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Source: A.G. Barr Considers Stepping Down Before Trump Leaves Office; Some COVID Patients in South Dakota Flown Out of State as Hospitals Fill Up; Trump's Baseless Election Fraud Claims Dominate Georgia Debate; Congress Racing to Pass Defense, Spending & COVID Relief Bills. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired December 07, 2020 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:30:00]
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: What do you make of Barr considering quitting?
CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER & CNN EDITOR-AT-LARGE: I think you'll follow this one, Brooke. The way I think about it is this way.
You're in six or seventh grade and you get wind that your serious boyfriend or girlfriend may break up with you. What do you do?
(CROSSTALK)
CILLIZZA: You rush to say I am breaking up with you first.
Exactly. We all know this. We have all been down this road. I think that's how things work. My kids are not dating age yet. That's what you're seeing.
Bill Barr is someone who, whatever you think of him, has a long resume. He was attorney general in the 1980s but reprising that role now. This is sort of a career capper, some argue it's capping his career, but that's what it seems.
And his view is: Why do I have to wait for the possibility I get fired? Even if I don't get fired, go the way of Jeff Sessions, which is have Donald Trump run me down between now and January 20th every day and say I'm a bad attorney general.
I don't really need this. So you can't fire me because I quit, is where this may all be headed.
BALDWIN: What about just the bigger picture issue of the president's repeated, as of today, recently repeated insistence he has been cheated.
Real-life ramifications are as follows. We learned that armed protesters gathered outside the home of the Michigan secretary of state, Jocelyn Benson, late Saturday night when she was there with her family trimming the tree. We have video of that.
We have also seen video of Trump supporters searching for the home of Georgia secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger.
One Senator also has extra police protection at her home. She's been getting death threats. Others have been threatened online.
My question is: What is President Trump's responsibility in all this?
CILLIZZA: I mean, it is significant.
I'll go you one better, Brooke. I honestly think -- look, we know Donald Trump is acting in a hugely irresponsible way, as he has most of his president see, but he's amped it up. That's unfortunately not surprising.
The responsibility goes further than that. "The Washington Post" -- and we're going to talk about this.
"The Washington Post" asked the 249 Republicans in the Senate and House: Do you support or not support -- who do you think won the election, Joe Biden or Donald Trump.
BALDWIN: Twenty-seven.
CILLIZZA: Twenty-nine, 29 said anything, 27 said Joe Biden, two, Mo Brooks in Alabama and Paul Gosar in Arizona, said we think Donald Trump won.
That leaves 220. That's 88 percent of elected Republicans in the House and Senate who are unwilling, Brooke, to answer the question.
They deserve blame. Every day that they don't answer the question, more things like what we saw with Joslyn Benson unfortunately will happen.
We can't expect Donald Trump -- he is not going to change his stripes. He is going to continue to be who he is, which hugely irresponsible, which is the opposite of what a leader looks like.
But what about all of the other people who were elected to represent their constituents?
BALDWIN: Call them out. Call them out.
CILLIZZA: I think we have to keep asking this question every day. Who won the election? Brooke, it is not a complicated question. I'm not asking you to solve an quadratic equation here. I am asking who won the election.
Joe Biden, 306 electoral votes. Joe Biden, 81 million popular votes, 51.3 percent of the overall vote. It is not complicated. Two plus two equals four.
If you tell me two plus two equals five, you better dang well show proof of that. And of course, there's no proof because two plus two equals four.
BALDWIN: I don't know. But fortunately or unfortunately, a lot of people think it is five. And they've thought it's five for long time.
CILLIZZA: This is why we need new leadership.
BALDWIN: I know. I know.
CILLIZZA: Brooke, this is why we need leadership. Republican, Democrat, forget it. Say, look, America has a history of fair, safe, and accurate elections.
This isn't the outcome I wanted. This is the outcome we got. We need to move forward. In two years, you can refight this battle, and say the Republican vision is better than the Democratic vision.
That's leadership.
BALDWIN: Thank you. Thank you for that.
CILLIZZA: Thanks, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Thank you, Chris Cillizza. Appreciate you making that point.
CILLIZZA: Thank you.
BALDWIN: On COVID today, hospitals are reaching capacity across the country.
[13:34:07]
In South Dakota, in particular, the situation is so dire that some people that are getting sick don't get treated in their own state. They have to be taken to neighboring states. And that includes my next guest who had to make a critical decision.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: We talked a lot just today about the strain coronavirus is putting on ICUs across the country.
Some hospitals in South Dakota are having to send critical patients to medical centers out of the state because they don't have enough beds. Some of the facilities are hundreds of miles away.
And Rose Mary Kor is one of those patients who contracted COVID. She had to be treated nearly 200 miles from her home in Wyoming. And she joins me now.
Rose Mary, I see the tube.
Tell me, first and foremost, how are you feeling today, how are your lungs?
ROSE MARY KOR, COVID PATIENT FLOWN TO HOSPITAL OUT OF STATE FOR TREATMENT: They're slowly getting better. But they're not apparently entirely healed yet.
BALDWIN: Let me tell part of the story. I want you to pick up.
You were rushed to the E.R. after struggling to breathe. You thought it couldn't be just asthma. Do an emergency x-ray. They say it is pneumonia due to COVID, and you need to be hospitalized in a more sophisticated facility.
[13:40:08]
But the closest facility was full. So if you tried, you would have turned away. What options were you given?
KOR: Well, they said we're going to try to send you to Wyoming and the two options are Gillette and Casper, we'll see who will take you.
As it turned out, Wyoming Medical Center in Casper was the one that could take me.
BALDWIN: Now, at the time when you're not feeling very well and they're telling you, we're sorry, ma'am, you need to go to another state, what were you thinking?
KOR: What is happening is, what I was thinking. How could this be? Do you guys know how far away Casper is?
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: How many hours driving?
KOR: Well, if you drive it, it is about three hours.
BALDWIN: So not exactly next door to you.
Then you end up going to the facility in Wyoming. You were there, treated for two weeks.
I understand a family friend had to drive many hours to pick you up and take you home.
We see pictures of you not looking well in the hospital.
You're back home now in South Dakota. But heaven forbid, Rose Mary, if something happened, and you had a health complication --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: -- do you go back all the way to Wyoming?
KOR: Well, I would start with my doctor here at the Custer Clinic. But I don't know what would happen if they would have to ship me somewhere else.
It seems like our system is not prepared for the scope of what this virus is doing. BALDWIN: Just to point out to everyone listening, watching, South
Dakota is the worst in the country when it comes to COVID cases. You are a living, breathing, thank goodness, example of what the virus can do.
Why do your fellow South Dakotans seem so dug in -- how one state legislator put it -- on their distrust in science and belief that COVID won't come for them?
KOR: Well, this is not particularly kind, but I think they're stupid.
We were being careful. I mean, we live out in the forest. I rarely went to town.
I wore a mask. We didn't go to -- I haven't been going to church. You know, but still.
My husband I think got it first and then I got it. He was able to recover at home.
But if you're not thinking this is real, that you don't need a mask, that you don't need to be careful, you're living in some sort of alternate reality.
BALDWIN: I appreciate your honesty.
Listen, I know my mom taught me never to call anyone stupid, but you're living proof of coming to the other side of this horrible, horrible virus.
I had it back in April, not as bad as you. When you come to the other side, see people not wearing masks -- like, for example, your own governor, Kristi Noem, hasn't even issued a mask mandate.
You know the loneliness. You know the struggle to breathe.
What would you say to your governor who refuses to enforce a mask mandate, Rose Mary?
KOR: I would say Governor Noem has shown deep lack of leadership.
Now, this is South Dakota and things are decentralized. She may not actually have the authority to issue a mandate.
But she could stand up and say look, folks, we need to do this. And she hasn't said the word mask at all that I am aware of.
BALDWIN: She has a might bit of power as governor of your state. And it is my understanding she could do that and she has not done that.
I appreciate you for wearing a mask.
I'm glad you and your husband are OK. We are thinking about you both. And be well, Rose Mary.
Thank you for coming on with me. Be well. KOR: Thank you.
[13:44:32]
BALDWIN: All eyes are on Georgia's Senate runoff races today with baseless attacks on the state's election process. One GOP candidate refused to accept a Biden win at last night's heated debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: It is the last day to register to vote in Georgia's two key Senate runoff elections, two races that will decide who controls the U.S. Senate.
Two of the four candidates, incumbent, Kelly Loeffler, and Reverend Raphael Warnock faced off last night in the debate where both attacked each other's character.
Loeffler repeatedly painting Warnock as a, quote, unquote, "radical liberal." The reverend going after the Senator's business dealings and calling her "divisive."
But looming large there in Georgia was Trump's baseless claims about the election.
In fact, one of the panelists asked Senator Loeffler if she thought the presidential election was rigged.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator, do you think the election was rigged?
SEN. KELLY LOEFFLER (R-GA): Look, Greg, it's very clear that there were issues in this election. There are 250 investigation open, including an investigation into one of my opponents' organizations, you know, for voter fraud.
[13:50:02]
And we have to make sure that Georgians trust this process because of what's at stake in this election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Ryan Young is our CNN national correspondent there in Atlanta.
We'll talk to Greg, the person who asked her that question next hour.
But no direct answer from Senator Loeffler. Today, what, are both candidates walking away, claiming victory?
RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Basically. You could see her sort of walking that tight rope right there in front of our eyes.
You think about this, Vice President Pence was here on Friday. Donald Trump was here on Saturday, making some of those same claims.
So then you have Sunday night, the big night of the nation watching the state of Georgia. There was no way she was going to sort of walk that back.
It was sort of interesting to watch her try to get around the questions.
If you have an election on January 5th, what are Republicans supposed to do? If they follow the president, are they not going to vote? That's been a question we've been talking about for the last two weeks.
Those questions were asked directly to her. She would not answer those questions directly.
When you talk about Rafael Warnock, the reverend who is the head of the Ebenezer Baptist Church, he's been known in this community for quite some time.
He was asked a direct question about the Supreme Court as well.
Take a listen to this clip from last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. RAPHAEL WARNOCK, (D), GEORGIA CANDIDATE FOR U.S. SENATE: As I move all across the state, Greg, people aren't asking me about the courts and whether we should expand the courts.
I know that's an interesting question for people inside the Beltway to discussion but they're wondering when in the world they're going to get some COVID-19 relief.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm wondering, if you can answer the question, do you support expanding the Supreme Court?
WARNOCK: I'm really not focused on it. And I think that too often the politics in Washington has been about the politicians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: Sort of a lot of evading going on, Brooke.
But when you think about this and put it in context, think about the money that's being spent in terms of this election. We're talking about $350 million has been spent on ads for the two election races here in the state of Georgia.
Of course, all eyes sort of on these two elections, as it could move the Senate forward in a different direction.
But so many questions about what would happen next.
Now, the two candidates did agree on one thing, Brooke, which is they both would take the vaccine for COVID-19. That was something interesting to hear both of them talk about.
But in terms of pandemic and how to move this thing forward and how they could help the state sort of recover from what they've been facing, we didn't get a lot of those answers last night during the debate.
BALDWIN: Not a lot of straight answers.
Again, we'll talk to Greg next hour how that tricky was again for them.
Ryan, thank you very much. Ryan Young in Atlanta.
YOUNG: Thank you.
BALDWIN: It is coming down to the wire for Congress to pass a spending bill to avoid a government shutdown, on top of finalizing a relief package for millions of Americans impacting by the pandemic. Can they get it done with only days left?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:57:36]
BALDWIN: Lawmakers have a critical two weeks ahead of them. The to-do list is a big one. It includes passing a spending deal by Friday to keep the government funded, striking a deal on the coronavirus stimulus package and passing the National Defense Act.
CNN congressional reporter, Lauren Fox, is up on Capitol Hill for us.
Lauren, dare I ask, any sign of progress?
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, there are some signs of progress, Brooke. Over the weekend, lawmakers and aides continued to have conversations about the stimulus relief package.
But they are still hung up on two key issues. Those are liability protections to protect businesses from being sued. That's something that's been a red line for majority leader, Mitch McConnell.
And state and local funding. They are closer on state and local funding, I'm told. That's been a priority for Democrats.
But the stimulus package that was supposed to be unveiled today by Democratic and Republicans lawmakers, in terms of bill text, may not actually come out today. So things are moving a little more slowly.
We also know there's a spending deadline, Brooke, at the end of the week. Right now, those discussions about a big omnibus bill, they're still ongoing.
So we expected lawmakers will punt an additional week to a short-term C.R. to get them over that Friday deadline.
That leaves us with the Defense Policy Bill. This has been traditionally a bipartisan bill, 59 years and running.
We know that President Trump has signaled he may veto that legislation. If he does so, Republicans and Democrats will have to come together to have a two-thirds majority to overcome that veto.
We'll be watching to have the votes to do that. We know Steny Hoyer, the leader of the Democrats in the House, said he's confidence they can do it in the House of Representatives.
All eyes will be on the Senate, whether or not they would be able to override the presidential veto.
And we have just a week left, two weeks left of Congress being in session, Brooke, depending on the C.R., that we expect they'll have to go with.
BALDWIN: Let's hope they do their jobs and get it done this week.
Lauren Fox, thank you so much.
We continue on. Hour two. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
Listen, the middle of January could be a really dark time for the United States. That is the warnings from Dr. Anthony Fauci this hour.
[13:59:55]
He says, even though we're seeing an astounding spike right now, another one million cases in just five days, we haven't even seen the results from the Thanksgiving holiday yet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
