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Trump Asks U.S. Supreme Court to Invalidate Millions of Votes; New HHS Data Shows One in Three Hospitals Nationwide Topper 90 Percent ICU Capacity; Biden Makes Choice for Head of the V.A. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired December 10, 2020 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR COMMENTATOR: And I think, over time, this has the possibility of damaging their political careers. So if I were candidate against them, I would absolutely bring this up.

And, Kate, there is another we have to think about here, and it is about -- excuse me, it's about America. You know, in America, you have the ability to go to a court on any idea you have, even if it's stupid, like this thing is. And that's one of the institutions that, you know, people have high regard for, and I hope we can keep it.

And so, you know, it's very interesting to see how the court will react and presidents put people in courts and they think they know how they're going to behave. But once you get on that court, it seems as though people decide that they need to working in the public interest, not in a narrow interest, that their personal philosophy matters but somehow they figure out a way to overcome that to make decisions that are more just for the country.

And you have got to give John Roberts an awful lot of credit for keeping that court together, but this is unconscionable. I was so angry, I was on last night talking about it, I kind of cooled off but it's just like a joke.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Just for everyone's knowledge, John Kasich's cool off is like everyone else's like 150, just so we know where we're at today.

You said the way it is, it's stupid. But you have got, at its basic, most basic you have states telling other states how to run their elections or they're trying to. And I am struck by, if that is where Republican principles and ideals are right now, where is this headed for the party.

KASICH: Wait, wait, Kate.

BOLDUAN: I am not saying -- I'm saying some Republicans.

KASICH: Wait, wait. Republican principles and ideals among these leaders went out the window about five years ago. You can't even tell me what the Republican Party stands for anymore. I really don't know. Do they have a position on health care? I haven't heard one. Do they have a position on immigration? I haven't heard one. Do they have a position on something they used to care about, which is the rising debt in America? I haven't heard one. What's their position on the environment? Ignore it. I have no idea what they're --

BOLDUAN: That's been our ongoing joke. You're the last Republican in the country that still cares about the deficit and debt. That's been, sadly, an ongoing joke that you and I have discussed.

KASICH: Kate, some people say, well, what happened to Kasich? Is he changed? No, I didn't leave the party, the party left me. I have been a free trader. I have balanced budgets. I've cut taxes. I care about people that don't have much. I care about the environment. I'm a conservative Republican. The rest of these people, they're out to lunch. Look, they can't even figure out how to pass a pandemic relief bill down there.

BOLDUAN: That's a whole -- that's something --

KASICH: And that's on both sides for that.

BOLDUAN: -- that actually -- I actually want to -- we're going to table that one because I want to have you actually back on to really drill into the stimulus. But let's see if we can talk about it tomorrow.

I want to talk -- but sticking with this moment we're at, the A.G. out of Texas, Paxton, he's under investigation, as Jessica Schneider pointed out. And Ben Ginsberg, a smart Republican election attorney that so many people leaned on, you know him well, he said this morning that this is -- this looks like it's Paxton's auditioning for a Trump pardon. Do you think that's what this is?

KASICH: I don't know. I don't want to speculation on that. Ben Ginsberg, just so everybody knows, he's a Republican who's been involved in all of these cases. But Ben left that job. He kind of sensed -- as I'm going to speculate, he kind of sensed he was going to be hauled into stuff that he didn't want to participate in so he left. He's been a guy who's pursued these cases in an appropriate way. He's a man of great integrity. But in terms of his predictions about why this guy has done this, I don't know.

But what about the other 17? Why are they joining in? What is -- the political calculus must be it's a win-win. So the case doesn't go anywhere in the court but yet I make the Trump base happy.

BOLDUAN: That's the question. That's what I care about, asking you about. What are the consequences for this, because I don't see what they are right now?

KASICH: Well, it has to be in the primary, I think, and in the general. If you were trying to obscure the results of a presidential election, where even the attorney general, who now, according to reports, some people think he'll resign early, some people think Trump will fire him because he had the gall to come out and say we haven't found any fraud.

I mean, at some point there is going to be some return to normalcy or this party, in my opinion, even though we have got all these votes based primarily on culture will begin to wither away if they don't get their act together and begin stand for something.

BOLDUAN: So, when is the big question, because it's not just the A.G.s? I'll pose one person as an example, Ted Cruz. He has now said he would argue this case before the Supreme Court on the behalf of the president, they'd take it up.

Just for everyone, a reminder of what Ted Cruz has said about the president's capacity to tell the truth in the past. This is from 2016.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): I'll tell you what I really think of Donald Trump. This man is a pathological liar.

[11:35:01]

He doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. He lies practically every word that comes out of his mouth.

The man cannot tell the truth but he combines it with being a narcissist, a narcissist at a level I don't think this country has ever seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Donald Trump loses and Ted Cruz and many Republicans are still doing what he wants. So, I mean, is this going to like go away in 40 days when he's out?

KASICH: I think that, over time -- look, it's a great debate question as to whether -- is Trump going to fade and his influence going to dwindle? I tend to think it will over time but it's not going to happen immediately.

And, look, for me I stood on the stage and watched all of this. And at the end, I didn't even go to the convention in my state and didn't endorse Donald Trump. But if he -- and, frankly, you know, I got a call from one time wanting me to support his health care plan. I said, no, I can't support it. I told you what I thought was wrong with yours.

And it's nothing -- look, I don't have any disdain for the guy, I just don't agree with him, I don't support him, I'm disappointed in what we have seen, I'm bitter about the way they rolled out the vaccine and everything else. So, look, I try not to personify my look at this person or that person, I try to keep that out of bounds. What I'm watching today though is a ridiculous merry-go-round of bankrupt morality when it comes to these people that are engaging in this lawsuit. BOLDUAN: Ridiculous is also what's happening on Capitol Hill over the stimulus. That's going to be part two of our conversation. Maybe we'll do that tomorrow. It's good to see you, thanks, Governor.

KASICH: All right, Kate. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

Coming up next, the CDC saying today that the number of coronavirus cases in the United States could be seven times greater than what has been reported.

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[11:40:00]

BOLDUAN: We have breaking news coming in. Newly released government data shows that at least 200 hospitals across the country were at full capacity last week and 90 percent of ICU beds were occupied in one- third of hospitals nationwide.

The crisis growing especially dire in California, more than 30,000 new coronavirus cases were confirmed just yesterday. That is a new record. And the number of people hospitalized with the virus is now soaring to almost 12,000 in the state. That is also a record.

And here is what L.A. County's health director is saying about what things -- where things are headed.

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BARBARA FERRER, L.A. COUNTY PUBLIC HEALTH DIRECTOR: We will bear witness to a significant rise in the number of people who are dying.

This is the most dangerous time for L.A. County.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining me right now is Dr. Ashish Jha, the Dean of the Brown University School of Public Health.

This is actually we just reported. This new government data is something you've been really focused on and concerned about, Dr. Jha, the dangerous nature of what is happening in hospitals and what it means. You also say it's a bit counterintuitive. What's going on here?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes. So, Kate, thank you for having me on. Things are really bad. What we have seen over the last few weeks is a sharp rise in infections. And what we know from the beginning of this pandemic is infections are followed by hospitalizations which are then followed by death.

And what is happening across hospitals is actually, and this is going to sound counterintuitive, the admission rate, the frequency with which people are getting admitted, is starting to fall. And it's not because all of a sudden people have gotten healthier, it's because we're running out of beds, we can't admit everybody who needs hospital care. And we're starting to see that in many places across the country. And, unfortunately, what that means is that many people will die than is necessary.

BOLDUAN: It's terrifying. That's terrifying Dr. Jha.

JHA: Yes. It's -- first, it is terrifying. It's awful. It was also completely predictable. And, unfortunately, what has happened is that our federal government, over the last two, three months, has thrown in the towel. It isn't even trying anymore to be helpful on this.

And, of course, the impact is not just on people with COVID. It's impact on anybody who needs hospital care. The hospitals are running out of beds for everybody. So, it's a much broader public health problem than just a COVID problem.

BOLDUAN: And now, to add to that, a CDC official just told the vaccine advisory panel that reported number of deaths -- cases and deaths in the United States, they believe, are wildly under estimated, saying that the total infections, he number of cases, could be two than what's been reported in terms of cases. If that is what the reality is, what does that mean?

JHA: Yes. So we've not had the kind of testing infrastructure in our country that we need since March. That means we've missed a lot of cases over time, a lot of infections. And my best bet is, right now, about 15 million Americans have been identified. That's about 5 percent of the population.

I think most of us think that the real number is probably closer 20 percent, so four times that number. There are a lot of people who have gotten infected.

[11:45:00]

And there have also been a lot of deaths that have not been classified as COVID-related, where people actually died of COVID but they never got a test because we didn't have the testing capacity we needed.

So, as awful as the numbers are that we see on the screen, they're clearly an underestimate of what's happening.

BOLDUAN: Look, if we keep seeing like 200,000 cases per day, even with that being underestimated, possibly, over like, let's say, the next month, what is it going to look like?

JHA: Yes. So, you know, we're really in this very funny moment because --

BOLDUAN: Right, because there's hope out there but we're not there.

JHA: Oh my God, four to six weeks of awfulness, we're going to have 2,000 to 3,000 deaths a day for every day, day on day, week on week, until the vaccines get start getting widely deployed. So the hope is so incredibly bright but it's just about six, eight weeks away before we start really seeing the impact of the vaccine. We got to find a way to get through these next six weeks without losing people.

One key thing I say is anybody who gets infected tomorrow and dies in three weeks, that's somebody who could have gotten vaccinated two months from now. We've got to protect people to get through the next couple of months.

BOLDUAN: Finally, I do want to ask you, Republican Senator Ron Johnson, he held another hearing on the pandemic, and, once again, Dr. Jha, chose not to focus on the proven science that you have been discussing with me but instead to focus on pushing the unproven drug, hydroxychloroquine, questioning the effectiveness of masks and social distancing, even bringing on to testify a vaccine skeptic.

I want to play you something that Senator Johnson said at this hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): I hope anybody who's written a nasty article or anybody who's read a nasty article or given a nasty opening statement, I hope they actually listen to both hearings and have an open mind and just ask themselves, why haven't we given these cheap and available and safe pharmaceuticals (INAUDIBLE) a shot at trying to stop this COVID crisis? It boggles my mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: We talked about this before, Dr. Jha. You clashed with Johnson at the very last hearing about this. He's not giving up on it.

JHA: Yes. You know, this is a strawman. We have given it a chance. It's not like no one has bothered studying hydroxychloroquine and we just rejected it out of hand, in fact, the opposite. Hydroxychloroquine was used widely and we studied it to see if it actually worked. It doesn't work.

So, peddling false hope is not what we need right now. I wish hydroxychloroquine worked, it doesn't. That's what the science said. He brought up other therapies. We have no idea if any of them work, we should study them. But until we know something works, we shouldn't be promising people that they have got these miracle therapies. That's not what's happening right now.

The medical science and the -- the medical and scientific field is trying very hard to come up with treatments, but we need science to guide us, not false hope.

BOLDUAN: And at this point in the pandemic, that's where this very critical Senate committee is focused. Doctor, thank you.

JHA: Thank you so much, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up, President-elect Joe Biden's cabinet and top staff, who he wants to lead the Department of Veterans Affairs, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [11:50:00]

BOLDUAN: President-elect Joe Biden is announcing more nominees for his cabinet today, including who he wants to lead Department of Veterans Affairs. The choice is another familiar face who is also no stranger to the inner workings of the White House.

CNN's Jessica Dean is in Wilmington, Delaware, and joining us now. And, Jessica, tell us about Biden's pick for the VA.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Biden has tapped Denis McDonough to lead -- for so many of the reasons you just listed, Kate -- to President Obama and Biden has a longstanding relationship with him. Again, that's a theme we have seen time and time again throughout this process, that he continues to go back to people that he knows, feels comfortable with and has a longstanding relationship with, and McDonough certainly fills that role.

The Department of Veterans Affairs is one of the most challenging agencies and they really wanted someone that knew how to pull the levers of government, understood the bureaucracy, knew how to work through a lot of the challenges that they will face while leading the Department of Veterans Affairs. And they really felt like McDonough fit the bill on that.

So he has been tapped to lead that agency. And we are expecting to be introduced to him and others at an event in Wilmington tomorrow, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Another familiar face joining Biden's team will be former ambassador to the U.N., Susan Rice, they're just announcing. She's taking up a domestic role this time though. Tell us more about it.

DEAN: Again, this is another person that fits into that box, longstanding relationship with Joe Biden and immense trust between the two of them. Susan Rice, of course, served as national security adviser during the Obama Administration and was in the mix for potential vice president, but also to potentially be the secretary of state. And now we see her landing as director of the Domestic Policy Council.

And we're really told that that is going to be focused on Biden's domestic policy, of course, goes without saying, but that's about build back better. Heard him talk about that on the campaign trail, and that's his entire agenda. It includes -- it touches climate change, clean energy.

[11:55:00]

So there's a lot they want to do.

Again, they wanted someone who understood the inner workings of the government, someone who had been there, who understands how all the pieces fit together, and for them, that was Susan Rice. And she will be there again at that event tomorrow. She will be introduced again at that event tomorrow, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Jessica, thank you.

Still ahead, the FDA panel considering the authorization of the Pfizer vaccine is about to hear directly from Pfizer on their data. Stay with us.

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