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Trump Retweets Congressman Who Says He Should Pardon Himself; China's Xi Congratulates Biden, But Russia's Putin Still Refusing; Liberal Backlash Against A Possible Biden Pick At CIA. Aired 12:30-1p ET
Aired November 26, 2020 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:30:00]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Thanks so much.
KAITLAN COLLINS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, don't worry about us.
SANCHEZ: For many, Flynn's pardon is a sign of the power that President Trump is willing to wield on his way out the door. And because of that, many are now actively seeking his favor. "The New York Times" reports quote, potential pardon seekers and their allies are discussing a range of strategies to win over the president. They include highlighting donations to Mr. Trump, spending money at his properties, trying to hire lawyers or lobbyists seen as close to him and emphasizing business connections that could help Mr. Trump after he leaves office.
With us to discuss CNN political commentator and the host of SE Cupp Unfiltered here on CNN, SE Cupp, thanks so much for joining us SE. Hope you're having a good Thanksgiving. What I just read there, is this what normally happens without going presidents except it's not as transparent?
SE CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, look, Boris, you know, me, it is not hard for me to locate my outrage about all kinds of things that Donald Trump says and does. But yes, I actually think it's time to look at the power of the pardon not because of what Donald Trump is doing, but because for decades, if not centuries, and in fact, over multiple administrations, the power of the pardon has been abused.
And so where Donald Trump has taken pardons today and may take them over the next few weeks, months, is almost inevitable. I mean, looking back I'm sure our viewers remember, pardon gate on Bill Clinton's last day in office, he pardoned over 100 people, some of whom were donors and friends, Susan McDougal connected to Whitewater scandal, his half- brother, Roger, Marc Rich, then a fugitive and a friend of Bill Clinton who owned $48 million in taxes. I mean, that was almost indefensible.
And so, where Trump is today is sort of the next logical conclusion of this power. And I think we should start taking a look at whether it is being used and has been used over, again, decades, the way that the founders intended it.
SANCHEZ: Yes. And I'm curious to get your perspective on this and maybe how the founders intended pardoned to be used when it comes to pardoning yourself.
CUPP: Right.
SANCHEZ: Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz, tweeting out suggesting the President should issue a slew of pardons, including himself. The President retweeted this, what do you think?
CUPP: Yes, I think you Asha, Asha Rangappa on earlier --
SANCHEZ: Right.
CUPP: -- and I think she really hit it on the head and certainly knows more about the legality of all of this than I do. But this would actually be pretty unadvisable for the President to do, because it's an admission that you've done something wrong. If the President has designs on, I don't know, running again for President, this would certainly imperil that. And I would think encourage other Justice Departments to really look at what he had done while in office, if he's tacitly admitting he needed to be pardoned for stuff. So I'm not sure if this is constitutional or legal, but it seems pretty clear that it would be advisable for him to do that.
SANCHEZ: Yes. Now, I want to talk to you about the new op-ed that you wrote, it's titled "to the Republicans telling the truth, thank you. This was one of the smoothest elections ever". I'm curious about what Republicans specifically you're referencing?
CUPP: Well, this was an op-ed that that my friend and colleague Van Jones, brought up to me. This idea that while we have all rightly pointed out the lack of courage in the GOP, the Republicans who've been so willing to go along with President Trump's baseless claims of fraud and rigged elections, local and state Republicans all over the country in places like Michigan and Pennsylvania and Georgia, have worked really hard to do a good job to certify this election.
They've worked against insurmountable odds, right, a pandemic, incredible pressure coming from, you know, the very top. And they've done the right thing. And while we wish that we're sort of just rote and commonplace and undeserving of banks, I think it is worth giving credit where credit is due and acknowledging, as Van and I do from a bipartisan point of view, this election has been incredibly smooth, given the extraordinary circumstances that it occurred in. And so thanking those local and state level Republicans and election officials I think is important, especially on Thanksgiving.
SANCHEZ: Yes, certainly, and especially given the amount of pressure that they face within the party coming from the President himself, you have the Secretary of State of Georgia saying that President threw him and his family under the bus despite their support, important to be grateful for the important work of these folks. SE Cupp, thanks so much. Enjoy the rest of your Thanksgiving.
[12:35:05]
CUPP: Thanks, you too Boris.
SANCHEZ: Of course.
Still ahead, Senator Marco Rubio says media coverage of the coronavirus pandemic is just focused on the bad news. So what is the good news he thinks that we missed?
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SANCHEZ: Over 300,000 deaths by mid-December. That is the sobering forecast from the CDC today which is published a new projection that the U.S. could reach as many as 321,000 deaths from COVID-19 in just the next three weeks. CNN's Elizabeth Cohen has more.
[12:40:04]
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Boris, the CDC has new projections about the number of people who will die from coronavirus. And these numbers are very high. Let's take a look. Currently there have been just over 262,000 deaths in the United States from coronavirus. The CDC projects that by December 19th, we could have as many as 321,000. That is a large leap in a relatively short period of time.
And unfortunately, we're also seeing a leap in cases and actually, there may have been more cases than anyone thought. These are also CDC numbers. Let's take a look. In the United States through the end of September, there were 7 million symptomatic cases reported. However, the CDC scientists said there could have been as many as 42 million symptomatic cases in reality. However, even with all those people who were sick, 84 percent of the country has still not been infected. And so that means that we still need to take all of the precautions we've been talking about, wearing a mask, social distancing, washing your hands. Boris?
SANCHEZ: All right. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much for that.
That last report may not be well received by Republican Senator Marco Rubio. Rubio is taken to Twitter to complain that coverage of the pandemic is politically biased. Writing quote, on COVID, media emphasized bad news even when we had positive developments, part of a broader pattern of characterizing everything as bad news Republicans are to be blamed for.
I'm not exactly sure how else we could find a way to frame or dig up optimism other than recent positive news about a vaccine regarding a global pandemic that's killed more than 262,000 Americans so far and crippled our economy. Joining me now to discuss is Susan Glasser. She's a CNN global affairs analyst, a staff writer for The New Yorker. And I don't think Peter would mind if I say the better half of the co- authoring duo of the new book, " The Man Who Ran Washington: The Life and Times of James A. Baker. Susan, thanks so much for spending part of your Thanksgiving with us. There's been speculation about some of Rubio's recent tweets that he's sort of imitating Trump's messaging, perhaps testing messaging. What do you think the senator is doing here?
SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, thank you, Boris, and happy Thanksgiving to you too as well. Look, let's be terrible on the holiday and say that, you know, maybe he just misspoke by somehow casting a deadly pandemic as a media story and the idea that we're supposed to have cheery upbeat news about it. You know, it's interesting that you said perhaps he's imitating President Trump.
I have noticed a much more strident tone coming from Senator Rubio in recent days. I missed the part where he congratulated Vice President, former Vice President Joe Biden, President-elect Joe Biden. And instead he went right the other day to criticizing Biden's new foreign policy team and suggesting he wouldn't be looking favorably on confirming them.
Same thing, when I read that tweet about the media. I think that, you know, he's conflating Congress's lack of action, the White House's lack of action on the coronavirus with somehow a messaging issue. It's not a messaging story when there's 260,000 Americans dead, unfortunately. And the point about the vaccine is an important one. These are major breakthroughs. But it could be misleading if people think that this vaccine is going to happen overnight, it's going to be many more months of suffering. If people don't take the public health precautions and wear masks and maintain social distancing, it's going to be months until they get that vaccine.
SANCHEZ: Yes, you're certainly right about that. The senator also has yet to congratulate President-elect Joe Biden on his victory. China's president has, President Xi, sending a message to President-elect Biden. It took more than two weeks. How do you interpret the weight and I mean, what do you make of the fact that this message was even sent?
GLASSER: Well, look, isn't it amazing, Boris. So here we are weeks after the U.S. presidential election and the new president of the United States has been congratulated by more foreign leaders than Republican members of the Senate. And that includes of course, the leadership in both the House and the Senate of the Republican Party. It's just -- it's such an astonishing and a sort of worrisome thing for American democracy. It's something that's never happened in either of our lifetimes.
As far as the world leaders go, I think it's notable, China both congratulated President-elect Biden. And also just yesterday, there was a message directly from Xi Jinping to President-elect Biden. That leaves Vladimir Putin of Russia holding out along with Donald Trump and those who have defined their loyalty directly to him. It again, it's just an unprecedented situation.
[12:45:02]
I do think that you know, Biden has said he's going to reorient U.S. foreign policy very quickly. I imagine you're going to hear a lot more about our allies, a lot less compliments of adversaries, a return to international institutions like the World Health Organization are going to be front and center in the early days of the new administration.
SANCHEZ: All right, Susan Glasser, thank you so much for the perspective. Enjoy the rest of your holiday.
GLASSER: You too, thank you so much.
SANCHEZ: Thanks.
The President-elect's team facing a big decision, whether to share sensitive information, what happens when Joe Biden inherits the President's secret server? But first, a quick programming note about a new season of a CNN original series, This is Life with Lisa Ling. It premieres with back to back episodes this Sunday night at 9:00 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN.
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[12:50:36]
SANCHEZ: Despite weeks of obstruction from the White House, President- elect Joe Biden is now gaining traction in his transition, this week announcing several key cabinet appointments, notably when missing his nominee for CIA director. Sources tell CNN that two leading contenders are former CIA Acting Director Mike Morell and former National Security Advisor Tom Donilon. CNN national security analyst, Samantha Vinograd joins us now. She's also the former senior adviser to the National Security Adviser in the Obama administration. Sam, I want to ask about Morell in particular. He's drawing swift backlash from some Democrats, Oregon Senator Ron Wyden, a key Democrat calling him a torture apologist over the use of enhanced interrogation techniques. Give us your take.
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Boris, generally speaking these two leading contenders for the role set the gold standard for public service. I worked with Tom Donilon and Mike Morell for several years. They're experts. They're strong leaders. And I've seen the skill set that either would bring to bear as CIA director.
Yesterday, I saw some criticism of Tom Donilon alleging that he worked really hard. I'm a little confused as to why that's a criticism. I can confirm that Tom Donilon fastidiously prepared for all of his roles and responsibilities. I view that as a positive. As to President Obama, he specifically cited Tom's work ethic and his book as critical to helping him do his own job. I don't think any of us want a cabinet official to slack off and the stakes are so high.
And when it comes to Michael Morell, Michael is a 33-year veteran of the Central Intelligence Agency. I would strongly encourage Senator Wyden and any other members of Congress to reread Michael Morell's book. I actually helped work on it. And to reread his public statements. Michael Morell has called waterboarding torture, not to mention the fact that Michael Morell was not even aware of the Enhanced Interrogation Technique or EIT program when it started.
So calling Michael Morell an apologist for torture is inaccurate. And I do think this is something that Michael Morell and Senator Wyden could discuss if Michael Morell is nominated for the position. And when Senator Wyden reviews Michael's record again, I think he would have a different take.
SANCHEZ: What's your perspective on the Biden transition team weighing this sort of public pushback and their decision making over who to nominate?
VINOGRAD: Well, unlike President Trump, I don't think the President- elect that's his potential nominees through the media. I think that President-elect Biden is considering nominees qualifications. He is certainly, I would imagine, listening to different perspectives and concerns that are raised. But we lived through four years of a president who crowd sources opinions on nominees. I don't think that's where this President-elect is looking to gain information about his nominees. He knows Michael Morell, he knows Tom Donilon. And he'll make an informed decision based on all that.
SANCHEZ: Now, Biden nominated Avril Haines to be the next DNI, the Director of National Intelligence. She's faced sort of similar criticism to Morell for her record on torture and her role in drone strikes during the Obama administration. You know her personally. What's your perspective on her pick?
VINOGRAD: My perspective on Avril Haines is that I don't think she will have a problem being confirmed as Director of National Intelligence. I met Avril when she was the senior legal advisor at the National Security Council. I saw her give a political legal advice to then President Obama. I never heard any political commentary or partisan commentary influenced her opinions. And I'm sure as part of the confirmation process, she can speak with members of Congress about her legal position on the drone program and what she would bring to bear as Director of National Intelligence if these issues were raised again.
SANCHEZ: All right, we have to leave it there. Samantha Vinograd, happy Thanksgiving, Sam, hope you have a good one.
VINOGRAD: Happy Thanksgiving, Boris.
SANCHEZ: Thanks so much.
[12:54:36]
Hey, thank you so much for joining us. I'm grateful to get to spend part of my day with you. And don't forget our coverage continues, a Thanksgiving like no other, the President calls for Americans to gather for Thanksgiving despite dire news CDC predictions up to 321,000 deaths in just a matter of weeks.
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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Welcome to a special Thanksgiving edition of CNN Newsroom. I'm Brooke Baldwin, Happy Thanksgiving to all of you. And in the face of so much loss in this country right now, I'm hope we are all able to reflect on how much we have to be grateful for this year because we have some discouraging numbers from the CDC today, forecasting that the death toll from COVID-19 could reach 321,000 by 19th of December.
[13:00:02]
Nearly 2300 people died just yesterday. And almost 90,000 Americans are spending their holiday in a hospital bed.
