Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

U.S. Sets New Record with Nearly 100,000 Hospitalized with COVID-19; FDA Commissioner Summoned to White House for Meeting Today; Today, Biden Names Economic Team as Millions of Americans Struggle. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 01, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Jim. He is talking about a renewed stay-at-home order for certain regions where they're seeing the virus spreading rampantly throughout the community there. And they're saying that they're seeing this across the state. In fact, 99 percent of the population is living in counties where we are in the most restrictive tier of the plan that the state has put into position to monitor the virus transmission here. And that is of concern, especially when you take a look at our positivity rate, which continues to grow. It's now back at a level that we haven't seen since the end of August, which was the end of that summer surge.

But take a listen to California Governor Gavin Newsom talk a little bit about this percentage of the positivity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): We have certainly seen an increase in the last number of weeks in not only the case rates but also more importantly perhaps the positivity rate. And that positive rate, just in the last few weeks, 4.7 to 6.2, is disconcerting. We know that that will impact our health care system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: And it's also worth noting, hospitalizations are approaching a record number. Now, a record number was hit in July. That was more than 8,800 and that we saw yesterday that the numbers were above 8,500. So that is a big concern there. There is a plan in place to bring on more hospital beds if necessary, as the governor has pointed out.

But when you look at the stats coming out, Jim, across the nation, you have 47 states plus the district of Columbia that saw their COVID cases increase in November, according to Johns Hopkins University. They're also saying that they saw 34 states, and Puerto Rico hitting at least one record as far as hospitalizations are concerned at least one day in November.

When you look at that and what it means probably for December and the winter months, we are in for some dark weeks ahead. Also keeping in mind that when you look at the fact that Thanksgiving was just last week, it's going to be a week or so more before we see if there's any widespread community transmission. And those numbers go up if people were not socially distancing themselves, not wearing masks and all of the things that we've been told over and over again that we need to do to get the virus to not devastate our communities, Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, we had just two people in the hospital right now suffering this, who said, no uncertain terms, listen to the doctors. Stephanie Elam, thanks very much.

Right now, the head of the FDA, Dr. Stephen Hahn, is at the White House, he's meeting with the president's chief of staff, Mark Meadows, this is new video of Dr. Hahn's arrival. He was, we're told, summoned there to explain why the agency has not yet moved to approve the Pfizer vaccine. President Trump had wanted a vaccine available before the November election.

In a statement at Axios last night, Hahn insisted the agency will follow, thankfully, the science. Let me be clear, and I'm quoting here, our career scientists have to make the decision and they will take the time that's needed to make the right call on this important decision.

I'm joined now by CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, your reaction to the president, it seems here, trying to apply some pressure to Hahn and his decision on the vaccine.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think everybody wants this to go as quickly as possible, Jim. I mean, we're in the middle of a pandemic, the worst public health disaster in 100 years. But to give you some context, you and I have talked about this, it was 243 days between the time that Pfizer started creating their vaccine to the time they applied for emergency use authorization, about eight months.

I mean, eight years would be considered speedy under normal circumstances. But I think the more fundamental point to what's happening right now, Jim, is that people are hearing all these headlines, 94 percent effective, all that sort of stuff, all that is coming from the companies themselves, right now.

I don't question it, but that data needs to be evaluated by people who do this for a living, these FDA scientists. I haven't seen the data, nobody really outside the company and this independent committee have seen the data. So that's what the FDA is doing.

So, between November 20th, which is when Pfizer, for example, applied for their EUA and December 10th when they're going to actually have this meeting, this is all the FDA scientists are doing, they're looking at the data. Did it affect one demographic of people differently than another group? Are older people going to get the same response? How long does the response last? They may not have all the answers to those questions but that's what they do during this time.

And those are the FDA scientists that then report up to Stephen Hahn. He's not making -- he's not looking at the data the way they are, even as commissioner.

SCIUTTO: Science has got to lead here. Well, a new CDC study just released suggest the coronavirus could have been in the U.S. as early as December 13th. That's earlier than we had known. What more do we know, and what would that mean about its origins?

GUPTA: Yes. So, you know, on January 21st is when we had the first confirmed patient with COVID in this country.

[10:05:00]

And even then, the sense was did we really catch the very first patient? I mean, that would be extraordinary if we did. It probably wasn't the first patient. And then there were some studies that came out of California over the summer, autopsy studies that came and said, well, maybe it was closer to beginning of January when patients first started becoming infected.

I think what this means now, and this seems like a pretty good study that it actually showed that there was antibodies to this novel coronavirus in blood samples from mid-December, not just any coronavirus, but this coronavirus.

I think what it means and reminds us is that this is a highly contagious virus, that almost from the beginning when it started to transmit among humans in China, it was spreading around the world. People were getting on planes, we're a global society. So an infection anywhere, Jim, an outbreak anywhere is an outbreak everywhere. I think that's what this reminds us of.

SCIUTTO: Yes, in a globalized world, no question.

All right, the CDC panel that's meeting today recommend who should be first to receive coronavirus vaccine, which are those groups? I mean, is there any real debate about this?

GUPTA: I think there is still some debate about this. I mean, some of the like what vaccine goes where is just going to be done for pragmatic reasons. Can you store a super cold vaccine, like the Pfizer vaccine, or not. That's going to make that decision.

I think one of the big things, as we know that it's going to be likely health care workers that this committee is going to recommend receive the vaccine first. But all health care worker? I'm a health care worker, but I'm a neurosurgeon, I've taken care of COVID patients because they were diagnosed with COVID after they came into the hospital. Very different from some of my colleagues who -- this is all they do. They're in and out of COVID units all the time, they're at much higher risk than I am. So, yes, there are 21 million health care workers, but are they all the same? These are the sorts of decisions. Nursing homes, Jim, we know are a big source of infectious spread with this. Should they be high on the list?

Ultimately, my sense is these are going to be recommendations that come from this committee and then the states have to decide. Florida may be different than Wisconsin in terms of how they actually distribute this vaccine. It's going to be challenging, I think, no matter how you look at it. But the list you saw, there is a rough idea of who's likely to be first.

SCIUTTO: All right. Dr. Gupta, please stay here. I'm going to bring in Dr. William Schaffner as well. He's a member of the CDC advisory committee on immunization practices, he's also an infectious diseases expert and professor at Vanderbilt. Good to have you on, Dr. Schaffner.

Given what you just heard from Sanjay, I mean, when you look at those groups, I mean, people with underlying conditions, that's 100 million people in this country, that's a big group. I mean, health care workers by themselves, 21 million. And there's a lot of different categories in there. How do you divide it up, right, and figure out who's at the front of the line, who's at the middle of the line, who's at the back of the line?

DR. WILLIAM SCHAFFNER, PROFESSOR, DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Well, Jim, and Sanjay knows, the advisory committee on immunization practices has been meeting on this really for several months and has been thinking about it very, very carefully. They've done focus groups, have medical ethicists involved. They're very interested in among other things, equity to make sure that underrepresented minorities who are disproportionately affected by the COVID vaccine get the information about the vaccine and can make careful decisions for themselves and their families.

Today, I think the phase one will be decided, and that will undoubtedly be health care workers. As Sanjay says, all health care workers are not alike. That will be determined at the local level. And then the issue is, should nursing home patients also be included. That was a matter of debate still last week. They'll resolve that this week.

SCIUTTO: Dr. Gupta, I think you might have a question as well.

GUPTA: Yes. Thank you, Dr. Schaffner, always good to see you. How much of these recommendations then are sort of interpreted by the states, or even more hospitals? If it's health care workers, do hospitals then decide which health care worker workers would get it first? Or I realize these are recommendations, not mandates, but how does it sort of go after that?

SCHAFFNER: Well, Sanjay, they're recommendations with a capital R because this is a distribution of vaccines that you and I and all the other taxpayers have paid for. So the states paid careful attentions to the recommendations. But then when it gets down to the individual institution, my own, for example, has a committee that is doing exactly what you suggest. They're looking at the health care workers within the institution and deciding, well, if we get 100 doses, who gets it, if we get 500, who gets it, and how to construct that within our own institution. There's a lot of planning ongoing right now.

[10:10:00]

SCIUTTO: States have to come up with those distribution plans on Friday. My worry, and perhaps this is a question to both of you, we've already seen, for instance, in the president's treatment when he himself became infected, but he had treatments to him that aren't necessarily available to broad portions of the country.

I mean, when you're talking about tens of millions of people on this list, Sanjay, perhaps you first, how do you prevent favoritism, right, people with connections, people with money, from moving up to the top of the list? We already see that with testing. I mean, if I play for the NBA, I can get tested like that, right? But you and I go we have to wait in line. You see those lines, people wait for hours. How do you prevent that, Sanjay?

GUPTA: Yes. I mean, I think you'd be naive to suggest that it's not -- people aren't going to try and game the system. In fact, people have even called me and said how can I get a vaccine more quickly for my family and things like that. I mean, I don't know, Jim, the answer to that. I think that -- you know, I think most people are going to try and be very diligent and ethical about vaccine distribution because we have such a shortage of it right now. But I don't know.

I mean, I think we're learning a lot as we go along in terms of how we're going to prevent those sorts of ethical lapses from happening. But I don't think we can prevent them all together. I think just like with testing, there were people who got moved to the front of the line.

SCIUTTO: Dr. Schaffner, I mean, if you're doing distribution state by state, perhaps it's necessary, but the fact is states have vastly different approaches to this, and, frankly, vastly different views of reality, right? I mean, we had the governor of Florida yet yesterdays claiming that masks basically don't make a difference, mask mandates, even though there's data county by county that shows that they can make a difference here.

I mean, if you don't have a basis of facts in terms of the virus itself, how do you have a basis of facts in terms of distributing the vaccine?

SCHAFFNER: Well, let me be a little more reassuring. The CDC has already sent out a playbook about how to do this. And all of the states have to submit plans, which are updated periodically to the CDC for their approval about how this vaccine is going to be distributed. I'm sure there will be a little chicanery around the edges but, by and large, I think public health is going to be very serious in accounting for this vaccine and its distributed according to the national plan. And that's a good thing. We can reassure people about that.

SCIUTTO: Sanjay, what's the biggest question for you?

GUPTA: Well, Dr. Schaffner, we see these numbers in terms of vaccine availability and stuff like that. One thing that I learned recently is that, typically, you have a stock supply, right, you have a lot of extra doses of vaccine and that can help smooth out the surges in demand and things like that. That's not the case here.

I mean, vaccine is going to be distributed almost as soon as it's been manufactured. But you can have problems with batches of vaccines, right? They may fail a quality control check or something. How do you think that's going to be handled? Because if it's two shots and all of a sudden a batch doesn't show up, is there contingency plans for things like that?

SCHAFFNER: You bet, Sanjay. People are prioritizing completing the series before initiating new. So all of the planning has to do with making sure that if you get your first dose, you will be notified and asked to come in for your second dose and that second dose will be available to you. It does get pretty complicated but all of those contingencies have been taken into account in the planning.

Will there be bumps in the road? You bet. Sure there will. I think this is a serious, earnest effort. My colleagues in the state health department here have been working on this literally day and night, even through the Thanksgiving holidays.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's going to take folks being responsible as well, taking some personal responsibility. Dr. Schaffner, Dr. Gupta, thanks so much to both of you.

SCHAFFNER: Thank you.

GUPTA: Thanks, guys.

SCIUTTO: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis ruling out imposing any further COVID restrictions, even as the state gets set to reach the 1 million mark in total infections. Ahead, we're going to speak to a local mayor who is pleading with the governor to change course and take action.

Plus, CNN is learning about aggressive plans for President-elect Joe Biden during his first 100 days in office, this as he gets ready to unveil his economic team officially in the coming hours.

And one Texas couple facing a tough dilemma during the pandemic, trying to provide for their family or, listen to this, risk their daughter's life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every night, we cry to each other. We talk. If we're not crying, we're trying to make a way, we're trying to find a way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Soon, the fate of millions of Americans who are right now struggling to put food on the table or pay rent this month will be in the hands of the economic team of President-elect Joe Biden, the one that he is announcing today.

CNN's Jessica Dean is in Wilmington, Delaware, with more on the president-elect's picks during what is a worsening economic crisis. Jessica, tell us what they are.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's absolutely right, Jim. This team has a giant task before them to right this economy. We're going to be formally introduced to many of these members later today by President-elect Biden.

[10:20:01]

I want to show you some of the key members of this economic team, starting with Janet Yellen, she's, of course, the former Fed chairwoman. She would be the treasury secretary nominee. Also Neera Tanden, she has been selected to run the Office of Management and Budget. She's the CEO for the Center for American Progress.

Now, she is the one nominee that's gotten blow back from both sides, both liberals and Republicans up on the Hill. So it will be an interesting confirmation battle for her.

And Cecilia Rouse, who would lead the Council of Economic Advisers, she's a Princeton economist and also an Obama administration alum.

So, those are some of the key women that would be leading this economic team. Jim, as you mentioned, they are going to have so much to do. They're going to want to get together to put together an economic stimulus package. We know that's something Biden really wants to do, just a worsening economic situation by the day, as you mentioned, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Okay. Ambitious plan for the first 100 days, tell us about it and how much depends on Democratic control of the Senate.

DEAN: Well, yes. A lot of this is going to depend on how the Senate all shakes out, right, because we're waiting on those two Senate seats in Georgia to see what the balance of power will be in the Senate, but that notwithstanding.

Here is what we're learning about what President-elect Biden wants to do within the first 100 days, no question about it, COVID really leading that list. They need to get, they want to get the COVID epidemic and pandemic under control. They want that broad economic aid package. That's where this economic team is going to come in working with people on the Hill, putting together this package to help Americans. They want to tackle racial inequality.

And we also know that that they're going to have a series of executive actions aimed at advancing their priorities. Now, that's where that executive power comes in. If they can't get some of this stuff done through the Senate, Biden may have to rely on executive action more than he wanted to, was hoping to maybe build consensus. He may have to rely more on those economic around those executive actions.

But he's also said multiple times and this all kind of goes together, COVID linked to the economy, also linked to racial inequality, because COVID, we know, is affecting the black population, the Hispanic population more, and they're really struggling to get the resources they need.

So a lot of this fits together, Jim. It's an ambitious 100 days, as they always are with a new president and a new administration. But, certainly, this country facing multiple crises at once, they're going to have a lot of work to do and they certainly know it. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Jessica Dean, with the Biden team, thanks very much.

CNN's Chief Business Correspondent, Christine Romans, joins us now.

So, Christine, breakdown the biggest challenges here, I mean, because there is some good news, right? I mean, economic growth did not fall as much as feared in 2020 and a lot of those jobs, though not all of them, have come back. So what are the biggest immediate challenges when Biden takes office?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: So, let me take it to the kitchen table for you, right? 10 million jobs of those jobs are not back yet. You're still in a 10 million jobs hole. You had a pause on student loan payments that's expiring. So student loan payments with interest is going to pick up again. You had forbearance policies for mortgages and other kinds of loans where people -- lenders have been working with people to help them pay less or to pause those payments, that's going to expire. There will be mass evictions if some of these protections don't go into play. And we know that there are 50 million people who say they could be facing food insecurity by the end of the year.

So, I think, is really the kitchen table view that these policymakers, this economic team, is going to have to grapple right away. And you can't do any of those things on a permanent basis without fixing COVID first. So there's a huge vaccine distribution outlay that's going to be -- frankly, it's going to be something that we haven't seen really since World War II, frankly, what we're going to be doing with the economy, trying to get those vaccines out.

SCIUTTO: All right. So, a bipartisan stimulus proposal is coming out today, perhaps smaller than Democrats wanted. We have learned something about which money helped the most, right? It was really about getting money into people's pockets more so than some of these loans to small businesses, et cetera.

So, first of all, can this package happen, and where would the money be best spent?

ROMANS: This is a debate that has been going on since May. And they have been so dug in on their corners over how to spend it and how much to spend. I mean, is there a chance that the Democrats could accept a little bit less money? I don't know. Maybe. But the Republicans have been very focused on liability protections as a cornerstone of this and spending money in different ways than the Democrats. So they are really dug in on this. I mean, I keep watching the reporting. The fact that they're at least talking, I guess, is important. But, Jim, I mean, we have just crashed and burned on this over and over again in terms of these two sides getting any money out there. And the money has run out. I mean, this isn't even stimulus anymore. This is just financial aid to survive.

[10:25:00]

SCIUTTO: No question. Finally, some unsettling words from the Fed chairman, Jerome Powell. What has he said? What should we take from that?

ROMANS: On the vaccine progress, he says, medium term, this is all very good but uses words like a significant challenges and uncertainties remain in the longer term. We still have a very difficult, grim winter to get through. There's optimism about some time next year. But I think what you're hearing from the Fed chief is don't pull away the targeted support too soon for the economy. The economy is not ready to stand up on its own as we wait for these vaccines. So tread here with caution.

He has said many times that Congress has more to do. And here, we have a lame duck session with a new administration coming in with big ideas on tackling inequality, even as you tackle what's happening in the very near term in the economy. It's just politically a difficult moment here, and we still need targeted aid. I think that's what the Fed chief is saying.

SCIUTTO: Let's hope they act. Christine Romans, thanks very much.

Well, as Florida approaches 1 million total coronavirus infections, mayors in Florida, they have been pleading with the state's governor, Ron DeSantis, to take more action to stop the spread. We're going to speak to one of those mayors who has been very vocal, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:30:00]