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Trump Attorney Rudy Giuliani Has Tested Positive For Coronavirus; California Restaurant Owner Blasts New Shutdowns In Viral Video; All Eyes On Georgia; CDC States Schools Are Safe To Return; CNN Heroes. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired December 06, 2020 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:22]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. We begin with breaking news.

The president revealing just moments ago his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, has coronavirus. The president tweeting in part, "Rudy Giuliani, by the far the greatest mayor in the history of NYC, has tested positive. Get better soon, Rudy. We will carry on."

And CNN has reached out to Giuliani for comment. We'll bring that to you when we get it.

Let's in the meantime go to CNN's Jeremy Diamond at the White House.

Jeremy, remind us, when was the last time we saw Giuliani out in public?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Mayor Giuliani was on Thursday at the Georgia state capitol in Atlanta, which was just one of the latest hearings that Mayor Giuliani has attended to try and overturn the results of this election and so points to voter fraud allegations that really have no credibility or basis in reality. Certainly as far as widespread voter fraud.

And you can see on your screen right now that Mayor Giuliani was not taking the kinds of precautions that millions of Americans have come to know as part of their daily lives during this coronavirus pandemic, walking around without a mask. He takes -- he is seen taking pictures with folks, shaking hands, hugging. These are all things of course that we know the CDC recommends against.

You can see him right there hugging somebody in the Georgia state capitol. And so obviously, anybody can get coronavirus, even those who take precautions can come down with this virus. But when you act recklessly, you have a much higher chance of getting -- of contracting this virus. And that is exactly what Mayor Giuliani has done in recent weeks.

In just the last week he has been to three different states. He was in Phoenix, Arizona, on Monday. He followed that up with a visit to the Michigan state capitol, and then on Thursday he was in Atlanta, Georgia, as you can see on your screen there, next to Bernie Kerik, a former New York City police commissioner.

So, again, Mayor Giuliani also did not follow quarantine guidelines previously. He's had several aides who have tested positive. And so frankly it's a surprise that Mayor Giuliani hadn't contracted this virus up until now, given that he was in close contact with several people who had tested positive, including his son, Andrew Giuliani, who tested positive last month, of course Epstein and other member of the president's legal team, and an aide to Mayor Giuliani who tested positive at the end of last month.

Mayor Giuliani, we should note, did not follow the CDC quarantine guidelines. He did not stay at home. Instead he continued to attend these events where you often saw not only was Mayor Giuliani not wearing masks but most of the people in these rooms, indoor spaces, were not wearing masks. And so again, logic. You know, if you engage in this kind of behavior, you increase your likelihood to get this.

We should note that Mayor Giuliani is 70-plus years old. He's obviously just given his age at a higher risk for more serious symptoms and complications of this coronavirus. We certainly don't wish that he gets any of those serious complications. We wish him a speedy recovery. But again, it just has to be noted that the type of behavior that you engage in does change your risk level for getting this virus.

CABRERA: I'm looking at these images, Jeremy, I have to think contact tracing is going to be a nightmare with how many people he was in close contact with, not wearing masks in these indoor spaces. And as you point out, he's 76 years old. God bless him.

Do we know if he's been to the White House recently and who else may have been exposed?

DIAMOND: Yes. We don't believe -- as far as we know, we don't believe Mayor Giuliani has been to the White House in the last week, at least. But obviously he is traveling with Jenna Ellis, the president's other attorney in this attempt to overturn the results of the democratic election of 2020. She has also been at his side during many of these hearings, both of them not wearing masks especially as they speak during these hearings.

You can see her right there on your screen. So obviously she should be following the CDC guidelines and self-quarantine for the next seven to 10 days. We'll see if she does that. Again, as I noted before, Mayor Giuliani was also in close contact with folks who had tested positive, and yet he did not follow those quarantine guidelines. So we'll have to see. I did reach out to the campaign, but I have not yet heard back yet on whether Jenna Ellis has gotten a coronavirus test and whether or not she plans to quarantine as well.

CABRERA: And so now, add Rudy Giuliani to the long list, a growing list, more than a dozen Trump insiders who have tested positive for COVID-19 in recent weeks and months.

Thank you, Jeremy Diamond.

CNN medical analyst Dr. Megan Ranney is joining us now, she's an emergency physician and an associate professor at Brown University.

So, Rudy Giuliani, as we mentioned, is 76 years old, Doctor. What kinds of risks does just his age group face with coronavirus?

[16:05:02]

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: So, Ana, we know that as folks get older, their risk of having severe COVID-19 disease, getting hospitalized, getting put in the intensive care unit and dying go up almost exponentially. So it's all of the risks that all of the rest of us have for pneumonia, blood clots, kidney problems, but elevated. Because your body just doesn't work as well as you get older, your immune system doesn't work in the same way and you don't have as much reserve.

So he's quite high risk for poor outcomes. I expect that he will get the very best medical care but we will be watching carefully as a nation over the next one to two weeks which is the period of time that those bad, dangerous symptoms usually show up, to see how he does.

CABRERA: Dr. Ranney, we have this video we have been showing of Giuliani. This was in Atlanta on Thursday at the state capitol. He's maskless, he's taking pictures with people, he's hugging supporters, who are also maskless. If he tested positive this weekend, how infectious do you think he was on Thursday during this scene?

RANNEY: So that is the thing about that video that is so concerning to me and that makes me, frankly, so disturbed. We know that the two days before someone developed symptoms, before they test positive, are the time when they are most infectious. So Giuliani has not just exposed himself and caught COVID, but he has potentially exposed hundreds and hundreds of Trump supporters to the virus during his most infectious days.

You know, we've seen over the last few months politician after politician who fails to follow the CDC's recommendations. That's bad enough because they're sending a bad message to the public. And any of us as parents know that kids follow your directions when you do things that you tell them to do. They follow your example as well as your words. And our politicians should be doing the right thing. That's bad enough. But what's even worse is that his irresponsible actions have potentially put others at risk as well.

CABRERA: I keep wondering, will this be the wake-up call for the White House but then I think about how the president got coronavirus, the first lady got coronavirus, Barron Trump, he had COVID and yet no wake-up call. Chris Christie spent days in the hospital, Herman Cain died, and yet last night we see the president holding another large rally, many people maskless again, in Georgia, where we know cases are surging. What would you say to him?

RANNEY: There's a few things I would say to President Trump if I had the opportunity. One is, you know, one of the really difficult things about this virus, one of the things that has led to it spreading so quickly is that it is true that many people who catch it, do OK. They feel horrible for a week or two and then they do get better. But the trouble is you can't completely predict who's going to get worse.

And we've seen time after time where social gatherings or things like campaign rallies have led to dozens or hundreds of infections and deaths. There was that wedding in Maine this summer that ended up with 177 related infections and seven deaths from folks that didn't attend the wedding. So if I could say to President Trump it would be, first, respect your supporters by knowing that when you put people together like that, you're not just putting them at risk but you're putting their families and their coworkers and their larger communities at risk.

The second thing is, he still has an opportunity to change the message. I don't know why he was so against masks at the beginning. I don't know if it was because he didn't think they look good or if it was because he didn't believe in them. But one way or another, the evidence is now clear that masks make a difference. And if he could wear a mask consistently and come out in favor of it, it would change our trajectory as a country over the next month and a half. So that would be my second plea.

CABRERA: And that is huge when we look at where we are with 281,938 Americans already dead and the cases just continuing to go up and up.

Dr. Megan Ranney, as always, thank you for being with us and sharing your expertise with us.

Joining us now is former presidential adviser to four U.S. presidents, both Democrat and Republican, David Gergen, and "USA Today" columnist Kirsten Powers.

David, first your reaction to yet another Trump official apparently being diagnosed with coronavirus.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, first reaction is I'm sorry Rudy Giuliani has it. I hope that he recovers quickly. I know all of us share that view. But I do invite the Trump supporters, please, look at what's happening. Don't just listen to the scientists as important as they are. But look what's happened to your candidate and Mr. Trump. Well over a dozen people in his inner circle now have gotten this COVID. Over 30 people in second circle out have gotten this COVID.

Look at Joe Biden. One person, maybe two people around Joe Biden have gotten COVID. No more. Now what does that tell you? That the cavalier attitude taken by the Trump people is only going to get you closer to catching this stuff.

[16:10:02]

And if you go the Biden way and the science way, you've got a really good chance of not catching it. It's just as plain as it can be.

CABRERA: And Kirsten, let's talk about the timing here, the electoral college about to meet, December 14th. The president is still trying to fight the election results in court with Giuliani leading that charge. It's like, you know, fourth quarter of the Super Bowl and team Trump just lost its quarterback.

KRISTEN POWERS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. But team Trump is not going to win this, so whether they have Rudy Giuliani or not, it's not really going to make any difference. So this is not something that I -- I personally, you know, don't believe that they even think that they can win it because it's just so obvious on the face of it that the accusations and arguments that they make publicly, that then they don't even make them when they go into court, or if they do dare to make them, they get shot down immediately. So --

CABRERA: So is this the nail in the coffin, do you think?

POWERS: I honestly don't think it makes any difference whether Rudy is in charge or not because they don't have a case. You know, he's not -- there's nothing that Rudy can say or do.

CABRERA: Right.

POWERS: There's nothing anybody can say or do because it's a confection. It's completely made up from whole cloth and nobody who pays close attention to this, including judges, Republican judges, who have looked at this have said, there's no there there. There's nothing here. There's nothing to suggest that there was fraud at any level that would affect the outcome of this election.

CABRERA: I'm with you through all of that. I guess my question more, is this where they finally let it go? Because, David, within the last week, Trump's former campaign manager Brad Parscale said Trump's handling of the pandemic cost him this election. When is this White House going to learn their lesson?

GERGEN: Probably after they leave office and when the historians write their books, then they're so will be very condemning. I mean, this is a trail -- it's irrational, it's delusional, we don't understand it. What we do know is it hasn't worked. And, you know, the new Gallup poll that was out today is so revealing. Here we've had four years of Donald Trump and he hasn't once broken in the Gallup poll, he hasn't once broken 50 percent. He's never been above 50 percent in the last four years.

This new Gallup poll showed Joe Biden, 55 percent approval, 55 percent approval. One candidacy is working and the other is not. It's time to let the president-elect get moving on govern.

CABRERA: And now you have these two Senate races that are still hanging out there. Last night the president traveled to Georgia for a massive rally ahead of their runoff elections there. And there were few masks, as we showed. No social distancing. He spent the majority of his time attacking the governor and election officials. So proverbially the capital there. Meanwhile, his attorney is literally walking through the halls of the capitol, potentially spreading the coronavirus.

Kirsten, what part of this is conducive to helping Republicans win these two runoff elections in the state? POWERS: Yes, well, I don't think they are being helpful. You know, and

I think that a lot of Republicans in Georgia feel that and have expressed that, that they're not being helpful. And just to clarify, I think I misunderstood what you were asking before, you know, about -- I think you're asking if this is going to be nail in the coffin of them stopping with, you know, continuing to insist that there was a large spread election fraud. And I actually don't think Trump will ever stop.

I think this is his story because it's a story that saves face for him, it's a story that -- it makes him say, like, I'm the winner, I was not a loser. The current president is illegitimately elected. And by the way, it allows him to continue to raise money now to the tune of a couple hundred million dollars. So, you know, off regular people sending in money, it's just this massive grift that he is perpetrating against his own supporters.

CABRERA: If we look ahead now to the next presidency, President-elect Joe Biden, Vice President-elect Kamala Harris, they sat for their first joint interview with CNN this week, and Biden referred to the forgotten people. And it reminded me a bit of something we heard from President Trump during his inauguration speech. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm going to reach out to those who didn't support me. I mean, for real, because I think a lot of people are just scared and think they've been left behind and forgotten. We're not going to forget anybody in this effort.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: January 20th, 2017, will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

[16:15:06]

The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: David, they're using the same words there, referring to forgotten Americans. But is their message really the same?

GERGEN: No. I think the message is different. You have to give credit. I think we should give credit to Trump. He got there first in terms of appealing to, you know, the white working class who are struggling, people who live in places like Kentucky and elsewhere, more rural areas. He stirred them up first.

But I think so he did it with anger and bellicosity and, you know, just -- it appealed to people's worst instincts. And Joe Biden is coming along and I think one of the reasons he's doing well, he's the adult in the room.

He's trusting people's good instincts. He's trying to play to the better angels of our nature, if you would, if you remember Lincoln. And I think it's working better for him because it's a lower key but it's -- you know, Joe Biden is under promising and overdelivering and Donald Trump was just the opposite. He overpromised repeatedly and under deliver.

CABRERA: David Gergen, Kirsten Powers, always appreciate having you both with me. Thank you.

GERGEN: Thank you.

POWERS: Thank you.

CABRERA: More breaking news now. The crisis in California. 30,000 new coronavirus cases reported in the state in just a single day. And now 33 million people are on the verge of a stay-at-home order. We'll go live to California next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:20:39]

CABRERA: Grim new numbers as the coronavirus pandemic continues to devastate the country. The U.S. has seen one million new cases in just the first five days of December.

California is among the hardest hit. The state reporting a record single-day high of new infections with more than 30,000 today alone. And available ICU beds across that state are dwindling. So now more than 33 million Californians face new restrictions kicking in tonight at midnight. Some arguing these strict new stay-at-home orders unfairly target restaurants and other small businesses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA MARSDEN, OWNER, PINEAPPLE HILL SALOON AND GRILL: They have not given us money and they have shut us down. We cannot survive. My staff cannot survive. Mayor Garcetti and Gavin Newsom is responsible for every single person that doesn't have unemployment, that does not have a job, and all the businesses that are going under. And we need your help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Let's go to Paul Vercammen. He is in Sherman Oaks, California.

Paul, you had a chance to speak to that restaurant owner. Tell us more of what she had to say and how people are reacting to these new state- at-home orders.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as far as these restaurants go, they have been suffering through the restrictions in California, a patchwork of restrictions for months and months. And the final blow was actually struck by the county here at this Pineapple Grill. It was the county two weeks ago that closed all outdoor dining in L.A. County restaurants effectively shutting this down.

So we spoke to Angela Marsden, who owns this, and of course she's had to lay off all of her employees. And she talked about how she invested all this money to set up tables behind me for outdoor dining and heaters and the like, only to be closed again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARSDEN: It's unbearable. I mean, you try to put on a good face. You try to say, don't worry, we're going to reopen. I'm going to make it happen. But to look at look at my staff, give them their last paycheck right before Christmas, and some of them are newer staff but have been shut down over and over, and their unemployment is running out, and they have kids and children. It's the most excruciating feeling. You know, but you try to be strong and you try to give hope because people need hope, you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: And we spoke to some of those staff members, a bartender who fears he'll soon run out of unemployment benefits. Another employee living on a couch, and a mother, a manager, with a 9-year- old, who's just absolutely petrified about how terrible Christmas could be. So ahead of these new stay-at-home orders in California, 27 million Californians going to be affected in Southern California and the San Joaquin region, along with another four million or so from the Bay Area, it's most of the state.

And many people here are telling us, it's about time. Certainly the medical profession, they're saying, we need these orders, we need to put the brakes on, we need to stop the virus, but that's a little consolation here in the restaurant business where they feel that they're sort of treated as a substandard group of employees that nobody has done a thing for them in terms of relief, Ana.

CABRERA: They need help. That stimulus can't come soon enough. And it's not a done deal at this point.

Paul Vercammen, thank you.

Let's go back to our breaking news. The president saying his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, has coronavirus. And that revelation comes just days after this. Giuliani spotted maskless in the halls of the Georgia state capitol. He was hugging people, he was taking pictures, shaking hands. You can see face-to-face with other people without masks.

We'll talk to a CNN producer who was there next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:28:42]

CABRERA: Back to our breaking news now. President Trump announcing his attorney, Rudy Giuliani, has tested positive for coronavirus. Now he hasn't said when Giuliani tested positive but we last saw Giuliani on Thursday. He was maskless in Georgia's state capitol, shaking hands, hugging, high-fiving supporters. A day when science says he may have been his most infectious.

I want to bring in CNN's Senior Field Producer, Devon Sayers.

Devon, you were there that day as Giuliani was walking through those halls. What did you see?

DEVON SAYERS, CNN SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER: Yes, that's right, Ana. It was actually the mayor's coming to the Georgia capitol was a bit of a surprise for us. We were at the capitol on Thursday waiting for secretary of state to finalize the recount here in Georgia from the November election. And we got word from our desk of a hearing that was happening up on the fourth floor of the capitol regarding the election.

Well, we went up there to see what was going on and Mr. Giuliani's name was not listed on the agenda. And some scuttle came through the press that he had arrived. It ended up that he was kind of camped out with some of the majority members of the Republican Senate here in Georgia in an office complex -- suite of offices adjacent to the hearing room. Well, unfortunately, those offices don't have a series of bathrooms in them so the mayor had to come out several times.

[16:30:00]

And as you can see in the video, he -- whenever he came out, he was greeted by a number of supporters of him. Chants of Rudy. And the two times that I saw him come in and out, he was not wearing a mask, hugging supporters and shaking hands, and just kind of walking around the State Capitol.

And, of course, he went into that hearing in the afternoon session, and the hearing became a presentation from Mr. Giuliani and the Trump campaign about grievances that they have on the November election.

CABRERA: Devon, what really strikes me, when I look at this video, isn't just that Giuliani is not wearing a mask but so many people he encounters and who come up to him aren't wearing masks either. And he's inside. And we know that the Coronavirus cases have been going up. I think Georgia just had its record high on Thursday or Friday, I recall. Are masks required inside the State Capitol?

SAYERS: So, I can't speak for sure if they are required. I do know that, as you come into the State Capitol, there are a number of advisements to wear masks within the Capitol. The Capitol is protected by the Capitol Police Department. A handful at best of them were wearing masks. But the majority of Capitol police, that I also saw, were not wearing masks.

As you can see in the video, a significant number of the press were wearing masks, but there were also a number of supporters of the president who were not wearing masks. So, it was a mix of both, I would say. But, now in retrospect, seeing the former mayor maskless and hugging people, it is a concerning matter.

CABRERA: And do you have a sense how many people he may have had these types of interactions with just inside the Capitol? Because when we see the video, we see at least a handful of people. But, I'm wondering, are we talking a handful or are we talking dozens or more?

SAYERS: I would say -- I would hate to guess precisely but I would say in the hundreds, if not slightly more region. You have to remember as we found out the news ourselves, you know, myself and my photojournalist, Leslie Brewer, that were in close proximity of the mayor, have do our own contact tracing. And then, the circle becomes bigger and bigger as you start looking at it more and more.

CABRERA: Have you been contacted at all, Devon, by officials who are trying to do contact tracing?

SAYERS: I have not. I saw the release and our internal systems notified me of the potential hazard. Myself, like many other people, you know, we have all sorts of different situations. I have an elderly mother who I assist with as well. And we had to make contact with the care home that she's at to advise them of the situation. So, one person can have such a large impact on so many people if, in fact, the mayor was positive when he was here on Thursday.

CABRERA: You're --- you are a great example of how that situation is quite scary and to think about who could be put at risk because of this situation. Thank you, Devon Sayers. We appreciate your reporting and just giving us sort of an eyewitness account of what was inside the State Capitol on Thursday, when Rudy Giuliani showed up without a mask and now has Coronavirus.

SAYERS: Meantime, former President Barack Obama says Georgia's Senate races will determine the course of Joe Biden's presidency. Coming up, we go live to Atlanta for a look at the state of the race and the big debate night tonight that will be watched around the country.

[16:33:26]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Two runoff elections in the state of Georgia will determine which way the U.S. Senate will lean politically when Joe Biden takes office. Now, two of those Senate candidates, Republican Kelly Loeffler and Democratic candidate, Reverend Raphael Warnock, will debate in an event airing live here on CNN in just a couple of hours from now.

And CNN's Ryan Nobles is in Atlanta. Ryan, I just said there were two runoff elections but we're only seeing one debate this evening.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Ana. There were supposed to be two debates here. The Atlanta Press Club invited all four candidates to participate in two different debates. But the Republican, David Perdue, one of the incumbents that's up for re- election, chose not to participate in that debate. So, the opening act, if you will, to the Kelly Loeffler-Raphael Warnock debate will be Jon Ossoff, the Democrat challenging Perdue, facing off against an empty lector. He will answer questions from the assembled press corps here. But David Perdue will not be here to respond to those.

And Ossoff is attempted to make this an issue in the race. He has launched an ad, criticizing Perdue of his lack of participation in debates. This isn't the first time perdue has backed out of a debate between the two candidates. And the last time the two did face off in a debate prior to the general election, it led to quite a few viral moments that Ossoff and his campaign took advantage of.

But we will see an actual debate here tonight, between Kelly Loeffler, the incumbent Republican senator who was appointed by Governor Brian Kemp, and her challenger, Raphael Warnock, a pastor at a church here in Atlanta, a historic church.

And what's interesting about this race is most political observers assume that this race was going to head to a runoff because there were so many candidates in the field. And at least one candidate needed to get over that 50 percent threshold in order to win on Election Day and that didn't happen. They expected this to be the battleground, the runoff.

And so, this debate tonight is the first time that these two candidates have faced off in a one-on-one match-up. And they have already been going after each another on the campaign trail. Take a listen to what they've been saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D), GEORGIA SENATE CANDIDATE: When you vote, we will send a signal all across the United States of America that there is a new Georgia rising.

SEN. KELLY LOEFFLER (R), GEORGIA: Georgia, we need you to vote January 5th. If your our voice on January 5th, we'll be your voice for years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[16:40:00]

NOBLES: And what you hear from both of these candidates is laying out the stakes for the voters here in Georgia. Making them understand that there is so much at play here. If the Republicans were to win just one of these seats, they would retain control of the Senate majority. And you can bet that's going to be a big topic here tonight in Atlanta -- Ana.

CABRERA: Ryan Nobles, thank you.

It is a runoff election that could decide who controls the Senate. Senator Kelly Loeffler and Reverend Raphael Warnock debate each other live on CNN. "DEBATE NIGHT IN GEORGIA," that's tonight in Georgia at 7:00 Eastern. Stay right there. My next guest is rumored to be on Joe Biden's short list for education secretary. Coming up, I'll talk to her about the debate happening in so many households right now. How do we get our kids back to the classroom or to stay in the classroom and do it safely? You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[16:40:52]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Tomorrow morning, New York City public schools will reopen to students in phases, after going virtual for several weeks. Mayor Bill De Blasio reversing his decision to close schools if the city's positivity rate reached three percent. Now, this comes as the CDC director says schools are not spreading the Coronavirus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: We now have substantial data that shows that schools, face-to-face learning, can be conducted in K through 12, and particularly in the elementary and the middle schools, in a safe and responsible way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: And there's evidence of the pandemic's mental toll on families. According to a national survey published in the journal, "Pediatrics," 27 percent of parents reported worsening mental health for themselves and 14 percent reported worsening behavioral health for their children.

Randi Weingarten is joining us now. She's the president of the American Federation of Teachers. Randy, always great to talk with you. The entire country right now is a COVID hot spot, so there's been fresh restrictions implemented in some areas. Schools are closed to in-person learning but bars and restaurants are still open for in- person dining. Does that make sense to you?

RANDI WEINGARTEN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF TEACHERS: No. So, Ana, it's great to be with you. And, obviously, that doesn't make sense.

But, you know, as I've been preparing for your show, I've been listening to some of the restaurateurs that were on. And we need a stimulus to keep them in business which is what we've been trying it get done for months and months and months because it's not fair. We know that they should be -- you know, they shouldn't be serving right now. We know that restaurants had been super spreaders. But we have to keep them in business.

And what, ultimately, I think, we need to do is we have -- as Dr. Redfield said, we have new data from the last four months that are showing that we can reopen elementary schools, in particularly, and schools for kids with special needs safely, when we have the testing and when we have the safeguards. But then, again, they can't be an island.

And what we're starting to see in the last few days is that places like Centreville, Ohio, places in Indiana, because there's so much COVID around the schools, the quarantining is such, and the red hot spots are such that schools are closing, again. So, bottom line is we need to tackle the virus. We need to make sure that the second semester we can reopen schools with the testing and with the safeguards, because what's going on right now is not sustainable.

CABRERA: But what about just masking? What about, you know, other types of measures that we know help mitigate?

WEINGARTEN: Right. So, --

CABRERA: And testing -- you know, testing is a preventive, or at least it gives you a sense of the lay of the land but that doesn't necessarily, you know, prevent --

WEINGARTEN: Right.

CABRERA: -- the Coronavirus. There are other measures. Can't we just do masks, for example, which prevents the spread?

WEINGARTEN: Well, when I say your safeguards, Ana, you know, I talk about the big six. And, frankly, we listed them all, in this blueprint that we put out last week, about how to reopen schools because we know that kids need to have in-person learning. And teachers will tell you that this hybrid measure of simultaneously teaching online and in person does not work.

But when we talk about the safeguards, you're absolutely right. Mask first and foremost. But then, physical distancing, the cleaning, the electrostatic cleaning, and ventilation. And what we've learned from the New York City experience is that when you do these things and then accommodate for both kids and teachers and their families that are at risk, you can really do this. You can open up in person.

CABRERA: There is some new research that shows the pandemic is affecting children of color more than their white peers and that test scores are down disproportionately in schools with high rates of poverty. These groups of students are falling behind in reading and math, specifically. So, this is what so many had feared.

WEINGARTEN: Right.

CABRERA: What can schools do differently right now, given the pandemic situation, to address this?

WEINGARTEN: Well, there's four things we can do. One of the things you just saw in Scranton in the last few days. People -- you know, educators are actually knocking on kids' doors to try to coax them back into schools. It's part of why we need guidance counselors, so that we can coax kids back on remote, on screen.

[16:50:03] WEINGARTEN: You know, that -- you know, teaching on screen is really different than teaching in person. It's -- you have to coax kids. You have to get them to trust that -- you know, if some -- they're seeing a screen, their peers are seeing a screen. They're not going to feel badly about it. So, there's lots of things we have to do.

But, number one is we need the resources, nurses, guidance counselors, whether we're remote or whether or not we're in person. And, number two, we need to wrap services around schools, whether remote or whether we're in person. And that takes some resources. Number three, we're going to have to really think about how to use summer in a very different way this year. Voluntarily, but enrichment and a way to think about summer as the second-second semester.

And what I've seen from some of the data is that we expected there to be a lot of learning loss and a lot of social isolation. But it's -- actually, I'm a little relieved. It's, actually, not as bad as I thought it was.

CABRERA: Yes.

WEINGARTEN: But it is one of the reasons why teachers are really trying to and my union is really trying to figure out, how do we reopen schools safely?

CABRERA: Teachers --

WEINGARTEN: If we had national mass mandate, if we had national leadership, like we will have from Joe Biden, if we have the resources, it's going to be a heck of a lot better for us to be able to do that.

CABRERA: I've got to say, teachers are doing an incredible job. And it's got to be very, very challenging.

WEINGARTEN: It's incredible.

CABRERA: I do have to ask about the next administration. You brought it up. And, you know, there have been talk about the next education secretary. Your name has come up. Have you had any conversations with the Biden transition team about a possible role in the cabinet?

WEINGARTEN: I have had a lot of conversations with the Biden transition team about reopening schools, about a vaccine, about what we need to do about student debt, about how we help have child care and family leave. I've had a lot of conversations about the work that needs to be done.

CABRERA: Would you like to be the next education secretary?

WEINGARTEN: Listen, Ana, I love my job. I love what I'm doing. Can I -- you know, honestly -- obviously, it's been an honor. This is my life's work. So, it's been an honor to be mentioned. But I'm going to work with the Joe Biden administration, the Kamala Harris administration any way we can. We have to make sure that people feel like the next few months are better than the last few months. And I have a lot of hope for this administration both economically as well as educationally as well as for health care.

CABRERA: OK, conversation to be continued another day. Randi Weingarten, great to have you here. Thank you.

WEINGARTEN: Thank you. Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: This year's CNN heroes is focusing on the fight for Coronavirus and battle for racial equity and social justice. And we're making it easy for you to help by highlighting eight organizations doing important work. Anderson Cooper tells us more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The Center for Disaster Philanthropy provides strategies to help donors increase the impact of their contributions during global crises like COVID-19. Chef Jose Andres and his World Central Kitchen feed the needy in times of crisis, using the power of food to heal and strengthen communities.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to be part of the solution.

COOPER: Adopt a classroom advances equity in education by giving teachers and schools access to the resources they need.

GLENN CLOSE, ACTRESS: I challenge every American family to no longer whisper about mental illness behind closed doors.

COOPER: Co-founded by Glenn Close, Bring Change to Mind is working to end the stigmas around mental illness, encouraging dialogue, and raising awareness, understanding, and empathy. The Make-a-Wish Foundation provides life-changing experiences for children battling critical illness, restoring in them --

UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Thank you.

COOPER: -- a sense of childhood normalcy to their families. The Equal Justice Initiative fights to end mass incarceration and excessive punishment in the United States by challenging racial and economic inequity and protecting basic human rights in the prison system. Water.org has helped change the lives of millions of people with access to safe water and sanitation in 17 countries around the world. And, finally, IssueVoter is increasing civic engagement beyond the voting booth, helping people share their views on new bills with their elected officials with just one click.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can create the world that we want to live in through representative democracy by making all of our voices heard on the issues.

COOPER: Want to learn more? Go to CNNheroes.com and click, donate, beneath any of this year's organizations to make a direct contribution to their GoFundMe charity campaign. [16:55:00]

COOPER: You will receive an email confirming your donation which is tax deductible in the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Don't forget to tune into the 14th annual "CNN HEROES ALL- STAR TRIBUTE." That's next Sunday, a week from today, December 13th.

[16:55:17]

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