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U.K. To Begin Vaccinating Thousands Of People Next Week; CNN: Trump Discussing Pardons For Adult Children, Son-In-Law; FDA Chiefs Meets Again With White House Chief Of Staff; Senator Doug Jones On COVID Relief, Political Division In U.S.; CNN: New Mexico Governor Is Leading Contender For HHS Secretary. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 02, 2020 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers in the United States, and around the world. I'm Dana Bash in Washington. Global optimism, today, on the Coronavirus, after the British give a green light to a vaccine. The pandemic is marching towards new highs, though, here in the U.S. 98,000 plus Americans sitting in hospital wings with the virus, this hour. 13.7 million total cases, 270,000 total deaths.

The numbers rank worst in the world. Meanwhile, President Trump, appears focused on what matters to him, legal deliberations in the White House in recent weeks concern the president's family. Sources confirm to CNN that the president is actively considering pardoning his children, his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, as well as Rudy Giuliani.

Meanwhile, the CDC today, revising its quarantine guidelines and advising Americans to postpone their holiday travel, once again. And the White House Coronavirus Task Force sent this blunt message to the states. It said, we are in a very dangerous place.

Still, the vaccine news, today, does offer hope. The start of the end of the pandemic, is how one official puts it. That is the best-case scenario. But, listen to British officials who are leading the way. They are still cautious.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT HANCOCK, UK HEALTH SECRETARY: I'm very proud that the UK is the first place in the world to have a clinically-authorized vaccine. Ready to go.

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It's very, very good news. But it is, by no means, the end of the story. It is not the end of our national struggle against - against Coronavirus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: British government approval for a COVID vaccine means people can expect shots to be available as soon as next week. And when they are, the government will leave citizens little excuse not to get it.

England says vaccines should be available at designated sites, seven days a week, from 8 am to 8 pm including holidays. I'm going to get straight to Max Foster in London for much more on this. And Max, the British Prime Minister did urge patients today.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, I think everyone's been quite taken aback by how quickly this approval is come through. But the approval authorities here have set up a new system, really. Normally, they'd go through the various checks and tests on new vaccine, one by one but during this process, they've done so, in parallel.

And throughout the whole manufacturing process as well, they've been in close touch with Pfizer. So all the health authorities here are telling us they don't feel any corners are being cut and this is a safe vaccine, as well as an extremely effective one.

So we understand that the vaccine is being packed up at Pfizer's factory in Belgium. It's on its way to the UK. 800,000 doses, which would mean 400,000 people could be inoculated, as of next week. Initially, those doses will go to hub hospitals then, those will be spread around the country, right down to doctor surgery.

This is a process, as we understand it, vaccines will be offered seven days a week, including holidays, as you say. A minimum of 975 vaccines will be delivered per week, per center. So, they are really trying to get it out. They are assuming that each person will take two doses between - you need two doses for a course.

And the priority will be given to those over the age of 80 and those in care homes. Boris Johnson, as you say, warning, though that it will take months for the entire population to be inoculated. So, he urged caution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: I think, at this stage, it is very, very important that people do not get their hopes up too soon about the speed, with which we'll be able to roll out this vaccine. As we roll out the vaccine over the next few weeks, speaker, we will need to keep that tough tiring and testing regimes in place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Nevertheless, Dana, some much-needed, good news, in this pretty difficult year.

BASH: Indeed. Max Foster, thank you for that report. And I want to get straight to CNN's Sara Murray, who is also covering the vaccine news. Sara, the first shipments of Pfizer's Coronavirus vaccine, scheduled to be delivered December 15th. So, in just about two weeks. What are the biggest concerns that we are hearing from officials?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look. There is a lot that still needs to be worked out. By the end of this week, states need to tell the federal government exactly how many doses that they would like to get, and where they want those doses to go. And then, assuming everything goes well, and that the FDA quickly authorizes these vaccines, the Pfizer vaccine is set to go out on December 15th, and it would be followed by the Moderna vaccine on December 22nd.

Again, these are tentative dates because the FDA has to authorize these products before they go out but they're supposed to go out within 24 hours of that authorization. Now, with the Pfizer vaccine, especially, that's a super cold vaccine. It has to be stored carefully. And so, in the U.S., they are pretty closely watching the UK to see how this goes. Here is what Jose Romero, who is the Head of the CDC Advisory Committee said about that today.

[12:05:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JOSE ROMERO, CHAIR, CDC ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON IMMUNIZATION PRACTICES: I think we will learn, principally, is how this transport system works? The dry ice transport system. Does it keep the vaccine cold? Are there any issues involved in - in getting the vaccine out from a central point into the public sector? We can learn from that, and adjust our plans, as necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Now, once these vaccines go out, it's really up to states to figure out how to get them into people's arms. And so, they start with health care workers. Even there though, a lot of states may not have enough of the vaccine in the initial tranche to vaccinate everyone. So they're looking at, if you deal with COVID patients on a day to day basis, you would be at the front of that line.

BASH: Which makes a lot of sense? Sara, thank you so much for that reporting. And once companies likes Pfizer start shipping vaccine doses across the U.S., the process of distributing them, that will fall to the states and they're not all on the same page. I want to bring in Jen Kates, who is the Senior Vice President at Kaiser Family Foundation.

She and some of her colleagues analyzed 47 of the states' plans on handling the vaccine. Thank you so much for joining me and you looked at the states' plans that they submitted back in October. They are actually due to be updated by this Friday. But you say, basically, there are 51 different strategies for making sure Americans have access to the vaccine. How prepared do you think they really are?

JEN KATES, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, KAISER FAMILY FOUNDATION: Right. So, hi, good to be here. We looked at the state plans and what we found is that states are really all over the map, in terms of their preparedness, for good reason.

They're struggling to combat COVID, at the same time they are trying to ramp up for the vaccine. Some states are quite prepared. Others aren't. And like you said, we are going to see a very different picture, depending upon where people live. BASH: And are there states that you - you looked at that are, clearly,

problematic? You know, big populations but don't really have a good plan that we should be focused on?

KATES: Yes. There were definitely states that you might expect would have better plans than they did. We didn't grade them. I think they all get an A for effort. But there were several that really had just begun this process and have a long way to go.

And others that were way ahead of the game, relatively speaking. So, I think, though they submitted those last month and hopefully a lot more has occurred, since then, and they'll be better prepared.

BASH: And one of the many logistical questions and challenges is going to be people have to get more than one dose. So, do states have plans, specifically, to track people who get one dose and make sure they get the second?

KATES: Right. So that's a critical issue. All states were asked about that and states reported that they were putting plans in place to track that and notify individuals. But I think that's going to be a place to pay very close attention to, to make sure that people know they have to come back, that get that information, and do come back. We anticipate that being a challenge.

BASH: Yes. I would imagine. And your report also says the majority of states are still developing ways to calculate the number of people in their priority groups. We know the CDC Advisory Committee, just yesterday, said that they should go, the vaccine should go to healthcare workers, first those living in long-term care facilities. You say that some states don't even know how many people that are that they have to do that.

KATES: Correct. Correct. States were asked to identify the number or estimates of the number of people in these different priority groups and several said we are just beginning to - to figure that out. We don't, necessarily, have the models, yet, to do it or we don't have the census data to do it. And so, that's going to be another area where states have to figure out who they are trying to reach, where they are trying to reach them.

BASH: Such good news, but so many challenges and actually delivering on that good news. Thank you so much for joining me and for the report that you and your colleagues did to help us understand it. And up next, President Trump's potential pardon list, includes some of his closest allies and his family.

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[12:10:00]

BASH: The first family may, soon, get an extra layer of legal protection, courtesy of their dad. The president, in recent weeks, discussed issuing pardons to his adult children and his son-in-law, a source familiar with the matter confirmed to CNN. Also, on the potential-pardon list, the President's Attorney, Rudy Giuliani. Plus, a legal mystery was unsealed in a court document last night. A Justice Department investigation into a possible bribe for potential pardon scheme. Let's talk about all this with CNN's Kaitlan Collins at the White House. And first, Kaitlan, what are you hearing from your sources about how serious these pardon talks are?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They are serious and they're under discussion. And we know that our reporting was that after the president had pardoned Michael Flynn, we were only told that more people were on the list of potential pardons before he does leave office.

And so, now, we have learned from sources that he has discussed potential pardons for people like Rudy Giuliani, his children, and of course, his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, as well. And so, of course, the question for that would be, what is the reason that the president would be pardoning them? What is their criminal exposure?

And we know what happened with Donald Trump Jr. and the Russia investigation, as well as Jared Kushner and the talks on his security- clearance forms that he had to resubmit several times after leaving off contacts with foreigners.

And the other thing, the question about, you knows, Eric Trump, Ivanka Trump, Rudy Giuliani, potentially. It's not clear, but there is basically this fear that the president has, after the Mueller investigation, that overzealous prosecutors could decide to come after him or his family, after he leaves office. So, whether or not he actually follows through with it is still, to be determined. But it is something that is being discussed right now.

BASH: And, Kaitlan, yesterday, at this time, we talked about the FDA Commissioner being summoned to the White House to meet with the White House Chief of Staff. You are learning he is back there, again.

COLLINS: Yes. This is two days, in a row, which normally, you would not think that's surprising to have the FDA Chief meeting with the Chief of Staff at the White House. But it is, because, of course, we know this comes as the Chief of Staff, Mark Meadows, the president, several other officials have been frustrated with the FDA Commissioner over the timing of emergency approvals for those vaccines that have been submitted, which the FDA has said takes time.

[12:15:00]

COLLINS: Career scientists are going through the data but now, we've got Dr. Hahn back at the White House, again, for a second day in a row meeting with Mark Meadows after yesterday was a pretty tense meeting between the two. As Meadows was basically in charge of relaying the president's frustration.

So, where this ultimately lands, we do not know right now. But we do know this, two days in a row for them to meet, given the circumstances and the backdrop is quite notable. BASH: Well, seeing it approved across the pond, before here, I'm -

it's probably not a - a big leap to think that, that's part of the discussion that they're having inside the White House right now. Kaitlan, thank you so much. I appreciate that reporting. And joining me, now, CNN Legal Analyst and former Federal Prosecutor, Elliot Williams.

Thank you, Elliot. Good to see you. So, let's talk about this pardons report - these potential pardons. Reporting suggests that the president is angling to pardon, potentially, his whole family. His adult children, his son-in-law, even himself. Is that legal?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS: CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. You know, something that people need to know is that the president's pardon power, every president's pardon power is quite broad and very - there's very few checks on it and very few abilities to limit it. So, yes, he can pardon his family members and he can pardon them preemptively.

We know that Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon, broadly speaking, for any conduct that, "he might have engaged in while - while Nixon was president. And so, it's very broad. You know, the issue is, is it an abuse of power? You know, the solution is to elect a president who is not going to abuse it, it's not to do anything about the pardon power but no, Dana, he really does have that power.

BASH: Or right a statute that's more specifically, you know, explains what the power is? But, on this, just even the notion that the president is in these deliberations. I mean, you know, you would think that he - he would be worried. That it's an acknowledgment that there's some - something there. I mean, Kaitlan was just reporting that it's about, you know, out-of-control prosecutors and so on and so forth. But, there's definitely another side to that coin.

WILLIAMS: It's not even a worry. It's an acknowledgment that some crime would have been committed. The whole point of a pardon is that it flows from sort of what you call the date of the offense that a crime merely was committed. It doesn't have to be charged or anything.

So yes, necessarily, by pardoning people, he would be acknowledging that his daughter or sons or Rudy Giuliani would have committed an offense. Now, does that matter to the president? What's probably far more important is exonerating these people. But, no, he would really be admitting, by issuing that pardon, that they did commit some act of criminal wrongdoing.

BASH: And on the pardon question, just real quick. We talked, earlier, about the fact that there are documents that were unsealed that showed that the DOJ is actively investigating what they call a secret- lobbying scheme bribe - potential bribe for presidential pardon that's going on.

The consensus is, on legal Twitter, which, you know, keep that in the category probably that it deserves, but the party has a last name ending with S. Can you, further, dissect this, as somebody who looks at documents like this, often? WILLIAMS: You know, honestly, it's just not productive at this point

to try to divine who might be behind the redactions or whatever? The simple fact is, we don't know that anyone in the White House, A, was specifically targeted but, B, that they did anything with the information when they were approached.

What you know is that somewhere, somebody thought they could get to the White House, and would benefit by trying to pay the White House off. Now, the president has sort of opened the door to that for the last several years that people now believe that there is some sort of sense of pay to play. But we should be very careful about not pulling the White House into this, just yet, until we have more information.

BASH: That's very important. Good point that you made. Elliot. Good to see you, as always.

WILLIAMS: Of course.

BASH: Thank you. And up next, an update on who President-Elect Biden may nominate to the nation's top job when it comes to health care, the HHS Secretary. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:00]

BASH: New reporting into CNN. The Biden Campaign is now narrowing its list of potential picks to lead the Department of Health and Human Services. I want to get straight to CNN's Jeff Zeleny with the news. Jeff.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Dana, we are learning that New Mexico Governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham, is one of the final contenders, perhaps the final contender, for that critical rule to be Secretary of Health and Human Services. Now she of course has been a key leader in New Mexico in the fight against COVID.

And also has so many other credentials. She, of course, is Governor, but served in congress and was also a State Health Secretary. So she brings more to this than most any other contenders being considered. There also has been a push by members of the Hispanic congress.

32 lawmakers signed a letter to the Biden transition saying they were urging him, imploring him to nominate her for this post. But I am told by a Biden-transition official, that she and her credentials meet these criteria on their own. She's already been a finalist for this post. And we do believe she is expected to be named in the coming weeks. Now this is one of the big cabinet positions that we are still waiting for.

[12:25:00]

ZELENY: Of course, attorney general is one. The Defense Secretary is one and Health and Human Services. This of course will play a pivotal role in the fight against the Coronavirus. So, for right now, we are told she is a leading contender, the final contender, and we will see when that announcement is made. Everyone expects it to be her, Dana.

BASH: Jeff Zeleny, great reporting, as always. Thank you. And a programming note, Jake Tapper talks to President-Elect Joe Biden and Vice President-Elect Kamala Harris, in their first joint interview since winning the election. You can see that Thursday night, 9:00 pm, only on CNN.

And up next, Senator Doug Jones joins me to talk about COVID economic relief and his final weeks in the senate. And as we go to break, speaking of that, Tennessee Republican Senator, Lamar Alexander, a close friend of majority leader Mitch McConnell says, farewell on the senate floor, after 18 years in office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): You're leaving this body and those of us in it, and the nation it exists to serve is stronger and better because you were here.

SEN. LAMAR ALEXANDER (R-TE): I love the traditions of the Senate. The hard, marble floors, the elaborate courtesies, Barry Black's prayers scratching my name besides Howard Baker and Fred Thompson's name in this desk drawer. I wake up every day, thinking I might be able to do something good to help our country and then, I go to bed most nights thinking that I have, I yield the floor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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