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Restaurant Owner Mandates COVID-19 Vaccine for Employees; Experts Fear College Students May Add to Nationwide Case Surge. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired November 27, 2020 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

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CLAIRE BABINEAUX-FONTENOT, CEO, FEEDING AMERICA: We know we can do this, but we're going to need help.

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VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: And you just hear that number 8 billion meals that are going to be needed. And one of the ways that they think they can meet that need is from help from the federal government. The federal government has provided some federal stimulus for these food banks. But Brooke, they're going to -- they're saying that they're going to need a lot more of that in the months to come.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: I'm still thinking of my conversation with the Houston Mayor a couple hours ago where he was saying, he was helping give 20,000 meals out to folks in need yesterday. He was saying, Brooke, there were so many people there who couldn't even take the turkey because they no longer have the apartment and the kitchen and which to cook it. That is where we are right now. Vanessa, thank you so much for sharing that.

Some business owners are now saying that they will mandate that their workers get the coronavirus vaccine when it becomes available. Can they do that? We'll talk to one of them and a lawyer, next.

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[15:35:27]

BALDWIN: One restaurant owner in Washington State says she will make the COVID-19 vaccine mandatory for her employees. She is Holly Smith. She owns Cafe Juanita in Kirkland, Washington. And she decided early on in the pandemic that her restaurant would not be open for diners until there was a vaccine. And now she's taking precautions a step further making the vaccine a must for anyone who wants to work for her.

So here to discuss is Holly Smith, restaurant owner and Dorit Reiss, a lawyer who specializes in issues specifically relating to vaccine. So welcome to both of you. And I think this is such an important issue. We're going to -- we're about to see a lot of this. So Holly, starting with you, I know you're already have been taking precautions with your staff. But why make them get the vaccine?

HOLLY SMITH, CHEF & OWNER, CAFE JUANITA: Hi, Brooke, thanks for having me on. You know, it's a -- the decision, while I've known for a while what I what we will do, it really has been informed by my staff. And so we had a few weeks of learning about COVID and ramping up and trying to learn protocols put them in place before we close down and became a pickup only restaurant. And then the learnings continued with my staff over the last nine months.

And what became very clear was that for the emotional and physical safety of my team, that tighter boundaries for them, have felt better. And so the first thing was saying, when it comes to flu season, everyone must get the flu shot, that seemed important, because how could we go into this false time with -- if people start to get the flu, just that the symptoms would look like COVID and just the chaos that would start in the team.

And so my job, I think, when it comes down to it is to provide a safe work environment, and also a safe place for my guests to come. I'm a fine dining restaurant. People spend three hours or more with us. And all the science, all the data tells me that that's not safe. So vaccines, especially the effectiveness of what we're hearing about with the Pfizer and the Moderna vaccine seems so wonderful, so promising.

BALDWIN: Let me jump in because I, you know, I can feel the thought bubbles of people watching thinking, well, I shouldn't, you know, my employer better not make me take a vaccine or I don't even want to have to take a flu shot. But at the same time, I can understand, you know, it's their choice whether they want to work with you legally speaking. Dorit let me let me pivot to you. Can Holly, can other employers, I know there'll be more, you know, make this mandatory? And what exceptions if any do employees have?

DORIT REISS, PROFESSOR, UC HASTINGS COLLEGE OF LAW: So first of all, an employer like Holly can then impose health and safety requirements in the workplace and asking employees to be vaccinated is such a requirement. And yes, she can. And as she pointed out, it's a balance between people who want to get the vaccine or who not -- don't want to and people who want to work a safe workplace.

As you pointed out, there are also exceptions and things that may limit their ability of an increase to do that, and four of them are relevant here. First, these vaccines will first be approved through an emergency use authorization, not licensing. And under the law that says emergency use authorization, the secretary actually has to address whether a person can refuse the vaccine and what may be the consequences. So the secretary will have to put in place some rules about whether or not you can mandate it. So that's one in it.

BALDWIN: Let me, if I may jump in, because I want to go back to Holly. Just listen to the exceptions. Holly, you had said something I jotted down earlier. You said your decision was informed by your staff. And I'm wondering, does that mean that your staff is in favor of this? And what if you have a beloved employee who says, I love working at this fine dining establishment? I do not want this vaccine. Would you make an exception?

SMITH: You know, the first thing I will tell everyone is that COVID has taught me that even when I believe I've worked it all out and I know what I believe when things really happen. The nuances are often surprising, so maybe no ultimatums in that way. Yes, my staff, everyone that I've talked to, we have a lot of furloughed staff. We've had the conversation. Everyone in the current staff believes it's the right thing kind of in the community, in our immediate community.

[15:40:05]

But if someone has, you know, if there's -- I will definitely work with people. What I've learned through this, though, is that the staff that stays, there may be a revolt. If, you know, it may be that the staff is kind of dictating the culture to some degree, I can imagine that happening. Is that make sense?

BALDWIN: Sure, sure. Staff, obviously really matters, you need them to feed them out and work for you. Dorit, final thought from you on all of this.

REISS: I think Holly's giving us a nice view of the fact that it's really a work culture, a workplace culture, especially in smaller places. And there's going to be a lot of negotiation. Just remember that there are limits from federal antidiscrimination law as well, for some cases, such as people with medical conditions that prevent vaccination and sometimes for people with religious objections.

BALDWIN: I just can't imagine whether it's restaurants, airlines, schools, this is going to be a thing for lack of a better phrase as we move forward. We want to be well and survived this pandemic. Holly Smith and Dorit Reiss, ladies, thank you both very much. Good luck. Good luck to you. And stay well.

SMITH: Thank you.

BALDWIN: The experts warn college kids not to come home for the holidays, but many of them had no choice and now face even more uncertainty over when they can return to campus. That story is next.

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[15:45:51]

BALDWIN: College students heading home for the holidays. That was something the CDC warned against fearing students can spread the virus to family members at home. But without warning coming very late, many had no choice but to take their chances. Bianna Golodryga has the story.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Happy Thanksgiving. BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: University of Michigan sophomore Elliot Boz took an extra test before leaving campus and reuniting with his family in San Mateo, California for Thanksgiving, a negative COVID test. We first met Elliot on campus last week.

ELLIOT BOZ, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN STUDENT: My family is at home and, you know, grandparents are back so, I want to make sure that, you know, that I'm cleared before I come back home.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Despite a late plea from the CDC advising people to stay put. He's one of the hundreds of thousands of college students who traveled home for the holiday, because staying put wasn't an option. The University of Michigan and many other universities nationwide ended all in person classes for the semester this week.

E. BOZ: But I think everybody is kind of in the same situation. I'm not unique in any way in that sense. It's just an extra level of thoughtfulness. So, I had to go out of my way, get the test, be diligent about, you know, wearing a mask, washing my hands, and so on.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): These are the scenes health experts desperately wanted to avoid, some 4.8 million travelers passing through TSA checkpoints since the CDC guidance came out last week.

E. BOZ: It's pretty tough, because I think students kind of around the country are might be thinking differently about this and everybody wants to see their family. So I think in terms of travel, everybody is trying to do their best about how to travel safely.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Universities across the country set their own COVID testing protocol before students left campus. There are no federal guidelines in place, leaving health officials frustrated.

A. DAVID PALTIEL, PROFESSOR, YALE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Young asymptomatic individuals, the so-called silent spreaders, are fueling the epidemic in this country. And so colleges have a responsibility to ensure that they don't unwittingly unleash ticking time bombs into the nation's airports, train stations, and Thanksgiving dining tables.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Elliott's dad, Mike says the family is comfortable with his son's decision to come home.

MIKE BOZ, ELLIOT BOZ'S FATHER: He was a responsible kid and so he got tested and so that negates the concerns. So, the overall like there is always a risk but the risk is minimized as much as possible.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Elliott's parents and his 81-year-old grandparents will be together this Thanksgiving. But his older brother Szura (ph), a college senior in Los Angeles is not coming home from school.

(on camera): So, what is this Thanksgiving going to be like for you? I bet a little bittersweet having your younger son home but obviously, the full family can't be together. M. BOZ: It's going to be a kind of a partial family. We had other family members who are planning to come and they're not coming anymore. Because it looks like in COVID. And so it's not just my older son, its other family members.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): It's exactly the kind of holiday precautions Dr. Fauci and other experts are pleading with Americans to make.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: To the extent possible, keep the gatherings, the indoor gatherings as small as you possibly can. We all know how difficult that is because this is such a beautiful traditional holiday. But by making that sacrifice, you're going to be prevent people from getting infected.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Sound advice that will extend far beyond Thanksgiving for families with college students home for the rest of the year.

E. BOZ: In terms of the grandparents, it's really being thoughtful about when I see them and how I see them, talking with them, sitting apart, you know, or when giving them a hug. You know, just being thoughtful.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Bianna Golodryga, CNN, New York.

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BALDWIN: Bianna, thank you.

Let's get you back to our breaking news this afternoon. A new rejection for President Trump's legal team and its effort to prove election fraud and appeals court ruling the campaign's claims in Pennsylvania have no merit. We have that for you ahead. But first, this year's CNN Heroes an all-star tribute will be a special celebration of the women, men, and children who stood up to help others when faced with the simultaneous crises of COVID-19 and racial injustice. Here is one of this year's most inspiring moments.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sometimes a photograph can capture the mood and the attention of the world. In June, one image did just that.

During a protest on the streets in London, events turned violent. Black Lives Matter group was there to condemn statues of people with racist ties and many white protestors were there to protect the statues. Things got heated. One man Briton male, a white former police officer wandered into the crowd, and they started to get beat up. One of the Black Lives Matter protesters, Patrick Hutchinson saw that he was in peril. Patrick moved in, picked up the injured Briton carried him through the crowd to safety.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The biggest thing for me was making sure that no harm came to him because I knew if harm had come to him, the narrative would just be changed. And then the blame would be fall on the young Black Live Matters protesters. We made sure we got him out of there safely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Patrick, a father and grandfather hopes that everyone who sees the image understands that the responsibility to do the right thing resides in all of us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just want equality for all races, for all people. That right now we're the ones who seem to be the oppressed ones and it's about time, things will change, you know, the world over.

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BALDWIN: All these incredible stories, if you want to know more, go to CNNHeroes.com right now to vote. And make sure to watch CNN Heroes an all-star tribute Sunday night, December 13th at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

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[15:56:41]

BALDWIN: Two worlds one of promise, one of punishment come together for this unlikely experiment. On this Sunday season premiere of This is Life with Lisa Ling. Lisa brings us to a unique look at a prison and prep school that formed an unlikely bond over literature. Here's a look.

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LISA LING, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: How are you guys, doing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little nervous. We're inside.

LING (voice-over): Guiding Hudson and the other students through security gates is the boys English and theology teacher, Jim Nicoletti.

(on camera): Do you talk much about what the boys are about to embark on before they go in?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it's tricky because you don't want to give away too much, we want to be surprised, we want to be a healthy shock. Geography matters, getting kids out in the community matters. I'm always telling students don't let school get in the way of your education, a lot of good stuff to see out there.

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BALDWIN: Lisa Ling is finally back on my T.V. It is so good to see you, friend. I hope you've been well.

LING: Thank you. Yes, we have been I've been ready for the season to air. BALDWIN: I feel it from, you know, and let's talk about so you're kicking off the season back to back episodes. We just saw the clip focuses on prep school student and prisoners and then the second one focuses on this super intense retreat for boys in crisis. Why did you want to start off the season focusing on young men?

LING: Well, Brooke, we didn't intend for these two episodes to run back to back. But in many ways, they kind of go together. They explore totally different worlds. But we all can probably recognize the fact that there are a lot of young men and boys who are struggling right now. And the thread through both of these episodes is really giving young men permission to feel and to express emotion.

You know, young people are going through so much right now. I think it's a little bit easier for girls because they're just naturally more communicative. But we explore these two different environments where these young men are given that permission and it's pretty remarkable what transpires.

BALDWIN: Tell me more about the program that brings together the prep school students and the prisoners at a state correctional facility. How does it work? And what's the mission?

LING: Yes, so it's an eight week of elective course at the Palmer School, which is this elite Catholic boys school. And they go in and they essentially read books with prison inmates. And a couple of years ago the reason why I felt I had to do this story is some of the inmates felt so moved by one of the books they are reading called Through the Valley of the Kwai that they decided to start a scholarship to fund the education of a young man to attend the Palmer school.

So this past year, a young man named Cyan Green (ph) graduated having had almost his entire education paid for by prison inmates.

BALDWIN: Wow. That is extraordinary. And just quickly, I know I'm out of time. Bur let me just tease everyone. The second episode takes an exclusive look at this retreat just for boys who are struggling with a host of issues. You were the first woman ever allowed to attend, just 15 seconds, give us a good tease like what was that like?

LING: Yes. It's this organization that brings men from the community into being the fathers and father figures that a lot of these young men don't have. And again, it was he hugely, hugely transformative. A lot of sons of single moms who are carrying so much weight and it was really powerful.