idea is that it's still New York, it's still Thanksgiving, let's have a parade. There's not much of a parade this year. It's very different designed around the pandemic. So, it's mostly a T.V. production. The 2.5 mile route that usually goes on has been cut down. There really isn't much to see.

This is basically the best place you can be. And you can see they are doing some balloons. The Boss Baby down there is going down the road there. We've got Macy's star and some kind of artistic octopus thing, which I think is very cool but I really don't know what it is.

I have with me -- people have come down to look at this, even though there isn't much to see. I have with me Zenith, who is a New Yorker. And, Zenith, just tell me a bit about -- this is the end of a long year for New York and this parade has been changed by the pandemic. Tell me what it's been like to be in New York and how you feel right now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel like New York is tough, New York is resilient and New York will always come back strong and find a way to celebrate the holidays and to commemorate what -- how thankful we are this year.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Why was it important to you to leave your house, come out in the rain and watch balloons you can see move down half a block?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, I'm from L.A. and we grew up watching the Rose Parade every year on New Year's.

[10:05:01]

so it was a really big, it's all really special to be here on Thanksgiving and to see what New Yorkers do and --

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Got it. Great, thank you so much.

So, Poppy, that's it. The scene out here, people are feeling festive even though it's a very different parade people trying to stay safe in the pandemic, Poppy.

HARLOW: That's good, safety matters. Evan, I think they should give you this assignment every year. I want you to work every Thanksgiving because only you can find the artistic octopus.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Well, I'm having the time of my life, I will say. I mean, it's a cool balloon, isn't it?

HARLOW: It's a very cool balloon, Evan. Don't have too much fun. Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving.

Well, we turn now to a very serious, very important development overnight with the Supreme Court, the high court siding with religious groups and against COVID-19 restrictions that were put in place by New York's governor, Andrew Cuomo.

Our Supreme Court Analyst, Joan Biskupic, joins me now.

A 5-4 decision and a hugely important one and, of course, key vote, Amy Coney Barrett.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Happy Thanksgiving, Poppy.

HARLOW: You too.

BISKUPIC: This came right at midnight last night, 5-4, and six opinions, a very stunning decision with a lot of anger among the justices. First of all, what they said, the majority said were the restrictions on churches and synagogues were likely violated the free exercise of religion. The majority pointed out that there were lesser restrictions on retail establishments and other shopping-type outlets that contrasted with what was being put onto churches.

And the majority also said that there hadn't been any evidence that COVID had been spread through these services. But then two of the justices in the majority, Justices Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh, broke off to reiterate points about religion in this time of COVID and Justice Gorsuch was especially tough, saying, it's as if the Constitution has taken a holiday.

Chief Justice John Roberts was in dissent, a rare position for him, Poppy. And he said we don't have to do this right now. Governor Cuomo is still working out restrictions, the restrictions that were appealed to us aren't in effect right now. There is no need for us to intervene in this way. And Justice Sotomayor and Kagan wrote separately also to say, you're denying the input of mental health officials here, very important information.

HARLOW: And, Joan, this is really completely the opposite of the decision -- the decisions the high court made earlier this year about churches in California and Nevada. The only difference then -- or one of the key differences was the late Justice Ginsburg was sitting on the bench now it's you Justice Barrett.

BISKUPIC: Yes. This late night order with these opinions is the direct result of Justice Amy Coney Barrett seceding Justice Ginsburg because she is in the majority saying we cannot let these restrictions in New York on churches and synagogues stand. A very, very important development here, and not only for the bottom line but in terms of relations among these nine justices, you can feel the anger, as I said, the remaining liberals are saying, denying health considerations here at a time of COVID.

HARLOW: Joan Biskupic, thank you very much. I appreciate you coming in on Thanksgiving because this is really significant.

BISKUPIC: It is.

HARLOW: Happy Thanksgiving.

BISKUPIC: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Okay. President-elect Joe Biden and the future first lady are offering an empathetic message in a new opinion piece they published this morning on cnn.com. It's really a message to the American people on Thanksgiving.

And in it, they write, like millions of Americans, we're temporarily letting go on the traditions we can't do safely. It is not a small sacrifice. These moments with our loved ones, and that's -- time is lost cannot be returned. Yet we know it's the price of protecting each other and one we do not pay alone.

David Swerdlick is with me, CNN Political Commentator and Assistant Editor at The Washington Post. Good morning, Happy Thanksgiving, David.

DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Poppy. Happy Thanksgiving. How are you?

HARLOW: I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm glad to be with you.

This morning, reading that from the Bidens after hearing yesterday the president-elect at the podium saying, the American people deserve to always be told the truth from their president. It stands in really stark contrast, the last 24 hours, we've seen the current president still trying to convince everyone that the election was rigged and pardoning the national security adviser that lied to the FBI and to the vice president. It's just a stark contrast. SWERDLICK: Yes, Poppy, it's a stark contrast to the last 24 hours, to the last month and to the last year. President Trump, I think by any objective standard, has not taken a reality-based, all-hands to the pump approach to the coronavirus pandemic, and here we are blowing past a quarter million American deaths on our way to 300,000 American deaths.

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I see the op-ed on cnn.com by the president-elect, by Dr. Biden, as trying to accomplish three things, one, trying to re-establish a sober, hopeful but reality-based tone. They also talked about thanking the people who are out there on the frontlines, everybody, from doctors and nurses to people who work in grocery stores and drugstores.

And also, saying, look, even if we can't be with our loved ones on this Thanksgiving, my wife and I are here at home, not with our family like we normally would be, we can still be thankful for the things that we do have. And trying to sort of establish himself as saying, look, this is how the Biden presidency is going to be, even if you've been accustomed to the Trump presidency.

HARLOW: So, David, they're really important words, for sure, and the message of unity and bringing people together matters and this country desperately needs it. But as we saw in the exit polling from the election, it was like the fifth most important thing -- fourth or fifth most important things to folks that they voted on.

I just wonder what actions you think are necessary after January 20th to accomplish that, right? He said this week to Lester Holt, he may nominate a Republican to be part of his cabinet, that might do some of it, but that won't do all of it in terms of unifying the country.

SWERDLICK: No, that's right, Poppy. Upwards of 70 million people liked and wanted four more years of President Trump. Almost 80 million people liked and wanted four years of President-elect Biden. That wasn't the top line issue, the pandemic. This was a referendum on Trump or no Trump.

And, look, President-elect Biden, the Biden/Harris administration, is going to have harder things to do than write op-eds. Next year, they're going to have to get people to wear masks, they're going to have to roll out the vaccine when it comes online, whenever it does come online. I'm sorry, I live here in downtown D.C. You may hear sirens in the back.

HARLOW: That's all right, It is life.

SWERDLICK: It is life.

So, look, we have a situation here where there's a lot of work to do. And I think right now, what Biden is trying to do is set that tone and get people to focus on the pandemic where, like you said, it didn't wind up being an issue, strangely enough, that decided the election.

HARLOW: Yes, it really is. The hard work is to come, for sure. David Swerdlick, Happy Thanksgiving, thank you for being here.

SWERDLICK: Happy Thanksgiving, Poppy.

HARLOW: Still to come, COVID vaccines have yet to be authorized by the FDA but states are already reporting already how many doses they think they're going to get as soon as next month. We'll have an update on that.

And the president yesterday pardoning Michael Flynn, who could be next.

And one thing this pandemic has shown a light on, the staggering digital divide across this country and what it means for our children, for our students. We're going to be joined by a student and his mother who are living this struggle.

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HARLOW: Welcome back. Well, pharmaceutical giant, AstraZeneca, is facing some serious questions about its COVID vaccine trial. AstraZaeneca admits that they made a mistake in the vaccine dosage received by some of the volunteers. Experts are also pointing to missing data in the recent press release announcing the efficacy results and the lack of information about two participants who got sick before the trial was paused back in September.

Joining us now is CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Lena Wen, she's an emergency room physician at Georg Washington University and formerly the health commissioner of Baltimore. Good morning, thanks for being here, especially on Thanksgiving.

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Good morning, and Happy Thanksgiving.

HARLOW: You too. Dr. Wen, when you hear that about AstraZeneca, that they -- there was a portion in the trial of their participants that they gave half the dose to, they needed to give them a full dose, they gave them half. I mean, that's a big problem. And as Elizabeth Cohen pointed out last hour, there are a lot of question marks about how they get to their efficacy rate that they are now publishing.

What I worry about is that that might make people not trust all of the vaccines that are about to go through the FDA process. What's your message to everyone this morning on this?

WEN: Well, it is really critical that we have transparent and credible data from the pharmaceutical companies. But this is the reason why we have a regulatory process. I trust that the FDA is going to do everything they can to ensure that the data are sound, to ensure that they are not taking any shortcuts when it comes to the science.

I do hope that they're going to make all the data transparent and available to everyone so that the entire biomedical and scientific community can examine those data. But I want Americans know that we should have faith in the process. And, ultimately, having a vaccine is not what's going to save us from this pandemic, it's having the vaccination. And so it needs to be safe, it needs to be effective but also needs to be trusted by the public.

HARLOW: To be really clear though, these issues AstraZeneca is facing now, Pfizer did not go through them, Moderna did not go through them. So people should not lump this all together. Okay.

What about children? There's a top FDA official who is now saying that children are likely going to be recruited into these trials, Moderna, Pfizer, on and on, pretty soon. Right now, Pfizer has started the trial on kids as young as 12. But I think about our kids, we both have really little kids at home, what does that tell you for how many more months until we can start vaccinating our toddlers?

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WEN: Yes, it's going to take some time. And I'm not sure we know how long that is, but I would anticipate probably not before late spring, early summer. And that's because trials first have to be undergo -- have to be underway for older kids and then we start in the toddler category and then in infants. And so it will take time but I'm optimistic that those trials will be expedited, again, not in a way that takes shortcuts to science but in a way that really gets us the vaccine to everyone as soon as possible.

HARLOW: You wrote a really important op-ed this week, as you often do, but this one is particularly striking that I think everyone should read. And you're arguing that we need to keep our schools closed through the winter. That's hard for a lot of parents to hear. It was hard for me to read. Make the case.

WEN: So a lot of people have been saying, while schools are not contributing much to community transmission and bars are open, so why shouldn't schools be open? Well, first of all, maybe these bars should actually be closed. But the other thing too, just because there isn't much contribution to community transmission doesn't mean that there isn't individual risk to the teachers and staff who are working at the schools.

The American Academy of Pediatrics reported 144,000 children who were infected in a week, and that's a significant underestimate given the amount of testing that we have. Also, according to the CDC's own guidelines, more than half the states are at highest risk of transmission within schools. And so I definitely think that schools can make the conditions safe but they really need to be investing in ventilation, in decreasing capacity in the schools and it's just unfair for us to put the burden of the failure in our society to control COVID on teachers and staff who work in the schools.

Now, I'm not saying every school should close. Actually, I think a lot of schools that had put in mitigation measures should remain open. and also children with special needs, young kids, other kids who cannot virtual learning should still be in school and essentially workers still daycare for their kids too. So it's not that all should close. But let's flip this. Let's not have the default, be that schools should be open regardless but let's make schools safe first.

HARLOW: It's a fair and important argument and you're right about kids with special needs, those who don't have laptops, 60,000 of them in New York City still waiting for their digital devices so they can't get remote learning right now. A building should be open for them with computers right now. It's just unfair.

Dr. Wen, thank you. Have a good Thanksgiving.

WEN: You too, Poppy. Thank you.

HARLOW: Well, coming up the president is spending his final days in office literally phoning it in. Two Pennsylvania lawmakers upset talking to them about voter fraud without any evidence. how long will he keep up these fights?

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HARLOW: A president's prerogative or abuse of power or both? President Trump granting a full pardon to his former national security adviser, Michael Flynn. Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI twice during Robert Mueller's Russia investigation. Multiple sources tell CNN the president is expected to issue a string of additional pardons before he leaves the White House.

Jim Schultz is here, a former Trump White House lawyer and CNN Legal commentator. It's been a minute. It's good to have you. Thanks for joining us.

JIM SCHULTZ, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: Great to be back, Poppy.

HARLOW: Your reaction to Flynn, who I'll just remind people, yes, the president can do this, but there's a lot here with Flynn. I mean, he lied to the FBI twice, he lied to the vice president, the president fired him and he was cooperating with the Mueller investigation up to a point, so much so that Mueller said in documentation that it was providing valuable information for the future. What do you make of the president's pardon?

SCHULTZ: I think we have to remember that this was still before court. I think it's before Judge Sullivan in D.C. And the Justice Department had sought to drop the charges on this and it made basically that it was an entrapment scheme and that they sought to -- and that the case couldn't go forward because it wasn't credible because of potential entrapment scheme. And that was sitting before Judge Sullivan and awaiting a ruling probably any day now.

The Justice Department actually said that they would have preferred that the president wait until the ruling came out but it's well within his prerogative to make that judgment call. And I think given that fact, that I imagine the president was sitting back thinking, this is something the Justice Department doesn't want to proceed with. There's no -- at this point in time, if the Justice Department doesn't want to proceed forward, he feels it's the right time to issue clemency in this case, it's well within his province as president to issue that and he made a determination to do it.

HARLOW: All right. He can do it, I said that at the outset. The question is about all of the other things that I mentioned before asking the question.