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Fed Chair: Outlook For The Economy Is "Extraordinarily Uncertain"; WH Meets With FDA Chief As Trump Presses For Vaccine Approvals; Biden Braces For Battle To Get Nominees Through Senate. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired December 01, 2020 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

JASON FURMAN, FORMER CHAIRMAN, COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: And then of course, the Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen is one of the towering economic policy figures of the last decades. And, you know, we'll help put all of it together for the team.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: We mentioned Heather Boushey, she and Neera Tanden who's also a nominee. Both are going to be on the stage today. They wrote a few months ago, the following. They wrote, the impending economic downturn will likely come faster than in 2008 and could be deeper unless the federal government acts swiftly and decisively to cushion the blow. So given the magnitude of the crisis, now is not the time for policymakers to worry about raising deficits and debt as they consider what steps to make. Do you agree with that? Do you hold the view that this team actually does, which is that put concerns about the debt and deficit aside at least in the short term?

FURMAN: Yes, absolutely. Right now, we cannot afford not to do major things to help the economy. If you're worried about the debt, you want to have a good economy there so we can repay that debt. We got off to a good start in March with the CARES Act, that helped our economy grow back more quickly than many expected. But we still have more than 10 million unemployed. We're still deep in a hole. And a lot more action is needed. And it shouldn't wait for President Biden. I would love to see President Trump sign the next economic relief bill.

BASH: Well, he might at least it might be tucked into another broader bill. Look, this Republican Party under Donald Trump, as you well know, has kind of put their 2010 Tea Party concerns about the debt and deficit aside in a big way. But just kind of putting not just your policy hat but your political hat on, are you concerned that the same thing could happen to the Biden team that happened to you with the Obama team, meaning that you did what you felt that you needed to do stimulating the economy, but that was used as a weapon politically against Democrats in the midterm elections? Is that -- is extra spending that you think is needed for the economy going to be politically hurtful?

FURMAN: Yes, so from an economic hat, this actually even more room for fiscal policy today than there was when I was with President Obama in the White House. That's because interest rates are a lot lower right now. So financial markets are basically telling us, not only do we not need to worry about the debt, but we need to do more.

Unfortunately, economics doesn't always translate, as you noted, into politics. And I think there are too many, especially on the Republican side of the aisle that are going to use the deficit as an excuse to not do more, even after they themselves did a big deficit expansion just a few years ago, to pass a large tax cut for much of it for corporations.

BASH: Yes, they sure did. I want to ask about what the Fed Chair Jerome Powell said about the economic outlook. He was testified before the Senate actually this morning. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIR: As we've emphasized throughout the pandemic, the outlook for the economy is extraordinarily uncertain and will depend in large part on the success of efforts to keep the virus in check. The horizon new COVID-19 cases both here and abroad is concerning and could prove challenging in the next few months. A full economic recovery is unlikely until people are confident that it's safe to reengage in a broad range of activities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So I know you also argued that economic problems will persist even once the virus is under control that they existed before they will afterwards. The Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin says he wants a targeted fiscal response that can be passed quickly. The Fed Chair says the risk of overdoing it is less than the risk of under doing it. Can they both be right?

FURMAN: I certainly think the biggest risk we have is underdoing it. You know, think about a restaurant. Right now, restaurants aren't full to capacity, because people are afraid of the virus. If we solve the virus, people will be able to go to a restaurant but you need them to be able to afford to go to the restaurant. For that they're going to need jobs. They're going to need incomes. There were a lot of empty restaurants during the financial crisis in 2008 even without a virus, that's what we want to avoid here. We want to make sure that when people can safely return fully to the economy, that they have jobs and can afford to do so. The government doesn't act. I'm not sure that'll happen.

BASH: Jason Furman, who was again, the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Obama, came in during a very, very bad financial crisis. So, he has -- he knows what he's talking about in a lot of ways, but the timing is also one of them. Jason, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

[12:35:03]

FURMAN: Thank you.

BASH: And up next, the FDA chief summoned to the White House about a vaccine timeline. I'll ask a former FDA head about that meeting and much more next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: We're waiting to learn more about this morning's meeting between President Trump's Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn, who was called to the White House and that happened as sources tell CNN, the President is privately frustrated, which is actually spilling into public now as usual. It's about -- the frustration is about the approval process of the coronavirus vaccine and how long he believes its taking.

[12:40:04]

Now, a process done by career scientists in careful consultation with the data that is how the process normally works. And it is continuing to work that way now even though it is happening so quickly. I want to talk about this with former commissioner of the FDA, Dr. Mark McClellan. He is now the director of Duke Margolis Center for Health Policy. Thank you so much, Dr. McClellan, for joining me. The White House is frustrated. They call a meeting with the FDA Commissioner this morning. First, is this appropriate given the fact that you had that job?

DR. MARK MCCLELLAN, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: Well, it's understandable, Dana. One of the things that happens a lot when you're FDA Commissioner is getting pressure from all sides, some wanting to go faster when there are these really important unmet needs like a pandemic that currently is out of control in the United States and many parts of the world. On the other hand, concerns about making sure that the treatments that we are using are ones that people can have confidence in.

And the FDA has worked with support from the administration on a remarkably fast process to get us to this point. We're almost there. The FDA does need to take a close look at the data and review it in public. And that's what's going to help make sure that people really do decide to take the vaccine when it is approved.

BASH: All right, so let's talk about that. There is still a lot we don't know. And you have a story, a piece, I should say in the Wall Street Journal, and I'll read part of it to our viewers. The best way to answer these questions is through randomized clinical trials. That's why the vaccine makers will continue to follow the tens of thousands of patients in trials for at least two years. But with millions of people vaccinated, there are opportunities to learn at a far larger scale. So what needs to be done to answer the many outstanding questions about the vaccine?

MCCLELLAN: Well, let me first say, now that we know a lot about the vaccines now, when the FDA has a public meeting with its independent advisors in less than two weeks coming up on December 10th, all of that's going to be discussed, a critical close look at all of the evidence producing the clinical trials so far, which appear to show that the vaccines are really effective, and one can't -- we can't really imagine a better case in terms of it's -- the vaccine's ability to reduce complications and hospitalizations. But they also will be taking a close look at whether there are any side effects. Now, when people get these vaccines, they have a tough day. They're sore arms, sometimes fevers, aches, flu like symptoms. So it's a bit tougher than a usual flu vaccine. But it doesn't look like there are any significant long-term or other serious rare complications. And so there'll be a close review of that.

And what we want to do after the products are approved is learn a lot more as people start using it. Does it work as well in practice, as it did in the trials? Does it work differently in different kinds of patients? What are the long-term consequences? How long does the vaccines effectiveness last? Does it keep people not only from getting clinical complications when they get COVID but is it prevent them from even transmitting COVID to others?

So those are the kinds of things only to learn about. And I'm sure that FDA is reviewing and we'll have some expert guidance on these next steps after any emergency approval coming out of this process it's going on right now.

BASH: So many applications, so many questions, just some of those that you raise now that obviously nobody knows the answer to yet but hopefully we will, at least in a couple of weeks. Part of the need to be careful with vaccine approval, you know this better than I or anyone. It has to do with assessing the potential side effects. I want you to listen to the head of Operation Warp Speed, Moncef Slaoui. And what he said about this just last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MONCEF SLAOUI, OPERATION WARP SPEED'S CHIEF SCIENTIFIC ADVISER: I would classify them as maybe 10, 15 percent of the subjects immunized have quite noticeable side effects that usually lasts no more than 24, 36 hours and resolve. Most people will have much less noticeable side effects. We're going to learn as we go that's why we put together with the FDA and CDC very active pharmacovigilance systems to assess those longer term side effects. We predict that they will be very, very infrequent, but they may exist and we learn as we go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Learn as we go. You mentioned that when you get the vaccine, you're going to have a tough day, tougher than when you get your average flu shot. And this is not just a shot, its multiple shots. I mean, at least that's how the initial vaccine is being made.

MCCLELLAN: That's right. And so it's important for people to know what to expect with the vaccines, just because you do have a sore arm and you feel bad for a day. And as Dr. Slaoui said, no, that doesn't happen to everybody, but it does happen pretty commonly. That doesn't mean something is wrong with the vaccine. It actually means that it's working. It doesn't mean you shouldn't come back for the next shot a few weeks later. It's very important for you to get that second shot for the vaccine to really be effective, one shot is not enough.

[12:45:23] And we need to give people very clear information about what to expect. Also, over the longer term, it is possible that vaccines could have rare side effects that are more serious. We haven't seen any clear evidence of that yet. But it's important to monitor very closely. So that, Dana, is another important part of the plan for it from here. Again, it's not just about the approval. It's about setting up the systems to monitor how the vaccines are doing.

BASH: Got it.

MCCLELLAN: And it's really about getting a good distribution system, good information in place so that people actually will make an informed decision and, you know, want to take a safe and effective vaccine.

BASH: Such important advice and appreciate you giving us your expertise on it all. Dr. Mark McClellan, good to see you. And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:50:54]

BASH: President-elect Joe Biden arrived moments ago at his event in Wilmington, Delaware to welcome his economic team. He pointed to his new walking boot. He entered his foot playing with his dog over the weekend. He says he's feeling OK. And as Joe Biden set, get set to formally unveil that economic team, he's got to be thinking about how all of his cabinet level nominees will be received in the U.S. Senate where they of course, will have to face confirmation.

Some like Janet Yellen could potentially cruise through that process. Others like Neera Tanden are already facing headwinds from Republicans. I want to get straight to CNN senior congressional correspondent Manu Raju, who is tracking all of the nominations on Capitol Hill. And Manu, what signals have you been seeing and hearing from Republicans as you walk those hallways about the Biden nomination process?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, lukewarm reception at best. And Republicans are signaling that may show some deference to Biden's Cabinet nominees but not total deference. The Republican whip, the number two Republican John Thune told me this morning that basically they will prioritize national security nominees, but nominees that they consider out of the mainstream, they will resist and whether that Mitch McConnell, the majority leader, if he's still a majority leader in the new Congress schedules votes on the Cabinet nominees will be a big question.

But already some pushback including from about -- Tony Blinken, the President's secretary of state, now President-elect Secretary of State nominee. Josh Hawley, the Republican from Missouri, said that he -- that Blinken is clearly a war forever kind of guy. He's also very pro- China. Of course, Blinken was confirmed by the Senate, he only got two Republican votes for his deputy secretary of state job. Will we get any this time, is a big question. And also knew -- the person is getting a lot of opposition is Neera Tanden to be the budget director at the White House. Most Republicans are raising a lot of concerns about passing. She has said on Twitter and her position is and running a liberal think tank, John Cornyn, the number -- part of the Republican leadership called her combative and insulting comments about many members of the Senate will be difficult for her to get confirmed instead of other senators made similar remarks.

But of course, Dana, it all -- so much is this going to be contingent on who is controlling the Senate. And that's why those Georgia runoffs come January 5th, are so important for Biden's nomination. Dana?

BASH: So important. And I really just think it's so wonderful that the Republican senators who didn't see any of the President's tweets are suddenly looking at old tweets from people like Neera Tanden. Appreciate it, Manu, thank you so much for that reporting as always.

[12:53:36]

And we expect any moment the President-elect to introduce his new economic team, and we will take you there live. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: The European agency responsible for drug approvals set a timetable for companies to present their data in order to get emergency vaccine approval. Let's check with CNN correspondents around the globe for pandemic coverage.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Fred Pleitgen in Eshwege. As Germany is beginning of the construction of mass vaccination centers. And essentially what they're going to do here is they're going to put up a lot of fridges and freezers for those ultra-cold stored vaccine, and then bring a lot of people through here to get vaccinated.

Now the way it's going to work is that first of all, people are going to come into this room where they're first of all going to talk to a doctor to see if there's any prior medical conditions, then they're going to go through one of these four rooms. And this is where people will get the actual vaccine job.

Now you can see that there's four rooms, because there might be a person who's taking off his or her shirt. Another person might be putting their stuff back on simply so they can get more people through these vaccination rooms. Now the Germans are saying that they can vaccinate about 1,000 people in these centers every day.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: I'm Salma Abdelaziz in London where Prime Minister Boris Johnson is facing a tough session in the Houses of Parliament just behind me here. He's trying to convince lawmakers to pass a three tier regional restriction system to replace a nationwide lockdown here in England that's supposed to expire at midnight.

That means the clock is ticking to persuade many lawmakers who feel that the economic consequences of this regional approach are too high. The Prime Minister started the session in Parliament by saying, we cannot afford to relax, we cannot lift all restrictions at once. He's facing skepticism from his own party but also opposition from the Labour Party which have said there to abstain from the vote. The Prime Minister is expected to get this vote through but it might be a very long night.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[13:00:08]