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33 Million in California Under New Stay-at-Home Orders; Source Says, Attorney General Barr Considering Leaving Post before Trump Exits Office; Five Members of Gospel Music Family Battle Coronavirus. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 07, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:03]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And this morning, President-elect Joe Biden is revealing key players in the fight against this pandemic, which he and his team say will be job number one when he takes office.

Let's go to CNN's Stephanie Elam, she is in Los Angeles. And, Stephanie, I mean, the numbers of people, as you noted, right, they're not just cases, they're people, really daunting there.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Think about it. Listening to what Dr. Fauci was saying, Jim and Poppy, and then thinking about where we are right now and we haven't even seen the Thanksgiving surge, California reported more than 30,000 new cases, new infections of people with the coronavirus.

And you take a look at where the deaths stand right now in the state, it's likely that we're going to surpass 20,000 people having died from this virus in the next couple of days, hospitalizations at around 10,000 people currently in the hospital battling the disease. And then on top of it, you look at the region.

Now, California has broken up the state into five different regions. Two of those regions as of last night are now in new stay-at-home orders. Now, they're revised from what we saw in the spring.

There are some things you can do, but as far as San Joaquin Valley and Southern California, those two regions, I'm standing in one of them right now, are concerned, this means that there's no sitting at a restaurant, whether it's indoor or outdoor. This also means that your -- you can do takeout and delivery, I should say that. But this means playgrounds are closed, this means personal care services are closed, that means you're not going to be able to get your hair cut or go to the salon. All of that is on pause for at least, key part of the sentence there, at least three weeks while we try to bend this curve back down here.

What's scary is now that we haven't begun to see the surge from Thanksgiving is that, now, we're looking at the Christmas holidays and the other winter holidays, New Year's eve, you've got all of those things that are coming up. And as far as Dr. Anthony Fauci is concerned, this could be more dangerous. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: What are your concerns about Christmas, Dr. Fauci?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: My concerns, John, are the same thing of the concerns that I had about Thanksgiving, only this may be even more compounded because it's a longer holiday.

We are in a very critical time in this country right now. We've got to not walk away from the facts and the data. This is tough going for all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: And Dr. Fauci also told our John Berman that he agrees with what is happening here in California, saying that it is time to pump the brake, stop everything to try to stop the spread of this virus here. This as we've seen a couple of these regions, as I was telling you about, their ICU bed capacity falling below 15 percent. It's just scary. If they don't have the space to store all of the equipment that they need, have all the beds that they need so that they can help out the patients that are battling this virus.

This as the nation as a whole is setting records that we don't want to see at all. Taking a look at the last week, more than 1.2 million cases, people, infected with the virus in just this last week. Hospitalizations also hitting a record number, more than 101,000 people are currently in the hospital battling this virus.

These numbers are people. I know I keep saying it, but I'm hoping, Jim and Poppy, somebody will hear us and think of it differently that way.

SCIUTTO: And the pattern is clear, after holidays, Memorial Day, July 4th, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, we've seen spikes. It's in the numbers. Stephanie Elam, thanks very much.

Just a few hours after President Trump tweeted that his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, had tested positive for the coronavirus, we learned that he had been admitted to Georgetown University here in Washington.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Our John Harwood joins us now from the White House. Good morning to you, John.

Do we know? I mean, is he in serious condition that he needed to be admitted to the hospital or is this a precaution because I believe he's 76 years old?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Could be either one, Poppy. We don't know the answer. We know from Rudy Giuliani's tweet, he says he is getting good care, he is recovering quickly, feeling good. But, of course, most people don't go to the hospital unless they've got something significant to worry about. So we're just going to have to watch his condition.

What we do know is that for months now, President Trump and his associates have been dangerously careless, not just in the management of the nationwide pandemic, President Trump has pretty well checked out of that, not even trying to control the pandemic anymore, but in their own behavior in terms of masking, social distancing.

So you had President Trump himself get the coronavirus, become very sick, of course, he gets gold plated care. Many associates within the White House, within the Trump campaign have gotten COVID. Most of them, fortunately, have had mild cases. Though, Herman Cain, who was an associate, ally of the president, went to the rally in Tulsa when the president returned to the campaign trail, he died after battling coronavirus for several weeks.

[10:05:01]

But the campaign events, White House events, now the post-election events have all been dangerous super-spreader kind of events and Rudy Giuliani is now one of the casualties.

Now, one of the other casualties of that crisis has been David Bossie, who was going to be his ally in leading the post-election fight. So it begs the question, what about the president's battle against the results of the election? Well, it's not going to really make much difference because that battle wasn't going anywhere, another court defeat this morning. You've had dozens and dozens of court defeats for President Trump and his cause. And once the Electoral College votes next week, we're going to see a diminution of any energy or effort around that attempt by the president to overturn the election.

And what we're going to be left with is no more Donald Trump presidency but a terrible, tragic mess with the coronavirus with many Trump associates themselves victims and, of course, the entire nation and more than 275,000 deaths so far as victims of that crisis as well.

HARLOW: John Harwood, you lay it out incredibly well there. Thank you very much for that. Again, we hope Rudy Giuliani is okay.

Let's talk about the headlines this morning with Joshua Sharfstein, he is a former principal deputy commissioner for the FDA. Well, it's great to have you this morning because you know exactly how this week works. Can you talk to us about what we're looking at from the FDA this week and should they approve Pfizer's vaccine on Thursday then what in terms of getting it to people?

DR. JOSHUA SHARFSTEIN, FORMER PRINCIPAL DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, FDA: Sure, this is a big week because we know that vaccines are the way out of this pandemic, and really critical step happening this week. The FDA, for the last couple weeks, has been digging into the data from Pfizer and its vaccine study. It will be sharing with the public its review of that data. It will be sharing with independent advisers its review of that data on Thursday and then potentially making a decision to authorization for use by the American people.

SCIUTTO: Okay. Development, approval, it has come quickly and we should take that with confidence and with hope. There is a bit of a warning sign. The head of the president's of Operation Warp Speed, as it's known, said that production is falling behind where they wanted it to be right now. They wanted 100 million doses by the end of the year. It looks like they're not going to reach that target, perhaps half of that. What effect does that have?

SHARFSTEIN: Probably less than half of that. And I think it's going to take a while for this vaccine to really impact the course of the pandemic. You were talking about just these unbelievably high numbers. This is the last great battle we're in with COVID and it's everybody's job to fight the pandemic now in order to save as many people as possible so they can be vaccinated later.

I think it will probably be possible to vaccinate a lot of health care workers, nursing home residents and others in the super high priority group, but to even get to other essential workers, it's probably going to be closer to the end of winter and early spring.

SCIUTTO: We know today we got a bunch of big names from President- elect Biden and his team in terms of who is going to be leading the health care charge, the head of HHS, et cetera, but we don't know yet who he is choosing to head up the FDA. And your name, Doctor, has been floated by a number of outlets, the A.P., Bloomberg, Star Tribune, Baltimore Sun. Have you spoken with the Biden team about that post?

SHARFSTEIN: Well, I will say the team that he has announced so far is really terrific. I know Dr. Walensky well, Dr. Murthy, Dr. Fauci, these are just amazing people. And it would be an honor, I think, for anyone to be serving at this critically important time as part of the administration taking on COVID.

HARLOW: Have you talked to them?

SHARFSTEIN: That's not the thing we're really supposed to talk about. So -- but I will say that it is a critical moment and it's going to be really important to have a strong FDA as part of this effort.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: The problem, of course, is that the president has largely checked out on this and we still have a good month-and-a-half until President-elect Biden takes over and will be, sadly, as a country in a midst of quite a continuing surge at that point following the Thanksgiving and the Christmas holidays if you believe the Dr. Fauci's of the world, which I imagine you do. What does is job number one then when Biden takes office to rein this in, to get it under control?

SHARFSTEIN: Well, we can't completely skip past the current time, because what we do now will really determine the environment of the transition. And it -- really, thousands and thousands of lives hang in the balance. And that's why action now is so important.

When the new administration takes over, they're going to demonstrate how important taking care of the pandemic is. You have got a request for everyone to wear a mask for 100 days.

[10:10:01]

That's a great step by the president-elect. And then I think you're going to see a whole bunch of different efforts that will focus the country on what's needed to happen.

HARLOW: Doctor, the Pew poll that just came out a few days ago about how many Americans feel comfortable taking a vaccine right now, if you dig into the numbers, which I'm sure you did, I was really troubled to see black Americans are only at 42 percent in terms of willingness to take the vaccine. And, obviously, that lack of trust is based in what has happened to parts of the black population going all the way back to the Tuskegee and beyond, so it's understandable. But what efforts need to be made now and from the Biden administration to engender trust in the vaccine?

SHARFSTEIN: Sure. It is understandable. But there are things that can be done because this vaccine, if it all works out, is really incredibly important for everyone, particularly between these at high risk for COVID to take advantage of.

So, there are really two things. One is it's important to reach out to communities, talk to community leaders, engage them, answer their questions, be available and have a very solid, you know, answers and messages that people resonate to. But the second thing, and I think this may be overlooked, is that the vaccine really needs to be there for people.

So I think of acceptance and distribution as two sides of the same coin. People need to be able to get vaccine in places that they trust. So, for example, if there's a senior housing development, bring the vaccine there, bring a trusted community group with some trusted community leaders, maybe from the faith community or local non-profits there to help vaccinate. Don't say the people in the senior high-rise, you can go five blocks down to a little pharmacy where you generally don't go to get the flu shot anyway. You really have to go the extra mile and that's going to make the difference for a lot of people.

HARLOW: That's a really, really great point. Well, Dr. Joshua Sharfstein, thank you for being with us this morning.

SHARFSTEIN: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: Well, we heard about a contentious meeting last week. This week, a source telling CNN that the attorney general, Bill Barr, close confidant of the president, is now considering leaving the White House before the president does, perhaps as an act of defiance.

And the president might have lost his grip on reality when it comes to the election. The facts just don't back up his claims, but he has not lost his grip on the party. Why is that?

HARLOW (voice over): Also, millions of Americans are running out of or have run out of aid. And lawmakers are running out of time. The latest on critical stimulus negotiations, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:15:00]

HARLOW: Well, CNN has learned overnight that Attorney General Bill Barr may actually step down from his post before the end of the Trump presidency. A source acknowledged, told CNN Barr is considering the move, has not made a final decision.

Let's go to CNN Justice Correspondent Jessica Schneider. So, why now?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Poppy, that's the question. At this point though, I am hearing it is likely Bill Barr will leave his post as attorney general before January 20th. The question is, though, how will he go? Will it be on his own schedule in the coming days or weeks or will it be President Trump maybe tweeting the announcement in the coming days or hours even that Barr has been fired.

So, one source I've talked to says Barr may be pushing back now when he's so often done the president's bidding since the end is near for this administration and really why not at this point. We've reported that Barr really did draw the president's ire in the last few days after last week's interview with the A.P., where Barr said the Justice Department had not uncovered any evidence of widespread election fraud, even though the president continues to claim it.

And even then after that A.P. interview though, the DOJ seem to do this dance when it later issued a statement saying that while no fraud has been found, it was still investigating.

So, our Jamie Gangel reporting overnight that Barr is considering leaving before January 20th inauguration day, the day that Trump leaves office. Her source though telling her that Barr has not made the final decision. So, really, we're left waiting and reading the tea leaves here about what might happen.

The questions remain, will Barr walk in the next few days or the next few weeks? Will the president fire him? Poppy, of course, this is an attorney general who has rarely pushed back on the president. He seems to be doing it somewhat now but his days are numbered anyway. So the question is why now? Is it because maybe Bill Barr wants to make an exit on his terms? We shall see, Poppy.

HARLOW: We'll watch. Jess, thank you for that reporting. Jim?

SCIUTTO: I'm joined by former Pennsylvania Congressman and CNN Political Commentator Charlie Dent. Charlie, good to have you on.

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Great to be with you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Now, this may be, possibly, Barr leaving before the president has a chance to fire him, but are we seeing here even an attorney general who was in lockstep with the president on so much reached his limit when the president pressured him to find election fraud that he didn't find?

DENT: Well, yes. I think what we're witnessing is that those people around the president realized that he is becoming increasingly detached from reality with respect to this election. I mean, he just simply can't accept an outcome where we have judges, Republican elected officials and so many others around the country who said the election was open, honest and transparent. He simply can't accept the reality.

And I think now that many people realize that the emperor who knew better and know that the emperor has no clothes. And I think and we're seeing is the unraveling in the final days of this administration.

[10:20:00]

SCIUTTO: Well, the president still clearly strikes fear in the heart of many sitting GOP lawmakers. I mean, credit to The Washington Post, they reached out to all 249 GOP congressmen and senators, only one in 27, one in ten, acknowledged that Joe Biden won this election. What's behind that? Do you understand it? You served in Congress as a Republican.

DENT: Yes. Well, first, every single one of them knows that Joe Biden won the election and will become the president on January 20th. They all know it. Now, why they're not saying it publicly, it's certainly a matter of fear, fear that the president will stoke up their base and create primary problems for them. Some others perhaps are just terrified of the president, but it's simple fear.

I mean, there have been a few, obviously, Adam Kinzinger and Denver Riggleman, Fred Upton, Francis Rooney up and stated the obvious, to their credit. But I can tell you, that I suspect nearly every other -- one of those members would agree with them and they're all mortified by the president's conduct.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this then. The president lost as an incumbent, which is not a particularly easy to do. And, crucially, he underperformed his party, right? And the Republicans did well in state legislatures, in the Senate, in the House. He underperformed his party. Is he the strongest leader for Republicans? Is he the strongest candidate for 2024, which he is already floating?

DENT: Absolutely not. He's not the strongest candidate, Jim. I mean, I've pointed it out to so many of my friends. I said what happened is that the American people or at least a significant or impactful number of swing voting Republicans and independents voted against Donald Trump for Joe Biden and then went largely or straight Republican down ballot. I mean, they wanted to put a check on Joe Biden, I guess. but the point is, they clearly were uncomfortable with Donald Trump.

This was a significant rejection of him. So to think that Donald Trump should be the standard bearer in 2024 ignores the reality of what just happened. Why would you go down that road again, take the guy who just lost to lead your party? It simply makes no sense.

Now, the problem, of course, is that Donald Trump has been monetizing defeat and will continue to do so after January 20th and he's going to maintain a high profile and this will further complicate the Republican midterm efforts and it will further, on the presidential side, freeze the field unless these candidates are willing to draw a hard contrast with Trump.

SCIUTTO: It would be heard for them to raise money. Final question, if I can. I mean, you've seen GOP lawmakers constantly kind of punt on this question of who won, first, saying, let the legal fight play itself out. Of course, it has. And not only has the Trump campaign lost in court, they haven't alleged fraud in court because there are consequences for saying things baselessly on court. Now, they talk about December 14th when electors are going to meet.

But the fact is it's likely the president will continue his claims after that. Do you see Republicans coming out in numbers after December 14th when electors make this official and say, okay, Biden is president, or do they wait again for some other day?

DENT: I certainly hope that on December 14th that that's -- that should end it all and they should come out strongly. But, hey, there are efforts in place now because the House, I remember when I was in Congress, we used to have to vote to accept the outcome of the Electoral College and that vote is sometime in January. And I suspect that Trump will make more noise between the Electoral College vote and then that vote in the House. So there will be more pressure. Again, this is all part of the strategy to monetize defeat. There's no evidence. Hell, there's not even specific allegations of fraud.

In Pennsylvania, we had one in the coal region, some guy tried to vote his dead mother for Trump, and obviously wouldn't have affected the outcome in a state where Biden won by 81,000, but that's what we're dealing with. So, expect the president to continue to monetize this, to set up himself with whatever political activity he intends to pursue after his presidency.

SCIUTTO: And does Vice President Pence preside over that vote in Congress, as Al Gore did in 2000, it will be another test. Former Congressman Charlie Dent, thanks so much, as always.

DENT: Thanks, Jim, great to be with you.

HARLOW: Still ahead for us, you want to see this. A Texas family known for their powerful gospel concerts, they've been heavily impacted by COVID-19. But now, they're finding renewed connections with music and faith in these troubling times. That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Well, a Texas family known for powerful gospel concerts found renewed connections to music and prayer after several members were infected with the coronavirus.

HARLOW: Yes, it's a remarkable story. Our Ed Lavandera is in Dallas this morning with more. Good morning, Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy and Jim.

Well, the coronavirus has spread through millions of families across the country, inflicting pain and heartbreak. The Jones family singers experienced it themselves. It was a test of faith and they discovered that family is everything.

[10:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (voice over): Spiritually charged gospel revival is the Jones family calling.