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COVID-19 Vaccine Trial Participant Explains Experience; Bill Barr's Meeting With President Trump Reportedly Contentious; Interview with Gov. Ned Lamont (D-CT). Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 03, 2020 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

YASIR BATALVI, VACCINE TRIAL PARTICIPANT: And the potential of folks not getting this vaccine and actually infecting people with COVID, those effects last a lot longer and they can be life or death.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are early days, and the two vaccine frontrunners in this country, Pfizer and Moderna, use a type of genetic sequence called mRNA. It's a technology that has never before been used in humans outside of a clinical trial.

mRNA stands for messenger RNA. It carries the instruction for making whatever protein you want, in this case, the spike protein the virus uses to enter our cells.

These vaccines require two doses, one to prime, one to boost, a few weeks apart so the body mounts what we hope will be a lasting immune response.

One of the biggest concerns now is that the side effects that Yasir is describing -- fatigue, muscle pain, fever and chills -- will deter people from getting that second dose.

MONCEF SLAOUI, CHIEF SCIENTIFIC ADVISER, OPERATION WARP SPEED: Every (ph) 10, 15 percent of the subjects immunized have quite noticeable side effects that usually last no more than 24, 36 hours.

GUPTA (on camera): Do you worry about the impact of this vaccine on you long-term?

BATALVI: I gave it a lot of thought, and the only thing that gave me some calm was trying to research the actual vaccine, trying to understand how mRNA vaccines work.

GUPTA (voice-over): We understand this for sure: You can't get infected from this vaccine because the vaccine doesn't actually contain the virus. And even though these are genetic-based vaccines, they don't alter our DNA. And as far as those side effects go, that may even be a good sign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That means your immune response is working for you, you should feel good about that and it shouldn't really be any difficulty coming back for that second shot, knowing that you're now in a much better position to fight off this awful virus.

GUPTA (voice-over): For now, Yasir is looking forward to his next appointment, which is on December 10th, the exact day the FDA might authorize the first vaccine for COVID-19.

BATALVI: So I put my name down because I just -- I felt so helpless. It's public service. I have to do it because I think mass-scale vaccination is really the only realistic way out of the pandemic that we're in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: So there you go, Jim. I mean, this is fascinating technology, these new vaccines, but in order for this to have an impact at a public health sort of a countrywide level, people got to take it. You know, 70 percent of people need to be immunized roughly to get that herd immunity.

Right now as you know, Jim, if you look at the polling data, around 58 percent of people say they would take it. So continued to educate them about it, hopefully helps.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And what is the degree of concern that that number will not come up? Because you've got the twin challenges here, right? Of sort of general skepticism about vaccines and then the enormous amount of disinformation coming from the president and others about the seriousness of the pandemic.

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, it's -- I don't think I've ever seen a situation quite like this, where people have such a cognitive dissonance, right? They're so hopeful about something but they're afraid that it's baked into this distrust because of other decisions, for example, that we've seen out of this administration.

The FDA for example, giving an emergency use authorization to hydroxychloroquine. Well, you gave an EUA to that, now you're thinking about an EUA for this vaccine? Am I equating these two things?

What I can tell you is it's a very different process for the vaccines: independent committees meet, there's various advisory committees both within the FDA and the CDC, so there's a lot of steps and checks and balances for this.

So I -- you know, and you mentioned the three presidents who are planning on getting this, you know, even televised, you've seen those sorts of strategies work around the world. I remember similar sort of things happening with polio vaccines in Africa for example, community leaders stepping up and saying, look, I will do it right with you.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GUPTA: So it's worrisome but I think it's also addressable.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, let's hope we have better leadership on that going forward. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks very much.

GUPTA: You got it, Jim.

[10:34:03]

SCIUTTO: So it Attorney General Bill Barr, one of the president's biggest defenders, now on thin ice himself after he took the step of telling the truth about the election? We're learning about a contentious meeting at the White House. We'll have details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Contentious, that's how a source is describing at meeting at the White House between President Trump and the attorney general, Bill Barr this week.

The president, frustrated with the attorney general for some time, but Barr's recent comments to the "Associated Press," where he said that the Justice Department had found no evidence of election fraud that would change the election outcome, added to Trump's anger. That interview caused the president to erupt, multiple people familiar with his reaction said.

CNN's John Harwood at the White House. Do we know that Barr's job is in danger now, that he did not do the president's bidding here?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know, Jim, that Bill Barr's job as attorney general will expire in no longer than seven weeks, that's how much time they have left in the administration. The question is whether President Trump cuts it even shorter than that.

Bill Barr has consistently been a pliant attorney general, helping the president with the rollout of the Mueller report, humoring him publicly on everything from interference in the election by outside powers, saying it was more China than Russia, humoring his theories about mail-in balloting and the problems there.

But Bill Barr ultimately collided with reality and would not cross the line in two ways. One, John Durham, the prosecutor he appointed to look into whether or not there was wrongdoing in the investigation that targeted President Trump on Russia, came up with essentially nothing. And secondly, when he took a look at the claims that widespread fraud had tilted the election, he's also concluded that there's basically nothing there.

[10:40:22]

He said so, that's the truth, that's widely accepted by everyone who's looked at the evidence but the truth is something that would require President Trump to admit the humiliating fact that he was defeated by Joe Biden. He doesn't want to do that. So could he respond by firing Bill Barr in the next couple of weeks? Not sure that would accomplish very much but he might do it anyway.

SCIUTTO: In the service of his ego.

OK, so the president, planning pardons for a whole host of people, perhaps even himself.

HARWOOD: That's right. This is a president who puts himself first, and so what he is looking to do is use the awesome power of the pardon -- that also expires at the end of seven weeks -- to try to protect himself going forward.

So he pardoned Michael Flynn, who lied to the FBI about his contacts with Russia. Of course Russia was a core question surrounding President Trump. Why did he welcome that assistance and all of the evidence of obstruction of justice that Robert Mueller laid out.

There's a question of whether Paul Manafort gets a pardon -- Manafort, of course, was his campaign chairman, he's somebody with ties to Russia that -- through pro-Russian, Ukrainian politicians, he withheld cooperation from Robert Mueller, and so he may know things that are adverse to the president.

And then you've got close family members of the president, his children. Donald Trump Jr. was involved in setting up the meeting with Russian representatives.

So there are a lot of people close to the president who, by protecting them, he may be protecting himself and protecting himself is job one for Donald Trump.

SCIUTTO: John Harwood at the White House, thanks very much.

Positivity rates for COVID are surging across the country, including in the state of Connecticut. Could a statewide shutdown now be on the horizon? We're going to discuss that and vaccine distribution plans with the state's governor, Ned Lamont. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:46:45]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Well, like much of the country right now, Connecticut is dealing with spikes in new infections, positivity rates and hospitalizations. That is raising serious concerns from health experts about whether the governor should consider imposing another statewide shutdown. So I'm joined now by the governor of Connecticut, Ned Lamont.

Governor, thanks for joining us this morning.

GOV. NED LAMONT (D-CT): Good morning, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So first question there, are you considering a statewide shutdown right now?

LAMONT: No, I want to do things that make a difference. And by far, what makes the biggest difference is people wearing a mask, limiting their social gatherings, staying with closest friends and family. And we've got a positivity rate that's creeping up but it's at five percent, still one of the lowest in the country. This is no time to be talking about a shutdown. SCIUTTO: OK. Vaccines, approvals likely to come within days perhaps.

You just had a meeting regarding your state's plan. What did you learn in that meeting and how quickly do you roll this out?

LAMONT: A week from Monday, we get our first dose of the vaccines from Pfizer. A week thereafter, from Moderna. We should have hundreds of thousands of doses by the end of this month, prioritizing health care workers and nursing homes. We ought to be able to have all of them vaccinated with their second dose by mid, late January.

SCIUTTO: Are you seeing a problem in your state with residents saying they're not going to take the vaccine, either they don't trust it or they believe disinformation coming from the president and others that the outbreak's just not that serious?

LAMONT: We've got a fair number of people saying, how come I'm not in that very first priority group, but there are some who are, let's say, hesitant on vaccines. We've got an advisory group made up of all the members of the different communities, so we go to the community and when it's safe and effective, say, now's the time for your community to take it if you want to be safe for yourself and your family.

SCIUTTO: There's been some criticism recently -- understandable -- that many national leaders -- the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, hosting hundreds of holiday guests at the State Department -- but also Democratic lawmakers -- the governor of California told his constituents stay at home; he went to the French Laundry restaurant. You have Steve Adler, the mayor of Austin, urged residents to stay at home, he traveled to Mexico.

How important is it for leaders -- yourself included -- to set an example?

LAMONT: Look, I work really hard to lead by example, and -- but sometimes if I'm outdoor dining and somebody comes in, I don't have my mask on, bingo, you're on the front of all the blogs (ph). So you do have to be careful because people follow your lead.

SCIUTTO: Fair enough, but I mean you do have cases here of leaders -- Pompeo, even Gavin Newsom in California -- leaders of both parties who tell constituents to do one thing and then they do something differently themselves. How damaging is that?

[10:50:00]

LAMONT: Look, I think some of these folks do it in defiance. You know, a lot of those big parties at the White House were in defiance of wearing a mask. You know, some governors let their guard down and slip, and you've got to be very careful about not letting that happen.

SCIUTTO: Of course, the other element to this -- and I know you hear this from constituents -- is the deep economic costs of the ongoing pandemic.

We have, not far from where I'm sitting right now on the Hill, more talk of another stimulus package, but still differences. You have Democrats coming down to this bipartisan plan of $900 million or so -- $900 billion I should say -- but the Senate majority leader's still holding for something smaller.

What do you say to lawmakers here about the urgency of this help? How much is it needed now?

LAMONT: Mitch McConnell, make the deal. I think the House and Senate have come forward, President Trump as well as Joe Biden say it's time to make a deal. I think we need this money right now. The PPP loans for our small businesses, they're really on the edge of going under and if they go under, you've got a severe recession on your hands.

You know, I need money for testing, I need money to roll out these vaccines, our CARES Act money ends on December 31st. We've got a rainy day fund, but I don't know what my other states are doing on that.

SCIUTTO: Yes, as you know, one of the sticking points for Republican lawmakers has been funding to states, right? They don't want it, they claim that those are states who, you know, have their own financial problems. What's your response to that?

LAMONT: The worst pension crisis in the country is in Mitch McConnell's Kentucky. (INAUDIBLE) Florida has seen their revenues collapse because they rely upon tourism. So don't blame the victim, I think that's the wrong way to go. If you want this country to get out of what could be a knee-knocking recession, now is the time to step up and provide some support so our teachers and our first responders and our nurses and docs can stay at work and get us through this pandemic.

SCIUTTO: Well, Governor Ned Lamont, we wish you, we wish the people of Connecticut the best of luck as you face all this.

LAMONT: Thanks, Jim, good to talk to you again, be safe.

SCIUTTO: Well, the U.S. recorded its deadliest day of the pandemic so far, and the director of the CDC is warning that the worst could still be yet to come. Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:57:13]

SCIUTTO: When Joe Biden and Kamala Harris take office next month, they will both be making history. For the president-elect, he will be one of the few vice presidents to become commander in chief. And for the vice president-elect, she will be the first woman to hold that office.

This Saturday, the new CNN film "PRESIDENT IN WAITING" offers an inside look at the Office of the Vice President. Our Tom Foreman has a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: America is ready, and so are Joe and I. (APPLAUSE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Joe Biden takes the oath as the 46th president, he will offer his vice president, Kamala Harris, a relatively rare asset: a chief executive who knows what it's like in the second chair.

Over more than two centuries, only 15 vice presidents -- including Biden -- have ascended to the top office, over half through the death of a president. And the position has evolved remarkably.

AL GORE (D), FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I sought to avoid the specific jobs that would tie me down and interfere with my ability to be an adviser at large.

FOREMAN: A measure of the explosive change? Consider, while President Franklin Roosevelt kept development of the nuclear bomb secret from his veep, Harry Truman, when Jimmy Carter and Walter Mondale came along, they pioneered a much tighter working relationship.

Accordingly, when George W. Bush needed a running mate, he asked an experienced Washington hand to guide the search. And:

GEORGE W. BUSH (R), FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: During the process, I came to the conclusion that the selector was the best person to be selected.

DICK CHENEY (R), FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (?): And he said, you know, you're the solution to my problem.

FOREMAN: Some critics think Cheney had too much influence, Mike Pence not enough. But with few exceptions, that hands-on model is the definition of the office these days. So when Barack Obama was considering striking terrorist Osama bin Laden, there was Biden, neck- deep in the process.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF HTE UNITED STATES: Literally because of the phases of the moon, we got to a place where the president had 48 hours to make a decision to go or not go.

FOREMAN: Make no mistake, the president is still the decider-in- chief, but the job of vice president is more demanding, more complicated, more consequential than ever before. Gone are the days of veeps who simply waited, watched and faded into

history. Now, they are making it every in every way. Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Thanks very much to Tom Foreman. "PRESIDENT IN WAITING" will premiere Saturday night at 9:00 p.m., only here on CNN.

Well, thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto. NEWSROOM with my colleague Kate Bolduan starts right now.

[11:00:06]