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New Wave of Coronavirus Cases Leading to Increased Deaths in U.S.; Regions in California Instituting Lockdowns to Reduce Coronavirus Spread; Tenants Across U.S. Facing Eviction Due to Job Loss and Economic Slowdown Related to Coronavirus Spread; President Trump To Campaign in Georgia for Senate Candidates in Runoff Elections; Barack Obama and Joe Biden Campaign in Georgia for Senate Candidates in Runoff Elections. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired December 05, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:24]

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Vaccines, they are the light at the end of a dark coronavirus tunnel. We're going to tell you what it's going to take to get there.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, President Trump goes down to Georgia today, a state that's on the minds of Republicans, hoping he'll help, not hurt, their Senate hopes.

PAUL: And the challenge to get kids back in classrooms and to keep them there safely. Former President Obama's education secretary schools us on how we can get it done.

Good morning to you on this Saturday. It is December 5th. I'm Christi Paul. Good to see you, Marty.

SAVIDGE: It's good to see you, too, Christi, and good to see all of you. And I'm Martin Savidge in for Victor Blackwell. And you are in the CNN Newsroom.

PAUL: Always good to have you here.

So President Trump is rallying in Georgia in person today. This is a day after the state reported a record number of new coronavirus cases.

SAVIDGE: The mayor of Los Angeles says that his city is up against the greatest threat to life they have ever faced. The reality is, the whole country is in deep crisis. On average, over the last week, one American has died from coronavirus every 43 seconds.

PAUL: And as CNN's Alison Kosik reports, more people died from COVID- 19 in the U.S. this week than anything else -- heart disease, lung cancer, or even stroke.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As a brutal second wave strikes, coronavirus becomes the leading cause of death in America -- 14,000 deaths have been reported since Thanksgiving. In a CNN town hall Friday, Dr. Anthony fauci said we are headed for a post-holiday surge.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The event usually is followed by two to three weeks later, you see the increase in cases, which puts it right at the cusp before the Christmas holiday, where you're going to have more travel and more congregating.

KOSIK: Numbers broke records around the country this week. Johns Hopkins reported almost 228,000 cases and more than 2,600 deaths Friday alone. And experts warn the worst is coming.

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: What lies ahead for the next few months is actually our worst-case scenario in terms of overwhelmed hospitals, in terms of the death count.

KOSIK: The University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation projects over 260,000 more people could die by spring. The CDC tweeted Friday hospitalization rates are at an all-time high, reiterating to the public, wear a mask, wash your hands, avoid crowds. New CDC guidelines also urge postponing travel, and in some circumstances wearing a mask at home.

In California, COVID cases shatter hospitalization and ICU records, hitting a single day high of more than 22,000 cases, almost 10,000 hospitalized, and over 2,200 in ICU. Governor Gavin Newsom imposes emergency measures with a regional shutdown order of five Bay Area counties, covering more than 5.8 million people. The order will require bars, theatres, and salons to close while retail must operate at 20 percent capacity. Masks will be mandatory.

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): The bottom line is if we don't act now, our hospital system will be overwhelmed. If we don't act now, we'll continue to see a death rate climb, more lives lost.

KOSIK: Orders go into effect this weekend. Statewide orders are expected soon.

New hope is on the horizon with pharmaceutical companies working to obtain FDA approval and states making vaccine distribution plans. But the public is urged to take immediate action.

FAUCI: If we as a country uniformly do the things that we know can mitigate against spread, those simple things alone, despite the enormity of the problem, can make a difference.

KOSIK: President-elect Biden said this week he will push major mitigation efforts when taking office.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm going to ask the public for 100 days to mask. Just 100 days to mask. Not forever, 100 days. And I think we'll see a significant reduction.

(END VIDEO TAPE) KOSIK (on camera): And now New York will be using hospitalizations to decide whether areas of the state should remain open or whether they should be closed. Governor Andrew Cuomo of New York, he's blaming this rise in COVID cases on what he calls living room spread. Not the mass gatherings that we've heard about during the pandemic.

[10:05:02]

He thinks it's because people are gathering in their homes with family and friends, and that is what he is saying is causing this latest surge in New York. Martin?

SAVIDGE: And there's potentially more of had ahead as the holidays come around. Alison Kosik, thank you very much for that.

Millions of Americans are holding out on the hope that the new year won't mean a new risk of losing their homes.

PAUL: There are so many people that are struggling just to pay bills during this pandemic. A CDC order is really their last defense against an eviction, and that shield is facing some legal challenges set to expire at the end of the year.

SAVIDGE: CNN's Natasha Chen is on this story for us. And Natasha, you followed one woman's struggle in an organization trying to help. What did you learn?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Martin and Christi, when I talked to tenants and housing advocates yesterday, there was one thing abundantly clear, that's the lack of clarity. They don't know what's to come as far as assistance for the unemployed. And with this order expiring, they also don't know what tenant protections there will be in the new year.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

CHEN: 2020 has been a year of firsts for Victoria Giddens, and none have been cause for celebration. In March, as the pandemic forced much of the economic closed, Giddens, who had just accepted a job at the rental car company at the airport, had the offer rescinded, a first for 30-years-old Giddens, who lives with her boyfriend and their two- years-old son.

VICTORIA GIDDENS, FACING EVICTION: We knew we had this two-year-old to take care of everything, so I was so depressed at the moment.

CHEN: Two incomes in January became one by March. Then as she struggled to find work and stay on top of some bills, another first, an eviction notice on her door telling her she had to be out by January 6th.

GIDDENS: I be stressed every day. I just try not to let it show.

CHEN: Especially not in front of her son, who can sense when something is wrong. This year was also her first time ever asking for financial assistance just to pay their past due rent. ESLENE RICHMOND-SHOCKLEY, FOUNDER, CARING FOR OTHERS: Where does this

put this client if we clear up the past due rent?

CHEN: We followed Giddens to see Eslene Richmond-Shockley, founder of the organization Caring for Others.

RICHMOND-SHOCKLEY: During COVID-19 era, you have seen the rules change so much towards the clients, and every day is a fight.

CHEN: The check for more than $4,400 came from donors she found in the last few days, preventing Giddens from being thrown out of her home, at least for now. For Shockley, who says her organization has run out of financial assistance funds, the issue strikes a raw nerve.

RICHMOND-SHOCKLEY: And I understand what it is to sleep at a Greyhound bus station on Christmas Eve night in Washington, D.C., when no one would open their doors for me. And I was a student, and I have to continue helping until the day I die.

CHEN: But even helping tenants with past due rent won't solve the problem of what's ahead. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a temporary order to halt evictions nationwide, but that expires at the end of the month. So Georgia Legal Services Susan Reif says housing attorneys are bracing for the first Monday in January.

SUSAN REIF, GEORGIA LEGAL SERVICES: I think every legal services housing attorney in Georgia has that date circled in red, because that is the day that the courts will open and landlords can go in and begin filing dispossessory for non-payment.

CHEN: The CDC would not answer our question about whether the order would be extended, citing ongoing litigation. And anything a new administration may do won't happen until President-elect Biden takes office in late January. I asked Reif what tenant protections there are in the meantime.

REIF: I have no good answer for you or for my clients who call with those issues, and it is a painful position to be in as a lawyer.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

CHEN (on camera): Reif told me that she compares this to the foreclosure crisis in that this time around, she says, there is far more adverse impact on low income folks and people of color compared to the foreclosure crisis that affected more people of all incomes. And in that case, foreclosures often take months to complete that process, and this time around evicting tenants can happen in days and weeks, a much faster and urgent problem, Christi.

PAUL: Natasha Chen, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

And later this hour, what lessons have we learned about the coronavirus in schools? We're asking President Obama's former education secretary, Arne Duncan, and we're going to get his reaction to the push to keep schools open in places like New York, let's say. The impact of remote learning on vulnerable students, I know you all have stories. We have that and much more with Arne Duncan in just a bit.

[10:10:00]

SAVIDGE: Hours from now, President Trump is heading to Valdosta, Georgia, to campaign for two Republican senators.

PAUL: Exactly one month from today Senators Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue are facing off against Democratic opponents Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff. This is a race that will determine the balance of power in the Senate, which is why it's so crucial.

SAVIDGE: The president's trip is worrying some Republicans. They fear he could do more harm than good after sowing doubt with baseless claims of election fraud. Some conservatives say they don't even want to vote. CNN's Sarah Westwood is at the White House for us, and Sarah, the president's rally will be, I believe it's his first since he lost the election. So what do we expect to hear from him today?

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, Martin, it's a big moment for President Trump today. He's had very few public appearances since his defeat, and this is his first political event, his first rally. It's a setting in which he tends to go off script, he tends to stray from the message, which is just one of many concerns for Georgia Republicans today. They want to hear President Trump focus on Senators Perdue and Loeffler, they want to hear him really promoting them in the runoff, and they don't want to hear any more of these claims, these baseless claims from President Trump of election fraud. There are growing concerns among Republican officials that the president is actually working against them in Georgia by convincing some of the voters they will need to turn out on January 5th for this runoff, that their ballots may not be handled securely.

In fact, Trump has been attacking the Georgia governor, the Georgia secretary of state, the very same people who will be overseeing this next election, and so there are major concerns that the president has some very counterproductive rhetoric heading into his appearance today.

Meanwhile, he is still refusing to acknowledge the results of the election, still refusing to concede the race, even as those around him are starting to acknowledge that there will be a Democrat in the White House come January. Vice President Mike Pence was campaigning in Georgia yesterday for those two senators, and he described them as potentially the last line of defense for Republicans, a potential acknowledgment that Trump may not be here next year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we need to send them back, because the Republican Senate majority could be the last line of defense, preserving all that we've done to defend this nation, revive our economy, and preserve the God-given liberties we hold dear.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WESTWOOD: Most members of the president's cabinet have not acknowledged that they will be out of a job come January, but we did hear something of an acknowledgment yesterday from CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield, speaking also in Georgia, saying that he may not be at the CDC next year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: They will continue to guide our nation's response to the pandemic after we're gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WESTWOOD: Now, the president's visit comes against the backdrop of rising coronavirus cases in Georgia. In fact, the state's largest newspaper this morning ran with a headline pointing to the record- breaking surge of COVID infections in Georgia. The president convening a large in-person gathering against that backdrop, Martin and Christi.

PAUL: Sarah Westwood, good to see you, thank you.

Former president Barack Obama has been campaigning for Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock in Georgia. We now know President-elect Joe Biden plans to campaign in the state as well.

SAVIDGE: CNN political reporter Rebecca Buck is following the story for us. Good morning to you, Rebecca.

REBECCA BUCK, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Good morning, Martin. Well, the full court press is in progress from Democrats when it comes to the Georgia Senate races, ballots being cast one month from now in those races. And this reflects the importance of these races not only to the Senate balance of power as we've all discussed, but really what that means practically is will President-elect Biden be able to enact any of his agenda over the next two years. And so that's what's at stake here. That's why we're seeing President Obama this week coming out, doing a virtual rally for Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff, the two Democrats running in Georgia. And Obama laid out the stakes here in this race. I want you to take a listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The special election in Georgia is going to determine ultimately the course of the Biden presidency.

You are now, once again, the center of our civic universe, because the special election in Georgia is going to determine ultimately the course of the Biden presidency and whether Joe Biden and Kamala Harris can deliver legislatively all the commitments they've made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BUCK: And that appearance by President Obama in the context of this race, campaigning for the Democrats who are going on be on the ballot, is of course about getting democratic voters or people who might be on the fence, but vote for Democrats, ultimately to the polls in this very unusual election.

[10:15:08]

When it comes to an election like this, a runoff election, it's all about turnout. Usually, voters are maybe not aware that it's happening. It's not like a general election, it doesn't get the same amount of attention necessarily. And so it's all about reminding people to vote and reminding them of what is at stake in this election.

One of the big questions for Democrats, though, we heard a little bit from Sarah about the challenges for Republicans when it comes to turnout. But for Democrats, Georgia is still a state where Republicans have historically an advantage. Even though Joe Biden was able to win in November at the presidential level, he was the first Democrat to do so since 1992 in Bill Clinton. This is a state where Republicans are very much entrenched, have an advantage.

And so for Democrats, it's really about trying to make lightning strike twice in this election. How can they get the same electorate out to vote? And another key question, how can they persuade some of these suburban voters who supported Joe Biden in November, some of them as a vote against President Donald Trump, how can they convince them that this race is also important for them to vote in with neither Joe Biden or Donald Trump on the ballot?

So the message from Democrats is essentially Joe Biden is on the ballot, it's his agenda at stake. That's why you're seeing Obama involved in this race. That's why Joe Biden has announced his plans to go down to Georgia at some point in the next month and campaign. So we'll be watching for that development. We don't have a date yet on his plan to campaign in Georgia, but it will be, of course, sometime in the next month. Christi and Martin?

SAVIDGE: Rebecca Buck, thank you very much for that. Appreciate it.

PAUL: Still ahead, it only has to be a piece of fabric, but it could be the thing that saves someone's life. We're speaking to an infectious disease expert to talk about how to stay safe even with a COVID vaccine that is on the way.

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[10:21:06]

SAVIDGE: New research has found that wearing a mask can reduce COVID- 19 infections by close to 50 percent. Experts looked at mandatory mask use in parts of Germany earlier this year. And, as Dr. Anthony Fauci says, public health guidance needs to remain in place even if a vaccine is on the way, with emergency use authorization expected to come later this month. He told CNN exactly how it would work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) FAUCI: What you have is you get some degree, not optimal, but some degree of immunity a couple of weeks after the first dose. That's not optimal. After the second dose, you get optimal immunity anywhere from seven to 10 days after the second dose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: For more on all of this, we are joined by Dr. Peter Hotez, Professor and Dean of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine. Thank you very much for joining us this morning.

DR. PETER HOTEZ, DEAN, NATIONAL SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE AT BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Thanks for having me.

SAVIDGE: It gets complicated in some of the language there as we talk about the science, and you heard terms like MRNA, et cetera. So if you could, could you just sort of put it into plain English for us, how this vaccine works?

HOTEZ: Yes, we tend to overcomplicate things sometimes by hearing about MRNA vaccines, adenovirus-based vaccines, particle vaccines. They all work by the same way. They all work by inducing a type of antibody in our system called virus neutralizing antibody. This is the antibody that binds to the outer part of the virus, called the spike protein, and prevents the virus from attaching to our tissues.

So we often get asked, which vaccine are you going to wait for, Doc. And the answer is don't wait, because they all work by the same way, inducing those virus-neutralizing antibodies, and you're not going to have a lot of choice in the beginning. Get what you can, get those virus neutralizing antibodies in your system.

The only thing we don't know is the length of protection, what we call durability of protection. Is this protective effect of the vaccines after you get those two doses, will it last three months, three years, 30 years? We don't have data on that because that's a new technology. But don't worry about it. Get the vaccine, and if later on it turns out that the length of protection is not very long, we can get a third dose of the vaccine or possibly boost it with another vaccine. Right now, focus on saving your life, because these vaccines will keep you out of the hospital and the ICU.

SAVIDGE: How many people actually need to get the vaccine for it to be effective for us in society as a whole?

HOTEZ: Well, we did some studies with Sydney University of New York to model this, and we found about 70 to 80 percent of the population needs to be vaccinated. So it's a pretty high bar. And also, we need to know that these vaccines stop transmission of the virus. Remember, there's two things you want a vaccine to do. One, prevent you from going to the hospital and the ICU, and the data so far shows that the vaccines will do that. That's the most important. But then that it also stops any type of virus shedding if you are exposed, and that we don't know yet. So studies are being done.

But assuming that's the case, we know we need to vaccinate about 70 to 80 percent of the population, and that means eventually we're going to have to begin vaccinating adolescents and children, so studies are under way for that. And we're going to have to have a communications plan, because the Operation Warp Speed program has been terrific in terms of the scientific rigor and the integrity of the clinical trials, but there really hasn't been a communication strategy. It's been left to the pharmacy CEOs through press releases, and that's not been adequate. They've fumbled a lot at that. So we need a communications strategy.

And finally, we're going to have to do something about the disinformation. The Internet is flooded with anti-vaccine messages from anti-vaccine groups in the U.S. and disinformation coming from Russia. So that's another piece that's going to have to be addressed. And so far, no one is talking about that so far.

SAVIDGE: I want to get back to how we started, actually, talking about this new study that was done on masks and found, at least in Germany, when they were mandated, they were almost 50 percent effective.

[10:25:03]

It's now being suggested by the CDC that people should wear the mask even in their own home when they're amongst close family. How realistic is that?

HOTEZ: Well, certainly when you're out in public, it doesn't matter if you're outdoors or indoors, wear a mask, because there's a lot of virus circulating around out there. And even in my neighborhood in Houston, Texas, I see a lot of people still not wearing masks, even sitting in outdoor cafes, et cetera. We're going to have to fix that.

And secondly, if you're in the home and you have individuals who have not been social distancing, and out and about in the public, it's good if they could wear masks as well. I know that's a much tougher ask, but that's -- with the level of virus we've got circulating right now, we really have no choice.

The only two things we can do right now to save lives until the vaccines come is, one, wear face masks as much as possible, and second, when we're starting to see surges on our intensive care units, we know that's when hospital staff gets overwhelmed and the mortality rate skyrockets. So we've got to implement aggressive social distancing at times when there's a hospital surge being threatened.

SAVIDGE: We only have about 30 seconds left, but I was struck by the fact that even if you get the vaccine, you still should wear a mask, right?

HOTEZ: Well, certainly until we achieve a high level of what's called herd immunity among the population, there's still going to be a lot of virus circulating. And so people still could be shedding virus, so that's absolutely right. And, again, that communication piece needs to be out there, that things will get better, people will still need facemasks and social distancing for a period of time. But with every passing month, as more and more of the U.S. population gets vaccinated, things will be better. So February will be better than January, and March will be better than February, and April will be better than March, and so forth. So look for this gradual evolution of life returning in a more interesting way over the coming year next year.

SAVIDGE: Absolutely. We look forward to that. Dr. Peter Hotez, thank you very much for being with us this morning.

HOTEZ: Thanks so much.

PAUL: Well, a month after Joe Biden's election win over President Trump, there's a staggering number of Republicans who still are not ready to acknowledge that. The "Washington Post" reporting nearly 90 percent of all Republicans serving in Congress refuse to say who they believe won the election. We've got our partisan guest standing by to discuss that, also, the crucial runoff elections in Georgia. That's when we come back. Stay close.

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[10:32:00]

PAUL: The balance of power in the Senate hangs on two runoff elections taking place in Georgia exactly one month from today. Republican senators Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue facing off against Democratic opponents Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff.

SAVIDGE: Already millions of dollars have been poured into the peach state to the candidates and the outside groups have spent more than $320 million, actually, on TV and radio advertising, and for good reason. Some Republicans are worried that the president's baseless attacks on the election will keep conservatives from voting. Several voters in Georgia say that they believe the president was cheated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You believe in the results, in what happened here in Georgia?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I really don't.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who do you think won in November?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I honestly think Trump did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who do you think won the election in your viewpoint? Trump?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Trump did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know 100 percent what's going on, or how they count the votes or whatever. So it's confusing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: Let's talk about the Georgia race and all things politics. Republican strategist Scott Jennings and former D.C. Democratic Party chairman A. Scott Bolden. Gentlemen, good to see you this morning.

A. SCOTT BOLDEN, FORMER D.C. DEMOCRATIC PARTY CHAIRMAN: Good morning.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

PAUL: Good morning. Before we get to Georgia, Scott Jennings, I'm going to go with Scott and A. Scott, just so we know.

BOLDEN: You've got it.

PAUL: The "Washington Post" has a story this morning that 222 congressional Republicans will not say that President-elect Joe Biden has won the election, which leaves just 25 who will. Tell me something, Scott, how many of these Republicans really believe that the election was filled with fraud, and how many may just be trying to stay under the radar and out of Trump's target zone?

JENNINGS: The latter is far more likely, I think. The Electoral College, by the way, is going to meet here pretty soon, and then eventually the Congress has to accept those results. So all of these people will wind up on the record here at some point.

But I think what you said there about them trying to stay under the radar is what they're trying to do, because obviously the president is out there taking aim at people who appear to accept the election results, which by the way, Joe Biden won the election. And he doesn't like it, and people who say otherwise or don't do what he wants them to do, he is attacking viciously. Ask Brian Kemp or Governor DeWine in Ohio, or Governor Ducey out in Arizona. So I think those folks that are in Congress, a lot of them aren't all that well known, and they would prefer not to become well known over this issue.

PAUL: Well known in Trump circles. So if Republicans are pushing back this hard or just keeping quiet to this point, A. Scott, what is Biden's strategy to reach them? Do you think he can once he takes office?

[10:35:00]

BOLDEN: Well, after December 14th, and certainly after January 20th, I think Joe Biden will continue to reach across the aisle because he's going to need their support. I don't think it matters politically or literally whether they declare him the winner publicly one way or the other. They're going to come along as democracy moves along, and that means on January 20th Joe Biden will be sworn in, whether Trump attends that ceremony or not. So I think it will be just fine.

This split House, or even if the Dems run the whole, House, Senate and White House, we're going to need Republican support to move this country forward given the damage that the Trump administration has done. And so we're going to have to have everybody onboard.

PAUL: OK, so let's move to the Georgia runoff now. This is the first rally that President Trump is holding since the election, and I know there are a lot of questions about what he's going to say. And as we understand it, our reporting is that he was reluctant to come to Georgia, Scott, that he actually is doing so grudgingly. So how much damage at the end of the day could he do if he decides to tout his own personal grievances as opposed to singing the praises of these senators?

JENNINGS: It is a high risk, high reward. Most Republicans who are involved in the races down there I've talked to think that he could be an overall net positive, because if he goes and tells his voters -- and by the way, there are a lot of people out there who are loyal to him. If he says these are my friends, they've been my supporters, they've stood by me and I need you to stand by them, if he delivers that core message, much in the way Mike Pence did in his visits to Georgia, that is a net positive.

If he, however, spends most of his speech attacking Brian Kemp or railing against rigged elections or saying it doesn't really matter whether you vote, which would, by the way, be a catastrophic message for him to deliver, then that would be a net negative. Overall, what the Republicans need is for Trump's voters to come along and for those suburban voters who chose Joe Biden to revert back to being Republican voters who are OK with Perdue and Loeffler, but just weren't OK with Trump. That's really the formula for winning here.

But one more thing, I don't think strategists in either party know exactly who is going to vote. I think voter turnout predictions here, people are really unsure about what's going to happen, which makes, I think, the polling and a lot of the strategy that goes into this, you're really sort of flying blind in some ways.

PAUL: Scott, you brought up exactly what I want to ask you, A. Scott about. There is no guarantee that people who voted for Biden in the general will support a Biden agenda. They may welcome just for the balance of power's sake a vote on the Republican side for one of these senators. How do you entice the Democrats to get out and vote for Democrats?

BOLDEN: It's the same reason you voted for Biden because of what COVID has done to our economy and to the health of this country and individuals, health care and building a better economy, not necessarily a new economy. But you've got to also remember this, the better question is, what Republicans are going to come vote? Even if they voted for Biden. The Republican Party at the national level and at the local level in Georgia is in a hot mess, if you will. You have leading Republicans telling Republicans not to vote because it's a rigged election. Donald Trump is going to come down, he's not disciplined enough to say these are my friends and vote. He'll say these are my friends and vote, but it was a rigged election, I really won the election, and this election, state and local election officials, Republicans, don't know what they're doing, and he will attack them because he's not disciplined not to.

That mixed message is going to limit the number of Republicans, including those who voted for Biden, to come out. If that happens, then the Dems win both of those seats, and they'll control all three houses. That's why this trip by Trump is so very dangerous. If he's on script, he'll say what he's supposed to say. But at these rallies he goes off script and it's all about Donald Trump, it's not about the national Republican Party or these two senators. We'll have to watch and see which he chooses.

PAUL: I'm kind of wondering if anybody wrote a script for this today.

(LAUGHTER)

PAUL: I don't know what it's going to be. We'll talk about it, I'm sure, tomorrow. Scott Jennings, A. Scott Bolden, always appreciate having both of you on. Thank you, gentlemen.

BOLDEN: Thank you.

JENNINGS: Thank you.

SAVIDGE: It's a big struggle right now for public schools to keep students in the classroom and how to keep COVID-19 out at the same time. Next, we'll discuss the best approach to reopening, and if schools are doing it safely.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:43:40]

SAVIDGE: -- city's public school system, the nation's largest, will reopen for in person learning for elementary school kids next week, despite the surge of COVID cases in the state.

PAUL: Officials there say safely opening schools is the right decision. Other districts across the country are being forced to return to remote learning, though. Currently there's no national strategy for school re-openings, so it leaves a lot of people wondering what is the best approach here. With us now, former secretary of education under President Obama, Arne Duncan. Secretary Duncan, we appreciate you being here. Thank you so much.

ARNE DUNCAN, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF EDUCATION UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Good morning. Thanks for having me.

PAUL: Good morning to you, too. We last talked to you back in August. At the time there was 4.9 million cases in the U.S. and 161,000 deaths, and at that time you said slow and steady wins the race. Assess where we are now and what has to happen from this point forward, because there are a lot of parents out there who are genuinely worried about their kids' mental and emotional health because of virtual schooling.

DUNCAN: Tragically, as you guys know so well, COVID continues to win and accelerate, and we continue to lose because we lack discipline, because we chose to open bars and not close bars and open schools instead. So in 47 of our states now, COVID is spiking and I'm afraid will continue to spike. So it's an extraordinarily difficult time.

[10:45:04]

Where it is safe in local communities to open with some kids, with younger kids, with the most vulnerable kids, we should absolutely try and do it. I'll stick to what I said before. It has to be slow and steady. The fact that we're in such a difficult position for children, for parents, and for teachers just absolutely breaks my heart. We did not have to be here, but here's where we are today, and we have to figure out where we go as we move forward in a smart, safe, educational way, but also, first and foremost, children and teachers' health and safety.

SAVIDGE: And so with that in mind, what do you think about the way that New York City is going about getting students back into the classroom again?

DUNCAN: I think it's really smart. We will learn as we go. It is so important that we get those younger kids back in. Zooming all day is not good for anybody, but particularly for our youngest kids and for our most vulnerable kids. Schools have not proven so far to be super- spreaders, and if things don't work out, they're going to have to shut down. I think, honestly, not just for the county or for the school year, we will see school districts try and open and close back down and try and open and close back down. It's just that complicated and that hard. But they are trying to do it the right way, they are trying to do it thoughtfully. And districts around the country can learn both in where they succeed and where they struggle.

PAUL: So let me ask you about this when we talk about struggling. There are failure rates in math and English that jumped sixfold in Montgomery County, Maryland. I've listened to parents who say their kids are struggling, they're shutting down, and they're not learning. So with that said, now that there are some school districts who are nine months into virtual learning at this point, kids who are falling behind, how do we get them back on track? What is the reality? Are some of these kids going to have to repeat grades?

DUNCAN: That's such an important question, Christi, and let me actually make the problem worse, unfortunately, but I always have to be honest. Yes, we have lots and lots of kids falling behind. But those are actually the kids we know about that are in school. We have a couple million children here in America who never returned to school when COVID hit in March.

And so we have to do a couple of things immediately, not wait for the new administration, not waiting for the new year. First, we have to go find all those kids who have not returned to school. We have to find them, we have to knock on doors, we have to figure out what's going on, how do we get them devices, how do we get them access to Wi-Fi, whatever it might be, we just have to do that with a huge sense of urgency. And we have to check not just where they are academically, where we know that's going to be a bad situation, but where are they in terms of their mental and emotional health, where are they in terms of their food insecurity. The levels of hunger in this country are staggering right now. I've never seen anything like it. So that's where we have to start.

To answer your question directly, Christi, I've been advocating for a while now for a national tutoring program. We know that high intensity tutoring can be physically in person, it can be virtually, it can be hybrid. High intensity tutoring is the best thing we can do to help those kids that are six months, nine months, maybe a year behind catch up. We cannot wait, we cannot lose a generation. If kids have to repeat a grade, we can cross that bridge when we get there, but that should not be the goal now. The goals now should be to accelerate children, and by spring, by summer, by next fall have them caught up or close to that as is possible.

SAVIDGE: Real quick, Mr. Secretary, schools are run hyper locally, yet there's been a lack of leadership on a national level. Do you think the lack of national leadership has impacted the local school level?

DUNCAN: It's been beyond devastating, and it's heartbreaking. I can't tell you, honestly, how furious I am. The loss of life here in America is staggering, the trauma is staggering, the loss in terms of academics that we've talked about, the fear and trauma that kids are living with, the lack of leadership at the federal level has had just a devastating, devastating impact on kids and families and teachers and education around the country. We should not be here. We didn't have to be here. Other countries aren't here. And we're going to have to do everything we can together to get to a better place for everybody, kids, teachers, parents, families, at fast as is humanly possible. They deserve no less.

PAUL: We only have 10 seconds, but I want to know, Secretary Duncan, are you open to serving as secretary of education again?

DUNCAN: No, no, I've had my chance. I loved every minute of it, but it's somebody else's turn. But I'll do everything I can to continue to support President-elect Biden and his team. So happy he is the incoming president.

PAUL: Arne Duncan, we appreciate your time. We appreciate your insights so much. Thank you.

DUNCAN: Thank you. Have a good day now.

PAUL: You as well. We'll be right back.

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[10:54:08]

PAUL: So we leave you this hour with this. On average over the last week, roughly one American has died of COVID-19 every 43 seconds. Please just stop for a moment and think about that -- 43 seconds. Right now in the U.S. somebody is losing their mother or their father or their sibling or their friend or their spouse or someone they love. And we're going to do something that really makes us very uncomfortable in the TV world. We're going to go silent for 43 seconds so we can all really grasp what that means, what it means to the people who will have lost someone 43 seconds from now.

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