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American Airlines Prepares to Transport Pfizer's COVID-19 Vaccine; Moncef Slaoui Encourages Mandatory Vaccine For Some Jobs; Speculation Grows as Trump's Election Court Losses Continue. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired December 07, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: We haven't even seen the results from the Thanksgiving holiday yet.

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ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The numbers we're seeing now might in part be due a bit, but the full brunt of the Thanksgiving has not yet been felt. It's usually two to 2.5 weeks following the event, and in this case the event is the Thanksgiving weekend.

What we're seeing now is our baseline of infections daily ranged between 40 and 70,000 per day. But as we got deeper into the cooler weather of the fall and the soon-to-be-colder weather of the winter, people do things indoors, they start shopping, they start doing this that congregate them together. And that's why we're seeing what we're seeing now, which is the reason why I'm so concerned because the blip from Thanksgiving isn't even here yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So since it's not here yet, you know, in anticipation of that Thanksgiving spike, 33 million people in California are now under these new stay-at-home orders, and that is roughly 85 percent of the state's population.

Also happening, the FDA will meet on Thursday to consider emergency use authorization for Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine, but the CDC and Operation Warp Speed have just told state leaders that even once the vaccine is given the green light, the supply will likely fall short. And then initially, they say, there won't be enough shots to fully vaccinate the groups designated as first priority.

All of this is happening as President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani is very sick, he's hospitalized with COVID-19. He spent weeks and weeks on the road, meeting with a lot of people, shaking hands, fighting the election results on the president's behalf. This is video from when he was at the state capitol there in Georgia, in Atlanta last Thursday, you see, not wearing a mask. We'll get an update on him in just a moment, but first to the FDA

meeting this week about Pfizer's vaccine. Once the vaccine is approved and ready to go, what happens from there? CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean joins me now with that part of the story.

And just a reminder to everyone, Pete, you know, the whole process gets a little trickier because it's the Pfizer vaccine that has to be stored at super cold temperatures, 103 degrees below zero.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: It is tricky, Brooke. You know, American Airlines tells me it has a plan in place to begin transporting the vaccine within 24 hours of FDA approval. But what is so interesting here, as you mentioned, are the challenges in keeping the vaccine cold while it is in transit.

American Airlines just showed me its cargo cold storage facility in Philadelphia: pharmaceuticals only, thousands of square feet, essentially one giant refrigerator. The temperature inside there, about 40 degrees. And the hope is that that will help preserve the vaccines that, as you mentioned, need to be super-cold while they're being transported. The Pfizer vaccine, negative-100 degrees Fahrenheit.

American Airlines hopes that this is just a pitstop, though, on the way to getting the vaccine to you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGER SAMWAYS, AMERICAN AIRLINES: What we're trying to do is to move a shipment from the originator, from the shipper to the cosignee (ph) as quickly as possible. So we don't want shipments to be in our possession for too long, but when they're in our possession we need to look after them really carefully.

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MUNTEAN: Another big challenge here is keeping the vaccine cold while it is in flight. For the first time, we saw from Americans Airlines these refrigerated cargo containers, essentially a small version of that giant room. That, you can set the temperature on the side and alarms will sound if the temperature is off by only a quarter of a degree.

This is high-tech stuff, Brooke, and really critical for airlines because they could be the ones transporting the vaccine the furthest distance.

BALDWIN: No, it's definitely high-tech stuff and that's part of the complication of this particular vaccine. Thank goodness for it, but you know, in terms of distribution and everyone having those refrigerators or a lot of dry ice or what have you. We'll watch how it all unfolds in the coming weeks. Pete Muntean, thank you for the update there from American.

CNN medical analyst Jorge Rodriguez is an internal medicine and viral specialist. And Doctor Rodriguez, always a pleasure, welcome, welcome. Let's just --

JORGE RODRIGUEZ, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Likewise.

BALDWIN: -- roll right in with , you know, your reaction to the CDC and Operation Warp Speed telling state leaders that initially, when it comes to this vaccine, there won't be enough shots to go around.

RODRIGUEZ: Well you know what, another disappointment coming in this direction as far as the vaccines. If anything, I hope that they have two vaccines for every person that starts to receive the first one, otherwise it is for naught because both the Pfizer and the Moderna require two.

I think it's disappointing, I know that it's very critical to do. But again, so many dominoes have to fall in place. All we can do is just trudge on.

BALDWIN: Are you concerned -- like, it's like on the one hand, so grateful for the Pfizer vaccine. But the complication is that it does need to be, you know, served up, distributed at a very, very cold temperature. Can you just speak to that? And then also what plans are you in on, if any, to help distribute vaccines there in California?

[14:05:17]

RODRIGUEZ: I am concerned. Actually with the Pfizer vaccine, we have to be very careful. Just a few hours out of that temperature, the vaccine is basically inactivated. So even though I have confidence that the locations that are receiving it are going to follow strict protocols, check the temperatures, make sure that it is not administered. If it goes below, there may be accidents that occur. In California, there may be power outages.

And I know that most of these places have backup generators, but that's a possibility. Those vaccines may have to be thrown out.

I am not involved in any way in California for the distribution of this vaccine, so I'm sort of in the dark, just like everybody else, until the government rolls out its program.

BALDWIN: Another piece of this whole vaccine story is about, you know, might someone be required to take the vaccine? I know the chief adviser of Operation Warp Speed was asked today, you know, if he thinks employers should make the vaccine mandatory. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MONCEF SLAOUI, CHIEF SCIENTIFIC ADVISER, OPERATION WARP SPEED: I think if your role puts other people at risk if you infect them, I would think you should take the vaccine, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you don't believe it should be mandated by the employer, public or private?

SLAOUI: First of all, if you want to keep that role, you should have the vaccine. So you don't have to take the vaccine, but you wouldn't keep the role.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: How do you feel about this, Dr. Rodriguez?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, you know what, we're walking a very thin line here, but there is precedent. Employers, offices, and you know, different organizations, in order for employment, do require vaccinations. In the health care field, you have to be vaccinated against hepatitis A, B, make sure that you don't have tuberculosis. So it is not unusual to require this.

Listen, I'm a hard liner on this. I think that if you are in a position where you might infect other people, perhaps a mandatory vaccination should be required.

BALDWIN: I was talking to the head of the California Hospital Association last hour, and we were talking about just how bad it is in California. I was asking her why, because you know, you all did all -- it seemed like you all did all the right things early on. And she said she could tie it directly to Halloween and the gatherings from Halloween.

And we don't even have those numbers yet from Thanksgiving, we can't even imagine, you know, what the holidays in December are going to be like. What's your biggest worry?

RODRIGUEZ: My biggest worry is that people aren't going to heed the recommendations that have already been given. Listen, this is so manageable at this time. We are on a huge slope, but if people today, right now, this second start doing what is recommended -- distancing, masks -- and stop being -- I hate to say it -- so stupid about, you know, arguing about this? It is not a big sacrifice. We really can stem this tide.

Listen, we're already rolling. We'll see damage in two weeks, but we can control this.

BALDWIN: It's incredible, you're the second person now to say stupid, referring to people who don't follow the rules. I hear you, I hear you, we're just at that point where it's like --

RODRIGUEZ: I don't mean to be rude, but yes.

BALDWIN: No, I got you, I got you, Doc.

My last question is, you know, this notion in California of this round of stay-at-home orders. Do you think that that is the state's only and best option? And let's just remind people, it's because of -- not because of an infection, but because of ICU beds and, you know, folks running out of staffing at hospitals.

And I say this because business owners are obviously irked because there is a possibility of banning outdoor dining, and they say that doesn't make any sense. RODRIGUEZ: Yes, you know what, there are some things that don't make

sense. And I think California, by and large, is way ahead of the curve as far as leadership in how the state has been conducting itself, but there are transgressions that happen all the time, and I wish it was clearer.

I do think it's going to help some, and it isn't just that our ICUs are up to like just 10 percent of full capacity, infections here have also tremendously increased. So I hope that it will stem the tide. But again, nothing works if there are no teeth behind it to implement it, so the state needs to go beyond recommendations and things do need to be enforced, otherwise people are just going to do end runs around the recommendations.

BALDWIN: COVID fatigue is real, man. I mean, so many people are feeling it --

RODRIGUEZ: True.

BALDWIN: -- at the end of the year, but we just have to get through these next couple of months altogether. Jorge Rodriguez, Doc, thank you so much.

RODRIGUEZ: Thank you.

BALDWIN: President-elect Joe Biden is making a big announcement today, unveiling key members of his health team who will be tasked with fighting this pandemic. We have that new information coming in.

And another member of President Trump's inner circle tests positive for COVID: Rudy Giuliani is now in the hospital after spending weeks crisscrossing the country, shaking hands with people all without wearing a mask.

[14:10:03]

And after weeks of misinformation and baseless court challenges, sources tell CNN that the Trump campaign's legal fight against the election results may be coming to an end. That is next.

You're watching CNN, I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just in to CNN here, we are learning that aides to President Trump are now speculating whether President Trump will travel to Mar- a-Lago for the holidays and never go back to the White House.

That is coming on the heels of word that the Trump campaign's legal efforts to overturn the results of the election may be coming to an end. Our White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins is with me now from the White House.

And I mean, my producer and I were joking about how everyone's working from home, but seems the whole staying in Mar-a-Lago would be taking it perhaps a step too far. What are you hearing about that? [14:15:09]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Basically there is a ton of speculation about what's going to happen with the president. Because sources have described a Trump who is more unpredictable than ever since that election loss. And one thing that has come up is whether or not he's going to go down to Palm Beach for the Christmas holidays, and not come back to Washington.

That seems unlikely if you speak with several people, but it is something that people have tossed around, this idea that the president, who has of course refused to acknowledge Joe Biden's win, delayed that transition for several weeks, could go down to his Mar-a- Lago club and not return to D.C.

Though of course, right now we're so far off from that that no one really wants to say definitively what the president is going to do, because of course he's been making decisions really on the fly. Remember, Thanksgiving, he cancelled that trip only a few days before because he wanted to stay back in Washington because he's got all these things that he wants to get done before he does have to leave office in January, even if he is refusing to acknowledge that publicly.

As he did again today, when reporters went into the Oval Office, they saw the president and he compared the United States to a third-world country as he continued, Brooke, to fume about these election results.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It was a rigged election. You look at the different states, the election was totally rigged. It's a disgrace to our country, it's like a third-world country, these ballots pouring in from everywhere, using machinery that nobody knows ownership, nobody knows anything about.

They have glitches, as they call them, glitches, the glitches weren't glitches, they got caught sending out thousands of votes, all against me by the way. You know, this was like from a third-world nation. And I think the case has been made -- and now we find out what we can do about it. But you'll see a lot of big things happening over the next couple of days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: So Brooke, he said there he thinks their case has been made. Of course what they realize internally is that they're up against a lot of judicial deadlines that don't seem like they're going to work out in their favor -- the ones so far have not, the Trump -- the president and his allies have lost or withdrawn 40 cases since the day of the election, they've only won one of those so far that actually made a difference to them, it was about absentee voters showing their IDs. So not any success in the court sense of this.

So it seems that the president and his team are getting this sense internally that their legal efforts to not overturn the results -- because of course that hasn't been successful -- but potentially delay it, are coming to an end and they don't have a lot of room left to try to explore that or go down that road any further from where we are now.

BALDWIN: Kaitlan, thank you very much for all of that, at the White House.

President-elect Joe Biden is assembling his team to lead the fight against the coronavirus pandemic. And before they, though, can really get to work, they'll need to clear one big hurdle: the confirmation process. Republicans are already criticizing Biden's choice for the head of the Department of Health and Human Services, California Attorney General Xavier Becerra.

CNN political correspondent Arlette Saenz is live in Delaware, covering the Biden transition for us.

And so, Arlette, the president-elect will officially be introducing the team tomorrow. What do you know about the team?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, President- elect Joe Biden has rolled out these key members of his health team as he is putting together that group that will help him tackle the coronavirus pandemic.

And at the top of that list is Biden's choice to be the HHS secretary, and that is California Attorney General Xavier Becerra. He has been a longtime member of Congress who now, if confirmed, would be the first Latino to lead that agency.

Now, Biden has also landed on Vivek Murthy. He previously served as surgeon general, he is asking him to reprise that role in his administration. In addition to that, Biden has chosen Rochelle Walensky, a doctor up at Mass General Hospital up in the Boston area, who has also worked at Harvard. She is an infectious disease expert who he has tasked to lead as the director of the CDC.

Now, Biden has also chosen Anthony Fauci, the doctor well known to many Americans, and he has asked Fauci to serve as his chief medical adviser in the White House.

And there are some other key officials who have also been rolled out today, including Dr. Marcella Nunez-Smith. Now, she will be heading the COVID-19 Equity Task Force. This is a new position that Biden is creating and is part of his commitment to try to address some of the inequities during the COVID-19 pandemic as black and Latinos have been disproportionately affected by this virus.

Now, to drill in a little bit on Xavier Becerra, he's served in Congress for quite some time. He has also been leading the legal fight to protect the Affordable Care Act as the Trump administration and Republican states have tried to dismantle it. And he will be facing a very important task as they are trying to get this coronavirus pandemic under control -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Arlette, thank you for the update there on the health team under the Biden administration.

[14:19:56]

Coming up, loyalty apparently has its limits, a source telling CNN that the attorney general, Bill Barr, is actually considering quitting before Trump even leaves the White House. This is all coming after Trump erupted (ph) at Barr after he had said that there was no widespread voter fraud. Those new details, next.

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BALDWIN: Welcome back to CNN, I'm Brooke Baldwin, thank you for being here. Attorney General Bill Barr is just the latest Trump administration member to come under fire from his boss. Barr's transgression was not backing President Trump's declaration of widespread voter fraud in the election, and now sources are telling CNN that Barr is considering leaving the Justice Department before Inauguration Day on January 20th.

[14:25:16]

CNN's special correspondent Jamie Gangel is working this story for us. And, Jamie, Barr has been, you know, quite loyal to a fault up to this point. Late last week, Trump was asked if he had any confidence in his attorney general, and this is what he said. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you still have confidence in Bill Barr?

TRUMP: Ask me that in a number of weeks from now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I mean, knowing the type of person Bill Barr is, how do you think he would take that non-yes answer?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Not well. As one source told me, Brooke, Barr is, quote, "not someone who takes bullying and turns the other cheek." Look, we've seen this movie before with other cabinet members, and it appears now that the attorney general has had enough and is considering leaving early.

We know, as you said, that Barr has carried plenty of water for President Trump, but that now seems to be over. And I think part of this is simply he is not willing to go along with this fantasy of widespread election fraud. I'm also wondering whether he really doesn't want it to be on his watch, as Trump seems to be growing more unhinged.

And also there are a lot of questions now about controversial pardons, possible pre-emptive pardons for the Trump children, possibly trying to pardon himself. And finally, you know, does Barr see the writing on the wall like many before him? Does he want to resign before Trump fires him -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, so we're officially on Bill Barr watch it sounds like --

GANGEL: Right.

BALDWIN: -- in these next couple of weeks.

GANGEL: Yes.

BALDWIN: There was a survey in the "Washington Post," Jamie, and a small number of Republicans would even answer the question as to whether they thought Joe Biden won the election, only 27 said yes; two Republican congressmen said Trump won, but 220 Republican members did not give a clear answer or just refused to answer at all.

I know you have a lot of these folks on speed dial as sources. I would love to know what they're saying to you behind the scenes, and does the silence surprise you at all?

GANGEL: So behind the scenes, they are saying the election is over, they are not participating in the fantasy. But am I surprised? No. After the last four years, I am not surprised. I would say that they are still hiding under their desks. This is a signal of the fact they're still scared of him, they are afraid that he's going to go after them (ph) and they want to stay in power.

I confess I thought the election would make a difference. I thought Georgia and Pennsylvania calling it over and over for Biden might change it, but Donald Trump's saying --

BALDWIN: Wow, so even you were surprised.

GANGEL: I was, I really thought once the election was called, it would happen. But Donald Trump is at least teasing that he's going to run again --

BALDWIN: 2024.

GANGEL: -- and look at the number of votes he got, these Republicans are still worried about the Trump base.

BALDWIN: That is a whole other conversation you and I will save for another day --

GANGEL: Yes.

BALDWIN: -- just about when and if he announces it -- which by the way doesn't mean he will actually follow through and do it, at what point these --

GANGEL: Correct, correct.

BALDWIN: -- Republicans will say, OK, buh-bye. Jamie Gangel, to be continued my friend. Thank you very much.

GANGEL: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up here on CNN, why some communities, even in the hard-hit areas of the country, still are not sold on getting the vaccine. We'll talk to one doctor trying to build up that trust, specifically among African-Americans.

And a Georgia Senate candidate gets in a bind over a question that really -- speaking of our last conversation -- you know, should have a simple answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSS SPENCER; FOX ANCHOR: Well if everything is at stake on January 5th, that would presume that President Trump has lost. Is that what you're saying?

SEN. KELLY LOEFFLER (R-GA), SENATE CANDIDATE: You know, what's at stake is the Senate majority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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