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Hospitalizations Soar to Record Levels Ahead of the Holidays; Two Cases of Allergic Reaction After Getting Pfizer Vaccine; FDA Advisory Committee Meets Tomorrow to Review Pfizer Vaccine Data; Supreme Court Rejects GOP's Attempt to Overturn Pennsylvania's Election Results; Texas Attorney General Sues 4 Battleground States Over Election Results; Futures Remain Flat Amid Stimulus Negotiations. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 09, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:21]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Very good Wednesday morning to you, I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow.

Just 24 hours from right now a pivotal meeting to approve the Pfizer COVID vaccine as this nation shatters once again COVID records. Right now 200,000 more Americans a day are getting COVID and before we reach our first commercial break, 10 Americans could die from it. Think about that. On average that is around 100 people dying every hour and hospitalizations are now at record high numbers of nearly 105,000 people.

SCIUTTO: Yes. These are facts, these are real people. It is alarming. States are responding with tighter restrictions as cases go up and the holidays approach, and they're fighting this battle as they work on a plan for rolling out the vaccine.

Here's the good news. Officials say the vaccine could be administered within 96 hours of authorization, just four days. President-elect Biden's goal as stated yesterday is to administer 100 million vaccinations in his first 100 days in office. It's ambitious.

President Trump's focus, though, his election fight even after the Supreme Court dealt him another devastating blow of many devastating blows in court to his unfounded charges of election fraud.

HARLOW: Exactly. It's really significant. We'll get to that in a moment. But first we begin with the virus. Alexandra Field joins us this morning from Rhode Island outside of yet another field hospital being used. Yesterday it was one in Massachusetts, today Rhode Island.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Poppy and Jim, good morning to you. A bleak picture nationwide, a bleak picture here in Rhode Island, a small state that's densely populated and now has the unwanted designation of having the highest rate of new cases per capita in the nation.

Here is the big picture across the country, if you look at the last week we've seen an average now of 206,000 new cases a day and some 2200 deaths a day in that same period. That means we are now on par with where we were at the previous height of the pandemic back in April. A record that could soon be broken.

As for hospitalizations you pointed out 105,000 people across the country in hospitals with COVID, creating such a strain on America's hospitals that you've got governors in a number of states telling people they need to do more to stop the spread, implementing new restrictions. Right here in Rhode Island the governor has put the state on a two-week pause but despite that pause we're seeing cases continue to climb, that's one reason the governor has not ruled out an extension of that pause or additional restrictions.

The big concern here also has to do with the hospitals. At no other -- on no other day over the course of the pandemic have we seen as many people in Rhode Island hospitals as we are seeing this morning. That's why the state has now opened up two field hospitals including the Providence Convention Center that's just behind me. They've got a capacity for 600 beds. They don't have the staffing for that many beds, not at this point.

This is a hospital that was built to be used last spring, it wasn't needed then. As a telling sign of where we are now, Jim and Poppy, it is needed today.

SCIUTTO: That's the thing, the worst predictions may not have come to be in the spring but they may be coming to be now.

Alexandra Field, thanks very much.

HARLOW: Well, health officials in England are warning this morning that those with a, quote, "significant history of allergic reactions" should not take the Pfizer vaccine.

SCIUTTO: CNN's Cyril Vanier is live in London with the latest.

We should be clear, Cyril, we're talking here about very severe allergic reactions, are we not?

CYRIL VANIER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Yes, absolutely, Jim and Poppy. And I'm going to try to be very specific in the way I describe this obviously given the current climate around this vaccine and given what's at stake here. We know there are a lot of eyes on the U.K. rollout of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine rollout.

This is day two and we found out a little earlier this morning that on day one some of the very first Britons who got this vaccine, we're talking here about two health care workers who were among the first to receive the first shot of the vaccine, developed allergic reactions shortly after getting the jab. We are told by the NHS that they received appropriate medical treatment and have recovered. So that's the biggest, I think, thing that we need to take away from this. They were two people who had a history of severe allergic reactions,

as you say, to the point where they were carrying with them adrenaline pens. This is something that will be well known to severe allergy sufferers.

[09:05:03]

It is one of those that you can just inject in yourself at a given moment's notice. They were carrying those auto injectors with them. Now, this has caused the NHS to change their guidance on Pfizer- BioNTech vaccine as a precautionary measure they say. They say now people will be screened as to their past history of allergies and those who are significant allergy sufferers, that is to say who have suffered a significant allergy reaction to either a vaccine, food.

Those people will no longer be offered the vaccine. So it is causing a change in the rollout and I should note that Pfizer and BioNTech just a short while ago noted that they were fully cooperating with the British health authorities. They also note that this is a precautionary measure. And lastly I would say the national medical director here at the NHS has said this is fairly common with new vaccines.

SCIUTTO: OK. Cyril, thanks very much. It's important to make that distinction. Of course, we'll ask a number of experts about that as well.

HARLOW: Including our own Sanjay Gupta who is about to be with us because back here in the United States health officials are reacting, of course, to the news that the vaccine has in those two individuals, they had allergic reactions to them, they have a history of allergic reactions.

Listen to what HHS Secretary Alex Azar had to say this morning when he actually learned about the news from our colleague Alisyn Camerota.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": Does that change, do you think, anything here, including the FDA approval that's expected tomorrow?

ALEX AZAR, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: So learning of this just with you right now and so I want to make sure the FDA has an opportunity to look at that data, I'm sure that they'll be speaking with the U.K. regulators as we always do. We want to make sure that any vaccine that comes out in America has the full gold standard stamp of approval of the FDA career people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: We're joined now by CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

So, Sanjay, so good to have you here because we don't want to under or overstate what this means because, of course, this vaccine was tested among tens of thousands of participants without serious problems. So what do we know? Who specifically, right, do we believe might be affected by this and what does it mean bigger picture for this vaccine?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, this is -- you know, it's unfolding real time so this investigation is ongoing and it's worth pointing out as Cyril did that the two people who had these reactions, they're doing fine, they've totally recovered. This was in people who had severe history of allergic reaction, so serious that they carried an EpiPen with them just to give you some context.

The precautionary guidance now and I think it's precautionary guidance from NHS is that people with a severe history -- severe allergic history to foods, to medicines, to other vaccines should not get this vaccine. Now, when we look back at the Pfizer data there is a couple things that really jumped out at me. One is that if you look at the trial participants, they excluded people within the trials that had a severe adverse reaction to vaccines in the past.

So some of what we're seeing here we're probably seeing for the first time as this vaccine starts to get rolled out more and more. Even having excluded people with adverse reactions there were people still within the trial that had allergic reactions and interestingly it didn't differ that much between the placebo group and the vaccinated group. All that to say that we don't know exactly what prompted this allergic reaction.

If you think about the flu shot, you think eggs, for example. With this, is it something that's actually, you know, part of the production process or is it part of the cold storage process? Was it something else entirely? That's going to be part of the investigation as well. And the guidance may change. They may say something like it's not that we're just going to stop everyone who's had a severe allergic reaction from getting the vaccine but maybe they pretreat with Benadryl or something like that.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GUPTA: So, you know, we're seeing this unfold real time. Typically, you know, when I report on your program it's based on years of data. We have hours of data right now.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GUPTA: And we'll get more, I think, over the next several days.

HARLOW: It's a great point and speaks to how quickly this is all progressed.

Sanjay, tomorrow huge day, 24 hours from now, the FDA meets in this country to basically decide, right, are we going to give the approval to the Pfizer vaccine that the U.K. gave? Obviously they are going to be looking at this new allergic reaction stuff by the U.K. What do we expect on that front and also could we know by the end of tomorrow if the Pfizer vaccine is approved in the U.S.? GUPTA: I think we very well could. I mean, you know, the authorization

process, you know, in terms of the review has begun some time ago back on November 20th. I talked to Stephen Hahn, the FDA commissioner, he says the FDA scientists have essentially been reviewing this data for the last couple of weeks. So there may be a consensus quickly if not tomorrow the next day probably in terms of whether this is authorized or not. And it looks very promising.

[09:10:04]

I think what's going to be interesting and what I'm looking for, we know the big headlines. It appears to be 90 percent plus effective at preventing COVID-19. Did it work better in certain groups versus others, if you are older versus younger, if you have certain preexisting conditions, if you are a man versus a woman, certain races, that sort of thing? And are there certain groups of people that should not get the vaccine?

When I look at the data, you know, people under the age of 16, pregnant women, people who are immunocompromised, they may be excluded from this at least this first round of vaccines. Those are some of the things I'm going to be looking for.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GUPTA: And then a fundamental point that we've talked about on your show before is that let's say there's 40 million doses by the end of the month, does that mean 40 million people get their first shot or are they going to give 20 million people the first shot and keep 20 million in the refrigerator for three or four weeks and then give that? We don't know the answer to that and you're hearing different things from different people so far on that.

SCIUTTO: Yes. As you noted on this program, 21 million or so health care workers. I want to ask you this because Secretary Azar made quite an ambitious hopeful comment that by March perhaps large segments of the population outside of those special groups could have access to the vaccine. I mean, that's earlier than many of the other predictions. Do you find that too hopeful? Realistic?

GUPTA: Well, you know, we've been talking to lots of people within Operation Warp Speed and within the vaccine makers themselves. I think it's really predicated on something that we could see next month, end of January perhaps, and that is other vaccines coming online. We focused a lot on Pfizer for tomorrow, Moderna next Thursday. Two other trials that we've really been keeping a close eye on are Johnson & Johnson and Oxford/AstraZeneca.

Phase three trials they're in now. If they start to show significant data and, you know, part of collecting the data means that you're seeing a lot of people become infected within the trial in the placebo group, given that there's so much infection circulating right now, you can get to those numbers more quickly. So we may see data, all that to say, may see data by the end of January and possibly have two more vaccines come online. If we do, then I think we probably get to those numbers of 100 million

people possibly being vaccinated in the first 100 days. If not, I think it's going to be challenging to get to those numbers just looking at the manufacturing capabilities.

HARLOW: Sanjay, the fact that the J&J vaccine, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's the one that's one dose only, right? Just seems a lot easier to get it in more people and not need to count on them to come back for a second appointment.

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, that would be ideal. They're doing two trials, one is one dose, one is two doses.

HARLOW: OK.

GUPTA: And it doesn't require the same sort of level of cold storage as either, so that would be a significant, you know -- that would take out a lot of barriers to people getting this, especially in more remote locations. And, you know, some of the early data has looked very promising as well. You know, we heard about Oxford/AstraZeneca showing on average about 70 percent efficacy.

Everybody is going to say we want 90 percent plus now, we set the bar pretty high, but 70 percent is pretty good. And so, you know, we may hear that kind of data out of both Oxford/AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson.

HARLOW: OK.

SCIUTTO: Listen, the direction is good. Right? Invariably questions but the direction is good and I suppose we should take some confidence in that.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks very much.

GUPTA: OK. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, President Trump directly appealed to the Supreme Court for help in his campaign to overturn the election based on unsubstantiated election fraud. Instead those justices delivered a near fatal blow to his efforts.

HARLOW: That's right. Also, where stimulus talks stand this morning with the financial security of millions of Americans hanging in the balance.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00]

HARLOW: Welcome back. President Trump hopes to -- or his hopes to try to use the Supreme Court to try to overturn a free and fair election gets an undeniable, unanimous rebuke.

SCIUTTO: Yes -- HARLOW: The high court rejected a request from Pennsylvania

Republicans to block certification of Joe Biden's victory in the state.

SCIUTTO: CNN's John Harwood is at the White House. And John, the president very publicly had expressed those hopes, even applied a little pressure you might say, and those three justices that he appointed, imagining they would come to his rescue here over the law, perhaps. Didn't happen.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, Jim, this is a hopeless cause for the president at this point. You would say that this repudiation by the Supreme Court is a death blow to his chances for overturning an election. But in reality, it's more the Supreme Court looking at a corpse in the street and affirming, yes, it actually is dead. Very simple one-sentence repudiation, the application for injunctive relief presented to Justice Alito and referred to the rest of the court is denied.

No dissents from any of the six conservatives on the court, three of whom were appointed by President Trump, but I've got to tell you the -- what is especially alarming is the president's reaction to that this morning.

The president tweeted, "well, this was not my case. The big one is in Texas", and he said, we will be intervening in the Texas case. That case is so preposterous when you talk to constitutional lawyers that it is -- the fact that he is associating himself with it resolves a bit of the question that people have been debating in the recent days as the president has been spreading these lies.

One, is he simply lying in order to extract money from his followers for future political endeavors and have a cause? And he is certainly doing that or is he crazy enough to believe this stuff? The fact that he would associate himself with this case which is going nowhere suggests that he may actually be off his rocker, and when he -- after he tweeted this morning that we will be intervening, George Conway, the conservative lawyer who is married to Kellyanne Conway, his aide, who has left the White House said, you need a very different kind of intervention.

[09:20:00]

And that's where we are right now, guys.

HARLOW: This is happening in real life. John Harwood, thank you. Ben Ginsberg is here with us now, he is not only a preeminent expert on election law, he is prominent -- the most prominent Republican election lawyer. I just think it's important to remind people of that all the time.

Ben, where you're coming from on this. This is the decision, this is the Supreme Court. People can't read this. This is one line. This is unanimous, and they said the application for injunctive relief presented to the justice, to Justice Alito and by him referred to the court is denied. It was so swift and so decisive. What does it tell you?

BEN GINSBERG, ELECTION LAWYER: Well, it tells you this is the most elegant and definitive way you tell somebody you're just so wrong that don't bother us with this stuff. And my guess is that will be the court's attitude with the Texas action as well.

SCIUTTO: Let's talk about that Texas case because it is unusual to say the least, in that you have one state here, Texas, challenging how four other states are running their elections -- and we should remind people in this country, states basically run elections. What is the legal basis for that, if any, and do you expect the Supreme Court to take this up in any way?

GINSBERG: I think there's no basis for it. I don't think the Supreme Court for an instant will consider taking up this case. And what it shows you, I think, Jim, is that how far the Republican Party has sort of corroded in basic beliefs under Donald Trump in this area. Used to be that the party was for states' rights. I can't imagine something that is least faithful to a principle of states' rights than a Texas Attorney General trying to tell other states how to run their elections.

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: That's such a good point that I hadn't thought of. I mean, I know it's rare for the Supreme Court to intervene in like a state's Supreme Court decision like Pennsylvania, but the broader point about all of these states, it's a very good one.

Speaking of Pennsylvania, the Republican outgoing senator there, Pat Toomey used very harsh words to comment on the president's actions, calling them completely unacceptable and saying the president should give up trying to get legislatures to overturn the results of the elections in their respective states.

Again, you are the most prominent Republican election expert. Where are the other Republicans? There's Toomey and Kinzinger and where is everyone else?

GINSBERG: Yes, it's a little bit of a distressing case. I mean, I think the real world answer to that is that they're focused on the January 5th runoff elections in Georgia that determine which party runs the chamber. That's a difficult vote dynamic because you need to bring the president's supporters, people who probably just voted because Donald Trump was on the ballot, and without those voters Republicans aren't going to win.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this because big picture what happened here, and I suppose this should give people some confidence, right, is that the courts have flatly rejected the president's unfounded claims of election fraud. Regardless of party, right?

I mean, you have Republican-appointed judges, Democratic-appointed judges, and crucially Trump appointed judges both at lower courts and in the highest court rejecting this out of hand. For folks who have been watching this at home, perhaps some of the most nervousness, what message should they take from that?

GINSBERG: I think the main message to take is while the president is engaging in an assault on the basic democratic principles of elections, in fact, America takes great strengths from the people who know what their duties are under that system. So very Republican judges have --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

GINSBERG: Dealt with the law as it should be, Republican elected officials under tremendous political pressures in the states have held firm to their duties and to what the law is. And so after what amounts to five weeks of incredible tumultuous churn, the institutions of the country are holding solid and this sort of unsupportable crusade that Donald Trump is on --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

GINSBERG: Is being put in its proper place by all those people.

SCIUTTO: We always try to look for silver-linings on this show, then we found one -- that's it --

(LAUGHTER)

As you're having your morning coffee, folks at home. Ben Ginsberg, always good to have you on.

GINSBERG: Thanks. Good to be here.

SCIUTTO: Well, President-elect Joe Biden lays out his three-point plan on how to combat the growing coronavirus pandemic. This as CNN learns that he will nominate more cabinet members as early as today. We're going to have the new details.

[09:25:00]

HARLOW: We are also moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. Taking a look at futures here, pretty mixed here at the open. Investors keeping a close eye on Capitol Hill as a bipartisan group of senators still trying to get a deal on stimulus. They're supposed to release a summary of the plan today, we'll have much more on those negotiations ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX AZAR, SECRETARY, HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES: If everything is on track, it could be a matter of days that FDA approves the vaccine. We would then authorize shipment within 24 hours.