Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Pfizer Prepares to Ship Vaccines; Interview with Pfizer Vaccine Study Participant; Texas Lawsuit Waits on Supreme Court Ruling. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 11, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST, NEWSROOM: We continue on, hour two on this Friday afternoon, I'm Brooke Baldwin, you're watching CNN. Thank you for being here.

The U.S. is inching closer and closer to emergency use authorization of a COVID-19 vaccine: An FDA advisory panel has voted to move forward, and a CDC advisory committee is meeting today. And so after all of those panels have their say, the FDA and the CDC must give their OK before vaccinations can officially begin.

And for those suffering with the virus, I know a vaccine cannot come soon enough, keeping in mind this was the deadliest week in the U.S. in terms of coronavirus since it all started, more than 2,700 Americans died yesterday.

The director of the CDC is issuing this grim prediction for the next few days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: Probably for the next 60 to 90 days, we're going to have more deaths per day than we had in 9/11 or we had at Pearl Harbor. And the reality is the vaccine approval this week's not going to really impact that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The number of people sick in the hospital, also breaking its own record now at more than 107,000 people hospitalized according to HHS, at least 200 hospitals across the country are reporting they're at full capacity. And just think about this, in more than a third of hospitals nationwide, their ICUs are at near-full capacity at 90 percent.

Now, one of the challenges that lies ahead with this Pfizer vaccine is that it has to be stored at sub-zero degree temperatures, and so today the Federal Aviation Administration is issuing a new warning to air carriers just about the risks of transporting these large amounts of dry ice, just to keep the COVID vaccines cold.

So to Michigan we go, to my colleague Pete Muntean. He is at one of the main Pfizer facilities, they're waiting to start shipping the vaccine. And all right, if we're talking about a lot of dry ice on a plane, what exactly is the FAA saying?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well you know, Brooke, a mission like this would not be without some risk. The FAA is warning air cargo companies that they need to be especially careful as they handle these vaccine packages packed with dry ice, tens of thousands of pounds. We know that the Pfizer vaccine is especially temperature- sensitive, it needs to be negative-100 degrees Fahrenheit.

The FAA says as all of that dry ice melts -- and it does so faster on an airplane -- it turns into carbon dioxide and, in extreme amounts, could suffocate somebody handling one of those packages or even a pilot. So the FAA says there's a real danger here and people need to be careful.

BALDWIN: What do you know about Pfizer's efforts just to get the vaccines literally on the planes, you know, out to hospitals and distribution centers?

MUNTEAN: Well, Pfizer says trucks carrying the vaccine could begin leaving here within 24 hours of that final FDA emergency use authorization. We know this spot, Pfizer's plant near Kalamazoo, Michigan, is critical to the vaccine distribution network. It is a large facility, Pfizer's largest, 1,300 acres, sprawling campus.

We know that vaccine arrived here late last month, and according to Operation Warp Speed, we're learning that vaccine will leave here directly for 600 individual locations. Those are places like hospitals, pharmacies, CVS and Walgreens.

We know that FedEx and UPS will physically carry the packages, UPS in the east, FedEx in the west. UPS tells us that each one of those packages is equipped with a thermal monitor and it could broadcast the temperature from inside the package back to UPS headquarters in Louisville. This is high-tech stuff.

BALDWIN: Sounds like it indeed, Pete Muntean, thank you very much.

Medical officials have already warned getting the coronavirus vaccine is, quote, "no walk in the park." But my next guest is hoping the potential side effects will not turn the rest of us away. She is Kristen Choi, she's an assistant professor at UCLA School of Nursing and she wrote this first-person account of her experience volunteering in Pfizer's clinical trial, and it was published on the website of the "Journal of the American Medical Association."

And now I get to talk to her. So, Kristen, good to have you on. And thank you so much, by the way, just for all the work you are doing. Welcome.

KRISTEN CHOI, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, UCLA SCHOOL OF NURSING: Thanks, Brooke, it's great to be on.

BALDWIN: And just to establish, you know, you don't know if you actually received the real vaccine or the placebo, but you as a clinical researcher yourself with a doctorate in nursing, you think it was the actual vaccine. I want you to tell me why.

CHOI: Sure. So this is a double-blind study, which means that the researchers and the participants don't know whether they received the vaccine or the placebo. However, after I got the second injection of -- the study injection, I had some pretty severe side effects, and that was a signal to me that I was probably someone who got the active vaccine rather than the placebo.

When I got home from the study I had chills, fatigue, muscle pain, all classic signs of a vaccine reaction. And I also developed quite a high fever overnight the day after the study. And all of those were signals to me that it was probably the active vaccine.

[14:05:01]

BALDWIN: I read what you wrote. You say you got -- your fever was up to 104.9, is that right?

CHOI: Yes, yes.

BALDWIN: Yes, so that's even a little higher than my worst night when I had COVID a couple of months ago. And I know there are already people who believe, you know, this vaccine will give them COVID. Can you just educate us on why that is not the case?

CHOI: Absolutely. So it's -- the important thing for people to know is that these vaccines absolutely cannot cause COVID. They don't have anything to do with them and how they're made. And so the good news is people don't have to worry about that.

You know, fevers and other signals like chills, nausea, fatigue, they're all signs that our body is learning how to fight the virus by activating our immune system. And so, you know, what I plan to tell patients is that if you do experience these side effects, they're a signal that the vaccine is working and that's actually what we want.

In most cases, those side effects are transient and short-lived. You know, for me they were just a day and I felt perfectly fine since then.

BALDWIN: Just a day and then -- OK, I talked to a doctor the last hour, she's planning on taking the day off after she gets the vaccine and then should be back to business.

When you look at the skepticism among Americans for this vaccine, 53 percent of Americans say they will take this first-generation vaccine, and that is up from 38 percent since October. Why did you want to come on TV and just share your side effects? I know you're obviously a supporter of people getting vaccinated.

CHOI: Sure. You know, I think it's important for health care providers, doctors, nurses, pharmacists to be prepared to talk to people about what to expect from this vaccine. As someone who gives flu shots myself, I know that all too often we can really rush through explaining side effects and what to expect. It'll be really important for this one that we take the time to explain to people what they can expect, why it's happening and why it's important for them to come back for that second dose.

And so my message is really to health care workers, just to be ready to talk to folks in a way that they can understand about what to expect.

BALDWIN: And Kristen, just as a nurse, you know, you said you give flu shots, you could be administering this COVID vaccine. What would the conversation be like that you would have before -- let's say if you were giving me the vaccine, what would you say to me ahead of time?

CHOI: Well, Brooke, the first thing I'd say is that I've taken this vaccine myself. I trust it enough to get it, and you know, trust can go a long ways when it comes to having these conversations with patients.

Second, I would say that you might experience some side effects. But if you do, they're a signal that the vaccine is working and that's actually a good thing, it means that our body is learning how to fight the virus and that they'll probably be transient.

I would also want you to know when to seek emergency medical care of course, but fortunately we know that in the vast majority of cases, side effects are short, they are few and people are back to normal.

Finally I'd want you to know that you know, even though you may have side effects, it's a small price to pay in relation to the risk of hospitalization or even dying from the coronavirus.

BALDWIN: And then I would say, OK, and I'd close my eyes, and I'd hand you my arm.

When, Kristen, do you find out if you actually received the vaccine or if it was the placebo?

CHOI: So that's still an open question. You know, the trials will go on for a few more months and years in some cases. And so I believe that that's something that's still in the works, figuring out when is the right time to unblind folks in the study and you know, learn as much as we can before the vaccine is rolled out for everyone to get.

BALDWIN: And just reminding everyone, you know, this is two doses, 21 days apart. Were your severe side effects after dose number one or dose number two, and how have you been since then?

CHOI: So my side effects were only after dose number two. And from the data that were published by Pfizer just a few days ago, that seemed to be pretty common when most people had a reaction.

Of course, we also know that reactions are much more common in people who are younger than those who are older. I'm 28, so I would fall in that group that had more severe side effects. And I felt perfectly fine since then.

You know, I've had a number of family members test positive for the coronavirus over the past few months, that's been really scary to see that happen and I'm one of the few that hasn't. So you know, I really would urge people to get this vaccine if it's offered to them, certainly health care workers and those first in line should get it.

BALDWIN: And then just last quick question, because I was talking to a doctor last hour, it was the first time I really heard someone say, all right, even if you get the vaccine, like both doses -- you know, I'm thinking, all right, I'm free and clear. Like do I still have to wear a mask, do I still have to social distance, can I sit indoors in places where it's allowed to eat dinner?

But she said no, Brooke, you know, like, you still have to do all the things for everyone else. Where do you stand on that?

CHOI: Absolutely. I'd absolutely agree with her. You know, it's going to take some time for us to get this virus under control. We know it's spreading really quickly right now all over the United States, and until we get to a place where those numbers are (ph) down, it's important for all of us to take full precautions. And certainly we know that masks and social distancing are effective too in stopping the spread of the virus.

So yes, in these initial days, it'll be important for all of us to take all the precautions we can including masks, social distancing and getting the vaccine when it's offered.

BALDWIN: Kristen Choi, we'll be watching your journey. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with all of us, it's absolutely fascinating.

CHOI: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

CHOI: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Let's get to more perspective on all of this. CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is with me now. And, Elizabeth, what did you think of Kristen's experience?

[14:10:02]

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, first of all I want to say that Kristen, I think, is a terrific one-woman public health education campaign. it is a great thing that she is coming on our show and other shows -- hopefully -- saying, look, this is what happened to me. You could very well feel sick after this vaccine, especially after the second dose, and that's OK. Not only is it OK, it's actually a good thing, it shows that your body is learning how to fight off the real virus. It's OK that you're feeling sick, it's not dangerous.

The responses that she had are actually relatively common, 14 percent of people who get this vaccine after the second dose, they get a fever. More than half of people feel fatigue and headache, so there is a reasonable chance that you are going to feel sick after getting this vaccine. Again, not only is it OK, it's a good thing. It shows that your body is learning how to fight off the virus.

BALDWIN: Such -- I agree with everything you just said. And the fact that she is young and healthy and 28 and she still got her, you know, butt kicked a little bit -- forgive me -- you know, for a day at 104.9-degree fever. But then it all went away, I think it's just important for all of us to take in and sit with as we move forward and hopefully start getting vaccinated.

Elizabeth Cohen, thank you.

COHEN: That's right, thanks.

BALDWIN: To Washington, all eyes on the Supreme Court this afternoon. We are waiting to hear how the justices will respond to the Texas attorney general's lawsuit trying to overturn the presidential election.

In the meantime, the Biden transition team forges ahead. The president-elect will take to the stage this hour to announce more cabinet picks.

And in these final days of the Trump administration, the Justice Department is changing federal death penalty rules to expedite executions. Why?

You're watching CNN, I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:05]

BALDWIN: Any moment now, the U.S. Supreme Court could rule on President Trump's Texas election lawsuit that seeks to overturn millions of votes in key states that President-elect Joe Biden won. I'm talking Pennsylvania, Michigan, Georgia and Wisconsin.

And these attorneys general in each of these battleground states have already made it clear where they stand -- look at some of the quotes here for yourself -- calling the lawsuit a "seditious abuse of the judicial process," "generalized grievance," "extraordinary intrusion" and "without factual foundation."

But on Capitol Hill, we are seeing quite a different story play out, with more than 100 Republican lawmakers -- look at all these names -- standing by the president and supporting this lawsuit.

Sophia Nelson is a former House Republican investigative counsel and author of the book, "E Pluribus ONE: Reclaiming Our Founders' Vision for a United America." And Jonathan Diaz is CNN election law analyst.

So welcome to both of you. And Jonathan, as we're still on standby from the Supreme Court, what could we possibly hear from these justices?

JONATHAN DIAZ, CNN ELECTION LAW ANALYST: Well, now that the briefing is complete and those four defendant states that Texas has sued have responded, the Supreme Court can really rule at any time.

And I would expect them to move rather quickly because Monday, December 14th, the electors will meet in each of the 50 states and D.C. to cast their electoral votes. And I think that the Supreme Court will want to put an end to Texas' frankly absurd attempt to subvert the will of the voters long before the electors gather to cast their votes.

BALDWIN: Speaking of absurd, Sophia, you worked in the Republican-led House in the '90s. Like, it's one thing to have, you know, Ken Paxton and you know, going to have lunch at the White House yesterday and the guy's indicted on securities fraud. But when you look at this full screen and all these names, these, you know,100-plus Republican lawmakers, including the minority House Whip Steve Scalise, all backing this suit when the election results are as definitive as they are, what are you thinking?

SOPHIA NELSON, FORMER ELECTION LAWYER, GEORGE W. BUSH'S 2004 CAMPAIGN: Well, Brooke, a couple things. One, as someone who was a Republican from 1988 until Donald Trump took over the Republican Party, this is disappointing, that's an understatement. But you know, Brooke, history's going to remember.

You know the term "Radical Republicans of 1860?" Those are the guys that passed the 13th, 14th, 15th Amendment, you know, got rid of slavery, enfranchised black male voters, et cetera, these are the radicalized Republicans of the 2020s, and that's how this is going to go down.

This is -- it's sedition, it's a coup. Look, right now the judiciary is the only branch of government holding this republic intact. And I don't want your viewers to miss that I'm calling this a coup on purpose, that I'm calling this sedition on purpose. Because when you have the executive and the legislative working in concert together to overturn an election that has been certified by sovereign sister states? That's a coup, that's what it is.

BALDWIN: That's a strong word, I hear you loud and clear.

Jonathan, we've seen 18 now states attorneys general back this lawsuit. If the Supreme Court gives an answer similar to the one we saw in the Pennsylvania case, right? That one sentence, no noted dissents, is that the end? Like, this is over, no more court challenges for Trump and these Republicans?

DIAZ: I mean, it should be but I would have told you that two weeks ago, that we should have been, you know, finished with these challenges long ago when, at the district court level in states across the country, the Trump campaign and allies of the president have been entirely unable to provide any evidence or any legal argument or any reason at all why the results of the election shouldn't be respected and followed.

But unfortunately, given the, you know, full-throated support that now a majority of the Republican House conference and so many state attorneys general put behind this effort, I'm concerned that this will not be the end.

[14:20:08]

Even if, as we expect, the Supreme Court tosses this challenge out and, you know, none of these efforts will overturn the results of this election, the concern runs deeper that it's now, you know, a majority position among one of the two major political parties in this country, that an election is illegitimate if they don't win, even with no evidence of fraud or any other wrongdoing.

BALDWIN: So if this is not the end -- and, Sophia, you mentioned ago how you're -- you know, you've been this essentially lifelong Republican since the '80s until Donald J. Trump. Do you think you're going to get your party back?

NELSON: No, I don't. I actually think that 74 million Americans voted for four more years of this. I'm actually paying attention and I've had conservatives on my podcast. And, Brooke, we're living in two different Americas with two different set of facts. And therein lies the problem, it's the misinformation.

And President Trump has done great harm to this democratic republic, let's be clear about that because the misinformation, the lies, the accusation, the smears? There are 70-plus-million of us that believe them.

We're sitting on this network, Jonathan and I, lawyers, constitutional scholars, et cetera, we're talking facts that any sensible, reasonable person realizes this election didn't have fraud, we don't have fraudulent elections in the United States, Brooke, that's not a common occurrence here like in other countries. It's a fraud that's being perpetrated on the American people, and 70 million of our fellow citizens buy it. That's the problem.

No, I don't think the party's coming back, and I'm heartbroken over it. I don't know what happens next.

BALDWIN: Sophia Nelson, thank you. Jonathan Diaz, good to see you. Thank you both.

Without a coronavirus relief bill in sight and with just two weeks left until Christmas, it has forced families to make the choice between paying bills or buying gifts for their kids. More on that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:26:45]

BALDWIN: The Justice Department, which is now in a sprint right now to make last-minute changes to the rules surrounding federal death penalties? It's all in an effort to push through a slew of scheduled executions in the final days of the Trump administration. CNN justice correspondent Jessica Schneider is with me now.

And, Jessica, why the rush? JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke, I mean,

the federal death penalty, it has become this top priority for the Trump Justice Department particularly in these past few months. Attorney General Bill Barr, he restarted federal executions this summer for the first time in 17 years.

And since then, there have been nine executions including last night's controversial lethal injection of Brandon Bernard, who was actually 18 years old when he committed the crime that led to his death. And that's why there was such an outcry.

Now, Barr said in July that the federal death penalty was necessary to bring justice to victims of horrific crimes and to uphold the rule of law. But, Brooke, critics have really called out the DOJ for the volume of lethal injections we've seen; five more of them are scheduled between now and January 20th including another one scheduled for tonight.

And that really in and of itself, it bucks tradition since over the past 100 years, there actually have not been any federal execution in this transition time period. So there have been a lot of challenges up until the last minute in all these cases.

But notably, Brooke, the Supreme Court has not stepped in to stop any of these though there have been plenty of dissents and I'm sure that we will see a flurry of last-minute challenges again tonight before this latest scheduled execution in what has been this flurry of executions from the Trump DOJ here.

BALDWIN: You talk about lethal injections, but just in reading about some of this, isn't there discussion over returning to more archaic methods?

SCHNEIDER: Well, firing squad, that has been on the table. It sounds far-fetched, but you know, this is part of a rule that the Justice Department is trying to get implemented to broaden out the possible methods for federal executions. And this is mainly so it reduces the opportunities for inmates to sue to stop the executions.

And that could mean allowing firing squads in certain states. It's a method that is still allowed in a few states, and with this new rule, that method, it could actually be on the table in those states.

So it's unlikely, Brooke, because the primary method at this point is lethal injection. But the fact that it's now on the table as an option, it really underscores just how committed this Justice Department is to making every method possible available for the death penalty.

But, Brooke, we will see a new president in the next year, and President-elect Joe Biden has said that he will stop federal executions, and of course he would likely rescind this rule that would possibly allow for firing squads as well -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK, Jessica, thank you. We are getting some breaking news here in to us this afternoon. We're

learning that the White House chief of staff has told the FDA commissioner to authorize the vaccine by the end of today, or resign. We're getting new information on that, we'll bring that to you, ahead.

[14:29:47]

Also, as hospitalizations are on the rise in New York City, Governor Cuomo announced a ban on indoor dining, that starts Monday. We have more on that, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)