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FDA Holds Meeting on Vaccine Tomorrow as Cases, Deaths Rise; Biden to Introduce Historic Pick for Defense Secretary. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 09, 2020 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:02]

JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS: Thank you for your time today as well. I hope to see you back here this time tomorrow.

Brooke Baldwin picks up our coverage right now. Have a good day.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN RIGHT NOW: John, thank you. Hi there. You're watching CNN on this Wednesday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

Just a heads-up to all of you in a couple of moments, President-elect Joe Biden will introduce the man he has nominated to be the next secretary of defense, retired Army General Lloyd Austin. If confirmed, General Austin would become the first African-American to lead the Pentagon. But his nomination faces some resistance within Biden's own party because General Austin is only recently retired, requiring a congressional waiver for him to take the job.

Turning to the fight against coronavirus, this afternoon, the U.S. is closer to getting a vaccine to the people who need it the most. The U.S. is shattering its positive-case records, averaging more than 200,000 new cases each and every day. Nearly 105,000 Americans are in the hospital today, another discouraging record. And just yesterday, 2,546 people died from COVID.

These numbers make tomorrow's FDA meeting to consider giving emergency use authorization for the Pfizer vaccine even more pivotal. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar is predicting a rapid rollout once the doses are green lit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX AZAR, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: If everything is on track, it could be a matter of days that FDA approves the vaccine. We would then authorize shipment within 24 hours.

20 million people should get vaccinated in just the next several weeks. And then we'll just keep rolling out vaccines through January, February, March, as they come off the production lines. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Canada has just granted emergency use authorization for Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine there. It is now the second nation, behind the U.K., to do so.

CNN's Alexandra Field is live in Rhode Island for us this afternoon, where a convention center has turned now into a field hospital. So, Alex, tell us a little more about the field hospital and are patients already being admitted?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are, Brooke. They have taken in about 50 patients as they opened their doors about a week.

What's really interesting is that this convention center was actually built out as a field hospital last spring, at the start of the pandemic and at the time that we thought we were seeing the height of the pandemic. It wasn't put to use back then. It wasn't needed. It was needed until now. Because, today, this morning, there were more people with COVID in Rhode Island hospital beds than at any other time over the course of the pandemic.

This is a small state. It is a densely populated state. It now also has the designation of being the state with the highest number of new cases of COVID per capita. That is the fight they are battling here. That's the reason that they need this convention center. It has some 600 beds in it. It is meant to take the pressure off of hospitals that are feeling the strain of having so many patients hospitalized.

This is a place where they are putting people who don't need ICU-level care. They are able to do that kind of work in the hospitals. But this is a place where they can send more patients. The problem they might run into here, the problem we might see at field hospitals across the country is the fact that there is already a strain on hospital workers, on healthcare workers, these critical, frontline workers. They're needed in the hospitals. In some cases, they have infection themselves. In some cases, they have to quarantine because of possible exposure.

So while you could potentially put 600 patients in this facility, you would also need the staff to accommodate them. We have heard calls in this state and around the country for people with medical experience to step forward, to volunteer, to perhaps come out of retirement. So, those are all things we'll be looking at, down the line, here in Rhode Island.

But, Brooke, what is also concerning in the state of Rhode Island is that we are seeing these cases continue to accelerate, to climb, at a time when more restrictions are in place. Rhode Island's governor did put a two-week pause into effect. That increased the level of restrictions on people here because of the situation and because of the trajectory that this state is now on. The governor has said that additional restrictions or extended restrictions are not off the table, similar in a lot of states Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes, I'm sure we'll be seeing more of these field hospitals popping up. The difference than the spring and summer is it's also just cold. So that's a whole other complication. Alex Field, thank you very much, in Rhode Island.

Back to this FDA meeting. If the FDA grants the emergency use of the Pfizer vaccine tomorrow, within 24 hours, trucks with the vaccine will be rolling out to airports. That is according to the deputy chief of logistics for Operation Warp Speed. And the Pentagon says, for the approximate 44,000 doses designated for the defense departments, the teams are ready.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS MCCAFFERY, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR HEALTH AFFAIRS: Once that committee issues its final recommendation for our 16 sites, we are comfortable, we are confident, within 24 to 48 hours from that advisory committee decision, we will actually have shots in arms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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BALDWIN: Pentagon officials say that all vaccinations will be voluntary, but that is the military community. What about civilians?

CNN's Sara Murray is with me now. And so, Sara, how ready are states to administer these vaccinations?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Brooke, the states basically say they feel as ready as they can be with the caveat that they don't know exactly how many doses they're going to be getting. They don't know exactly what day those doses are going to arrive. And they know they may have to adjust the plan, as they kind of learn how this is all going to go down.

But, look, in a sign of just how close we are getting, Operation Warp Speed officials are briefing right now, and they said, today, they are starting to send out the supplies that go along with the vaccine, the syringes, the needles, the alcohol wipes, face masks, so, essentially, everything except the actual vaccine you will need.

Now, if you are a member of the general population, you still have a little bit of a wait ahead. Here is what Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar had to say about that timeline today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AZAR: You should start seeing at points in February and March general population vaccinations occurring. What we've said is we expect that in the second quarter of next year, we'd have enough vaccine for all Americans that want it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Now, we will see if that timeline holds or if it ends up being overly optimistic. You know, we know that at the first -- at the beginning of the line, this is going to start with healthcare workers. It's going to start with folks who are living in these long-term, assisted-living homes.

And if we look at the calendar, we are closing in on these dates. Tomorrow is the day the FDA advisory committee meets. They are going to go over this Pfizer vaccine. If we get this quick authorization from the FDA, we could look at this vaccine going out within 24 to 48 hours after that meeting.

Again, this is only an estimate. We're still waiting on the FDA to actually authorize the Pfizer vaccine. And then Moderna is right on its heels. You know, the 17th is when this FDA advisory committee meets to go over the Moderna vaccine. And, again, the timeline there is still an estimate. But December 22nd, possibly even sooner than that, we could have the Moderna vaccine also going out to states. It's coming, Brooke. It's coming.

BALDWIN: I know. I hear all your caveats. They are real. We're going to -- they're going to have to roll with it. But, listen, at least hopefully by the end of this month, we will have two different vaccines green lit and ready to roll. Sara Murray, thank you for the -- just all of that, the context of everything.

Let me just open this conversation up. Joining me now is Emergency Room Dr. Leana Wen. She is former health commissioner for Baltimore, and also CNN Medical Analyst. So, Dr. Wen, welcome back.

Let's assume, if I may, that all goes well tomorrow and we do see the FDA approve the first vaccines here in the U.S., how quickly can it reach the first person's arm?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It could reach the first person's arm very quickly, because we already have distribution sites that are set up all across the country. They are in hospitals, for example, that are ready to go, as soon as they get the authorization. And so, maybe, even by next week, we might be able to see the first shots in arms of the Pfizer vaccine.

All that said, there are still a lot of steps moving forward in terms of distribution to a broader number of people.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about the two things that you wrote about in your Washington Post opinion piece that could severely derail vaccine efforts, you say, unless we prepare for them now, number one, being side effects. You talked to one participant who also happens to be an M.D. and he told you he took the vaccine, he got chills, a headache, was so fatigued, he actually fell asleep on the couch mid-afternoon, and woke up the next morning drenched in sweat and said to you, these symptoms are no joke. Is this normal?

WEN: It is, and I think that's what's the most important thing to emphasize to people in advance, that side effects are normal, they are expected. Actually, they are a sign that the vaccine is working because it is mounting our immune system.

And that's why they are seeing this kind of response. But if we don't educate patients about this in advance, you can imagine, somebody might be very scared if they get severe fatigue to the point that they have to be sleeping for the whole day. And they might even end up in the E.R. and overtaxing our healthcare system. It might also discourage others from getting the vaccine.

And so, I wrote about the side effects because the side effects are not the problem. Lack of education about it is. And downplaying the side effects actually will completely backfire. And, in fact, we need to be doing all the public education now about what to expect, that things are normal about what to do if people do get side effects. And also, to say that side effects happen, they are minor though and very and totally incomparable to actually getting coronavirus and being ill and potentially spreading it to others.

BALDWIN: The other piece though of this, which is much more grim, is that you point out people will die of other causes, but that those deaths might be wrongly attributed to the vaccine. How do you mean?

WEN: So, one of the two priority groups that will get the vaccine first are people in nursing homes who tend to be older and are medically frail with chronic medical illnesses. In that population, whether the time period of several months, let's say, some people are going to get sick and some people are going to die, not from coronavirus or the vaccine but totally unrelated to it.

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For example, they may die from heart disease or lung disease. If there is a temporal correlation, if somebody ends up getting the vaccine and dying soon after but from something totally unrelated, that could fuel conspiracy theories.

And so, it's important for us to benchmark what the death rates are in advance and also to investigate every adverse event, every possible adverse event and be totally transparent with the American people. Because if we have misinformation or there is a void of information, disinformation could fill that void.

BALDWIN: What about old, young, in between, you know, people with allergic reactions? We've learned in the clinical trials that Pfizer excluded people with a history of severe allergic reactions to vaccines. We are just now hearing from these two frontline workers in the U.K. who got the vaccine, have allergic reactions. How should Pfizer go about this? And what if someone does have reaction to vaccines, does that mean they just never get the shot?

WEN: Yes. So allergic reactions are very rare but they do happen. And something that's very rare, when you give a vaccine to hundreds of millions of people, it's going to end up being not so rare because so many people are getting it.

And so I think it's really important to investigate why is it that these two healthcare workers in this case in the U.K. got this allergic reaction, what component of the vaccine are they allergic to. Because, then, we can better advise people on who is high risk and who should be getting the vaccine, or perhaps they are pre-meditated in advance, perhaps they are watched in a particular setting to get it. Allergic reaction is not a reason not to go forward with the vaccine but it does mean that further study is important. And, again, I cannot overemphasize the importance of transparency and disclosure.

BALDWIN: Lastly, the holidays are upon us. The White House task force warns states against December holiday gatherings after seeing what happened this past Thanksgiving. And then, yet, you had the Health and Human Services secretary, Alex Azar, saying, you know, he's already gone to a Christmas party at the White House. Watch this clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AZAR: Well, I actually have already attended one of them. And individuals, most of the individuals, around me were wearing masks. We worked to keep distance. There was dramatically lower number of people than in past years. So I felt comfortable there. I felt safe. I wore my mask, of course, at all times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Dr. Wen, let's be real. I don't know about you but any holiday parties I've ever been to, you know, in my past, has involved food and a little bit of alcohol. And we're not good, on a good day, all wearing masks. And so, you know, if people are going to holiday gatherings, what are we supposed to be doing?

WEN: Yes. So, I was appalled when I heard that clip from Secretary Azar because we expect for the secretary of Health and Human Services to be setting the example --

BALDWIN: The guidelines.

WEN: -- for the country. That's exactly right. And how am I, now, supposed to be telling my patients to avoid indoor, holiday gatherings with their loved ones, who they are also desperate to see, if the secretary of Health and Human Services is not following that example?

And so I really hope that the American people will listen to the guidance of public health experts who are saying, unequivocally, we are going to see a surge right now after Thanksgiving. Our hospitals are already overwhelmed.

We need everyone's help to help flatten that curve and to prevent our hospitals from total collapse. And indoor gatherings, where people don't -- are not wearing masks, are gathered for long periods of time, it's really dangerous. It's very high risk for spreading the virus. We should not be going to those indoor gatherings in our homes or at the White House.

BALDWIN: You should be talking the talk, walking the walk, and we all have to be super careful this Christmas. Dr. Wen, thank you very much for all of that. Good to have you on.

Just a reminder to all of you, any moment now, we are watching and waiting to see President-elect Joe Biden. He will be introducing his historic pick for defense secretary. There is already, though, division among Democrats. We will have those details, ahead.

And the Supreme Court has issued yet another blow to President Trump's efforts to overturn the presidential election but Republicans are still supporting the charade.

And can you be forced to get the COVID vaccine? Guess what? A lot of employers are looking into it. We'll talk to a lawyer.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

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BALDWIN: All right, we are back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being here.

At any moment, we will be seeing President-elect Joe Biden. He will be introducing his historic pick for secretary of defense. General Lloyd Austin who, if confirmed, would be the first black man to lead the Pentagon.

General Austin, though, does not meet the law requiring a defense secretary to have been out of active duty service for seven years before taking this top civilian post. So, unless he is granted a waiver, the general will be unable to move forward with the confirmation process.

Let's start our coverage here with CNN Senior Washington Correspondent Jeff Zeleny, who is live there in Wilmington, where that announcement will be taking place.

And so, Jeff, we -- we're counting. There are already a number of Democratic lawmakers who are saying, you know, they respect the general, but that they will not grant the waiver. What has Joe Biden said about this concern?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, this certainly is something that the Biden transition team is, you know, working very hard on. They are reaching out, we're told, to a hundred members of the House and Senate trying to work them through this, and essentially trying to convince them to vote for the waiver. \ But this is what President-elect Biden said directly in an op-ed in The Atlantic, really making the case for why he believes a waiver is necessary. And we should point out, this is because the U.S. has civilian leadership of the military, that is why this exists.

This is what Joe Biden said.

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I hope that Congress will grant a waiver to Secretary Designate Austin just as Congress did for Secretary Jim Mattis. Given the immense and urgent threats and challenges our nation faces, he should be confirmed swiftly. The fact is, Mr. Biden goes on to say, Austin's many strengths and his intimate knowledge of the Department of Defense and our government are uniquely material to the challenges and crises we face. He is the person we need in this moment.

So, that is what Joe Biden's argument is here. I believe that we will hear that momentarily when he introduces General Austin and says why he picked him. And the reason for why is he would be a barrier- breaking pick at the Pentagon, for sure. He also has a deep connection with the retired general. He's known him for many years. General Austin knew his son, Beau Biden, of course. So, that is what we are seeing shape this cabinet pick.

But, so, yes, it is a hurdle, no question about it. But Senator Jack Reid, the top Democrat on the Arm Services Committee, he, of course, said he would never vote for a waiver again, back in 2017. He said, look, I am going to hear him out. That's what this process is for. So, he wants to hear General Austin make the case, himself, for it. So, I think it's, very much, an open question if he gets through. But the history-making nature of this, I think, makes it pretty difficult for some Democrats and others to vote against it in the end, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Jeff, thank you so much. And I just want to broaden out this conversation about this historic nomination. Here with me, CNN Senior Political Reporter Nia-Malika Henderson, CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr and CNN Military and Diplomatic Analyst, retired Rear Admiral John Kirby. So, welcome to all of you.

And, Barbara Starr, let me just begin with you. You know, why -- why did President-elect Biden select General Austin? Can you take us back? How did they first meet?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, as Jeff said, we know that they have met since they both served in the Obama administration. General Austin, very well-known, during those days, when he served in Iraq and Afghanistan, closed out the Iraq War, essentially, in 2011, and went on to lead Central Command.

So, a lot of his experience that President-elect Biden is familiar with really does center around the Middle East. But that is a point of interest in itself, because, look, those days of war against ISIS, war against Al Qaeda, the Trump administration urgently trying to wrap that up and move on.

Austin, if confirmed, will come into office with different Middle East concerns. And I would think that the question of Iran and Iran getting nuclear weapon might be one of the very first, major concerns that Austin will have to deal with from a very high level, working with others in a Biden administration who have to develop options for President Biden. He'll have to work with his diplomatic and economic counterparts in the administration and try and do what they can to ensure that Iran doesn't get a nuclear weapon.

He will also have to move along and become very familiar with Russia and China and reshape $740 billion of Pentagon spending to deal with those threats, artificial intelligence, cyber. It's a world of a lot of different issues that Austin, by all accounts, is perfectly capable of dealing with but may not have dealt with when he was in the Obama administration.

BALDWIN: Not to mention, helping distribute, you know, all these vaccines, fighting this, you know, fatal pandemic. Barbara, let me come back to you.

Admiral Kirby, you, sir, it's my understanding you know him quite well. So let me ask you about this. So I was reading a piece in The Times earlier this week. This is part of their reporting. People close to the transition noted that during the Obama presidency, Mr. Biden was unhappy with the high profile of the Pentagon with generals like David H. Petraeus gaining near-rock star status and the belief that the Pentagon rolled President Barack Obama into increasing troop numbers in Afghanistan. General Austin's lower profile, those people suggested, may match with Mr. Biden's hopes for a more muted Defense Department.

I just would love your thoughts on the general as a pick, and might his reticence, if you would even use that word, in this particular role, not be an asset?

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY (RET.), CNN MMILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: Well, I think he's a great pick for secretary of defense. I do know and have known him for a long time. He is a very thoughtful leader, very, very smart.

And he thinks problems through very comprehensively. He's not afraid to look for advice and counsel from the outside to make his advice and his decisions better and richer. And I think he will be a superb secretary of defense. And I think that he will probably do it in a way that is more understated than what we've seen in the past by some former military commanders, certainly some former secretaries of defense.

And, look, the important thing is does he fit with the president- elect? It's really important that the commander in chief have in his secretary of defense somebody that he trusts, somebody that shares his world view and his policies and is willing to support that in a way that, you know, comports with their relationship.

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And it sounds to me certainly based on the reporting and what Barbara just said, that these two men do click in that way. They have a prior relationship and trust and confidence in one another and that's a real key thing starting out in the new job.

BALDWIN: Yes. I want to get to this issue of the waiver. Nia, this is for you. You know, he's only been out for four years. It should be seven. If it's not seven, it requires this waiver from Congress. A number of, you know, Democrats have already said, respect him, but, you know, not going to grant this waiver. And, of course, we remember General Jim Mattis getting a waiver and a lot of, you know, senators opposed that, at that time.

So, just to be fair, you know, give us a reality check. Like how much resistance might he face given the waiver issue? NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: You know, I think you will see resistance from the same Democrats who resisted this last go-round. If you think about what happened with Mattis in the Senate, the waiver was 81-17. 17, mostly Democrats, voted against that waiver.

But he was -- he ended up being confirmed 98-1. So, it seems like that is what you are going to see from a lot of Democrats going forward. I think Senator Tammy Duckworth has already said she is going to be consistent and vote against the waiver, like she did for Mattis, but then, vote for confirmation for Biden's pick.

And, you know, the House will be interesting too. The only reason Mattis was granted that waiver from the house was that Republicans very much backed that waiver. It wasn't the case for Democrats. So I think you will probably see a similar scenario in the House. The folks who don't like these waivers and voted against it, last go-round, will do the same this go-round.

But, listen, I think, if you're Biden, you have been rallied from the outside to have a cabinet that looks like America, and this pick certainly is in keeping with that, it's also in keeping with the reputation of the military as a barrier breaker in terms of racial politics, in terms of advancing integration, way before America was really comfortable with that. But, you have seen that, in sort of the upper ranks of the military, it hasn't been as integrated as the lower ranks.

So I think he is sending a real signal about what the military should look like, also what his cabinet should look like. This is a promise that he made and his feet have been held to the fire by people like Jim Clyburn, by, you know, NAACP folks, the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, really urging him to have a cabinet, the one that he promised. And so, I think, in this way, this pick fills that promise for this -- the president-elect.

BALDWIN: To your point, just quickly, to close the loop on the conversation, on barrier-breaking, he was the first African-American general officer to lead an army corps in combat and the first African- American to command an entire theater of war. And if confirmed, of course, he would be the first black secretary of defense.

Let me ask all of you to stand by. We'll wait for this event to begin and we'll chat again on the other side. Thank you all so much.

I want to continue with other breaking news, in the meantime, as president-elect Joe Biden, here he is, just arrived at the venue, for the secretary of defense announcement. So we will take that live and talk about that.

Also, even with the Supreme Court crushing another one of President Trump's legal challenges to overturn the election, he is not stopping. How he's rolling on with his false crusade?

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