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Dr. Anthony Fauci: U.S. Has Not Hit post-Thanksgiving Peak Of Cases; States Face Deadline Today To Submit COVID-19 Vaccine Plans; Poll: 60 Percent Of Americans Now Say They Would Get COVID-19 Vaccine; Source: White House Has Held Multiple Pardon Meetings Since The Election; U.S. Economy Down 9.8 Million Jobs Since February. Aired 12- 12:30p ET

Aired December 04, 2020 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Hello to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I am Dana Bash in Washington. A familiar sad truth this hour, the virus is winning. New tough numbers across the board, deaths, hospitalizations, jobs lost numbers that represent people, people who are suffering.

The pace of American hiring slowed in November, only 245,000 jobs added. The recovery is on pause and may soon rewind to the spring when millions of Americans were out of work in a snap.

The health numbers also tell a frightening story of a nation unable and a lame duck leader seemingly uninterested in slowing the spread. 217,000 new cases just shy of 2900 deaths, 100,600 hospitalized each number, a new record, a new pandemic worst.

In an interview this morning, Dr. Anthony Fauci warns the U.S. has not even yet hit the post Thanksgiving peak and that Christmas could deepen the hospital crisis already playing out across the country.

New data show that the virus is killing more Americans than anything else this week and new projections show the scale of American loss may nearly double by April 1st, 539,000 Americans. That is how many of us scientists say are expected to die by the spring.

In an exclusive CNN interview, the president-elect issued a new Coronavirus challenge to Americans, wear a mask for his first 100 days in office. And one expert projects a nationwide buy in could save 66,000 lives. 66,000 of our parents, our spouses, our siblings, our children we wouldn't have to mourn if that happens. Now Fauci says the president-elect is on the right path.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: He is saying hey, folks, trust me. Everybody for 100 days. Now, it might be that after that we still are going to need it, but he just wants everybody for a commitment for 100 days. And I discussed that with him, and I told him I thought that was a good idea. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Fauci today also said he will have a new job soon as the president-elect's Chief Medical Adviser. Now let's not forget, there is good news out there. COVID vaccines are on the way and expected to get FDA authorization in the coming weeks.

When it is available to you is a difficult and really complicated question. Should you take it? But that's an easy one. Asked last night if they would lead by example, the incoming president and vice president said yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Are you confident that if and when the FDA does give that approval, it will be safe and effective, and will you take it?

KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT: Of course, I will.

TAPPER: Do you plan to get vaccinated before inauguration day, and will you do it in public the way that Presidents Obama, Bush and Clinton have suggested they really would?

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: I would be happy to, once it is declared to be safe. And I think Barack said, once Fauci says, that's my measure. Then obviously we take it and it's important to communicate to the American people its safe, it's safe to do this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Let's get straight to CNN's Kristen Holmes. And Kristen, states face a deadline of today to submit where the first rounds of vaccines are going where they are. Do we have any idea how many states have their plan in place versus states that do not?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: When Dana, when it comes to where that first round of vaccines is going, most of the states, they are pretty set with that. They know that it's going to go to essential health care workers, and they determined who in their state is the most essential.

But when it comes to an overall plan of how this vaccine is going to roll out, there are still so many questions, and most of the states that we've talked to haven't finalized any sort of plan here and the important thing to note are that, this is completely changeable.

Everything here is in flux. They are not getting the information they say they need to come up with that plan from the federal government. So let's start with what we do know. We do have some dates here for that first phase of the vaccine, December 10th.

The FDA advisers will meet about the Pfizer vaccine, and December 15th is when those first shipments of the Pfizer vaccine will be delivered. December 17, they have that same meeting, but about the Moderna vaccine and then on December 22nd, the first shipments of the Moderna vaccine go out.

Now here is what is very important to note. We have talked to state after state who says that the amount of vaccine doses that they are getting in this first round is not enough to even cover all of their health care workers. In some states, even all of their essential health care workers, which are meaning that they have to rank those health care workers.

That should give you an idea of how long this is going to take before it gets to the American public. We also have teachers who some people are prioritizing as well as those in long-term care facilities.

So important thing to note here is that, we do not know when the general public will have access to it. And as for the December 15th date, people can't just show up on that date at the pharmacy and expect to have that vaccine, Dana.

[12:05:00]

BASH: Such important information and reporting, Kristen thank you so much for that. And joining me now is CNN Medical Analyst and Professor of Surgery and Medicine at George Washington University, Dr. Jonathan Reiner. Dr. Reiner, thank you so much for joining me. And let's start on what the president-elect told Jake Tapper, there's a mask challenge to the country. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Now I think my information, Jake, is in the first day I'm inaugurated to say, I'm going to ask the public for 100 days to mask. Just 100 days to mask. Not forever. 100 days. And I think we'll see a significant reduction if we occur that, and if that occurs with vaccinations and masking to drive down the numbers considerably, considerably.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So Dr. Reiner, he is going to ask, not mandate. Is that enough?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: That's probably all he really can do on the federal level, but it is a giant move forward. We've never really had that kind of consistent, clear, unambiguous ask from the President of the United States, asking all Americans to wear a mask.

And it makes me sad to think about how different our situation might have been if at the end of March, the outgoing president had said exactly that. All Americans unambiguously should mask up throughout - see the incoming president to just that.

BASH: Yes, it's a bully pulpit basic, certainly seems that way to me as well. So the IHME has new projections that say a quick vaccine rollout alone would save about 11,000 lives. If you target high risk groups in that rollout, that goes up to about 14,000 lives. But if you can get 95 percent of the population to wear a mask, combined with the vaccine rollout, would save 66,000 lives by April 1st. Can you help dissect this, and explain this, really help us

understand? Is that meaning that the vaccine just won't be available to enough people by April 1st and that's why masks are still important or is it something else about the efficacy of masks versus the vaccine?

REINER: Well, it's sort of both. So, we're very fortunate that both of these initial vaccines are extraordinarily effective, 95 percent effective in preventing illness. The Moderna vaccine appears to be 100 percent effective at least in the initial trial in preventing severe illness, which is really the name of the game. But the problem is that, we're going to have a very limited amounts of doses really the next couple of months.

So, in December, for instance, I think they're going to distribute maybe about 6.5 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine. And if the Moderna vaccine follows on a week after that, we will have another several million more that's just a fraction. Remember, we need two doses per person. So, it's going to take quite a while to vaccinate significant parts of the country.

And we need to get about 70 to 80 percent up take on the vaccine to achieve herd immunity. So, until we get that, and that's going to take months, the way we have sort of temporary immunity is by wearing a mask. That's your vaccine substitute until you get vaccinated. And that's what I'm telling my patients.

So, the vaccine will protect you long term, a mask protects you in the near term. So let's do that and once we move beyond about 70 percent of the population vaccinated, we'll see a dramatic dip in new infections.

BASH: I want you to quickly listen to what the Pfizer CEO said last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the question Albert of even though I've had the protection, is I still able to transmit it to other people?

ALBERT BOURLA, CEO, PFIZER: I think this is something that needs to be examined; we are not certain about that right now with what we know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So you said right now, a mask is kind of a vaccine substitute. But it's a critical question it means uncertainty what the Pfizer CEO just said for Americans and how they should act in their everyday lives even after they're vaccinated?

REINER: Well, I think it's pretty clear. I think after you're vaccinated, you should continue to wear a mask. You should continue to wear a mask until we are at a point in this country where it really appears that we've broken the back of this virus and I think that's going to be into next fall. We're going to be wearing masks into next fall, and we can do that.

We'll get data to understand whether these vaccines truly prevent infection, which is a different story than preventing illness, right now to check life in the United States, preventing infection is really the key - preventing illness is really the key.

[12:10:00]

BASH: Yes, of course. So, my takeaway is stock up for your holiday gifts on masks, because we're going to be wearing them for a while. Dr. Jonathan Reiner thank you so much for that. And a programming note, Dr. Anthony Fauci will join Anderson Cooper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta to answer your questions about Coronavirus vaccines Coronavirus Town Hall, the vaccines is tonight at 9:00 pm.

And up next, we're going to dig into CNN's exclusive interview with President-Elect Joe Biden and Vice President-Elect Kamala Harris whose husband gets an unprecedented title.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Is he the second gentleman, is he the second dude? What should we be calling him?

HARRIS: Well, I think the term has evolved into the second gentleman.

TAPPER: The second gentleman?

HARRIS: Yes. Yes.

TAPPER: OK. One second dude, but I will defer ---

HARRIS: I think some of his friends are inclined to say that.

TAPPER: But you'll call him the second gentleman?

HARRIS: No, I'll call him honey.

TAPPER: You'll call him honey, OK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

BASH: In public, few GOP Senators have acknowledged Biden as the President-Elect, but Biden says in private it's a different story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Why have you not yet spoken with McConnell and how can you be optimistic about working with a group of individuals who have not even yet acknowledged that you're the President-elect?

BIDEN: I say this tactful.

TAPPER: You don't have to be tactful. BIDEN: No, I do, because I don't want it. But there have been more

than several sitting Republican Senators who privately called me and congratulated me, and I understand the situation they find themselves in. And until the election is clearly decided in the minds where the Electoral College votes, they get put in a very tough position, and so that's number one. Number two--

TAPPER: So you think the fever on that will break after the Electoral College meets?

BIDEN: Well, the least significant portion of the leadership. I don't know that it is going to break across the board.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Here with me to discuss is, my friend and colleague Gloria Borger. Hi, Gloria.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Dana.

BASH: So do you think and I know you always do reporting on this, do you think that more Republican Senators are going to begin to speak out maybe finally, I don't know somebody in leadership other than Liz Cheney?

BORGER: Yes, finally acknowledging the sky is blue when the sky has been blue for quite some time, yes, I think they will after December 14th when the electors meet. I do want to point out though, Dana, that I think that the Vice President was or President-Elect, Joe Biden, was incredibly gracious there when he was saying I understand the position they are in.

BASH: Yep.

BORGER: And very restrained and it gives you a little bit of insight into who he is, because as a negotiator, Biden is pretty well known for saying to people I understand where you're coming from. And I think that's what he was saying out loud to Jake yesterday, and I think that's the way he operates.

BASH: Yes.

BORGER: And it was gracious and restrained.

BASH: You're so right. Legislating is an art and one of the first things you need to know is how to figure out what is going to mess up the person on the other side of the table with their base and what isn't and this is a great example. It's such a good point. So Jake also asked Biden if he would like Donald Trump to attend his inauguration. Here's what the president-elect said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: President Trump has not said if he's going to attend your inauguration yet. Do you think it's important that he is there? You're laughing. BIDEN: I think it would, important only in one sense, not in a

personal sense, important in the sense that we are able to demonstrate at the end of this chaos that he's created that there is peaceful transfer of power with the competing parties standing there shaking hands and moving on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I mean, you had two people there, looked like Vice President- Elect Harris was like biting her lip, trying not to laugh. It's obviously not a laughing matter, he was trying to make that point, that this is about the perception of America historically and around the world, but what did you make of it?

BORGER: Well again, you know, we both covered Joe Biden. This is the guy who before he became president-elect often shot from the hip and would give you a quick retort on this, like I don't really care whether he comes or not, he's got a seat, if he occupies it fine, if he doesn't fine. But it's clear to me that he has talked about this with his staff about the appropriate answer to give, because we all know that there's no love lost between these two men.

And his answer was the right answer, if there is a right answer, which is it matters a lot to the rest of the world. It matters about how America handles its transfer of power. I think the question is how will Donald Trump handle this, because he's going to be thinking not about how it matters to the rest of the world, he's going to be thinking about how it matters to his base?

BASH: Absolutely.

BORGER: The people he wants to keep happy.

BASH: Always.

BORGER: Yes.

BASH: So, Gloria, I'm sure you heard the president-elect was asked by Jake about the reporting that the president is considering pardons for himself, members of his family, and what Biden said is that he is just worried about the precedent. He said how it looks to the rest of the world.

But he said very clearly that his Justice Department would be independent. He wouldn't tell the Justice Department how to act and react and I know that you have some new reporting with Pamela Brown about what is going on inside the current White House on this?

[12:20:00]

BORGER: Right. Well, the White House Counsel's office has been leading multiple meetings about this question of pardons and preemptive pardons and making their list and checking it twice who should be on it? Who should be off of it?

One thing that Pamela and I have reported in addition to all of the White House reporting on all of this is that, one name that's clearly being considered is Jared Kushner's father, Charles, who was serving prison time at one point for tax evasion, among other things.

We're also told that Jared has not raised that with the president, but that the president knows of course that that is what he would like. And some of the groups that Jared worked with on criminal justice reform have also raised that as a possibility. So whether it will happen or not, we don't have any idea, but it's interesting that that is a name that's circulating.

BASH: Conflicts of interest to be damned, I guess.

BORGER: Yes.

BASH: Well, that's not a new story. Gloria, thank you so much for that reporting.

BORGER: Sure, thanks Dana.

BASH: And it's great to see you.

BORGER: See you downstairs.

BASH: OK. Thanks, Glo. Up next, hiring in the U.S. slows as congress looks like it's getting closer to a deal to provide relief for millions of Americans. We'll see how real those negotiations are?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:00]

BASH: New employment numbers out today show the U.S. added 245,000 jobs in November, only about half what economists expected, but we saw a slight dip in the unemployment rate, down to 6.7 percent. Now these new numbers come as pandemic unemployment benefits are set to expire just after Christmas unless congress acts fast.

President-Elect Biden put out a statement moments ago on the jobs report calling it grim. He will have remarks later today. But now I want to get straight to CNN's Christine Romans who can breakdown these numbers like no one else can. So Christine, what do they tell us?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: They tell us that the recovery from the awful job loss at the beginning of the pandemic is slowing. When you look at the trajectory here, this is not the v shaped recovery that so many had been hoping for. I made this just for you, Dana, so you can see.

BASH: Thank you.

ROMANS: Look at how many jobs we've lost from February to April 22 million.

BASH: Wow!

ROMANS: And then we've color coded each of the months coming back. You can see we are in a deep jobs hole, still down 9.8 million jobs. All that 20 million people are getting some sort of jobless benefit in this country right now, and that's going to start running out.

Now the jobless rate did fall to 6.7 percent and I have to say the worst fears of many of us about what the jobless rate would do over the summer have not been met, right? So, you got a jobless rate that is coming back down, super important. But behind those numbers, Dana, is the why. And think of it, 400,000 people dropped out of the labor market in the last month.

And over the past five, six months it's like 4 million people, and they're mostly women and baby boomers. Why is that? Well, kids aren't in school, family members need to be taken care of for health reasons. This is really kind of a scary situation in terms of the recovery ahead, because you need those workers and their productivity to really heal. So, behind the numbers, that's sort of what we're seeing here.

BASH: And Christine, that is the story that we cannot tell often and loudly enough, that so much of those numbers is because of women who decided to, had to quit their jobs because their kids are at home, learning from home, or they have elderly parents or relatives.

ROMANS: And we're still in the thick of it here. We're still in the thick of it. And I hope that congress is looking at these numbers, and not saying, the jobless rate is 6.7 percent as well, 8 percentage points below where it was at the worst that's true. But we're staring into the teeth of the worst of this virus. These numbers could be negative next month.

BASH: Christine Romans, thank you so much. I appreciate that. And speaking of congress, after months of stalemate, Coronavirus relief negotiations are reignited on Capitol Hill, thanks to a bipartisan group of lawmakers putting together a stimulus framework.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell spoke for the first time yesterday since the November 3rd election. McConnell said the call was "A good conversation." And a short time ago, Speaker Pelosi said the bipartisan framework offers a path forward with Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): It's a good product, it's not everything we want, don't get me wrong. I don't want the Republicans to think that this is a dream come true, it is not, but it is a path forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: CNN's Lauren Fox is on Capitol Hill. Lauren, I can't even imagine how many steps you've put in over the past week chasing around these lawmakers who finally decided to talk to one another again on something that is so critical to Americans right now. Where do the stimulus talks stand at this time?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, what a difference a week makes, Dana. In these negotiations when we started, no one was really talking in the beginning of the week when it came to leadership talks. Now we of course have this bipartisan framework. And what all eyes are on Capitol Hill right now is whether or not they can actually put pen to paper?

Remember, its one idea to have a framework and a top line number that says OK, we all agree we're going to spend $908 billion. We all agree in a small business program, another round of the Paycheck Protection Program.