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California on the Brink of Regional Stay-at-Home Orders to Fight Virus Surge; Biden to Ask Americans to Wear a Mask for First 100 Days; Joe Biden: I'm Not Going to Get Involved in DOJ Investigations; Public School Enrollment Falling Nationwide During Pandemic. Aired 9- 9:30a ET
Aired December 04, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Recovery sadly is stalling. The U.S. added just 245,000 jobs in the final report of the year. That's about half of what experts have been predicting. This at the same as the U.S. sees its worst day of the pandemic so far.
That's right. The worst day. Meanwhile, the president, he's still pushing lies, as the president-elect pushes a plan. Yesterday shattered records once again, more deaths, more hospitalizations, more new infections in one day than ever before.
Look at those numbers, they're just staggering. And a key model projects that more than half a million Americans will die by April. That's about double where we are now. But while the nation pins its hopes on a vaccine, and that is good news, it still could be months and months before everyone, before you and me, can get one. So President-elect Biden is pushing this plan in the meantime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I'm going to ask the public for 100 days to mask. Just 100 days to mask. Not forever. 100 days. And I think we'll see a significant reduction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Well, he's right because experts say that universal mask wearing along with a vaccine would save 66,000 lives. That's not a lot to ask to save lives, but the president-elect's plans do not stop there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: We met with governors, Democrat and Republican, as well as 50 Democrat and Republican mayors, and they said they need guidance. They need guidance. And they're going to need a fair amount of money. It's one thing for us to talk about being able to get help out there, but it's not getting there. We're having these hospital stays are overwhelming hospitals right now. There's a need for more financial assistance, there's more financial assistance needed as well when the vaccine comes forward.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, THE LEAD: Are you confident that if and when the FDA does give that approval it will be safe and effective and will you take it?
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D), VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT: Of course I will. And -- but we also want to make sure that the American people know that we are committed, the president-elect and I talk about this all the time, that the people who need it most are going to be a priority.
BIDEN: Once it's declared to be safe, and I think Barack said once Fauci says it's -- that's my measure then obviously we take it. And it's important to communicate to the American people it's safe. It's safe to do this.
TAPPER: Speaking of Fauci, have you spoken with him yet? If so, have you asked him to say on?
BIDEN: Yes and yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Yes and yes. We'll have more from this exclusive CNN sit-down in just a moment. First we begin, though, in California. On the brink of a new stay-at-home order as hospitals in that state fill up. Stephanie Elam is in Los Angeles.
Good morning, Stephanie. Tell us where the stay-at-home orders will take effect and for how long.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, you know, I come and I speak to you every day and we talk about numbers, but I really want to just take a moment to really let this sink into people. 2,879 people were reported dead yesterday because of the coronavirus. Think about how large that number is. Unless you have somebody in that number maybe you don't care but imagine if that's someone you care about. Imagine if that is yourself.
This is where we are right now. It is dire. And that is just the death number. When you look at where we are in cases, we have a record number there as well. 217,664 reported yesterday. Same thing with hospitalizations, at a record number, 100,667. This is dire straits for the state of the United States. And then you take a look at California and you can understand why things are going the wrong direction, and we're looking at a new stay-at-home order here.
Looking at the data for California we saw that the state reported nearly 18,600 cases. However, you know, we keep track by the Johns Hopkins University data. They say that the number is over 21,300, which is obviously a record there as well. Over the last week more than 115,000 people reported being infected with the coronavirus here in the state of California. The positivity for the 14 days is at 7 percent.
With all of this coming out, the governor of California, Gavin Newsom, saying that we are looking at a new stay-at-home order that will be regional and this is going to be based on when ICU bed capacity drops below 15 percent in these five different regions. He is saying that, look, we are almost there, this is the third wave of the coronavirus, but take a listen to what he is saying about why they're doing this now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: There is light at the end of the tunnel. We are a few months away from truly seeing real progress with the vaccine, real distribution, real accessibility, real availability. We do not anticipate having to do this once again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[09:05:07]
ELAM: Now, I can tell you that ICU bed capacity did hit a record in California yesterday. The old record was from July 2nd so during that summer surge, that is why that is of concern there. These five regions, Northern California, the greater Sacramento area, the Bay Area, San Joaquin Valley and Southern California, all except for the Bay Area are expected to hit this region -- this level within the next week, and Bay Area just shortly there behind it.
They're really very concerned about this. This is not a game and this is why people really do just need to stay home -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: That's what the country is asking of them right now. Stephanie Elam, thanks very much.
Let's speak now to Dr. Celine Gounder. She is an infectious diseases expert and she's a member of the Biden transition team's Coronavirus Advisory Board.
Dr. Gounder, nice to have you back on the show.
DR. CELINE GOUNDER, MEMBER, BIDEN-HARRIS TRANSITION COVID ADVISORY BOARD: Great to be here, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So let's begin with the steps that the incoming administration wants to take here. First the step of simply asking people for 100 days to wear masks. How much of a difference from a public health perspective would 100 day -- it's not quite a mandate, it's more a national request, but how much different would that make in your view?
GOUNDER: Masks are probably the one, two and three most important things we can do right now to prevent transmission of the coronavirus. This is as close as we have to a vaccine. You know, with the vaccines they have still not received the FDA's Emergency Use Authorization and it will take time to manufacture enough doses for everybody and to distribute and get everybody vaccinated. So in the meantime this really is our most effective tool.
SCIUTTO: OK. As you know the sad fact is that mask wearing has been politicized in this country, you still have state leaders, for instance, you had the governor of Florida just a couple of days ago question whether masks make much of a difference here. How much less effective will this request to Americans to wear a mask for 100 days be if only half the country or so does it?
GOUNDER: Well, I think it's so unfortunate that masks have been politicized. That would be like politicizing the use of toilet paper. I mean, this is basic hygienic measure that is highly effective, it's cheap, and it doesn't shut down the economy. So if what you care about is being able to continue to go to work, have your paycheck, you know, all of those kinds of basic things, then you really should be working with us, working with your family, your community to get everybody to wear a mask.
SCIUTTO: OK. Beyond this request from the president-elect, how will the Biden strategy for approaching this pandemic be different? What will be the biggest differences from the Trump administration's approach?
GOUNDER: Well, I think, first of all, you're going to see much more emphasis on testing. The current administration has said we are testing too much and the fact is we are not testing nearly enough. So this is sort of like a big iceberg. You have the small tip of the iceberg above water which is the people who are getting sick, who are hospitalized, who are dying and that's a lot of people, but you also have this much larger parts of the iceberg below water which is all the people who are having mild cases or no symptoms with infections, but they're transmitting.
And you're never going to get a handle on the pandemic unless you can see those people who are transmitting, that part of the iceberg under water. And the only way to make what is currently invisible visible is through massively scaling up testing.
SCIUTTO: Understood. Now, as you know, there's an enormous amount of nervousness about shutdowns because people are aware of the economic effect. So far we're seeing in a state such as California discussions of regional shutdowns based on outbreaks. What will the Biden administration's approach be to shut down? I know that the president- elect himself has said he is not for a national shutdown, so how will it play out? Will the administration be calling for targeted shutdowns when there are outbreaks?
GOUNDER: Right. So shutdowns or lockdowns are really not on the table, at least not from the Biden-Harris team. We really view this as restrictions that you dial up or dial down based on the local epidemiology. So I mean, we can drill down to zip code level now, we know who is more likely to be transmitting, in what setting. So, for example, schools are less likely to be sources of transmission than are indoor dining and gyms.
So really targeting the places, the people where the transmission is a problem as opposed to a broad shutdown.
SCIUTTO: I'm sure that like myself with children in school, a lot of people watching right now have kids in school, perhaps most of them still doing remote learning. What will the Biden administration's approach be, its advice to school districts? Can they remain open? Will the emphasis be erring on the side of remaining open rather than shutting down?
GOUNDER: Yes, I think we know enough now to say that schools really should remain open unless there is extremely widespread community transmission. At the same time we need to be supporting schools so that they can do that safely, so that means providing funding for personal protective equipment, making sure that students are distanced, spread out and classroom density is reduced, and that we're doing what we can in terms of improving ventilation in those settings, which could just be as simple as opening windows and doors.
[09:10:16]
But we need to be doing all those things together while emphasizing keeping schools open.
SCIUTTO: OK. Final question, of course enormous anticipation of vaccines, we're likely to see approval, emergency approval in the next couple of weeks, but it's going to be months, as you say, until most of the population has it. A big challenge even when that happens is hesitancy. Right? I mean, you have a combination of fears of vaccines with folks who still don't grant that this is a reality, right, that COVID is a genuine threat. How do you, how does the Biden administration get over that?
GOUNDER: Well, I think step one is to allow the FDA to do its normal process of authorization here. So the scientists at the FDA and those advising the FDA they have thousands of pages of data to review before they meet to review Emergency Use Authorization for these vaccines. It is important that that process unfold as is normal, that no corners be cut, and I think that already goes a long way towards showing the American people that this is truly a safe and effective vaccine.
SCIUTTO: Vice president -- rather, President-elect Biden and Vice President-elect Harris were asked about taking the vaccine themselves last night by my colleague Jake Tapper. I want to play their answer and then get your thoughts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I would be happy to do that. When Dr. Fauci says we have a vaccine that is safe, that's the moment in which I will stand before the public and see that, look, part of what has to happen, Jake, and you know as well as I do, people have lost faith in the ability of the vaccine to work. Already the numbers are really staggeringly low, and it matters what a president and the vice president do.
And so I think that my three predecessors have set the model as to what should be done, saying once it's declared to be safe, and I think Barack said once Fauci says it's -- that's my measure, then obviously we take it. And it's important to communicate to the American people it's safe. It's safe to do this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: How important will that demonstration be both from the president-elect but also the three living former presidents?
GOUNDER: Well, I can't tell you how pleased I was to hear that announcement. There's actually a long history whether political leaders or cultural leaders get vaccinated on live television. You go back to the 1950s when teenagers didn't want to get vaccinated for polio and Elvis Presley went on "The Ed Sullivan Show" and got vaccinated on live television. So, you know, I think this is a really effective way to show to people that people they look up to feel that this is truly a safe and effective vaccine.
SCIUTTO: No question. We all need examples set.
Dr. Celine Gounder, thanks very much. I said three living presidents, of course it's four with Carter, Bush, Obama, Clinton.
Well, pressure growing on top Republicans to finally recognize Biden's win in this election. Who the president-elect has and has not heard from since the election? More from CNN's exclusive interview.
And while officials are scrambling to keep children in classrooms during the pandemic more and more students are dropping out of public school. We're going to have the report ahead, it's daunting.
Plus the U.S. recovery stalls as the country adds just 245,000 jobs in the final report of 2020. The pressure is building on Congress to act now on stimulus. There are some signs of hope. We'll see if it comes together. We'll have the latest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:15:00]
SCIUTTO: The Justice Department and the presidency, while Joe Biden is facing pressure on his pick for attorney general, he's making it clear that his power will stop there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: President Trump is reportedly considering a wave of preemptive pardons for his adult children and for Rudy Giuliani. He's also floated the idea in private conversations according to our reporting of possibly pardoning himself, which he insists he has the power to do, though, that has never been litigated. Does this concern you all these preemptive pardons?
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT, UNITED STATES: Well, it's -- it concerns me in terms of what kind of precedent it sets and how the rest of the world looks at us as a nation of laws and justice. But, look, our Justice Department is going to operate independently on those issues, that -- how to respond to any of that. I'm not going to be telling them what they have to do and don't have to do. I'm not going to be saying go prosecute A, B or C. I'm not going to be telling them -- that's not the role -- it's not my Justice Department.
It's the people's Justice Department. So the person or persons I pick to run that department are going to be people who are going to have the independent capacity to decide who gets prosecuted and who doesn't. Now, in terms of the pardons, you're not going to see in our administration that kind of approach to pardons, nor are you going to see in our administration the approach to making policy by tweets. You know, it's just going to be a totally different way in which we approach the justice system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Let's discuss now with CNN's Jessica Dean, she is in Delaware with the Biden transition this morning. I'm also joined by Ron Brownstein, senior editor for "The Atlantic". Good to have you both on. Jessica, I wonder if you could give us an update in particular on the selection for attorney general. He is under some pressure, perhaps, to pick someone of color for that role. I know Jeh Johnson has been under consideration. Do we have any update?
[09:20:00]
JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, we've -- Jim, we've seen a host of names floated, and you really have to think of it as so many pieces that have to be put together. And as you mentioned, yes, they are facing all of this pressure from these outside groups, from groups like the NAACP, from the congressional Hispanic caucus, from both Republicans in the Senate and also progressives up on Capitol Hill.
So, which is typical as we've talked about in one of these transitions. So they are trying to factor all of that in and make sure that they're making the right choice both for the person that Biden really wants in the position, but also how does that person fit into the larger puzzle of what the cabinet is going to look like, Jim --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
DEAN: And those conversations we know are ongoing.
SCIUTTO: Well, Ron, what Biden laid out last night was a markedly different view of the Justice Department than the way this president has operated. I mean, even his public statements here, I'm not reading tea leaves. I mean, he's upset at Bill Barr for not backing his false election claims right now. How important is re-establishing that separation?
RON BROWNSTEIN, SENIOR EDITOR, THE ATLANTIC: Well, he laid out a markedly different view, Jim, as you know on essentially everything from A to Z in the federal government. Look, a lot of the people who voted for Joe Biden voted for him precisely because they think Donald Trump has violated too many norms.
I mean, has broken too many of the small D, democratic rules of how American democracy and American government is supposed to work. And so there is a tendency -- I think there will be a strong tendency in the Biden administration to kind of go back to the status quo ante and restore some of the traditional separations and limits on direct presidential power. I think it's an interesting question, though, about how far you can go in putting the Genie back in the bottle, maybe not in Justice Department, but across a wide range of issues. Are Democrats essentially going to say, OK, Donald Trump, weaponized the federal government in all of these new ways. We're going to go back to kind of a neutral approach or are we in a new era of partisan warfare and which that's not possible.
SCIUTTO: Yes --
BROWNSTEIN: I guess we'll find out.
SCIUTTO: Jessica Dean, the job figures this morning showed just how central COVID will be to this new administration, but also the economic costs of COVID. And the president-elect was asked about this last night by Jake Tapper. I want to get his comments and get a sense from what you're hearing on your end.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Well, it's going to be a couple of things. Number one, it's going to be important we set out national standards and let their -- look, we met with governors, Democrat and Republican as well as 50 Democratic and Republican mayors. And they said they need guidance. They need guidance. And they're going to need a fair amount of money. It's one thing for us to talk about being able to get help out there, but it's not getting there.
We're having these hospital stays are overwhelming hospitals right now, there is a need for more financial assistance, there's more financial assistance needed as well when the vaccine comes forward. There's need for planning. And so now, the administration has been cooperating with us of late, letting them know what their plans are for the COVID virus, for how they're going to deliver on the vaccine, but there's not any help getting out there.
Look at all the businesses that are being hurt so badly. No money to help them. Come Christmas time, there's going to be millions of people who will see their unemployment run out. So there is a whole range of things that have to be done, and we have to ante up, I'm hoping and we've talked about this.
I'm hoping the Senate in this lame duck session will come up with some help to make sure we can keep people moving, keep people and their -- even if their jobs -- even if they have to close restaurants and bars, they're able to be able to maintain their business while they're out. And so, there's a whole lot of things that have to be done quickly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Jessica, there is news of some possible progress on the Hill towards an agreement here. Is the Biden transition in touch with folks on the Hill about this?
DEAN: Well, we know that Joe Biden has spoken with Nancy Pelosi, with Chuck Schumer, he's talked about that. He said last night that he's got faith in them to do the deep detailed negotiations.
He also talked about his friend and long-time ally, Senator Chris Coons of Delaware also on the Senate side working through those negotiations, but it's clear, Jim, he has used almost every public appearance he has had to publicly urge Congress to get something passed, to give relief to American workers, to give relief to businesses and families. They know that if more relief isn't passed before the end of the year, this gets even worse. They also --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
DEAN: Know that the economy is intrinsically intertwined with COVID, and they've got to get their arms around all of it. And without any congressional help, without a stimulus bill before the end of the year, this gets significantly worse what Biden will be inheriting. So, we hear him time and time again asking for this, asking for them. He says that he supports that bipartisan bill you were talking about, it's about $900 billion, that's beginning to make some waves there on the Hill.
But, again, he certainly wants to see something done by the end of the year. We do know that he's been talking to leadership.
[09:25:00]
SCIUTTO: Ron, we've all been experiencing some whiplash on these negotiations, right? Because in just a couple of days ago, it looked like it was dead in the water, now, you're hearing Republicans and Democrats endorse this compromised plan, about $900 billion, just $900 billion. You've covered Washington politics for some time. Do you see a change here? Do you think it's going to come?
BROWNSTEIN: I think it's tough. I still think it's tough. I think it could happen, and I think it is -- it is more of a possible mixed blessing for Biden than it might seem. I mean, certainly, for all the reasons Jessica said, it makes sense for him to want them to act now.
The need is overwhelming. I mean, there is -- there -- you know, there is a reality that with the virus surging that businesses need to close, it need to be tided over until we can get started again. But there is the risk at him that if Congress passes something now, Republicans, once he takes office will kind of unify behind the position of, well, we've done something and the vaccine is almost out there and there's no need to do anything more --
SCIUTTO: Right, that's right --
BROWNSTEIN: And it may be, Jim, in a closely-divided Congress, that a big coronavirus stimulus response plan, much like the 2009 stimulus bill that ultimately Biden administered for Obama, will be his best chance to advance a broad range of his domestic --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
BROWNSTEIN: Priorities. Things like clean energy, for example, and if they pass a bill this month, you do have to wonder whether Republicans will dig in even harder against something like that early next year.
SCIUTTO: Yes, remember that stimulus in 2008, it died before it was resurrected, right? And you know, listen, partisan politics didn't begin yesterday. Finally, Jessica, Jake asked Biden about whether privately he had gotten more recognition of the election results than we've heard publicly. Let's play his answer and I want to get your sense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: There have been more than several sitting Republican senators who privately call me and congratulate me. And I understand the situation they find themselves in, and until the election is clearly decided in the minds where the electoral college votes, they get put in a very tough position. And so, that's number one. Number two --
TAPPER: So you think the fever on that will break after the electoral college meets?
BIDEN: Well, at least a significant portion of leadership. I don't know that it's going to break across the board, I'm not saying that. It's not the same Senate -- I don't mean -- I don't mean in terms of their philosophy. It's not the same Senate personnel that I knew when I left the Senate.
TAPPER: You're still confident?
BIDEN: Yes -- no, look, it's going to be hard. I'm not suggesting it's going to be easy. It's going to be hard, but I'm confident that on the things that affect the national security and the fundamental economic necessity to keep people employed, to get people employed, to bring the economy back, there's plenty of room we can work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Jessica, that was a remarkably -- I don't know what the word -- well, certainly not petty response, right? Just saying I understand where they're coming from. What are you hearing when you start talk to members of the Biden transition about Republicans' reluctance to acknowledge the election?
DEAN: Right. Well, when you talk to them -- look, they really believe that -- look, they've had people calling Joe Biden privately, Republican senators he says have been reaching out to him privately. It was notable he didn't want to name names, he didn't want to put anybody in a tough spot because he is acknowledging kind of this weird position that they are in, and it's long -- it's been a long-standing mantra of his that he thinks that he can get back to some bipartisanship in the Senate.
Now, he's been accused of being naive for that, and he has also acknowledged that he might have to run into a few brick walls in trying to negotiate with them, Jim, but certainly, it will be interesting to see what happens after the electors meet and how that unfolds. SCIUTTO: I know. Because clearly the president is not going to give
up on his claims of a rigged election at that point, we'll see if Republicans --
DEAN: Right --
SCIUTTO: Differ with him then. Jessica Dean, Ron Brownstein, thanks very much to both of you.
DEAN: Yes --
BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: What is a big struggle right now for public schools in particular, keeping students in classrooms and coronavirus out?
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