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Trump Lawyer Rudy Giuliani Tests Positive for COVID-19; Senate Candidates in Georgia Debate Ahead of Critical Vote; Tense Post-Brexit Trade Talks Resume as Deadline Looms; EU Committee Voting Soon on Online Child Sex Abuse Law; American Actor Ashton Kutcher Joins Fight Against Online Child Sex Abuse; Finding Christmas Comfort During a Pandemic. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired December 07, 2020 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani has tested positive for COVID-19. A source says the 76-year- old was admitted to a hospital in Washington on Sunday. On Twitter, the former New York mayor said he's getting great care and feeling good.

It's unclear when he contracted the virus. Giuliani had been traveling across the country, leading the President's legal effort to try and overturn election results. And as you can see from this event on Thursday, he has often ignored social distancing guidelines and refused to wear a mask.

Well, voters here in Georgia have some major political leverage right now. The state is less than a month away from two runoff elections that will decide whether Republicans keep control of the U.S. Senate. On Sunday, Republican incumbent Kelly Loeffler debated Democratic challenger, Raphael Warnock. Loeffler said President Trump has a right to investigate voter fraud when asked if she stands by his baseless claims of election tampering. Warnock criticized Loeffler over her rhetoric saying she's casting doubt an American democratic election.

Meantime, Republican incumbent David Perdue refused to participate in a debate against his opponent, Democrat Jon Ossoff. so on Sunday, Ossoff debated next to an empty podium.

Ron Brownstein is a senior CNN political analyst. He joins me now from Los Angeles. Always great to have you with us.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: So great to be with you, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So Ron, we all watched the debate between Republican Kelly Loeffler and Democrat Raphael Warnock as they battled it out in advance of the January 5th Senate runoff election here in Georgia. Which one came out on top and what did the polls show in terms of what each one has to do to win in this very close election?

BROWNSTEIN: Well you now, so far, the polling has shown Raphael Warnock ahead. The caveat being it is really hard to call for special election because you have even less certainty about who is going to show up and vote than you do in a normal election. And obviously, in this previous, you know, November, we saw once again the polls underestimated how many of Trump's non-urban, non- college white supporters were turn out.

Look, in this debate, you saw that Kelly Loeffler was completely invested in a single message, robotically, really, over and over again, that Raphael Warnock was a radical, liberal tool of Chuck Schumer.

You can see from that debate. She's pretty much abandoned the idea of trying to move the white collar suburbs outside Atlanta that trended away from Donald Trump. She is all about turning out the base.

Raphael Warnock probably could have pushed back a little harder sometimes in those characterizations, but I thought he was pretty effective on one consistent note. I am one of you. She is a rich person. She looked out for herself when things hard with coronavirus. She will not look out for you.

CHURCH: Yes, she also knows the word socialist scares a lot of Republicans --

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CHURCH: -- and she kept repeating that one over and over. So, the other critical Senate runoff election on January 5th is the race between Republican David Perdue and Democrat Jon Ossoff. But Perdue refused to debate his Democratic rival. In his place was an empty lectern while Ossoff took all the questions from moderators.

So, how does that play politically? How does Perdue get away with refusing to debate, not once, but twice?

BROWNSTEIN: It's a calculated risk for him. I mean, in that again both of these Republicans are betting overwhelmingly on turning out the Trump base. And I think they are assuming that they will not pay a price for refusing to participate in kind of normal rules of small d, democracy, much like Donald Trump has. And David Perdue outpolled Jon Ossoff in November, you know. He ran ahead of Donald -- Perdue ran ahead of Donald Trump.

But I think there is a risk to him as to Loeffler that if there is any kind of splinter in that Trump base based on all of the accusations flying back and forth between the President and the leading Republicans in Georgia about, you know, the President's unfounded claims of fraud there, they are conducting themselves in a way, both Perdue and Loeffler, that leaves very little margin for error with the suburban voters.

I mean, I didn't see anything in Loeffler tonight that was aimed at converting anyone who wasn't already in her camp. And obviously Perdue by skipping the debate altogether is sending a similar message.

CHURCH: Yes, and then of course, President Trump has talked so much about his false claims of election fraud that many Republicans in Georgia are now questioning why they should even bother to turn out to vote. What is the likely impact? The voters have been told the system is rigged on one hand, but then they're asked to get out and vote. What are they supposed to make of that?

[04:35:00]

BROWNSTEIN: It's cognitive dissonance. And you know, probably not a lot of voters will be affected by it, but you don't need a lot of voters to tip the outcome in a state that is now a true swing state that is this closely divided.

And Kelly Loeffler was kind of pathetic on that front tonight. I mean, she just simply would not say that Donald Trump won the election -- lost the election, excuse me. She would not defend the governor of Georgia who appointed her. She offered not a single word of defense to him against all of Donald Trump's claims.

And it just shows you what a difficult position these Republicans are in now that they have bet their futures so entirely on turning out the Trump base, have accepted the erosion in the suburbs that Trump has generated. That means they have very little leeway to do anything that might have upset that base. And you saw that tonight in her struggles on those answers.

CHURCH: We'll see what happens there, as well. Ron Brownstein, thank you as always.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

CHURCH: Well as expected, Venezuela's ruling party has won the country's controversial parliamentary election that the U.S. Secretary of State calls a sham. There was reportedly very low voter turnout due to opposition leaders urging the public to boycott what they called a fraudulent election perpetrated by President Nicolas Maduro. He calls the results great victory of the democracy. Of the opposition's Juan Guaido, who is recognized by the U.S. and many other nations as the interim president, said Venezuelans have turned their backs on the government.

The future of the U.K.'s relationship with its closest neighbors hangs in the balance this hour. We have been in a holding pattern since Brexit happened in January. Well now as 2020 comes to a close, negotiations over the future trading relationship are coming down to the wire. And there's a real chance of no deal. International diplomatic editor Nic Robertson joins us now live from London. Good to see you, Nic. So where is this going, and what would be the possible consequences of no deal?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, I think the best read that we appear to have at the moment is a briefing given by Michel Barnier, the EU's chief negotiator this morning to EU ambassadors. And of course it is leaking out, and those different ambassadors from the 27 different EU nations speak to reporters and what we understand at the moment is from an EU diplomat close to these talks is that in fact the sense from the European Union is it's up to the U.K. to move. That really time is absolutely running out.

We know that time is running out for a number of reasons. That is that whatever trade deal is negotiated and at this stage, if it is, it's expected to be a very thin one, would have to be ratified by the European Parliament, by the U.K. Parliament by the end of the year, and that is getting very, very difficult to do.

There is a bill, a contentious bill going through Parliament today in the U.K. that could also have an impact on the mood at the talks and indeed it could have an impact on the outcome of the talks. The Irish Prime Minister has said over the weekend that he believes that the talks right now are at a 50/50 place, that it could go either way.

I think the reality is that, yes, the clock is ticked down. It is decision time. You know, Boris Johnson will be speaking with the European Commission President, Ursula von der Leyen later today.

But the reality is this is a negotiation, both sides were always going to play to their audiences, both, particularly for Boris Johnson, the need to bring along hardline Brexiteers, showed he's gone a long way. Not let them down on their positions. And we understand in the U.K. that is a very, very strong lively debate at the moment that the Prime Minister is certainly hearing about.

But maneuvering tactics, we don't really know what's going on inside the room at the moment, and that's the bottom line. We just don't know. But we do know that both sides are signaling very clearly that absolutely now is the moment where a deal is going to have to be made, where the tough decisions will have to be taken, but it's just not clear which way it's going to go.

CHURCH: All right, we'll continue to watch very closely. Nic Robertson bringing us the latest there from London. Many thanks.

An EU vote could stop tech firms from tracking online content. Why Hollywood actor Ashton Kutcher says it would be a terrible mistake, and children would be the victims.

[04:40:00]

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CHURCH: Later today in Brussels a committee of the European Parliament is expected to take a vote that could have big consequences for the fight against child sexual abuse. The issue is whether big tech firms can keep scanning social media web sites and personal messages to detect predators. Some critics say that's a violation of privacy. Nina dos Santos has more now from London.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With countries locked down and people spending more time online, authorities in Europe are sounding the alarm about a rise in sexual exploitation of children.

YIVA JOHANSSON, EUROPEAN COMMISSIONER FOR HOME AFFAIRS: We have so many signs that grooming is growing rapidly. And that means that perpetrators find children. These children are being victims. We are obliged, in my view, to protect these children.

DOS SANTOS: For more than a decade, law enforcement agencies across Europe like Europol have been able to work with technology firms to scan social media websites and online communications for evidence of child pornography.

INSPECTOR TIMOTHY ZAMMIT, CHAIR, EUROPEAN UNION CYBERCRIME TASK FORCE: The information that we are receiving through these types of references is a great part of our job. And through these references we've been able to identify a number of victims in our -- in our own investigations, and those will prevent further abuse to these -- to these children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are looking forward to the questions and answers.

DOS SANTOS: But now, a debate of the EU privacy rules could change that. On one side, the EU Commission wants to maintain the status quo and has proposed a temporary piece of legislation that would allow tech companies to continue screening online platforms.

JOHANSSON: This is about protecting children. It's not that they are into reading everything that somebody is -- texting on -- on the platforms.

DOS SANTOS: On the other hand, some members of the European Parliament, like Patrick Breyer, say the screening is a breach of privacy that could be opened to abuse itself.

PATRICK BREYER, MEMBER OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT (GREENS/EFA): Examining and searching the content of everybody's digital correspondence is as if the post office were just opening all of our letters. All it may achieve is that criminals will be using encrypted channels instead.

[04:45:00]

DOS SANTOS: Last month, the actor and tech investor Ashton Kutcher waded into the debate.

ASHTON KUTCHER, ACTOR, CO-FOUNDER, THORN.ORG: If it was your kid that was being sexually abused, and it was their content that was being shared on the internet, and you knew that tech companies had the ability to identify and remove that content, or even prevent the abuse from happening, but a law was standing in the way from you providing your kid with a better life. Would you be OK with that?

DOS SANTOS: For police fighting cybercrime across the EU, losing a tool they say is vital at a pivotal time is deeply concerning.

(on camera): So how would life-change on a day-to-day basis for police forces across the EU who didn't have this ability to screen communications? ZAMMIT: The reality is that we will have to wait for reports to come in or else employ other proactive measures and other -- and other exercises that are already in play.

DOS SANTOS (voice-over): The matter will come to a head on Monday with a vote on how to proceed. If no compromise is reached, by default, screening will stop before the end of December, with implications for millions of children across the EU and elsewhere in the world.

Nina dos Santos, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: As Nina mentioned, celebrity Ashton Kutcher is joining this fight against online child abuse. Earlier, my colleague, Robyn Curnow, spoke to the actor about why he got involved in an EU debate and what's at stake.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KUTCHER: I've spent countless hours working with lawmakers, working with technology companies, working with other NGOs, trying to find the best solutions in this space. And, you know, as this piece of legislation came up and was meeting resistance, it just became extraordinarily frustrating to me. One, that I think lawmakers weren't fully aware of the breadth of the issue. And secondly, you know, this isn't an EU issue. That the Internet is a global tool.

So children that are being abused in the United States, their content could be being shared in Europe. Children that are being abused in Europe, their content could be being shared in the United States. And so this is a global issue.

And as the EU makes a very critical decision on how this is going to be legislated, it's going to affect the rest of the world. It's going to affect all of us. And -- and frankly, I don't understand anyone that isn't -- that has children and cares about children that isn't interested in this issue and taking it on, because it's your kid's lives.

ROBYN CURNOW, CNN ANCHOR: What happens if this is stalled? If there is no solution?

KUTCHER: Well, here's the thing. This has to pass on December 21. So, let me just scale the issue for you. So the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children received 16 million reports last year. That's 16 million reports. Of each of those reports, that's 69 million files. It's 69 million pieces of evidence, of children being sexually abused, molested and raped. Some of these kids are toddlers. Even as young as infants, prepubescent children. It's -- these are evidence of their rape.

So if this doesn't pass, what we're talking about, we can do the quick math. It's the 69 million divided by 12, we're looking at 5.8 million files. Government moves slow, and they negotiate slowly, and we all understand that. And this needs to be legislated very carefully because privacy is important.

But for every month that goes by, that's 5.8 million pieces of evidence of children being sexually abused, molested, and raped, that go dark. It goes black. And if it takes them two months, that's 11.6 million pieces of evidence. And if it takes them three months and on and on and on. That these are vital clues that help us identify these children and bring them to safety.

And if this interim legislation doesn't happen, those -- those clues are gone. They're in the dark. Nobody can see them. We can't find those kids. So that's what happens.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: And that was Ashton Kutcher. He says he doesn't believe privacy should be a concern because the legislation is designed to pinpoint exploitation. And he believes abuse of the law by tech companies can be regulated.

[04:50:00]

Coming up next, some much needed Christmas cheer. We'll show you where some are finding in the holiday's brightest symbols from a safe distance.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Overcrowding has forced a Christmas market in Nottingham, England, to close just one day after opening. As you can see in this video, few masks are being worn and no social distancing is in place. Nottingham is under tier 3 COVID restrictions. Those are the toughest that can be imposed.

Many famous Christmas markets across Europe have been cancelled because of the pandemic. So where do you find some holiday comfort during this pandemic. Pope Francis says you only need to look at the great symbols of Christmas all over the world.

Paula Newton shows us some of the sights and scenes of the season.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[04:55:00]

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Let there be light. In a year of sickness and quarantine, the radiance of an illuminated Christmas tree, like this one in Manger Square in Bethlehem, is good for the soul.

There may be fewer crowds because of the pandemic, but Pope Francis may have said it best, overlooking the tree in St. Peter's Square.

"They are symbols of hope," he says, "especially in this difficult time."

The scenes of the season are a soothing reminder of that. St. Mark's Square in Venice was a cascade of golden light in a modern twist on the traditional tree.

The artist says, "My purpose is to light up this town, which needs light, which needs your emotions."

A dazzling drive-through in Brazil provides a thrill for the children and a respite for adults, in a country where so many families have been shattered by the virus.

"To have an event like this where you're safe," one visitor says, "to not get out of your car, it's really great."

A museum in Spain tried a mix of both naughty and nice with this nativity display, where even the angels are wearing masks and social distancing.

The decorations may be different, but the message is the same. This truly is a time where we all need a little comfort and joy. And there's room for some cheer, even in 2020.

Paula Newton, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: And thank you so much for your company. I'm Rosemary Church. "EARLY START" is up next. You're watching CNN. Do stay with us. Have a great day.

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