Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Calls for Biden to Provide Proof of Election Win; California's COVID-19 Cases Break Records; Trump Loses Pennsylvania Appeals Court Case. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 27, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST, NEWSROOM: Thank goodness for your family.

Just last quick question, you know, the Biden transition is happening, we're about to have a new president in a couple of weeks.

[14:00:00]

They have this entire COVID advisory board. You are in the trenches. If you could tell the president-elect one thing to help your situation, what would it be?

CAROL WILLIAMS, NURSE WITH VIRAL COVID-19 POST: I want the president- elect to take this pandemic as seriously as every single health care worker across the country that's actively caring for COVID-19 patients in any fathom, either ICUs or regular COVID floors.

BALDWIN: Carol Williams, bless you. Thank you so much. Be well.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We continue on, you are watching CNN on this Friday. I'm Brooke Baldwin, thank you for being with me.

The president tries to change his mind after saying out loud what he wouldn't for 19 days, that he will leave when the Electoral College seats Joe Biden as the next president of the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So if the Electoral College does elect President-elect Joe Biden are you not going to leave this building?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Just so you -- certainly I will, certainly I will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TEXT: Donald J. Trump: Biden can only enter the White House as president if he can prove that his ridiculous "80,000,000 votes" were not fraudulently or illegally obtained. When you see what happened in Detroit, Atlanta, Philadelphia and Milwaukee, massive voter fraud, he's got a big unsolvable problem.

BALDWIN: The president still insists a Biden win is a mistake. And this morning, he said Biden can only assume office by proving that his votes weren't fraudulently or illegally obtained. Now, the president has no evidence of fraud -- something a federal appeals court just declared in an opinion written by a Trump appointee, which is why he is shifting the burden to Biden.

The American people made their decision, and Trump has 54 days left in charge. That means for 54 days, President Trump remains in charge of protecting your health, and he is again lying to you when he says the country is rounding the coronavirus curve.

One hundred ten thousand new infections reported on Thanksgiving, 1,200 more Americans died. And those numbers are down only because 20 states didn't report cases and deaths because of the Thanksgiving holiday, so the decline is not really a decline at all. We are missing piles and piles of cases out there in the community.

Measure the pandemic by how many people are sick and in the hospital, and you understand the fear we just heard of every public health expert in the nation, a record 90,481 people spend their Thanksgivings in the hospital.

Let's go straight to Stephanie Elam, she is live in Los Angeles. and, Stephanie, how sharp is the uptick where you are and what are L.A. officials doing about it?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, well you take a look at it, Brooke, you're talking about these numbers. In the last week or so, California has posted two record numbers of new cases in one day. They did post numbers for Thanksgiving day, those numbers coming out 14,640 new cases were added as of yesterday. We should get the new numbers here in about an hour or so, and looking at that.

But what we do know is that the numbers tend to tick down when we have a holiday, and then over the weekend. So next week, we may see some big numbers there and that is of big concern here, especially as we see the positivity rate, it is above six percent now. And the state is now saying that we are approaching at least 7,200 people that are hospitalized, and they're saying that there are less than 2,000 ICU beds available across the state.

Now, the state does have a plan to bring on more beds and open up 11 more facilities if necessary, but obviously when you look at this, we are approaching that summer surge where we saw our positivity go up above 7.5 percent. This is not what anyone wants to see.

And they are concerned that after Thanksgiving -- people still probably got together -- and then just as we get closer to Christmas, we may see some of these people now who are hospitalized. And as the health department from California has pointed out that people getting sick now, in about three to four weeks, 12 percent of those people will likely be in the hospital.

This is the very dire situation that they're looking at, it's affecting the numbers here in Los Angeles County as well. Think about it, a holiday, again, yesterday, that report showing us more than 5,000 people infected here, the positivity rate in Los Angeles County is at seven percent. And this is the hotbed of the outbreak in the state, this is where you see the most cases and the most deaths have come out of this area here.

They're also saying that of the people who are hospitalized -- which is approaching -- it's above 1,800 -- 24 percent of them are in the ICU. So these numbers are not good. And they're saying that while people are out there looking at Black Friday and getting out there and taking part in these sales, there are restrictions on how many people can be in the store right now, and they do have officials out monitoring that.

I can tell you, as I was driving in this morning, people were lined up outside of a GameStop early this morning, and so they are very much concerned about how the spread can continue during these days, when people are maybe potentially doing a lot more shopping because they want to send gifts to people that they're not going to see --

[14:05:00]

BALDWIN: Exactly.

ELAM: -- during Christmas and Chanukah and New Year's.

BALDWIN: Exactly, it is -- you said it -- a catch-22. You know, these businesses need the money, but I was talking to an M.D. last hour, saying, listen, if you're going to shop -- and please do because we need it, the economy needs it, you know, may be best to do most of it online if you can. Stephanie, thank you very much for the update out of Los Angeles.

The coronavirus is an American catastrophe, but the president yesterday projecting optimism. Let's go now to CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen. And, Elizabeth, for people who missed it, tell us what the president said about the vaccine timeline.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SERNIOS MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: The president said that we could have a vaccine much sooner than anyone else has. Let's take a listen to his exact words yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We are rounding the curve, the vaccines are being delivered literally it'll start next week and the week after, and it'll hit the frontline workers and seniors and doctors, nurses, a lot of people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So starting vaccine distribution next week or the week after.

Now, let's take a look at reality. So let's look at a calendar. The FDA is going to have a meeting with their advisers on December 10 about Pfizer's vaccine, that's the first vaccine out of the gate. And the head of FDA's vaccine agency -- or the department within the agency -- has said that they will then need to review and do analysis for days or even weeks. So that does not get us to vaccine distribution next week or the week after, it is going to take longer than he is saying.

What Dr. Anthony Fauci at the NIH has been saying for some time now, is he expects the first Americans to get vaccinated in the latter part of December. And, Brooke, as we've discussed, they will start with frontline health care workers, the elderly and other high-risk groups -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: What about specifically the AstraZeneca vaccine? I know the World Health Organization is weighing in on that vaccine and some of the reporting issues. What are they saying?

COHEN: Right, there are some issues with AstraZeneca's data and some issues with their transparency. So let's sort of give a list of the three big ones.

One, there was a dosing error. They gave a couple of thousand people the wrong dose, and so that means that when you're starting to look at that data, sort of what do you do with that data? And also what other mistakes might have been made? Because it's a huge error to give thousands of people the wrong dose.

Also, there's some missing data in this press release that was put out. They said it was on average 70 percent effective, but they didn't say how they came to that number. Moderna and Pfizer, when they put out their press releases, they did. So obviously the WHO wants to see real data, not just a press release.

Also in the press release, AstraZeneca didn't give any details about two participants who were in the clinical trials, got the vaccine and developed neurological issues. They didn't say what happened to them, why is AstraZeneca so sure that the vaccine wasn't the cause of this? Why should regulators be so sure, why should the FDA be so sure, why should the WHO be so sure? So the WHO for sure will be asking questions about that as well.

BALDWIN: Good, good. Elizabeth, thank you very much.

Joining me now to discuss all of this, Dr. Saju Mathew. He is a primary care physician and public health specialist. So, Dr. Mathew, welcome, nice to have you on.

SAJU MATHEW, PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN AND PUBLIC HEALTH SPECIALIST: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: First, just can you explain? You hear the president last night saying, you know, people will get this vaccine as early as next week, and then Elizabeth just reported out, you know, the meeting December 10th. What's your reaction to that?

MATHEW: Yes, so Brooke, I do agree with Elizabeth. We need to kind of slow down the pace here, and there is a reason why it is going to take probably up until the end of December. The FDA will now have to look at the data very carefully, not only by themselves but hiring a group of experts, independent scientists that have no connection with Pfizer, no connection with a vaccine trial.

And that is a good thing. You want to make sure that as many eyes look at the data and actually analyze the data. Is it actually true that it is 95 percent effective? Have we included a large minority population, Brooke? That's going to be key. Minority populations respond differently to vaccines than other populations do. Does it include kids, and will it protect the vulnerable?

So I don't think that we are going to be talking about a rollout to the high-risk groups until end of December, possibly even first week of January.

BALDWIN: You mentioned it's important to have a lot of eyeballs on this stuff, you know there were questions about the AstraZeneca vaccine, as we were just discussing. I know you've been tweeting about this, right? That the AstraZeneca vaccine trial -- and you said that the questions that are being raised means that science is working and the vaccine won't be approved until we have this safety data.

Just can you talk to me a little bit more about your point there? And what is the single biggest risk that would emerge from you know, rushing a vaccine through?

MATHEW: Right, so exactly. Rushing a vaccine through, Brooke, as much as we are waiting for this pandemic to be over, would be disastrous. Remember, a lot of side effects do happen 42 days after that second shot, but there's a lot more information that we have to look into.

[14:10:12]

Number one, that dosing error that Elizabeth just mentioned, that is definitely a big question for me. How can you incorrectly give the dose to a lot of volunteers? This is not the first time that AstraZeneca is conducting a trial, it is a very reputable company.

And also what was a little disappointing for me, Brooke, was you know, I was born and raised in Africa to East Indian parents. Remember, we are a supercountry. We're lucky enough to potentially have the Pfizer vaccine end of December even though it has to be supplied in a cold chain.

What about billions of other people? India has 1.3 billion people. It's not going to be easy to roll out a Pfizer vaccine. AstraZeneca would make more sense with your vaccine because it doesn't require the cold temperatures. So I'm hoping that AstraZeneca will come back, they will maybe carry out another trial and really give us the data that they think they had. I think that they will make a comeback, Brooke, I'm confident about that.

BALDWIN: I'm glad you made that point though about where you're from and just thinking about this from a global perspective, because the hope was that because AstraZeneca would be, you know, administered at a lower cost and wouldn't need to be so cold to -- as it's distributed, we need to think about everyone, right? Getting better around the world. Before I let you go, Dr. Mathew, I know a lot of Americans -- myself

included -- gathered for Thanksgiving. But for the Americans -- I didn't -- I just stayed put, you know, where I am here in New York City, a lot of Americans did jump on planes, were with family. You know, if folks did that, didn't exactly heed the CDC advice, what would you tell them as they are returning back to home to stay safe and protect others?

MATHEW: Yes, thank you, Brooke, for giving me a chance to really mention that point at the very end. Believe it or not, a lot of people now that are traveling back may completely forget that they could be harboring the virus, they could be incubating the virus, having been exposed at their Thanksgiving get-together. So they need to come back and quarantine for seven days, and then get tested. A rapid test will be fine.

And remember, all these tests are not 100 percent accurate, but it will at least give that person an idea, are they infected or not. But the key thing, Brooke, is to make sure that you actually quarantine for a full seven days and then get tested.

And you know, one last thing, Brooke, like I mentioned, I was born in Nigeria, I came to the U.S. when I was 16, and I remember saying how friendly Americans are, how giving they were. The reason that I'm a successful physician today is because of America.

And I call on that spirit, in this holiday time, Brooke, that we all look out for each other and that we fight this virus. Our enemy's one person, it's the virus, it's not each other.

BALDWIN: I so appreciate that. Dr. Saju Mathew, thank you very much, be well. I'm sure we'll talk again, thank you.

MATHEW: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We have some breaking news this afternoon, yet another rejection for President Trump's legal team in their failing effort to prove voter fraud. An appeals court out of Pennsylvania, ruling the campaign's claims there have no merit. We have those details, just coming in ahead for you.

Also, the president is also playing coy about whether he will attend the Bidens' inauguration, so let's talk about that.

[14:13:30]

And do not miss this story, a family of seven speaking out after the coronavirus has wreaked havoc on all of them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You are watching CNN on this Friday, I'm Brooke Baldwin, thanks for being here.

A new rejection today for the Trump legal team in their quest to prove voter fraud, an appeals court rules the campaign's claims in Pennsylvania, quote, "have no merit."

Equally important here, the opinion is authored by a Trump appointee, Circuit judge Stephanos Bibas, and is a straightforward dismissal. The quote is, "Calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof." We have neither here.

Let's go to CNN's Jessica Schneider. And Jessica, again, another loss for the president on this.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, this really just adds to the loss column for the president and his team, which is now more than two dozen losses.

So the federal court, the federal appeals court, echoing really the sentiments of numerous other state and federal judges around the country who have been actually -- in the opinions I've read -- reacting in an exasperated manner that these claims are even being brought.

So we've seen that in the past, and now today the court here, dismissing this challenge. It was spearheaded by Rudy Giuliani, and the court here -- that three-judge panel -- really responding with some biting language at times.

They said this, they said, "The campaign's claims have no merit," they said that quite simply. They say "The number of ballots it specifically challenges is far smaller than the roughly 81,000-vote margin of victory. And it never claims fraud or that any votes were cast by illegal voters. Plus, tossing out millions of mail-in ballots would be drastic and unprecedented, disenfranchising a huge swath of the electorate."

And, Brooke, that is exactly what we've heard from other judges around the country, that this campaign, the Trump campaign, has put forward no proof of widespread fraud. And that what they've been asking for in these cases, to block certification and to throw out what could be millions of votes in some cases, these courts have just been saying this is just too drastic for any courts to grant.

Now, the Trump campaign, they did anticipate this. They said when their claim was rejected by the lower court, just about a week ago, they said that they would speed toward an appeal all the way to the Supreme Court. We're hearing that from Jenna Ellis, another Trump campaign lawyer.

[14:20:07]

But you know, what we're seeing, Brooke, out of the Supreme Court is that right now they seem to want to be staying out of this fight. There's actually a petition -- or several -- over there about the mail-in ballots that arrived after 8:00 p.m. on November 3rd in Pennsylvania. The Supreme Court has not stepped in yet, it has been pending there for weeks.

So it's unlikely that the Supreme Court will step in in this case, especially because, Brooke, the certification has already happened in Pennsylvania. But of course, the Trump campaign legal team, vowing to take it all the way to the top. So we'll see what their next step is here -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes, Jessica, thank you for that update out of Pennsylvania.

The Biden campaign is responding to the lawsuit, with a spokesman saying that, quote, "This election is over, and Donald Trump lost." CNN White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins is with me now.

And, Kaitlan, the Trump campaign's legal team, we just read part of the statement. What more are you hearing?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so Jess just referenced Jenna Ellis, that's the president's legal adviser. And her full statement was, "The activist judicial machinery in Pennsylvania continues to cover up the allegations of massive fraud." She says, "We are very thankful to have had the opportunity to present proof and the facts to the PA state legislature. On to" the Supreme Court.

And of course, Jess just talked about how potentially unrealistic it is that this could go to the Supreme Court, but what she's saying there about presenting proof and facts to the Pennsylvania state legislature, obviously that was not done in a courtroom, Brooke. That happened in a hotel ballroom last week, where you watched Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis go and put the president on speakerphone.

That is not the same thing as taking your allegations of fraud to court with evidence and trying to prove them, and that is the thing that we have talked about so many times here, as we have seen these now at least 30 cases that they've lost or withdrawn between the Trump campaign and his Republican allies.

There's also all of this talk from the president, as we heard last night here at the White House, where they are talking about things that they are not alleging in court, Brooke. And they just simply don't seem to be in accordance with reality, because the president was saying that they had Republican poll watchers in Pennsylvania who could not be in the room -- of course his team admitted in court that they had a nonzero number of people in the room, meaning they did have people in the room. Now, they may have been unhappy with how close they were, but those aren't the same arguments that the president is making.

And so you're seeing the president and his legal team continue to try to put all of this information out there, act like there are these allegations and proof of widespread fraud when in a courtroom, they are not presenting that.

BALDWIN: Kaitlan, thank you.

I want to discuss all of this. Joining me now, David Swerdlick, he is an assistant editor at "The Washington Post," and a CNN political commentator.

So, David, great to have you on, welcome, welcome on this day after Thanksgiving. You know, they were talking about what's happened in Pennsylvania this afternoon, but I want to talk to you too about, you know, this president.

Less than 24 hours ago, the president said he's going to leave office if the Electoral College votes for Biden. And then when you look at his Twitter feed this morning, he's basically saying that, well, actually, you know, it's on Biden, you know, to prove his 80 million votes were, as he said, not fraudulently or illegally obtained.

What say you?

DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, good to see you, Brooke --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: We're just going to be on this rollercoaster?

SWERDLICK: -- Happy Thanksgiving. Look, a couple of things are going on here. One is that this is drifting into total sour grapesism and crybabyism on the part of the president and his campaign.

You have a situation where even if the Supreme Court takes up this case that the Third Circuit rejected today -- they rejected the motion for an injunction -- even if they take up Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania's electoral votes are not enough to get President Trump over the top. President-elect Biden would still have enough Electoral College votes to be seated as president.

And the other thing that's drifting out there from President Trump and his other allies is this idea that it's so hard to believe that Biden got 80 million popular votes because they're saying how could he have gotten more than President Obama? But President Trump also got more popular votes than President Obama, and President Trump by any measure, by any poll is not more popular than President Obama, it was just simply a higher-turnout election here.

So they're grasping at straws. And as you said, the president today said the onus is on Biden to prove his case if he can enter the White House. But we know that's not true, the election's over and it looks like the president is just going to drag this out as long as he can.

BALDWIN: Sour grapesism, that's a new one, I'm writing that one down for the record books.

I want you to listen, David, to the president here just talking about the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They're finding tremendous discrepancies in the votes. Nobody believes those numbers, those numbers are incorrect numbers.

The numbers are false, the numbers are corrupt. It was a rigged election, 100 percent.

[14:25:01]

It's going to be a very hard thing to concede because we know there was massive fraud.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Again, you know, there has been no massive fraud, no widespread fraud found in this election. Several Republicans have come out, either called Joe Biden the president-elect or at least, you know, support this transition moving forward. So as you sit and you listen to the president, David, who is he talking to? Who is that message for?

SWERDLICK: I think the message is partly for the hard core of his political base. He did get a tremendous amount of support in this election, and he's playing to those voters who wanted to see four more years. But the message is also for himself.

Everybody who has ever reported on President Trump, who has known him has reported out that his ego is incredibly fragile, that he is incredibly insecure. And I do think at some point, it's devastating to him that he lost the election to someone that he had tried to tag as "Sleepy Joe."

But he's not talking about someone off the street. Vice President Biden or President-elect Biden is the former two-term vice president of the United States. Kamala Harris is a sitting U.S. senator from the largest state in the union. The president is trying to dismiss people who are right there with him on his level and will soon take over the administration from him, and it's just not gaining any traction.

If his campaign had evidence, Brooke, they would have produced it in court in these many cases that, as Jessica pointed out, have gone nowhere, including with this judge on the Third Circuit who, as you said, was a Trump appointee.

BALDWIN: Yes.

SWERDLICK: They're dragging this out and they just want to extend the delay until the president has to acknowledge that he lost.

BALDWIN: Say it again, he lost. David Swerdlick --

SWERDLICK: He lost.

BALDWIN: -- thank you, thank you so much.

SWERDLICK: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: There is a family speaking out to CNN after COVID nearly killed some of them, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)