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Coronavirus Cases Continue Rising in States Across U.S.; Los Angeles County in California Taking Drastic Measures to Reduce Coronavirus Spread; Vote Recount in Wisconsin Confirms Win for President-Elect Joe Biden; President Trump To Campaign in Georgia for Republican Candidates in Senate Runoff Elections; Tensions between Israel and Iran Increase as Iranian Nuclear Scientist Assassinated; Former Democratic Presidential Candidate John Delaney Recommends Federal Government Pay Americans $1,500 to Get Coronavirus Vaccination. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired November 28, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:06]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: A top health expert warns that the U.S. could soon see a destabilizing coronavirus surge that threatens the health, the economy, and security of the country.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Senate balance at stake, Republicans and Democrats pouring tens of millions of dollars into the peach state. We're live in Georgia for you.

BLACKWELL: And inside the misinformation virus that is spreading across social media.

PAUL: We are so grateful to have your company, as always. It is Saturday, November 28th. I'm Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. You are in the CNN Newsroom. And right now the coronavirus numbers in the country are horrible. But now we're in the holiday season, and some experts fear that with the pandemic continuing, that it could get even worse.

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DR. PETER HOTEZ, DEAN, NATIONAL SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE AT BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: We're going to be regularly hitting 2,000 deaths per day, but then going up to 3,000 deaths and 4,000 deaths. More lives than the U.S. lost in terms of GIs in World War II, these are the kinds of numbers we're talking about, numbers that are approaching what we experienced in the 1918 flu pandemic, except it's happening over a much shorter period of time. So, this is going to be very destabilizing for the country, not only in terms of health, but also our economy, as well as our homeland security is under threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: The most populous county in the U.S., Los Angeles, is now taking dramatic action, telling residents there if you're not from the same household, you can't get together. CNN's Polo Sandoval reports.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As of today, more than 19,000 Californians have lost their lives to the coronavirus. Until yesterday, only two states, New York and Texas, had reached that sobering milestone.

DR. PETER HOTEZ, DEAN, NATIONAL SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE AT BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: We're in the most dangerous public health crisis this nation has faced at least for the last 100 years. We're going easily to 200,000 new cases per day. It will be accelerated because of the Thanksgiving holiday. It will be accelerated again over Christmas. And I'm so upset about the deaths.

SANDOVAL: Those death rates, along with the number of infections and hospitalizations, continue climbing throughout much of the country, with frontline health care workers putting their lives on the line to save patients.

DR. HASSAN KHOULI, CHAIR, DEPARTMENT OF CRITICAL CARE MEDICINE, CLEVELAND CLINIC: It is disheartening to see some of our colleagues, our nurses, our respiratory therapists, our physicians, falling ill and looking them in the eyes, too, and see how this is impacting them. This is as real as it can be, and we have to, we have to follow all the things that we know work.

SANDOVAL: Including mask wearing, social distancing, and following post-Thanksgiving advice to quarantine when in doubt about possible exposure. Health officials say that's especially important if you attended a holiday gathering this week with guests outside of your household or with people not taking precautions.

DR. AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CHIEF CLINICAL OFFICER, PROVIDENCE HEALTH SYSTEM: If you've expanded your bubble over thanksgiving, the CDC asks us to stay quarantined for 14 days. And so we're going to do everything we can to get as close to that as possible.

SANDOVAL: Multiple health experts are warning that this latest spike hasn't even peaked, and likely to worsen significantly in the coming weeks, putting a bigger strain on hospitals across the country.

DR. COLLEEN KRAFT, DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, EMORY UNIVERSITY: People can't get their serious surgeries if there's no ICU beds available because of COVID. So, this is really becoming a tragedy within a tragedy.

SANDOVAL: In the race to secure a safe vaccine, a CDC advisory committee will hold an emergency meeting on Tuesday, voting on who would be among the first to be vaccinated, front line health care workers and those at high risk of infection likely to be prioritized. The World Health Organization also calling for more research on a vaccine candidate being developed by AstraZeneca. A dosing mishap in their trial gave a small group of study subjects less dosage, but was more effective than the planned dose, leading to questions about their trial. (END VIDEO TAPE)

SANDOVAL (on camera): If this trend continues, we are likely to see higher death rates. To quote Dr. Leana Wen, E.R. physician and visiting professor at George Washington University, we are rounding the corner into calamity, potentially seeing up to 4,000 daily deaths in the coming months before a vaccine would provide some level of protection. There is some optimism here, though. Many hospitals are reporting that the amount of COVID patients they're seeing, they are still at levels that they can actually attend to those patients. But the concern is some of those other hospitals, Victor and Christi, that are already in crisis mode.

BLACKWELL: Polo Sandoval for us in New York. Polo, thank you.

We've got Dr. Monica Peek with us in a few minutes. She's a medical researcher at the University of Chicago, and she'll explain what needs to be done to make sure that African Americans and others who are hit hardest by the pandemic get the vaccine once it becomes widely available.

PAUL: Meanwhile, the legal losses for President Trump are piling up, at least 30 now.

[10:05:01]

A recount, this one, that costs the Trump campaign $3 million, ended with President-elect Joe Biden picking up even more votes in Wisconsin's largest county.

BLACKWELL: CNN's Kevin Liptak is with us now from the White House. Any comment from the White House on that?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: The Trump campaign is indicating that they will appeal this decision. They're essentially trying to throw out tens of thousands of absentee ballots in Wisconsin. And remember, the president is the one who requested this recount in the first place. He paid 3 million for it in two counties in Wisconsin. When the results came in yesterday in Milwaukee County, the results changed by 132 votes, but they were for Joe Biden.

Now time is running out for the president in Wisconsin. The deadline to certify the vote there is on Tuesday. The president is continuing to see his legal cases crumble across the board as he continues to try and overturn this election. He's continuing to make these false claims about voting, even after he said that he would be willing to leave the White House when the Electoral College affirms Joe Biden's win. He's now placing some kind of condition on that. He tweeted yesterday "Biden can only enter the White House as president if he can prove that his ridiculous 80 million votes were not fraudulently or illegally obtained."

Of course, the only person who is having trouble proving anything is the president himself. There's actually ample proof that this election was free from fraud. The federal government said so, Republican and Democratic election officials in states across the country have said so. Nevertheless, the president is continuing on this effort, and the courts really just aren't having it.

The latest came in Pennsylvania yesterday, a federal appeals court writing a scathing opinion that the president's campaign cannot block certification in that state. This judge was actually appointed by President Trump himself, and he essentially said calling an election unfair does not make it so, and that ballots choose presidents, not briefs.

Now, the president's campaign says that they will appeal that decision to the Supreme Court. The high court has offered no indication that it's willing to take up these cases. All of this is just the president's attempts to continue sowing doubts about the results of the election among his supporters. But if you needed any indication that the president realizes that his administration is coming to an end, look no further than the flurry of rule-making that's taking place across Washington. In addition to the pardons that we expect in the next several weeks, all of this is a sign that the president is himself fully aware that he will not be president after January 20th, guys.

PAUL: Kevin Liptak, we appreciate it so much. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Republicans are pouring millions of dollars into the upcoming Senate runoffs in Georgia, and those races will determine the balance of power in the Senate. Today Republican National Committee Chair Ronna McDaniel is holding an event there.

PAUL: CNN's Ryan Nobles is in Marietta, Georgia. Ryan, we know President Trump is also planning to campaign in the state next weekend. Talk to us about, as Victor said, the GOP is at stake here in the Senate, but what else is so pivotal about these races?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's really all the marbles for the Republican Party in Washington. If they hope to hold at least one bastion of power in Washington, they need to win at least one of these Senate seats in the runoff that is coming up at the beginning of January. That's why you see so much emphasis by Republicans from across the country here in Georgia. Chairwoman McDaniel is about to speak here in the next couple of minutes. She's in this room behind me. We should point out, a relatively small room, people packed inside. We do see a fair number of people wearing masks, but not everyone, as we continue to keep the focus on the coronavirus pandemic.

And that is also one of the big issues that both of these campaigns are talking about. The Democrats in this race are criticizing both David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler, the two sitting Republican senators, for their response to the coronavirus pandemic and also some stock trades both of them made around the time that they learned about the seriousness of the coronavirus pandemic.

And they're also criticizing the Republicans to not do enough to forcefully convince President Trump to concede the election, saying that it's inhibiting Vice president Biden and his incoming administration for preparing for the coronavirus pandemic so that they can take action as soon as they take office. And you talk about that kind of broader issue here, President Trump's refusal to concede the election. He suggested this week that he won easily here in the state of Georgia. That's simply not the case. Even the Republican officials that ran this election, the secretary of state and the sitting governor, both of whom are Trump supporters, have consistently said that this election was run fair and that it was devoid of fraud. The state is now in the middle of a third recount of the votes here. No one thinks that that's going to change the outcome of the election, but still President Trump is talking about that.

He's also pressuring these candidates to say more about it. Both Perdue and Loeffler have called for the Republican secretary of state to step down, and it's creating kind of a dicey situation for these Republicans.

[10:10:08]

They'd prefer to be talking about what's at stake in the election, the fact that the Senate majority could ultimately end up in the hands of the Democrats if they were able to sweep both of these elections. They don't really want to be talking about an election that's already occurred. But if they do that, they run the risk of alienating Trump's most ardent supporters, who are with him and firmly believe that he should continue this quest. So we'll sit and wait to hear what the chairwoman has to say here in the next few minutes, Victor and Christi, but there is no doubt that the eyes of the political world are here on Georgia.

BLACKWELL: It is a rhetorical tightrope to figure out how to motivate the voters. Ryan Nobles in Marietta, thank you.

PAUL: We have some breaking news we want to bring to you right now, following what's happening in Tehran after the assassination of Iran's top nuclear scientist.

BLACKWELL: Protesters have been burning pictures of President Trump and President-elect Joe Biden, also burned the U.S. flag, Israeli flag as well. Iran's president blames Israel for the killing, and Iran's supreme leader is vowing retaliation. CNN's senior national security correspondent Alex Marquardt is following this from Washington. Alex, good morning to you. The EU today called for maximum restraint. Are we hearing anything from the Trump administration?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the EU calling for maximum restraint, Victor and Christi, because this is a highly combustible situation. But no, we are not hearing anything from the Trump administration, not from the White House, Defense Department, or the State Department. What we are hearing is increasing calls for revenge from Iran, increasing accusations that Israel was behind this, notably from the Iranian president, Hassan Rouhani.

This attack against Iran's top nuclear scientist, Mohsen Fakhrizadeh, was a brazen attack that took place in the middle of the day. It was described to me by a top former U.S. intelligence official as having been carried out with surgical precision. It involved a car bomb in a truck. It involved a team of attackers that shot up the car carrying this top scientist, who later died in the hospital.

The prevailing theory here is that Israel was behind this. They have neither confirmed nor denied their role in this attack. That is not something that they do following these types of attacks. They remain quite silent. But Fakhrizadeh was someone who would have been at or near the top of their most wanted list. This is someone who was the father, the architect of Iran's nuclear program, specifically it's military nuclear program in its early days before it officially ended in early 2000s, and it's believed that he continued to have a role in Iran's nuclear program.

Fakhrizadeh was someone who was mentioned specifically by the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu when he gave a presentation about Iran's nuclear program in 2018. So, the message here to Iran is we can take out your most senior people in broad daylight when we want to.

Now, it remains to be seen what impact this will actually have on Iran's nuclear program. It has become quite institutionalized, but with these calls for revenge, this certainly complicates the situation for the incoming Biden administration, which wants to reengage with Iran, which wants to get back into the Iranian nuclear deal, and Iran wants them to come back into the deal because they need sanctions relief. But they will certainly feel pressure to respond to this killing of their top nuclear scientist. Victor, Christi?

PAUL: My goodness. Alex Marquardt, we appreciate it. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Still ahead, we will speak with a doctor who says it would be a double tragedy if African Americans refuse to take the coronavirus vaccine.

PAUL: And did you know today is small business Saturday? There are so many small businesses that are on the brink right now, and your dollars could be particularly valuable.

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[10:18:17]

PAUL: Here is a question for you. Should Americans get paid to take a coronavirus vaccine? This is becoming more likely, multiple vaccines for the coronavirus are going to be available simultaneously, and polls suggest there are a lot of Americans who are hesitant to take it. That's why John Delaney, a former Democratic presidential candidate, is recommending the federal government pay every American $1,500 to get vaccinated, writing this, "Such an incentive might be the most effective way to persuade people to overcome suspicion or even fear of vaccines, that like so much else about the pandemic, became politicized during an election year."

Dr. Monica Peek, an associate professor of medicine and health disparities researcher at the University of Chicago is with us now. Dr. Peek, so appreciate you being with us. Thank you very much. I want to get your thoughts on that, first of all. Is it the right call to pay Americans to take this vaccine? DR. MONICA PEEK, HEALTH DISPARITIES RESEARCHER, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO:

Well, it may seem like it's a good idea in the short term, but I think we have to think about the bigger public health implications of messaging. I think that people may be concerned that if they're getting $1,000 or $1,500 in exchange for taking a vaccine, what does that mean that they're giving up? The implication may be that there are additional risks or unknown harms associated with the vaccine, particularly in this climate of increased or heightened concern about the vaccination.

And so I think that the public health message that we want to send is that this is a vaccine that has been proven to be safe. We have two vaccines already on the market that have shown to be 95 percent effective with no adverse events, and that this should be routine practice, that it has the same safety profiles as the flu vaccine and many other vaccines we're giving in routine care that we are not paying people to get, so there's no additional risk or burden.

[10:20:18]

And I think that the messaging, or the implicit messages that we're sending the public could be wrong if they think they have to get paid for a vaccine that they ordinarily wouldn't be paid to get in the routine office. Certainly, we're in an economic crunch and people need their stimulus. Give them the money anyway. But I think it should be separated from how we're trying to administer the vaccine and how we're trying to increase the public trust and public confidence in our system of vaccine implementations.

PAUL: Speaking of public trust, there is a real discrepancy in the people who are part of the trial participants for some of these vaccine trials. We know that Moderna says about 10 percent of its 30,000 participants are black. Overall minority participation in the vaccine trials have hovered around five percent. And it's almost unheard of, knowing that the black community and other minority communities are hit particularly hard with COVID. So help us understand. On the surface some people might think there's a problem with the process of securing the trial participants, but is there something else going on here? How do the companies decide who to include?

PEEK: There has definitely been a lot of effort in trying to recruit minorities. I work at the University of Chicago, and we're actually a trial site for Moderna, and extra effort has been put to try and recruit minorities. So it's not for lack of effort. But the issue has been that the scientific community has a well-earned distrust by many marginalized communities, not only the African American community, for how we have conducted business, not only historically, but contemporarily.

And so, when people are reluctant receive the good things that science and public health has to offer them, that is in part our fault. And we also have to understand that trust is not a limited construct, that institutional trust flows from one public institution to the other. And so, if the federal government has breached or eroded that trust in one area, say criminal justice, that that affects the public's trust in another area, like whether or not we're willing to take vaccines.

And so if we just think about the year 2020 and what that has meant for the black community, with all of the police brutality, the racialized state violence, how the economy has really taken its toll, what the pandemic has disproportionately meant for the lives and death within the black community, that has eroded a lot of the public trust for our state and federal institutions, and particularly how our federal government has stepped in or not stepped in to mitigate some of these issues.

And so that has played out and we've seen that in a number of studies, including ones published in JAMA, one of our top journals in the country. And so we understand some of the reasons for this mistrust for some of these vaccines, and we're going to have to address that with a multipronged approach in order to try and make sure that we have vaccinated our high risk populations as well as the rest of the country in a timely fashion.

PAUL: Yes, because from the medical community on up, they say it is vital in getting this virus under control. Dr. Monica Peek, always a pleasure to have your expertise. Thank you for being with us.

PEEK: Thank you for having me.

BLACKWELL: Small business Saturday and small businesses really need your support. A lot of owners of these businesses are wondering how much longer they can survive. Natasha Chen is in Lawrenceville, Georgia, speaking with some of those business owners. Natasha, good morning.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning. This is a town square that's got lots of local shop owners, small businesses. Of course, this being small business Saturday, but with a lot more riding on it this year for this holiday season, considering so many of them were barely able to survive after the spring shutdowns. Coming up, we'll talk to some of these businesses about their concerns coming down the line, especially given the current surge in cases.

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[10:29:00]

BLACKWELL: So small businesses are suffering during the pandemic. Slim to no chance that more federal help is coming before the end of the year, so they really need your support.

PAUL: And this is small business Saturday, in case you didn't know. Your dollars go a long way for business owners who are struggling to keep the lights on and to pay employees, employees who are part of your community. We want to go to CNN's Natasha Chen, who is Lawrenceville, Georgia, right now. It's just outside of Atlanta. And Natasha, I know you spoke with some business owners. They're hoping things are going to get better. How optimistic are they? What are they telling you?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Christi and Victor, we're talking about a lot of small businesses on this square, a lot of them -- most of them, really, are locally owned, and they really struggled to survive through that initial shutdown in the spring. Where I'm standing right now is Universal Joint. They actually pivoted to becoming sort of a general store. They'd got a lot of supplies from their bulk supplier and started selling things to their usual customers, like toilet paper, like meat in the beginning.

[10:30:03]

So a lot of these people had to think up different ways of surviving. That patio right behind us where you see the red umbrellas, that is a new patio just because of the demand for outdoor dining. So right now, these shops are looking at this weekend, as well as the holiday season, as a real push to make sure they're in a healthy spot to go into the new year.

We talked to Bruce Kennedy, the owner of Universal Joint. He talks to us about how difficult it was just to be open at this point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRUCE KENNEDY, RESTAURANT OWNER, UNIVERSAL JOINT: I'm going to tell you, without the PPP, which was the loan that we all got, probably nobody would have made it. That was a big thing that the government did for us. You think what happened in March and April, if that comes back again, tough. It will be really rough for us. And I don't know if we would make it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: And, of course, that is a concern for all of his friends and competitors along this square right here, a similar story for small businesses across America. And a lot of them now looking at the surge in case numbers, thinking, what's going to happen if there are new restrictions, or maybe even new lockdowns that happen? Could they survive a second round of that? Of course, a lot of them who are typically booking holiday parties or serving the holiday shopping audience, they're missing a lot of that revenue this season. So, they're just going to see how things go for the next few months.

PAUL: Fingers crossed for them. Natasha Chen, thank you so much.

BLACKWELL: President Trump says that he will leave the White House on January 20th if President-elect Biden is declared the winner by the Electoral College. But he's still spreading these baseless conspiracy theories about widespread voter fraud. Joining me to discuss that and more, Republican political strategist Alice Stewart and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona, both CNN political analysts. Together, they host the podcast "Hot Mics from Left to Right." Ladies, welcome back.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you, Victor, good morning.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Alice, help me understand how this is supposed to work. The president is continuing with these lawsuits, on one hand saying that the Democrats stole the swing states that he won, which is a lie, that the systems are corrupt, but come out again and vote for David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler, because this time you can, what, overcome the rigged system? How do you make both arguments?

STEWART: Well, Victor, you're asking me to make sense of something that really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, actually. Look, the reality is whether or not you voted for the president or not, it's hard to look at these numbers and see it any other way than Joe Biden won this presidency. And I think it's really important for us to realize that the votes have been counted, they have been tabulated, that many have been certified in the various states, and it's important to begin the transition process.

Now, I understand that the president has concerns with certain states and in some areas where he sees voter irregularities, and every legal and legitimate vote should be counted, and that's true. But we have several cases go before various courts, and continuously we see and hear from the courts there is no legal merit for this case.

And look, if he has something, bring it on. Let's see it, let's see evidence. And speaking with a lot of rational-minded Republicans and those that support this president, like myself, if there is something there, bring it out. And that's not in a tweet, that's not in an affidavit waved around at a conference. It is actually evidence presented before the courts. And I think that would go a long way to satisfying a lot of the doubts we have.

But we also need to put this aside and focus on what is ahead of us, and that is an important reelection in the state of Georgia that we would be much better off as Republicans and as a nation putting our focus on that right now.

BLACKWELL: Maria, do you think there's enough disappointment, maybe anger, for some Republicans to surge Republican turnout in January, or in the early vote in the run-up to the runoff?

CARDONA: Well, that is certainly what President Trump and his campaign are hoping, Victor. That is why they continue to malign the electoral process. They continue to inject doubt with all of these lies and misconceptions about fraud when there's absolutely zero merit to it.

But you're right, I think actually for independents, and even disaffected Republicans, it will do the opposite. It will say, look, this president is doing huge damage to our democracy. This president is doing huge damage to the faith that we all should have as Americans in our electoral process.

The other thing that it's going to do, Victor, is the more that the president tries to make this argument that the whole process was fraudulent, the more -- what he's going to do is he's going to inject more enthusiasm and energy and mobilization into everyone who came out to vote against him, and is the reason why Democrats and Joe Biden won Georgia. The momentum is actually with the Democrats and with those who chose Vice President Biden over Donald Trump in a ruby red state that we haven't won since 1992. And so right now that is what you are seeing, the activism and the

surge in enthusiasm on the Democratic side. And for those independents and Republicans who believe that this president should not be allowed to continue to do damage to our democracy, that's, I think, the surge that Republicans, and, frankly, Trump supporters should be afraid of.

BLACKWELL: Alice, before we move on to one more thing, let me ask you this. Let's say the president doesn't come here and he reads prepared remarks and he doesn't come and trash the whole system, but one of the biggest strategic blunders nationwide was trashing mail-in voting. It's a different ask to ask people to stand in line for an hour in January than it is to ask them to do it in November, even in Georgia. Do you expect that we will hear a different narrative on at least mail-in voting, or is he going to ask people to push that aside, too?

STEWART: I would imagine he's going to encourage Republicans and voters to come out any way they can. Obviously, I prefer in-person, I.D. voting, as well as he does, and potentially absentee balloting because there is a more valid check and balance system. But his message should be, and I expect it to be, all Republicans should get out and vote in the state of Georgia because this is the firewall in the Senate, and it's important that we get out and vote and have a divided government.

BLACKWELL: But he's going to accept that he lost to count that as a firewall. And that is just the conflict in the argument. If he says that he will win, then the Senate is not a firewall, he's the firewall.

I've got a minute-and-a-half left. I need to get back to Maria on one thing. House Majority Whip James Clyburn disappointed by the number of black people thus far named to positions in the Biden administration. He told this to Juan Williams, according to "The Hill," "From all I hear black people have been given fair consideration, but there is only one black woman so far. I want to see where the process leads to, but what it produces so far, it's not good." What do you think about what we're hearing from Majority Whip Clyburn?

CARDONA: I think that there is no one that knows better than Vice President Biden how much he owes Congressman Clyburn and how much he owes the black community for helping him not just surge and win the nomination, but for helping him get elected the next president of the United States.

I think that Congressman Clyburn will be very pleased at the end of this process, Victor. It is still very early. And let's remember that Vice President Biden, President-elect Biden, is not just juggling appointments to his new cabinet, but he is juggling a president that is in office right now who completely lost, who is trying to hang onto power with lies and fraudulent claims and all of that.

And so he's trying to do two things at once. I think at the end of this process, Clyburn and everyone who is looking at this administration-elect is going to be very pleased. We already have the most diverse staff that a transition has ever had. We already have with the appointments that he has made an incredibly and historically diverse cabinet. And let's not overlook the very first black woman who is serving as vice president, Victor. That's huge.

BLACKWELL: It certainly is. I don't know if the two things at once argument works for a president. He's going to have to do many things at once. But Alice, I really don't know where to go with you on the diversity question, because President Trump's cabinet had one black man, and the highest ranking black woman who served in the White House he called a dog on her way out. So, I really don't know --

STEWART: I think it's important what Clyburn is doing. He obviously did help Joe Biden, and he's saying what he wants early and often to the media. And I think Joe Biden has time to make that happen. And Sutter (ph) Christman (ph) is a good appointment on his team, and I expect, as he moves forward, we'll see more.

BLACKWELL: Alice Stewart, Maria Cardona, thank you both.

CARDONA: Thank you, Victor.

STEWART: Thank you, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Christi?

PAUL: So have you noticed on your Facebook feed that you log in to get an update on family or friends, but you get swamped by posts packed with misinformation? A "New York Times" writer recently got into the Facebook feeds of two baby boomers, and he says what he found was a nightmare. He's with us next to explain.

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[10:43:57]

PAUL: What do you love about social media? Ideally, it's a space for people to share milestones and memories and family and friends. But these platforms are increasingly showing to be spaces to spread misinformation.

Our next guest recently poured over the Facebook feeds of two Americans. He wrote about what he saw in a "New York Times" piece titled "What Facebook Fed the Baby Boomers. Many Americans' feeds are nightmares. I know, because I spent weeks living inside two of them."

Charlie Warzel joining me now. He's an opinion writer at large for "The New York Times." Charlie, thank you so much. So, you got into these Facebook feeds, obviously with their permission. They allowed you to go into these feeds. And you call them a nightmare. Why? What did you see that was a nightmare?

CHARLIE WARZEL, AUTHOR OF "NEW YORK TIMES" ARTICLE, "WHAT FACEBOOK FED THE BABY BOOMERS": What I saw that was really a nightmare was just a stream of contextless information. And some of the stuff looked pretty tame. Some of it was really hard to tell what it even was, maybe the worst version of a hallmark card, a Bible verse, some cute pictures of some kids.

[10:45:03] And then interspersed inside of that was just what I called high octane propaganda, unsourced facts, conspiracy theories, political memes that were basically hyper-partisan and overexaggerated, but all interspersed between all this other stuff.

And what it was doing was it was creating these conversations among Facebook friends in these people's groups that was divisive and angry from the jump. And these people, it was slowly -- you could tell it started driving everyone mad inside this little universe that they built for themselves.

PAUL: So the two people that you talked to, one is 62, one is 55, one a schoolteacher from Virginia, the other recently sold a small business and he's kind of retired, living just outside Phoenix now. You talked to him, his name is Mr. Young, and he told you, it got to the point where I literally had to start leaving my phone in the other room. The problem is mostly that I don't have anything to do. So that's what he said is part of the draw to him when it comes to Facebook.

But let's listen to what CEO Mark Zuckerberg recently said about almost the addiction that some people talk about to Facebook. This is when he was asked by Congress if he believes that Facebook can be addictive.

Do we have that sound? OK, I'm going to read it. We have it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK ZUCKERBERG, FACEBOOK CEO: We don't give the team that's running newsfeed a goal around how much time people spend on our products, which goes counter to a lot of the memes and misinformation out there around how we operate. But my goal is to help people connect and find content and interactions that are going to be meaningful to them on our service, and our view is that if that's what we deliver over the long term, and people find the services useful, then they'll use them more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: So, does the responsibility fall on Facebook based on everything that you saw, or is that versus adults who should exhibit self- control, all of us included?

WARZEL: So, I think that the real sort of salient point there in Mark Zuckerberg's comment that you just played is this idea of we just wanted to connect people. And that is what I found that Facebook has done. So, both people I talked to joined the service around 2008, and they did it to connect with old friends they hadn't seen in 30 years, high school classmates, kids they grew up in the same neighborhood with. And it was delightful when they did it, because it wasn't about news, it was about sharing photos, seeing who got old, who got fat, who got married, the whole thing.

And then the experienced change in the 2010s, and slowly those people who were really weak ties, people they didn't know that well, became these information sources for them. They started posting links and news. And those aren't necessarily the people you want to get your news from. You don't even know them that well. And that dynamic I just saw play out in both feeds just again and again and again.

And people saw that not only did it make them feel bad, but they wanted to counter it. So, they started engaging more and more and more. And it's just one of those things that the toxic behavior spawn's toxic behavior spawns toxic behavior. And the next thing you know, you're spending all your time on it.

And I think the pandemic has also really exacerbated this, because people don't have a lot to do. They can't go outside. Especially if you're older, you're kind of stuck indoors. And the time on site just keeps ticking up and up and up.

PAUL: Oh, my goodness. Charlie, it is a fascinating article. I highly recommend people read it there. Charlie Warzel, we appreciate your time today. Thank you so much.

WARZEL: Thanks for having me.

PAUL: We'll be right back.

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[10:54:05]

PAUL: "CNN Heroes, an All-Star Tribute," airs December 13th. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hans Christian Andersen wrote, where words fail, music speaks. In the early days of the pandemic, we didn't have the right words or know the right way to be together, but we had songs that filled the air. In Florence, people sang the Italian national anthem.

(SINGING)

COOPER: In Chicago, they countered the sorrow and loss with "Living on a Prayer."

(SINGING)

COOPER: In Dallas, they made sure their neighbors knew they could "Lean on Me."

(SINGING)

COOPER: In Boston, they belted out "Sweet Caroline."

(SINGING)

[10:55:06]

COOPER: And a Broadway legend, Brian Stokes Mitchell, serenaded us with "The Impossible Dream" from his balcony.

(SINGING)

COOPER: All across the world, people found a way to sing and spread hope and offer thanks and celebrate life. They posted on social media.

(SINGING)

COOPER: Communities belted out hits from balconies and neighbors brought their musical skills to the streets. All over the world, we found a way to lift each other up and connect through the power of music.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: Vote now at CNNHeroes.com.

So just a few minutes ago, Pope Francis appointed 13 new cardinals at a ceremony in Rome. One of them, the first African American cardinal in church history.

PAUL: And 72-year-old Archbishop Wilton Gregory is already the highest-ranking black Catholic in the U.S.

We are so grateful to have you. We hope you go make good memories today.

BLACKWELL: CNN Newsroom with Amara Walker is up next.

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