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FDA Decision on Pfizer Vaccine Imminent as COVID Cases Surges; FedEx and UPS Prep for Vaccine Delivery While Awaiting FDA Green Light; Government on Brink of Shutdown as Senate Fails to Pass Bill; Hundred-Plus GOP Representatives Back Texas Suit to Undo Election Results in 4 States; Airlines Play Critical Role in Distributing COVID Vaccine Worldwide. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 11, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:03]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Very good Friday morning to you. It is Friday. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow.

This morning we are all on stand by for the FDA's final decision to push Pfizer's COVID vaccine forward. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar says the FDA informed the drug maker they do plan to proceed toward authorization, but before shots can actually go into arms a CDC advisory panel meets and sets up a final vote, that is expected on Sunday, then it is all systems go. Tens of millions of Americans will start getting doses in just days.

SCIUTTO: Listen, this is good news. It is a major moment in this months' long pandemic, but patients required still. Health experts warn the next few months sadly will be some of the ugliest. The CDC director warning that we will see more Americans die every single day going forward than on 9/11. And dark times are already here for health care facilities across this country. ICU beds are running out. At least 200 hospitals, 200 across this country, are now completely full.

Let's begin with CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

And Doctor, history made yesterday. I mean, in historical terms extremely fast progress in terms of getting to early approval for a vaccine. Just in general terms, describe for folks the importance of that moment.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, it is historic. I mean, you know, I'll be honest, I didn't think we'd be having this conversation this year. Just in terms of the speed of this it's pretty remarkable. Eight months from the time the genetic sequence for this virus was identified to the actual application for an Emergency Use Authorization and everything looks very favorable.

What happened yesterday was this advisory committee basically recommended that this vaccine now be authorized by the FDA. So that process is not done yet. We can show you the timetable. I mean, the authorization from the FDA seems pretty much like a foregone conclusion at this point and the commissioner of the FDA, Stephen Hahn, has telegraphed as much. I've talked to him a couple of days ago about this.

There's another committee, this one's with the CDC. So FDA authorizes something, CDC then officially recommends it and may recommend it with caveats, certain groups getting it, certain groups not. The CDC then officially accepts those recommendations and then if all of that goes as planned, which, again, looks very favorable, I don't want to get ahead of ourselves here, but it looks very good, then early next week the vaccine will actually start going into people.

The vaccine will be distributed pretty quickly after the Emergency Use Authorization is actually granted. Planes and trains and all that will start to leave Kalamazoo, Michigan. Pete Muntean has been talking about this but they'll go all around the country and be in place for early next week.

HARLOW: Sanjay, the vote yesterday was not unanimous, which is interesting to me. I mean, 17 people voted yes, four voted no. Do we know why those four voted no?

GUPTA: Well, we know why at least a few of them voted no. You know, they weren't all asked about it, which was interesting. Typically after these types of advisory meetings you do have a sort of discussion, you know, why did you vote no or, you know, defend your vote, whatever. That didn't happen. But we did talk to a few of these committee members afterwards. It really seemed to come down to the age at which these vaccines might be recommended.

As you know, it's 16 years old and up. When I went back and looked at the data, what you find is that out of the 40,000, 44,000 trial participants, there was only 103 that were 16 or 17 years old so a very small amount of data there. Some said, well, we're going to vote no, sending it as a flag to the FDA to say, hey, when the CDC recommends this, should they recommend this for 18 years and up? We don't know. The CDC that may be their recommendation ultimately.

Are 16-year-olds biologically different than 18-year-olds? Could you use some of the data from the adult studies and bridge that data to the 16-year-old studies? These are all technical sort of things but they're going to be part of the discussion that's happening today with this advisory committee to the CDC, and then again on Sunday. So that really seemed to drive it. What you didn't hear I think most importantly is that people didn't think that there was a problem with safety or effectiveness. It really just had to do with that age group in particular.

SCIUTTO: OK. IHME has new projections out, this is a group that has been modeling potential death cases. It's been remarkably accurate, if anything understating where this country has ended up. This one anticipates the rollout of the vaccine. What have we learned from it?

GUPTA: Yes, this is really interesting, a little bit nuanced but I think important. So they actually have projected their counts a little bit lower now, 502,000 people down from 539,000.

[09:05:03]

It's not a significant difference. So they are expecting a modest impact from the vaccine, but what I thought was most interesting, Chris Murray who is with IHME, was talking about looking at the data and seeing how much of an impact the first dose of the vaccine will have.

And I want to show you this graph. This was something people may not have paid attention to, but if you look at this graph it's a little bit hard to tell, but the red line is basically the people who got placebo and you see they continued to get infected with the coronavirus at a pretty steady rate going up. At the inflection point where the blue line leaves the red lines that's 10 days, that's the 10-day point roughly, after the first dose. So 10 days after a single dose you seem to see according to this line a very significant benefit. I mean, it almost flattens out the curve there from a single dose.

Now, it's a very hard thing to study because there's only three weeks between the first and second dose so how do you really know how much of an impact a single dose has? That curve would suggest it was significant, IHME thought it was as well, so when they saw that much of an impact from that first dose that's what caused them to, you know, bring their numbers down a little bit in terms of projected deaths.

I think it's also going to be a big point of discussion with regard to what happens in these committee meetings over the weekend. Let's say you have 40 million doses, do you give 40 million people a single dose or do you give 20 million people a first dose and hold the other 20 million doses? We talked about this yesterday. I don't think the answer has been totally settled on this yet. I know Dr. Fauci believes you should reserve the second dose.

Dr. Offit believes you should reserve the second dose. But there are many people who are saying, look, we're in the middle of a pandemic, why wouldn't you give as many people as possible some protection as quickly as possible?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: It's such a fascinating debate so we'll look for some answers over the weekend.

Sanjay, thanks for everything.

GUPTA: You got it.

HARLOW: Well, ahead of the vaccine rollout hopefully starting next week, millions of medical kits with the syringes and alcohol swabs needed to administer these vaccines are already on their ways to hospitals around the country.

SCIUTTO: Yes. It's an important first step. CNN's Pete Muntean is at a Pfizer facility in Michigan that will be at the center of the vaccine distribution operation.

Pete, this is a huge logistical challenge here, so how are they preparing?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pfizer says that trucks carrying the vaccine, Jim and Poppy, could begin leaving here within 24 hours of that final FDA Emergency Use Authorization. What's so interesting here is that this spot is critical to the vaccine distribution network here in Kalamazoo, Michigan, Pfizer's largest facility, 1300 acres, a sprawling complex.

We know that vaccine arrived here late last month but according to Operation Warp Speed vaccine will be leaving here going to 600 individual locations. Those are places like hospitals, pharmacies, CVS, Walgreens. We know that UPS and FedEx that will handle the packages. UPS responsible for the eastern half of the United States and UPS tells us each of its packages will come equipped with a thermal sensor. We know that the temperature is so critical to the transportation of this Pfizer vaccine, it needs to be at negative 100 degrees Fahrenheit. That sensor can broadcast the temperature from inside the box back to UPS headquarters in Louisville.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WES WHEELER, PRESIDENT, UPS HEALTHCARE: Trailer loads that are coming out of Michigan and Wisconsin will carry this device. All that data is streaming into our command center in Louisville. So we can see, we have eyes on these shipments all the way from origin to the final dosing destination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: Now, it's not just companies bearing the burden of this, Jim and Poppy, it's also the federal government. We know that truckers are getting relaxed restrictions to work extra hours, air traffic control is giving priority clearance to cargo flights carrying the vaccine. We've also learned that U.S. Marshals will monitor the security of these vaccine shipments.

It is a massive movement, Jim and Poppy, and it all starts right here in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

SCIUTTO: All right. We know you'll be watching closely. We will as well.

Pete Muntean, thanks very much.

All right, to Capitol Hill now where, and this will sound familiar to you, sadly so, where lawmakers could make a deal for millions of struggling Americans or not. We're learning this morning things are not looking good. The impact -- and I don't have to tell many of you watching now -- I'm sure could be devastating.

HARLOW: It's unbelievable we're still here. Congressional correspondent Sunlen Serfaty joins us on Capitol Hill.

Four months they have been fighting. Four months. And now they go home at the end of next week. Are they going to reach a deal before that?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's a big question up here, Poppy, and I have to tell you things are on very, very shaky ground at the moment up here on Capitol Hill. There are multiple hold ups on multiple issues that are all running together and of course have very real ramifications for so many Americans out there.

[09:10:02]

The Senate is facing this midnight deadline tonight to pass a one-week stopgap measure that would keep the government funded for another week. They need to pass that by midnight tonight or the government shuts down and keep in mind they're just trying to pass this through to essentially give themselves some more negotiating time, one more week to try to add in that COVID relief bill. They also have the big issue of the defense policy bill, that is an annual bill that needs to get signed into law.

Now the important thing to remember here is this is where Senate procedure, all important Senate procedure really does come into play and it's so important. You have Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell, he needs -- because he's trying to push all of these things through very quickly in a short deadline he needs agreement from all 100 senators to push procedurally forward a lot of these issues.

And that is where a lot of senators will get to exert their leverage essentially and push for their own legislative priorities and essentially gum up the works, essentially just try to hold up these bills, filibuster and push for what they want. We've seen that from Senator Sanders, seen that from Senator Paul. Both pushing for their own priorities. That can slow things down a lot and they do not have the time they need to take care of that.

Now Congress of course works best under a deadline. The hope here among leaders is that they're able to pass this stopgap measure by midnight tonight, keep the government funded, pass the NDA, then next week get to the bigger issue of COVID relief and putting that into the government spending bill, but, Jim and Poppy, it is very unclear at this point how that all comes together by midnight tonight.

HARLOW: Let's pray it does. It is just so dysfunctional right now, Sunlen, I hope they act. Thank you very much.

Well, ahead we have a lot this hour. First this baseless election fight but still more than 100 Republicans in Congress are now backing the Texas lawsuit that looks to overthrow the election results in four battleground states and we are waiting for the Supreme Court to weigh in.

SCIUTTO: Yes. By the way, all those members of Congress were elected in this same election. But anyway major airlines --

HARLOW: And you always make that point and it's such a relevant one. Like so should their votes not count now? I don't know.

SCIUTTO: Well, that's the thing. Do they question their own elections? We'll ask them.

Major airlines are set to play a key role in getting this vaccine to people around the world. But this won't be easy. The CEO of United Airlines will join us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00]

HARLOW: Well, we're waiting for the Supreme Court to respond this morning as over 100 Republican lawmakers are now backing a Texas lawsuit that seeks to invalidate millions of votes across four states.

SCIUTTO: You heard us right there, to invalidate millions of votes, your votes. This comes one day after President Trump asked the Supreme Court to intervene in the lawsuit. Attorneys General from all four battleground states mentioned in the case have issued scathing responses. CNN's White House correspondent John Harwood has been following this.

And in effect, John, you have sitting lawmakers willing to attack an election in which they themselves were voted in, right? All members of Congress to support Trump's lie about the election. Why? What's happening here?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: What's happening here is a demonstration of the low quality of the House of Representatives Republican caucus. It's pathetic. These are people who their lone remaining conviction seems to be simply preserving themselves in office. They're too weak to stand up for the principle of democracy. And so at the behest of Donald Trump who psychologically and emotionally can't handle the fact that he lost the election, they're stepping up and signing this effort to throw out the results in these battleground states.

We're talking about Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Georgia. And the response of these states are scathing, and indicate just how weak the case is. The Pennsylvania Attorney General called it seditious, the Georgia Attorney General said it was a suit about generalized grievance, which is a polite way of saying they're just mad that they lost the election. And I would add in particular though, the attorney general of Georgia doesn't say this, they're mad that they lost the election because of the votes of non-white people.

These are -- these are essentially white legislators who are upset that African-Americans who live in large cities vote in large numbers for the Democratic candidate, and they lost and they don't like it, and they're trying to overturn it. It's not going to work. Supreme Court is not going to take this case. The only question is, when they let us know that.

HARLOW: Right. It could come at any moment. John, thanks very much for the reporting at the White House. Let's talk about all these headlines with Franita Tolson; CNN election law analyst, and vice dean for Faculty and Academic Affairs at USC's Gould School of Law. Always good to have you because you explain it to us in layman's terms what's happening here. We saw what the high court did earlier this week with the Pennsylvania case, right? Just unanimously shut it down. Are you expecting the same here?

FRANITA TOLSON, VICE DEAN FOR FACULTY & ACADEMIC AFFAIRS, USC GOULD SCHOOL OF LAW: Absolutely. And in some ways, this case is worse than the Pennsylvania case which was also meritless. So, like the Pennsylvania case, this case has been brought very late.

We are five weeks past election day, these are the types of grievances that one could raise well before the election. Even more importantly, is filed in the wrong form. This case is filed in the Supreme Court under the court's original jurisdiction. In those types of cases, the court rarely hears those. I mean, part of it is because the court wants to see whether or not these are the types of claims that can be resolved in the lower courts.

You can -- well, plaintiffs can build a record that goes before the Supreme Court. There is no record here. Like the court would be the court of first resort. And as we know, Poppy and Jim, these are the same claims that were brought in the series of cases --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

TOLSON: Brought post-election day based on election irregularities and voter fraud that frankly was never proven and had no merit.

SCIUTTO: Yes --

TOLSON: And even more importantly, the remedy is extraordinary, right? They want to disenfranchise millions of people.

[09:20:00]

The electors meet on Monday, right? The Supreme -- what would the remedy be? Do we have -- can we select a new slate of electors in three days? I thought -- this case is -- in some ways, it's way worse than the Pennsylvania case, and it's just as meritless.

SCIUTTO: I have to ask you, Franita because I always wonder what's the next step here? They will lose, right, by all --

TOLSON: Yes --

SCIUTTO: Accounts here? What are they laying the ground work for in terms of election law changes, voting access changes? What are you looking ahead to as the result of this unprecedented attack?

TOLSON: I do think part of this is about making governments difficult, right? So, Joe Biden won this election, and to the extent that the president continues to cast doubt on the outcome of the election, it makes it very difficult for Joe Biden to govern.

And so, in some ways, this is about spite which seems really odd, given that, you know, we are supposed to be the greatest democracy in the world. But it's also about fundraising. They have raised a ton of money off of fighting these election results, and sadly, it's also about undermining faith in the election.

So, I don't think that they really have, you know, a path forward just in terms of long-term goals. This is very short term, right? Because one of the features of our democracy is that we are defined by the fact in part that the loser accepts the results. It is about the peaceful transfer of power. This completely undermines that. And I have a hard time believing that the Republicans are thinking long term about the effects of that, they're looking at short-term political gain.

HARLOW: Assuming the Supreme Court weighs in today, soon, before Monday, right, before the electors on Monday. Is that it, then? I mean, or can they keep bringing up cases like this or trying to, to the high court after the 14th?

TOLSON: So, Poppy, I want to sort of divide that question up. Is that it in terms of the litigation? Maybe, maybe not, right? Like keep in mind, this election has been over since four days after election day, right? So it's been over. So people should not think that this will overturn the election, but it's not over in the sense that these elected --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

TOLSON: Officials who joined President Trump, they are still elected officials, right? And let me be frank. Democracy is not a gift that you receive with no strings attached, right?

SCIUTTO: Yes --

TOLSON: It's a job. And like any job, you have to work at this job. Our country is asking us, are we up to the job? These elected officials have said, no, they are not up to the job. And so it is incumbent upon the rest of us to hold them accountable because they will still be here after --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

TOLSON: January 20th.

SCIUTTO: A republic if you can keep it, right?

HARLOW: There you go.

TOLSON: Republic if you can keep it --

SCIUTTO: Those words ringing true. Franita Tolson, always good to have you on. Thanks very much.

TOLSON: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, the airline industry has just been decimated by this pandemic. Now, will play a critical role in ending it. We're going to have the CEO of United Airlines next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:25:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. We as a country are closer to having a vaccine authorized for widespread distribution, and airlines are preparing for the enormous task of getting those millions and millions of doses around the country, around the world. It is a pivotal role for an industry that has struggled throughout this pandemic. Joining me now is the CEO of United Airlines Scott Kirby. Scott, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

SCOTT KIRBY, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, UNITED AIRLINES: Right, good morning. Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, this is an enormous logistical challenge getting these doses around the country to tens of millions of people. There are risks, the FAA warning about the dangers of shipping dry ice which is necessary to keep the vaccines at temperature here. How is United Airlines overcoming this?

KIRBY: Well, look, we are proud of our partnership with the pharmaceutical industry, and the reality is those are the real heroes in this story. The scientists, the researchers, but also the entire companies that have worked out in record time a complicated logistic system to be able to deliver the vaccine around the world. But what we did at United, we started literally back before the Summer recognizing that cold chain technology was a likely possibility, and started working on structural changes to the airplane, and started working with the FAA.

The FAA was a great partner with us to do exactly what you said. To be able to carry more dry ice so that we can get north of a million doses of vaccine per flight on board airplanes. And because we started that months ago when the vaccines started being manufactured a few weeks ago, we were in a position to start shipping it to the distribution centers around the world.

SCIUTTO: Wow, a million per flight. That's remarkable. OK, let's talk about your other precious cargo, of course, passengers. United tested out a sort of a health pass --

KIRBY: Right --

SCIUTTO: Earlier this year for international flights, a common pass requiring people to show a negative test. I wonder, will this become a new norm including domestically, having to show a negative test, perhaps even at some point --

KIRBY: Yes --

SCIUTTO: Having been vaccinated?

KIRBY: Yes, look, there's a lot to still be determined. But United was the first airline to start with testing to Hawaii, and then we worked with common pass, we started in Newark to London Heathrow test. We now test alternatives for ten destinations in Latin America. What we think is that getting through the next year at least is going

to require a combination of tests, perhaps antibody -- prove that you have antibodies or a vaccine. And so being prepared to support all of that, and the complication of it's likely, unfortunately, to be different country by country and to try to make it easy so that if customers go to united.com or to our app, they can -- and know where they want to go, they can quickly and easily find out whether they need a test, a vaccination.

Because it's going to be an evolving set of requirements as we move forward.