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Pfizer BioNTech Vaccine Approved By CDC; Staff At White House To Get Vaccinated; Electoral College Set To Confirm Biden On Monday; Department Of Commerce Confirms Security Breach. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired December 13, 2020 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

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ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: All right. Well, that will do it for me. Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Alex Marquardt. CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Ana Cabrera. Take care.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. Thanks for joining me. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York and today is the day. Americans long burdened by this pandemic can look to freight trucks on interstates and airplanes overhead and see relief in action.

The first batch of a coronavirus vaccine is now being transported to hundreds of facilities across all 50 states. The CDC director has just given the green light to the Pfizer and BioNTech vaccine and it's the last step in this approval process.

So, it means that the first vaccinations could begin for the country's most vulnerable and for health care workers on the front lines as soon as tomorrow morning. The U.S. aims to vaccinate 100 million people by the end of March.

And this vaccine arrives at a critical moment for the U.S. as the fallout from Thanksgiving travel is still unfolding. It took us only four days, four, to add 1 million more cases, crossing the 16 million mark this weekend.

Hospitals in nearly every corner of this country have felt the impact as hospitalizations due to COVID-19 hit record highs for the seventh day in a row yesterday. More than 30,000 American deaths from COVID-19 were reported this month alone.

And American COVID deaths in just the past week, outnumber the total number of Canadian deaths in this pandemic. With winter holidays just ahead, experts say it will get worse before the majority of Americans have a chance to roll up their sleeves for this vaccine.

Today, though, we should pause and just take in the progress. The scenes we are witnessing are historic. A safe and effective vaccine rollout just 12 months into a world-altering pandemic is unprecedented. And we are covering every angle of this complex process. CNN's Paul Vercammen is standing by in Los Angeles and Pete Muntean is

in Portage, Michigan at Pfizer's manufacturing facility. Pete, you saw the first trucks load up and roll out of there this morning. Has everything gone according to plan so far?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So far, so good, Ana. And what a moment we saw here, especially considering the fact that we only first learned of this virus less than a year ago and now the vaccine is rolling out from here. A critical spot in the vaccine distribution network.

This is Pfizer's largest facility just outside of Kalamazoo, Michigan. Trucks carrying the virus, UPS and FedEx trucks left here at 8:30 this morning. On board, 189 boxes of the Pfizer vaccine and each one of those boxes, 975 vials of the vaccine, five doses per vial.

You do the math, that's about 920,000 doses of this vaccine now going throughout the country. Operation Warp Speed says they're going to 600 individual locations. Those are places like hospitals and pharmacies, CVS and Walgreen's.

The deliveries start tomorrow morning, but the bulk of the shipments will arrive on Tuesday. Pfizer's head of global supply says this is just the start of a massive movement.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE MCDERMOTT, PRESIDENT, PFIZER GLOBAL SUPPLY: I couldn't be more confident in the distribution of the vaccine. We've worked incredibly hard over many months doing test shipments, improving our shippers, making sure that they can maintain temperature during the entire journey. And we're very happy with the solution.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MUNTEAN: Not just a ground game here, Ana, also a massive air operation. Those trucks went to airports vaccine flights flew the vaccine to hubs. And we just saw one of those vaccine flights land at UPS headquarters in Louisville at Wolrdport, just the start of a massive vaccine delivery operation that all begins right here in Michigan, Ana.

CABRERA: Pere, stand by. We will be talking by the way to UPS officials to see how things have been going today later in this show. But I want to turn to Paul Vercammen right now in Los Angeles because some of the first COVID-19 vaccine shipments will head to your location, Paul, UCLA's medical center. How soon will those vials arrive?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, at UCLA, they're cautious and guarded. They don't want to reveal too much, but they say next day or so for these vaccines to arrive. And that means shots in the arms for the beginning of 11,000 UCLA hospital workers on Wednesday.

Very, very careful about what they reveal, but it's clear that among those to get the shots first are going to be ICU and emergency room workers. Those who have the most contact and closest contact with COVID-19 patients.

Dr. Cherry here at UCLA, also dealing with the daunting task of this explosion of COVID-19 cases in California.

[17:05:01

The latest count, more than 30,000. Here at UCLA, 101 COVID-19 patients. I asked him about trying to vaccinate his employees in the middle of a pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERT CHERRY, CHIEF MEDICAL AND QUALITY OFFICER, UCLA HEALTH: There's years of emergency preparedness behind a lot of these efforts. So, while we're taking care of our non-COVID patients as well as our patients that are COVID-19 as well, we are doing other things that we need to do to keep our health care workers safe, including standing up a vaccination program for them. We'll have the staffing to be able to do this and people are pitching in to make sure it works well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERCAMMEN: And UCLA is a critical distribution hub. It has seven freezers, a million capacity for the vaccines. So, some of the vaccine will leave here for other hospitals as they distribute it throughout the west. Back to you now, Ana.

CABRERA: OK, Paul Vercammen, Pete Muntean, thanks, guys. I'm joined now by Dr. Leana Wen. She is a CNN medical analyst and former health commissioner for Baltimore. She is also an emergency room physician at George Washington University.

Dr. Wen, first, I want to get your reaction to today's news, this moment. Here we are, less than a year after the first case of coronavirus was identified in the United States. We have a viable vaccine and tomorrow vaccinations officially begin. How extraordinary is that?

LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It is truly extraordinary. It is a triumph of science and I think we're going to look back on this moment as a major turning point in this pandemic. The beginning of the end or the end of a beginning, if you will.

I do also think we need to just celebrate the science that's involved. I watched the proceedings last week, the deliberations by the external committees of scientists. And I think this is also a moment where we should be celebrating science because science has really prevailed here.

And I hope that the American people can take great comfort in knowing that what happened was no scientific shortcuts were taken. And we are confident of the safety and efficacy of these vaccines.

CABRERA: The initial shipment of coronavirus vaccines is 2.9 million doses, we are told. This is according to Alex Azar, the U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary. How big a difference will this make in curtailing the horrible case numbers we've been seeing and reporting on over the past few weeks?

WEN: Unfortunately, this is not going to make that much of a difference right now. And that's because we're only looking at about 1 percent of the population that this initial shipment is going to cover. And right now we're facing escalating surges.

One-third of our hospitals are already at full capacity when it comes to their ICUs. We have a Thanksgiving surge and then we're going to see a Christmas surge on top of that. And so, the shipments right now will make a difference to the individuals.

And don't get me wrong, that's a big deal because these individuals are going to be protected for the most part against COVID-19. But it's not going to make a big difference when it comes to this horrible death toll that we're seeing.

CABRERA: And that's such an important message. Do you worry the beginning of these vaccinations could give some people a false sense of security?

WEN: I do. I think people are misunderstanding about what this vaccine does. What it does is that it reduces severe illness and it reduces hospitalizations and symptomatic illness from COVID-19, which is really important.

But we don't yet know whether these vaccines will reduce transmission and spread of coronavirus. And so even after somebody gets the vaccine, they still need to be wearing masks. They still need to be practicing social distancing.

And again, what's going to get us through this winter is not the vaccine. It's not going to come quickly, not for most Americans. What will get us through is masks, social distancing and really critically, avoiding indoor gatherings with people who are not in our immediate household.

CABRERA: How do you persuade people to keep using masks? Some people who haven't really been doing that from the beginning as well as the social distancing you just spoke of when, you know, people see the vaccine shipping out and they think this means the pandemic is over?

WEN: But that vaccine is not going to get to you for quite a bit longer. Not for forever, right? We're talking about waiting for several more months. Probably by late spring, early summer. And everyone in America who wants the vaccine should be able to get it.

I'm hopeful that we will be able to vaccinate the vast majority of Americans by the summer. But we really need to hang in there for that bit longer. We do have the end in sight, but how tragic would it be if people were to die, thousands per day, when we actually have hope right there.

CABRERA: Moncef Slaoui is the head of Operation Warp Speed. He said today that they hope to have immunized 100 million people by April. That's well short of herd immunity, of course, which would require that about 75 percent of Americans are immunized. But how far will that go to spread, you know, stop the spread or slow the spread of this virus that is killing thousands of Americans a day?

[17:09:57

WEN: I do think Ana that by March/April, where we have 100 million people who are vaccinated, that we will be able to slow the spread substantially because this virus is going to spread as long as people are still susceptible to it.

So, if people who were infected before, people who got the virus are now going to have some level of protection. And so, I think it will make a difference, again, in the spring but we need to get through this winter. And I just cannot overemphasize how worried I am about Christmas and New Year's.

We saw surges with every major holiday. I really hope that people who are still considering traveling to please cancel those trips and let's celebrate Christmas differently. Let's not get together indoors unless we have quarantined for at least seven days and then gotten tested or quarantined for 10 days. For most people that's not possible so, this is the year to not gather indoors.

CABRERA: As you know, the vaccine rollout is largely going to happen at the state level and Secretary Azar says states are being given the money that they need for vaccine distribution. Do you think that's right? Do states and cities have what they need to get these vaccines to the people who need them?

WEN: No, states do not have what they need. They requested $8.4 billion in order to do the vaccine distribution. And so far, they've received only a small fraction of that, about $300 million. It would just would be so tragic to see that all the efforts that were made in to speed the scientific discovery of Operation Warp Speed for development, if that's not then translated to Operation Warp Speed for distribution.

And that's what's going to happen when there are such complex logistics that states and local health departments, they've been doing their best, but it's the same people who have been rolling out testing and contact tracing and who have been doing public education who are now having to also do vaccinations. We really need to support them.

CABRERA: As we mentioned, you're an emergency room physician. Do you know when you will get the vaccine?

WEN: I don't know yet but I am very eager to get the vaccine and also my father is in his 70s, my mother-in-law is in her 70s also. They have chronic medical illnesses. I am excited for them and for all Americans and people around the world to be able to get this vaccine.

CABRERA: Dr. Leana Wen, great to see you. Thank you so much for all your insights and expertise and the time you're taking with us. We have much more on the vaccine rollout just ahead. But we're also following developments from Washington where a bipartisan group of lawmakers are deciding to split up their proposals for much needed COVID relief. We'll have the details next.

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CABRERA: A massive logistical effort is under way to get the first coronavirus vaccine doses to high-risk health care workers and those who are most vulnerable in long-term living facilities all across the country.

But we've just learned White House staff will be among the first to get vaccinated. Let's go right to our White House correspondent, Boris Sanchez. Boris, what have you learned?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ana, CNN confirming this news first broken by "The New York Times." This is coming from our colleagues, Kaitlan Collins and Jim Acosta. We've confirmed that White House staff will be receiving the first doses of coronavirus vaccine among the federal government.

We've heard that government officials at several agencies will also be receiving these doses. They will be among the first Americans getting this very limited vaccine and notably the idea here is to get these government officials treated as quickly as possible in order to prevent those closest to the president from getting infected with coronavirus.

Keep in mind, officials here at the White House and other government agencies have been dealing with coronavirus outbreaks dating back to the spring, perhaps culminating with that Rose Garden super-spreader event for Amy Coney Barrett where it's believed that President Trump himself got coronavirus.

The context here is extremely important. Right now this vaccine is only going to be available to very high-risk front-line workers treating coronavirus patients and other at-risk populations. At this point, this administration has not been very serious in handling the coronavirus when it comes to public messaging.

You've heard from the president himself in speaking to Bob Woodward on the record saying that he's downplayed the severity of this virus. We've heard from White House staffers who say they have been pressured to not wear masks while they're working here at the White House because the president doesn't like the visuals, the optics of that.

And further, the White House continues to hold holiday-themed events with large groups of people gathering in very close spaces. No social distancing. Very few masks, if any. So, these White House officials are going to be receiving a vaccine that millions of at-risk Americans could use very badly right now, Ana.

CABRERA: From the White House to Capitol Hill now Boris, we also just learned there's a development in the stimulus talks on the Hill. What can you tell us about that?

SANCHEZ: Yes. So, this is coming from our colleagues, Manu Raju and Dana Bash. This bipartisan group of legislators both in the House and Senate have been working to advance stimulus talks. And we're learning that they're actually going to break up what would with be an enormous package into two pieces.

Essentially the first one is a $748 billion proposal that would likely have a backing among most lawmakers. It helps small businesses, provides jobless benefits, provides for vaccine distribution among other things. The second portion would certainly be more contentious.

It includes $160 billion boost for state and local aid and liability protection for businesses and other enterprises. Those two have been the main sticking points between Democrats and Republicans for months. Democrats wanting that state and local aid.

Republicans, the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, very, very firm on the line that he wants liability protection for businesses. That second portion may have a difficult time getting through. The first one likely to be much more popular, Ana. We're expecting these lawmakers will provide more details tomorrow afternoon.

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CABRERA: I think a lot of people are holding their breath and maybe breathing a little sigh of relief after hearing this report, Boris. Keeping our fingers crossed. Thank you.

Joe Biden is meeting today with his transition team. The president- elect also attending mass in Wilmington, Delaware this weekend. And you can see he's walking a little bit more carefully than usual as his broken foot heals.

I want to bring in CNN's Jessica Dean. Jessica, it is a big day for the Biden team. The eve of the Electoral College vote that will officially seal the victory for the former vice president, now president-elect.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Ana. And you know, typically tomorrow's activities would be just, you know, what we would expect. It would be more of a formality. And with all of the false allegations from President Trump about the election being rigged and fraudulent, a fraudulent election and also his refusal to concede, it really takes on a lot more importance.

And to your point, the Biden team certainly has its eye on that official meeting of the Electoral College tomorrow. We do know the president-elect is expected to give remarks later tomorrow evening on the Electoral College meeting and what it means for America going forward and for his upcoming administration.

And something to note, Ana, that's right now scheduled for 8:00 p.m. eastern, which is more of a prime time speaking slot. We've really been seeing him in the afternoon. So, clearly they're trying to make sure that they can get to as many Americans as possible with that later slot in the evening tomorrow, Ana.

CABRERA: And Jessica, as team Biden continues to fill out the roster in these top positions and the next administration, we're hearing from multiple sources today about a Biden administration cabinet position. Can you tell us who is being considered for it and what more you know? DEAN: Yes, we've got -- right. We've got some new reporting from our

colleague Jeff Zeleny and Dan Merica who are reporting that Pete Buttigieg, former 2020 presidential candidate himself, former South Bend mayor, has emerged as the leading contender to be the Secretary of Transportation.

Now, if you've been following along during this transition, you know that Buttigieg's name has been in the mix for a lot of different roles. The Biden team and the president-elect himself really think very highly of him. They would love to see him placed in one of these roles. It's just been about finding the right place for him, the right fit.

And so now we're getting this reporting that he is emerging as the top contender to be Secretary of Transportation, which is going to be a critical role as President-elect Biden works to push through his expected infrastructure plan that the Transportation Department is going to play a big role in that.

We have to underscore that this is all again, fluid. These decisions are still being talked about and being made, but Ana, right now, that's what we're hearing.

CABRERA: Nothing is official until it's announced I guess. Thank you, Jessica Dean.

So tomorrow is huge for the future of this nation on so many levels as we continue to follow the breaking vaccine news. The Electoral College will also affirm President-elect Joe Biden's victory tomorrow, but President Trump is still refusing to concede. So, what does that mean for the country? We'll discuss. Stay right there.

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[17:25:00

CABRERA: Tomorrow, the Electoral College will affirm Joe Biden's 2020 victory and politicians from both parties are imploring President Trump to accept reality, to put country first. Their words, once this happens.

But he apparently has other plans. Here's what the president said in a Fox News interview taped yesterday when he was asked about his crushing Supreme Court defeat.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS HOST: Is it over?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, it's not over. We keep going and we're going to continue to go forward.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: I'm joined by CNN senior political analyst John Avlon and CNN political commentator and host of "Firing Line" on PBS, Margaret Hoover. Always good to see both of you. John, I'll start with you. What does it mean for American democracy if one party just refuses to accept defeat, will not accept a potential result in which they lose?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALUYST: It's massively destabilizing to our democracy because it undercuts its integrity. And let's be clear. Republicans are doing this without evidence out of fealty to a president who is acting like a demagogue, who most of the Republicans in elected office recognize is lying both to himself and to the American people, but they're doing it out of fear.

And the fact that 126 Republicans signed on to the amicus brief that got smacked down by the Supreme Court, means that we've got an autocrat caucus in this country that would actively try to overturn the results of a (inaudible) election. And it's a disgrace. It doesn't reflect the country but it does, unfortunately, represent this Republican Party.

CABRERA: Margaret, exactly 20 years ago today, it was Al Gore who conceded the 2000 election, right. That was a much, much closer race. It came down to just 537 votes, but he accepted the result after a definitive Supreme Court defeat. I want to play what he said this morning when Jake Tapper asked if he ever regretted conceding.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: No, I have not. You know, Winston Churchill once said of the American people. He said they generally do the right thing after first exhausting every available alternative and there were no remaining alternatives after a final Supreme Court decision. The only -- there is no intermediate step between a final Supreme Court decision on a matter of this sort and violent revolution.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: President Trump and the vast majority of Republicans still are not relenting. After a Friday Supreme Court loss, the Texas GOP chairman basically floated secession. So, where does this end?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, Ana, I went on to work in the White House of George W. Bush after that election, and I will say, I have never thought more highly of Al Gore, especially with this kind of historic context.

[17:30:05]

And even then, with that incredibly graceful concession that was true to the spirit of the founding and the transition of a peaceful transition of power, there was still a very strong lack of Democrats and progressive who continued to believe that George W. Bush's presidency was illegitimate all throughout George W. Bush's presidency.

Now, imagine if Al Gore had not had that kind of concession, that kind of a graceful and appropriate peaceful transition of power. That's what we've got now. And, you know, if that's your baseline, add 20 years of partisanship, hyperpolarization, and fraying of our civic discourse and our faith in institutions, we have got a recipe --

CABRERA: And social media.

AVLON: Sure.

HOOVER: And so we've got a recipe for a lot of instability that, let alone the pandemic. This is really truly problematic.

AVLON: But to answer your specific question, I mean, this is specific to this party at this time. I mean, Democrats in 2000, Al Gore won the popular vote and George W. Bush won a critical state by 537 votes where his brother was governor, and still Republicans --

HOOVER: Still won it.

AVLON: -- still won and the Democrats in the Senate abided by it after the Electoral College vote and Al Gore signed off. Allen West, the head of the Texas GOP, who you just cited, to float civil secession after talk of civil war.

The Arizona GOP tweeting to its followers asking if folks would be willing to die to overturn the results of the election. That's a sickness in our politics, specifically in the Republican Party. And the terrible irony, is of course, it's the party of Lincoln, but now in name only. You've got folks advocating secession? We did that once before. The Republicans were on the right side of history there. They're on the wrong side of history now.

HOOVER: You asked where it ends, Ana, and I'll just add -- sorry, but I'll just add, as a Republican, you know, I have never been a very strong supporter of President Trump.

I have never felt farther from the Republican Party than this interregnum period where I don't recognize people that I used to sit at tables with, that worked with me in the George W. Bush White House, that are -- have signed on, gone on to be as members of Congress, signed on to that that amicus brief to the Supreme Court to overturn the election.

This is -- this is -- this ends not well for the Republican Party, I think. And that's --

CABRERA: I talked to a focus group of people who had not made up their mind on who they were going to vote for, independents, majority of them were independents, some are Republicans, some were identified as Democrats as far as party affiliation.

And one of the consistent themes that I was hearing from them was they wanted somebody who was going to heal the country, help unify. They were tired of division. And now, tomorrow vice president or I should say, President-elect Joe Biden will deliver remarks on the Electoral College. And, you know, they're meeting tomorrow. So what message should he offer, John?

AVLON: Look, and I'm an independent and I think he should continue to hit the notes he has through the end of the campaign and since winning the presidency. He has ran as a uniter not as a divider. He needs to talk about how our country's character is stronger than any divisive demagogues who try to divide us.

And that the founders warned against people who would pretend to be super patriots and divide Americans against one another. And that we need to rise above those passions. We need to find common ground and common purpose and move forward to deal with the real challenges we have as a country, including an ongoing pandemic.

This virus of denialism about elections and COVID is crazy talk. But Biden has got to help elevate the country. And guess what, the good news is, leadership matters. It does.

CABRERA: Margaret, do you think there will be backlash for Republicans who continue with this, you know, conspiracy theory about election fraud?

HOOVER: The reckoning is always with the voters, Ana. And we'll have to see what happens. Frankly, in this new era, I think a lot remains unsettled. We don't know how the Senate will go. We don't know what will happen.

I mean, there's a real possibility that -- and I still hold out hope that we could have a new era of really pragmatic bipartisan legislation in the next two years. I think because Biden by Republicans is actually not seen as somebody who could be a two-term president. He is seen as a transitional figure.

I think there's an opportunity for Republicans to reset the deck if they hope to retake the White House in four more years. So, I mean, the answer is, there are too many unknowns yet but there are many who are holding out hope because there are just enough who believe it is time to move on from Donald Trump.

CABRERA: Quickly, John, if you have one last word.

AVLON: It's going to take leadership on the part of those senators as well, to not by cowed by the base, to not to be intimidated by hyper- partisanship, but to do what they know is right in their hearts and to actually try to solve problems in the name of the national interest, not special interest.

[17:35:05]

That hurdle should not be so high, but it seems insurmountable high for so many of these folks in Congress, despite the fact they were elected to do the opposite, solve problems, represent all of your constituents not just your party.

CABRERA: Hoovalon, Margaret Hoover, John Avlon, good to have you here. Thanks.

HOOVER: Thanks, Ana.

And we have more breaking news on a very busy Sunday evening. "The Washington Post" reporting Russian government hackers have targeted U.S. government agencies. What could they be after and what could this reported escalation mean? A live report is next here in the "CNN NEWSROOM."

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CABRERA: Breaking news in to CNN. The U.S. Commerce Department has now confirmed it was hacked and is the victim of a data breach. CNN senior national security correspondent Alex Marquardt is with us. What do we know, Alex?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: Well, Ana, this looks like the latest in what are very much ongoing significant attacks by Russia against the United States. We often talk about Russia's attacks in the context of elections but it's important to note that it goes well beyond that.

[17:40:06]

There are consistent regular attacks by Russia against government networks, against private networks. What we know about this attack is that the Commerce Department confirmed that there was a data breach in one of their bureaus.

"The Washington Post" has also reported that the Treasury Department was also targeted. Treasury did not comment to us but the Commerce Department said that they did ask the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security's cyber arm known as CISA to investigate.

CISA did also confirm the breach in their statement. They said that there was recently discovered activity on government networks and that they have offered what they call technical assistance.

Now, Ana, we should note this comes after another major attack that Russia is suspected of carrying out against a very well-known global cyber security firm called FireEye in which the actors got in and stole some of their hacking tools.

One source said that the leading suspect is Russia in that situation. And "The Washington Post" is reporting that that same actor known as APT29 is also behind this targeting of the Commerce and Treasury Departments. Now, we should note that the recently fired director of CISA, of that cyber arm, his name is Chris Krebs.

He was fired by the president after calling the U.S. election the safest and most secure in American history, he has just tweeted about this as well, calling the attack today a pretty large-scale hack. He also goes on to say this thing is still early, I suspect. Let's let the pros work on it.

The pros, he means his former colleagues at CISA who he says are more than well-equipped to deal with it. But, Ana, this is a reminder that Russian hackers are very talented, they are very active, and they do a lot more than just attack our elections, Ana.

CABRERA: And there's obviously a lot more to learn about what they stole and what the end game is in this case. Thank you, Alex Marquardt. We know you're going to keep digging for us. With the Electoral College about to affirm President-elect Joe Biden's

victory, we'll take a look inside this critical vote that's often overlooked, set to take place tomorrow. And we'll tell you what it all means, next.

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[17:45:00]

CABRERA: Following most presidential elections, few Americans may keep track of when the Electoral College actually votes. Perhaps even fewer understand this arcane constitutional procedure that comes weeks after the popular vote.

But like so many things in the era of Donald Trump, tomorrow's Electoral College vote demands our attention. The president is certainly watching. He continues to insist the election was stolen. It wasn't. He continues to insist it's not over. It is.

CNN senior political writer and analyst Harry Enten is here now to break it all down. Harry, when we vote, we're technically not actually voting for the president, right?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICAL WRITER AND ANALYST: Yes, that's right. You know, when we go in on Election Day or perhaps before Election Day if we're early voting, what we're technically doing is voting for a slate of electors who represent a particular candidate, right.

So, we vote for Joe Biden's slate or we voted for Donald Trump's slate. And what's important to keep in mind is that all the states combined have 538 electors. They make up the Electoral College, and you need a majority to win, 270 electors.

And obviously on Election Day this year, after all the votes were counted, we saw that Joe Biden had 306 electors and that's 306 in the Electoral College.

CABRERA: Okay, procedurally, brings up to speed about what's happened since Election Day.

ENTEN: Right. So, you know, normally we wouldn't be paying very much attention, right. But over the past few weeks you might have heard all this stuff about certification, right, certification of the vote. And that's essentially what's been going on over the last month and some change, right.

Each of the states have been making their final counts and they've been certifying not only which candidate has won, but which of the slates have won. So in New York, for example, it might be Joe Biden won and his slate of electors won.

CABRERA: Explain more about these winning slates and how they come into play tomorrow.

ENTEN: Right. So what will essentially occur tomorrow is that the winning slates will gather, in some states they will do so virtually. And what they will do is they will meet and they will vote. Throughout the day we'll see different slates meeting in different states and they will be voting. These electors will be casting their votes.

CABRERA: But there is such a thing as a faithless elector, something we're all learning more and more about this year. Explain what that is and how it could impact tomorrow.

ENTEN: Right. So, you know, the drama just keeps on going on, right Ana? Look, tomorrow what we'll see is that most of the people who are pledged to an individual candidate will vote for their candidate. But some states, in fact, allow electors not to vote for their given candidate.

But before we get all carried away, what I should point out is Joe Biden has 306 electoral votes and the most ever faithless electors was 10 and that was back in 2016 except for when a candidate died in 1872. So, yes, there are faithless electors, but I don't really think that they'll be playing too much of a big role tomorrow.

CABRERA: And I know some states actually have penalties for people who go rogue, shall we say.

ENTEN: Correct.

CABRERA: So even, you know, when this is over tomorrow, it's not over over. What is the final step?

ENTEN: Right. You know, the drama that just keeps going on and on and on. Look, Congress is going to meet in a little less than a month and what will essentially occur is Congress will count the votes. There will be a joint session. They'll meet. They'll sort of try to declare the winner, right.

[17:50:01

Now, I should point out that challenges are allowed. You might see some House Republicans, for example, lodge some challenges. But what's key to recognize here is that you need a majority of both the House and the Senate to agree in order to overturn any state's results.

And even though the Senate right now is controlled by Republicans, there are probably not enough Republicans there to overthrow the results. But even if there were, the House is controlled by Democrats. So, Joe Biden is going to win this thing.

We're obviously going to count the electors tomorrow, then we'll see how Congress counts and certifies those votes a little less than a month from now. But Joe Biden is the next president of the United States. He is president-elect for a reason.

CABRERA: Harry Enten, it is good to see you. It has been too long my friend. Here we go.

ENTEN: I know, right. My goodness gracious.

CABRERA: Good to have you. Have a great one. ENTEN: Nice to see you.

CABRERA: Even after the Electoral College vote is recorded, President Trump insists his legal challenges will go on. Republican election lawyer and CNN contributor Ben Ginsberg is joining us now. Ben, here is what President Trump said this weekend during an interview with Fox News.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: We've proven it. But no judge has had the courage, including the Supreme Court, I am so disappointed in them, no judge including the Supreme Court of the United States has had the courage to allow it to be heard.

The Supreme Court, all they did is say we don't have standing. So they're saying essentially that the president of the United States and Texas and these other states, great states, they don't have standing. Here is the point. They're winning these things on little technicalities like a thing called standing. They're saying the president of the United States does not have standing.

KILMEADE: Right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Little technicalities? Ben, what's your response to what we just heard from the president?

BEN GINSBERG, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it takes sort of a special viewpoint to come to a conclusion like the president just did. The lack of standing that they reached in the Texas case and then just four days before in the Pennsylvania case, were the briefest and most summary of dismissals possible.

That is a signal in lawyer-talk about don't waste our time with these theories that you're spouting out. So, for the president to say it's not over ignores the reality of what the Supreme Court just said.

CABRERA: So for laymen, explain what standing means to the Supreme Court, why they declined to hear the case brought by the Texas attorney general.

GINSBERG: Well, under the Constitution and the whole body of law for the last 200 years, you have to have an interest in the case. You have to have a judicially recognizable interest in being able to bring that. And what the court was saying is that the U.S. Constitution gives to each state the ability to run its own elections. So that Texas can't tell Pennsylvania what to do in terms of running its election.

CABRERA: And bottom line, no court has yet accepted the president's claim of cheating in any of the states he lost. In fact, the claims have been adjudicated in dozens of courts across the country. Trump's team has now lost, I think it is more than 50 cases both in state and federal courts all the way up to the Supreme Court. How damaging is it for him to keep claiming he has proof of election fraud when no courts agree?

GINSBERG: Well, he is the master of branding. But this is loss after loss after loss. And the 50 cases have been before more than 80 judges because there are appellate courts that have more than one judge. And there has been a healthy number of judges who were appointed by this president.

He bragged about how the U.S. Supreme Court was his court now with his appointments, and they've shut him down completely. So, this is -- it is over as a legal matter.

CABRERA: You've been speaking out about this for months, in fact, right before the election you wrote a "Washington Post" op-ed accusing your fellow Republicans of trying to disenfranchise voters with their unproven claims, again, prior to the election of widespread fraud. You could see this coming, but I wonder if you think it's gone further than you predicted?

GINSBERG: Oh, I think it has gone further. I mean, this Texas case is the perfect example of the way Republicans have abandoned core principles. One of the core principles of Republicans has always been states' rights, that a large federal response is not as good as the states being able to judge their own affairs.

And that's been a bedrock conservative principle. Somehow here, 18 attorney generals and 126 Republicans in Congress abandoned that principle and asked for relief. It was essentially a federal, national relief. And it would allow other states and the federal government to poke into the core election function of the four states named in the suit. And that's an abandonment of principle that I never would have envisioned.

CABRERA: I'm up against the end of the hour here but I just want to confirm, triple check with you for our viewers too, when the president says he's going to keep fighting on with legal challenges, is there any more legal avenue to pursue?

[17:55:06

GINSBERG: Well, you can always file an additional case on a slightly different count in a different state. But after the thorough repudiation by Trump-appointed judges on the district courts, on the court of appeals, on the U.S. Supreme Court, it's not going to be successful.

And the key to this, is they still haven't brought forward any evidence of the actual fraud that the president has said all along undergirds what he's claiming.

CABRERA: Right. Ben Ginsberg, I really appreciate your time and expertise. Thank you.

GINSBERG: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: This hour, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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