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Sen. Doug Jones (D-AL) Is Interviewed About Sen. McConnell's $908 Billion Stimulus Plan Shut Down; U.K. Is First Country To Approve Pfizer COVID Vaccine; Sen. Armed Services Chief: Congress Will Defy Trump's Veto Threat On Defense Bill. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired December 02, 2020 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:31:19]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: After months of stalemate, Republican and Democratic lawmakers are feeling the pressure to pass coronavirus relief measures for struggling Americans who already lost some federal aid and are about to lose key benefits set to expire at the end of this month.

A bipartisan group of senators and House members yesterday joined forces on a nearly $1 trillion plan. Last night, the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer sent their own proposal to GOP leaders. And now Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has his own plan. So three stimulus ideas and so far, still deadlocked. So, one of the senators who worked on the bipartisan effort Independent Angus King of Maine said this about McConnell this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): He's got a listen, and I'm hoping he's going to listen to the members of his caucus saying look, we need to do something is urgent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Joining me now is Democratic Senator Doug Jones of Alabama. Thank you so much for joining me, Senator. Let's start with this issue. Where do you see relief negotiations heading right now?

SEN. DOUG JONES (D-AL): Well, I'm very hopeful. This is should have been done a long time ago. We've known for months, months, and months that this virus was not going away anytime soon, until we got a vaccine. And that's still several months away for the general public. We need to get this relief for the American people. We need to get this relief for hospital workers. We need to get this relief for city and county governments. And it's never too late. But we're getting that way right now. And this is an emergency situation.

Our economy is going to depend on whether or not the Congress can act. And now that this election is over, I'm hoping that people can put that partisanship aside and get this done for the American people.

BASH: I want to dig in on a couple of the specific sticking points. My colleague Lauren Fox, you know, who covers you up there, she wrote this morning that even the bipartisan group couldn't find agreement on things like how much flexibility should there be in state and local funding and finding a sweet spot on liability protections. What's your sense of those two things?

JONES: I think those -- yes, I think those are our sticking points. I think there should be some way to find common ground on the liability protections. I think the proposal that was put on the floor a couple of months ago was far too extensive, and was a really a nonstarter for so many people. But there's got to be some protections for our businesses, for hospitals and others.

But I think that they can find that common ground to do that. People just have to get to work. We've got a couple more weeks in this session in this Congress to do this. And I think people are rising up and demanding it. And I really believe based on what I'm seeing and hearing that folks see that urgency and see the need to do something and they won't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. That's the key here.

BASH: Well, that's good to hear. I want to talk to you more broadly, if I may, Senator, about the polarized state of Congress. You were defeated by a Republican opponent last month. But for almost three years, you have been a Democrat in the halls of the Senate, representing one of the reddest states in the union. So given that unique experience, what can you tell the American people who are really worried about how divided America is right now?

JONES: Well, you know, Dana, I think I've said this many times, I think America is more divided than Washington, D.C. What I see in the halls of the United States Senate is a lot of folks talking to each other, trying to find common ground, trying to work together.

Unfortunately, what the American people see, through the eyes of the media and on Senate floor speeches, they see dueling press conferences. They see political speeches on the floor. They don't see all the work that's going on, like the bipartisan group of senators who's trying to get this bill passed for COVID relief. There's a lot of that that goes on.

What I'm hoping as we start, I think that it comes from the top. And I think you've got a leader in Joe Biden who can lead from it by example. He's done it his entire career. And I think when you've got that President that can do that. And I do not believe that Donald Trump has done that, has set that appropriate example. Joe Biden can. And I'm very hopeful the next Congress and for this administration.

[12:35:17]

BASH: And I notice you often voted your conscience even if it could get you in trouble with your constituents back home, you voted to impeach President Trump and against the confirmation of Justice Brett Kavanaugh. I say this respectfully, because my question is, was that because you saw that you could likely be a short time or they're, given the fact that you were representing Alabama? What was what went through some of the good thought processes during those tough votes?

JONES: Well, you know, look, I've never at the end of the day, quite frankly, saw those as tough votes. I looked at qualifications. I looked at the evidence in those particular instances. And I voted according to my principles. And I think that some people really, more people up here, I'll put the politics aside, this is not about winning elections, this is about doing your job for the American people, living up the obligations. And that doesn't mean taking a poll. It doesn't mean putting your finger to the political polls. It means doing what you've learned to do all your life. And that's follow your conscience, your moral compass to try to do what you believe to be the right thing.

And if folks did not appreciate that, there were a lot of folks in Alabama that did not. But at the same time, there were a lot that did. And so I think having a voice for those in Alabama that needed a voice for a long time has been very important over the last three years. And so I have no regrets on any of those votes at all.

BASH: I want to ask about your party, you are a Democrat from the Deep South. Are you worried that the party is too focused on the coasts, too focused on the big cities and are being driven, is the party being driven too much by progressives? How do you see the party going in the future?

JONES: Well, I hope and I believe that the party will continue to be a big tent party. You know, being a big tent party is both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, you got people in either extremes of that big tent, who like to fight with each other a little bit. But at the end of the day, we all want the same things. We all want good health care for the American people. We all want good jobs and good paying jobs and try to lower that, you know, to narrow the income gap that we've got out there.

We want to keep America secure both in our elections as well as our national security. How you get there is I think is the issue. And I believe that we can do that. And I'm really hopeful for the Democratic Party. They see the problems that we got in some of the rural areas. They understand that and I believe as we go forward, they're going to see the messages because it was the Democratic Party that brought Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, all of those issues that those rural areas need, and they won't.

BASH: Before I let you go, I have to ask you two quick questions. One is Attorney General William Barr, he appointed U.S. Attorney Durham as a special counsel to investigate the origins of the Russia probe. His investigation will continue into the Biden administration. Some of your colleagues say Barr is manipulating the special counsel law to continue a politically motivated investigation. What's your take?

JONES: Well, I don't know the answer to that, because I don't know all the facts. And I don't think anybody up here knows all the facts. I do know John Durham. I've known him for a long time. He's a real respected prosecutor. I think he follows the law. So I think we'll have to see as this investigation continues. I think it appears to me that it was inappropriate to go ahead and name a special counsel, it's kind of insulting to the incoming administration to do that, to try to give protections that should be protected anyway. If there is investigations there, it should be continued. If not, should be shut down. It's just that simple.

BASH: And there has been reporting, as you know, probably that the Biden transition team is considering you for the role of Attorney General. Would you like that position or any other in the Biden administration?

JONES: Well, you know, Dana, I've known Joe Biden for 40 years. I know Kamala Harris as well. And I want them to succeed. And I've said all along, if I can help in that any way, I'm more than happy to look and consider whatever might come my way. I just want them to succeed. And I've been very pleased with the picks that he's had so far and he's doing. He's fulfilling his promise to America to be an inclusive president, have an inclusive cabinet, have an inclusive administration. And I think that's incredibly important as we go forward.

BASH: Doug Jones, thank you so much for coming on. I had the honor of being with you on one of John Lewis's civil rights pilgrimages, and I got to talk to you in your home state of Alabama. And that was really, really a treat. And, you know, I think everybody will join me in saying thank you for your service. And we'll see what's next.

JONES: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Good to be with you.

[12:40:00]

BASH: You too.

And up next, the first two shipments of two COVID-19 vaccine shipments are set to go out this month. What that means for the general public.

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BASH: A major break today in the race to approve a coronavirus vaccine. The U.K. is now the first country to approve emergency use of Pfizer's vaccine. Here in the U.S., the FDA meets next week to discuss its approval. And according to an Operation Warp Speed document obtained by CNN, Pfizer's first shipments will be delivered December 15th.

[12:45:13]

Now all this, developing as a CDC Advisory Committee voted to vaccinate health care workers and those in nursing homes first, once the vaccine is approved. Dr. Larry Corey is a virologist at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. And he is co-leading the vaccine testing program for the COVID-19 prevention network. Doctor, thank you so much for joining me. First, your reaction to the fact that the U.K. has approved this vaccine.

DR. LARRY COREY, DIRECTOR, COVID-19 PREVENTION NETWORK'S OPERATIONS PROGRAM: Well, it's a wonderful moment to be able to see these highly effective vaccines, especially in preventing hospitalizations start to come to the people and we seem to feel for the American people very shortly.

BASH: And Doctor, I want to ask you about the shipments coming out or going out in the U.S., here in the U.S. in December. According to the Operation Warp Speed document that I just referenced, that's when it's going to happen. What do you think that means overall, for the timing?

COREY: Well, I think we anticipate by the end of December that both the Pfizer vaccine and the Moderna vaccine, which are essentially the same vaccines in the sense that they use the same part of RNA will be available. I think the hardest thing for us to now come to grips with is that there is not going to be enough vaccine to vaccinate everybody who deserves to be vaccinated. It's going to take a little while to build up the supply.

BASH: And do you have any sense of what that timing is?

COREY: Well, I think we'll see vaccine scarcity for oath until the end of April. I think we only expect to see about 20 million doses in December. And that will be just as you said, to medical workers and to persons in nursing home. But the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, also essential workers, that's 90 million people in the country, the elderly, and those who have comorbidities and other 90 million people in the country. So that's a lot of people and a lot of doses. And we won't have nearly that much too much later in the year.

BASH: And before I let you go, I have to ask there was one vote against the CDC recommendation yesterday from Dr. Helen Talbot of Vanderbilt, and she told the meeting, we hope it works, and we hope it's safe, that concerns me on many levels. Is she right to be concerned that we don't know enough yet about the vaccine and its impact?

COREY: Well, I think there's some things about the vaccine, we don't know, which is does it relieve mask wearing? Could you just -- we do know with a lot of very good data that it will prevent hospitalizations and severe disease. And we do know these trials were very large 30,000 and 44,000. And we didn't have any short term side effects. So it's safe. I would give it to myself. I'm recommending that my relatives who qualify and my colleagues in the medical field receive the vaccine.

BASH: That is so important to hear that you would take it yourself, you would recommend it for your loved ones, extremely important.

COREY: Yes, absolutely.

BASH: Dr. Larry Corey, thank you so much for joining me appreciate it.

COREY: Pleasure to be here.

[12:48:24]

BASH: And coming up, Georgia voters are getting inundated with ads for the two Senate runoffs there. We're going to dig into the messaging wars, next.

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BASH: Former astronaut and retired Navy Captain Mark Kelly sworn in as U.S. Senator this hour after defeating Republican incumbent Martha McSally in a special election. He'll finish the remainder of late Senator John McCain's term. In fact, Kelly paid tribute to McCain yesterday by visiting his grave with his wife, former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords. Kelly tweeted Senator McCain has been a hero of mine since I was a young pilot he left a legacy of service to Arizona and country that can't be matched, but that we all should strive towards.

Meanwhile, Georgia's airwaves are being flooded with ads on the two critical runoff races on January 5th that will decide who controls the U.S. Senate. Total ad spending already surpassed $318 million. And when it comes to messaging, there is no one size fits all approach. Listen to this from the contest between Senator Kelly Loeffler and Reverend Raphael Warnock.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REVEREND RAPHAEL WARNOCK, CANDIDATE FOR U.S. SENATOR: Police power, the kind of gangster and thug mentality.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Warnock attacks are police.

WARNOCK: Somebody's got to open up the jails.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Raphael Warnock is dangerous. Raphael Warnock, The Radical's Radical.

WARNOCK: When people have no vision they revert to division. And that's what you're seeing from my opponent right now. While she's busy calling me names. Let me tell you where I stand. I believe that in the greatest nation in the world, people should have affordable health care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Joining me now to discuss this is CNN's Manu Raju. And Manu, labeling Democrats too radical is about as a classic, a campaign message as it gets, particularly in a swing state, in this case, kind of a Republican state. What do you take away from those messages that we just heard?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. One thing that has happened in that race in particular, the Republicans believe that Raphael Warnock has really not been defined much because so much of this raise up until November was focused on the fight between Kelly Loeffler and Doug Collins. Remember, this is an unusual state, a runoff state.

[12:55:13]

And in this particular race, there was no primary it was just a special election. So both Kelly Loeffler and Doug Collins were fighting among themselves try to get in to the runoff to face Raphael Warnock and ahead of that January 5th runoff. So a lot of the attacks have not been focused on him. So that's why you are seeing this onslaught of attacks. And very, as you mentioned it, a very classic attack about Democrats being too liberal for the state.

And that, at the end of the day, this is going to be turned out to be a base election, the Republicans believe they need to drive up their basis like Donald Trump is going there to help both Loeffler and David Perdue on Saturday. Democrats, though, believe that the Republicans are miscalculating here in large ways because of just the growth of voters particularly in the Atlanta suburbs, one reason why that Joe Biden carry that state and one reason why they're hopeful. But of course at the end of the other day, who comes out in votes on January 5th, when there's no President, President in the top of the ticket, still anyone's guess here.

BASH: Yes, January 5th is not a typical day to go out and vote. But obviously there's a lot of attention there. And on that, I want to play a snippet of ads from the other runoff going on in Georgia, Perdue and Ossoff. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DAVID PERDUE (R-GA): Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, and Jon Ossoff want total control. They want Georgia, they'll have it. And what does that mean for you? Illegal immigrants, voting, police, defunded, taxes, sky high.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Since COVID, we had to close our main dining room. We lost all of that business. David Perdue knew what was about to happen. He was getting classified briefings about the pandemic but instead of him being concerned about us, he upselling stock.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: What's your take on those dueling messages, Manu?

RAJU: Yes, Jon Ossoff has been trying to make this case, about this race about COVID not just about the response by the Republican leadership in the White House, but also about David Perdue stock trading and reports, very damaging reports about David Perdue getting involved in potential -- potentially trading on inside information that he has had.

Now, he denied that. He said that he's been cleared by the investigative bodies. But he has also not answered a lot of questions. And David Perdue himself have not agreed to debate Jon Ossoff. He is taking this almost exclusively to the airwaves appearing in rallies not answering questions from reporters and not engaging in debates and hopes -- he hopes that'll be enough to carry him in traditionally Republican state.

BASH: It certainly is going to be a base election. Before I let you go, I want to turn to another issue that I know that you've got some reporting on. And this is about the fact that President Trump is threatening to veto a massive defense spending bill over social media. What are you hearing from members of Congress?

RAJU: Republicans are ready to defy the President on this. I just spoke to the Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Jim Inhofe, who said that they will not listen to what the President is saying here. The President is demanding a rollback of those protections for social media companies, including Twitter to be included in that massive $740 billion defense spending bill.

Inhofe said that will not be a part of this bill. He said it is too important to get this bill through because of how important it is to the military adding that provision and will only complicate the matters. He said he told me that he talked to the President about this a couple of nights ago.

And also, Dana, he said they're going to defy the President and include a provision that would lead to the renaming of military properties that are named currently after confederate leaders. Remember, the President has threatened to veto this bill over that as well. So on two key issues here, that Republicans are signaling, they're not going to listen to the President. They're going to move ahead.

And Inhofe is a very close ally of this President, but what's more important to members on both sides, as you know, Dana, that this bill is so essential, it had been passed every single year for more than half a century in Congress. And despite the President's threats to veto it over unrelated matters over that social media issue, they're basically saying, no, it's not going to happen, and they're going to move their own way here.

BASH: And just so our viewers know, it's called Section 230. It is about social media. It's the President's way of trying to kind of retaliate for ways that he doesn't think he was treated fairly on social media, but as you alluded to the fact that he is choosing to do this on the defense bill, which is must pass and so important to so many of his fellow Republicans is, you know, kind of mind boggling, but as you also know, it's tough when you're in a lame duck session, and there's not a lot of other -- there aren't a lot of options, other vehicles to pass it on. Manu, Thank you so much for that reporting. Appreciate it.

RAJU: Thanks, Dana.

[12:59:55]

BASH: Thank you. And thank you for joining us. Brianna Keilar will pick up our coverage right now.