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Study: Many Black Americans Hesitant About Getting Vaccine; U.S. Lawmakers Near Deal on Long-Awaited COVID Relief Plan; Experts: QAnon Conspiracies Threaten Democracy; U.S. Officials Suspect Russians in Hack of Government Agencies; Navalny Reacts to Russia's Chemical Weapons Operations; Socially-Distant Santa Has Christmas Message. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired December 16, 2020 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

ALEXANDRE WHITE, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY AND HISTORY OF MEDICINE, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: Very real legacies of racist, medical practices, experimentation and how discrimination and structural racism has shaped interactions with the health community more broadly.

ROBYN CURNOW, CNN ANCHOR: So, how is it important -- how important is it that we are seeing a number of African-American medical professionals come forward and take the vaccine first, for example and publicly. Does that make a difference?

WHITE: Yes, I think it's tremendously important. I mean, a large component of this vaccine hesitancy comes from the fact that many black and broadly minority Americans don't feel that this vaccine has been produced with their best interest in mind. And this, you know, harkens back to the concerns of being guinea pigs for broader pharmaceuticals products in the past and also broader legacies of medical experimentation.

So, I think it's very important that people step forward. But I also think it's really important that there is collaboration with public health actors more broadly to not only educate the public, but provide transparent, clear information about these vaccines and collaborate with communities to deliver them more effectively.

CURNOW: Now that's my next question. Because as you rightly so, the U.S. health care system is inherently unequal on many levels. Black Americans certainly bear the brunt of that. So, how concerned are you that that minority communities might find themselves at the back of the queue in some places for the vaccine or left out of the distribution in some way? Is that also part of the concern?

WHITE: Yes, that is a huge part of my concern. I think the concern broadly, you know, is that minority communities are being left out of the conversation and then ultimately potentially left out of access to this vaccine. Which is why many of us are working on these questions of vaccine access equity. You know, a large aspect of this current mistrust comes from not only histories of medical racism, but also from the exclusion of minority communities and voices from decision-making and collaboration health efforts. And too often, public health actors are perceived to be overly authoritarian and top down in their actions. Imposing policy rather than engaging in equal exchange and dialogue.

And as we further develop plans for the vaccine rollout for the general public, and as it, you know, continues to commence amongst the most vulnerable population and the healthcare workers, we really need a change and transform vaccine delivery enterprise by involving communities as active partners and not passive subjects.

CURNOW: Yes, and certainly I think the messaging will change under a Biden administration. We have seen some very misleading messaging coming out from the Trump administration, from President Trump himself, in the past few months. So with that in mind, how can this incoming Biden administration, who is certainly taking this seriously, how can health care authorities and this incoming administration ease African-American concerns and ensure that there are no hiccups here? That this is about quality?

WHITE: Yes, I think, you know the first thing to do, and it's already happening, but I think we need to push harder. Is that we have to begin right now to seek the council, and important communities of color that may have a historic reticence towards public health and engage community leaders from across the board and constructive and equitable dialogue to develop strategies for vaccine delivery and disseminate accurate information.

You know, I think we're seeing the effects of the Biden administration already as the, you know, pre-election anxieties around the efficacy and safety of the vaccine are starting to wane.

But I think, you know, what is really important is that we reckon very seriously with these broader histories of medical mistrust rooted in moments of racist violence and broader inequalities. Confront them and then actually, you know, use this very, very important, critical vaccine rollout as an opportunity to both deliver lifesaving and critical vaccine, but also repair mistrust that's, you know, not new and has rooted very much in the historical legacy.

CURNOW: Yes, certainly is. Alexandre White, we really appreciate you joining us and giving us your perspective. Thank you.

WHITE: Thank you so much.

CURNOW: After months of sparring and stagnation, a stimulus deal could at last be on the horizon on Capitol Hill. Congressional leaders from both sides have expressed confidence that a deal could be reached while nothing has been finalized just yet. Expected to include an extension of jobless benefits, loans for small businesses and money for vaccine distribution. Eleni Giokos joins us now live with more on all of that. Hi, Eleni, what can you tell us?

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Robyn. Now look, the pressure is absolutely on in Washington right now. And you know, months of negotiations of a complete collapse in talks. And here we are, we have a couple of days left of legislative federal spending which comes to an end on Friday. We also know lawmakers are set to close for recess over the holiday season.

[04:35:00]

So this is what we have right now. After months of negotiations bipartisan lawmakers have come together and put a $908 billion package together, and they've split the bill into two portions. Here's where we stand right now. $748 billion has been earmarked for the priority areas of the enhanced unemployment area of $300 a week, as well as assistance to small businesses, and billions of dollars will be earmarked for vaccine rollouts.

The second portion bill is $160 billion, the most contentious issues. The things that have really been sticking points for both sides of the aisle. Democrats and Republicans really going head to head on this. We're looking at protection liabilities for businesses and we're also looking at aid for states and local governments.

So the thinking here is that lawmakers will be able to vote on these two bills separately. So if the one doesn't make it through because no compromise has been reached yet, at least a large portion of the money will be filtered down to the most vulnerable of Americans. So there's still a few steps to take.

First there either needs to be a decision. We know Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said no one is going home until a decision has been made, until a stimulus bill has been finalized. But we've heard the self-imposed deadlines before, but time is absolutely running out.

Then it still needs to be voted on in the House floor and as well as the Senate. And then only will we have something tangible to work with. What the fallout here is, Robyn, that 12 million Americans are going to be falling out of unemployment benefits come Christmas day and also up to 5 million Americans could be facing eviction by January. That is why it is so important to finally get a stimulus plan in place.

CURNOW: Thanks for that update there. Eleni Giokos in Johannesburg.

So the pandemic has put extra pressure on the U.S. postal services. Well and that could impact the delivery of holiday gifts. The USPS says they're dealing with an historic record of holiday volume, plus there's limited staff. They're warning there could be temporary delays in getting parcels delivered on time. Something they say is being felt by shippers across the board.

So you're watching CNN. Still to come, from the darkest corners of the internet to the highest office of the land, QAnon conspiracy theories are spreading like wildfire. What one Republican lawmaker is trying to do about it.

[04:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CURNOW: Great to have you back. It's 40 minutes past the hour.

A new study on the disinformation network known as QAnon shows just how quickly conspiracy theories can spread from the fringes of the internet, to the highest levels of government. Drew Griffin reports now on the rapid spread of these lies and how they can have a serious and potentially dangerous consequence. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A new report released first to CNN and shows what researchers claim is a frighteningly quick pipeline of lies, initially pushed by QAnon communities that have become part of the mainstream, with help from one big supporter.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've heard these are people that love our country.

GRIFFIN: Donald Trump has retweeted QAnon influencers and followers dozens of times in his presidency, an amplification that brings the diluted and dangerous collection of bizarre conspiracy theories into the highest levels of government. Researchers at the Network Contagion Research Institute, which investigates deception and hate in social media, found QAnon's disinformation operations attack specific pillars of democracy at strategic moments and hijack the national conversation.

JOEL FINKELSTEIN, DIRECTOR, NETWORK CONTAGION RESEARCH INSTITUTE: It's my opinion that QAnon is amongst the most dangerous groups we study, if not the most dangerous.

GRIFFIN: Joe Finkelstein, who directed the research, says the capacity for violence in some of its followers is a public threat. Extremism expert Cynthia Miller-Idriss, who collaborated on the study, says much of the alarming spread of QAnon is tied to President Trump.

CYNTHIA MILLER-IDRISS, EXTREMISM EXPERT: For many of them, they do believe that Trump is the messianic figure. A lot of people start to believe in some components that are promoted in QAnon disinformation networks without believing the entire conspiracy theory.

GRIFFIN: Among the beliefs, Trump is fighting a cabal of Satan- worshiping elites that practice pedophilia and child sacrifice. That George Floyd's death was staged. That the pandemic is fake, created solely to inject us with vaccines containing radio frequency identification chips. And perhaps most damaging of all, that the election was stolen.

FINKELSTEIN: QAnon, as a disinformation network, has grown like a virus.

GRIFFIN: QAnon conspirators have also learned how to influence the president's thinking, conspiracy theories, started by or pushed by QAnon and its hashtags have been retweeted by the president, including Dominion voting, that somehow millions of votes got switched.

Obama-gate, that the Obama administration spied on the Trump campaign. Then there is subpoena Obama. On May 13th, a tweet from @followthe17, as in Q, the 17th letter of the alphabet, shows just how quickly a conspiracy can go from the dark corner of the internet to the White House.

FINKELSTEIN: If we all put out "Subpoena Obama" as a hashtag, he essentially said good things will happen if we did this.

GRIFFIN: Use the hashtag everywhere, the tweet said, and they did. "Subpoena Obama" went viral, at times tweeting 4,000 times an hour. Right-wing media picks it up. One day later, Donald Trump weighs in. In a tweet to Sen. Lindsey Graham saying, the first person I would call to testify about the biggest political crime is former President Obama.

In other words, "Subpoena Obama." Success for the QAnon crowd. @followthe17 would retweet Trump's post with a wink. Trump then tweeted, thank you to all of my great keyboard warriors. You are better and far more brilliant than anyone on Madison Avenue.

REP. DENVER RIGGLEMAN (R-VA): I think the technical term is bat-shit crazy, but that's what it is. But people are starting to believe this.

GRIFFIN: Outgoing Republican Congressman Denver Riggleman is planning to read the NCRI report findings into the congressional record. He's in the minority of Republicans willing to stand up to Trump and QAnon and says most of his fellow Republicans say nothing because of money.

RIGGLEMAN: They're willing to do it. If they want to get re-elected, I think some of them think we have to say that this election was fraudulent, we have to go along with President Trump based on the fundraising.

GRIFFIN: Republicans are raising hundreds of millions of dollars since the election, but Riggleman says at a cost, a rapidly spreading movement based on dangerous lies.

RIGGLEMAN: I just can't seem to get people to understand that this is the language of radicalization.

GRIFFIN: Drew Griffin, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[04:45:00]

CURNOW: Strong piece there. Thank to Drew for that.

So officials are scrambling to deal with the fallout. As what's being described as one of the most significant breaches of the U.S. government in years. Russian linked hackers are suspected of breaching multiple federal agencies including the Department of Homeland Security, Agriculture and Commerce. President Trump has been skeptical in the past about Russia's cyber activities. But John Avlon is here to give us a reality check -- John.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's a massive hack with suspected Russian hackers compromising some of the U.S. government's most critical databases, including the Departments of Homeland Security, Treasury, Defense, State and Commerce. Maybe even Los Alamos, where nuclear weapons are designed. We still don't know how big this could be, but make no mistake, this is not just espionage. This is 21st century warfare.

The Trump administration is not the first to have an attack on its watch and it won't be the last, but it is the first and hopefully the last to have a president so easily played, so disastrously naive on the subject. Because remember, it was Donald Trump who kept advocating the truly dumb idea of forming a joint cybersecurity unit with, wait for it, the Russians just because Vladimir Putin kept suggesting it.

This was rebuked even by Republicans with Senator Lindsey Graham calling it not the dumbest idea I've ever heard but it's pretty close. While John McCain had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MCCAIN, FORMER U.S. SENATOR: I am sure that Vladimir Putin could be of enormous assistance in that effort since he's doing the hacking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: That joke turned out to be true. But of course, it's part of a line of denial when it comes to Russia and Trump. Like the time he took Putin's word over our intelligence agencies on the interference in the '16 election.

TRUMP: He just said it's not Russia. I don't see any reason why it would be.

AVLON: Everyone in the room knew this was BS except perhaps the president. If you are still not convinced by the way, check out the five volume bipartisan Senate intel committee report that found Russia did extensively interfere in the '16 election with the goal of electing Trump. But nonetheless, Trump and his hardcore supporters have engaged in a persistent disinformation campaign to call that reality a hoax.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CURNOW: So Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny tells CNN he is sure President Vladimir Putin ordered elite agents to follow him prior to his poisoning back in August. The anticorruption crusader was reacting to a joint CNN, Bellingcat investigation into his poisoning. Christiane Amanpour spoke to Navalny about another part of the investigation. Here that is.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: What about what Bellingcat has discovered as well, and that is that, in the investigation, found out that actually the Kremlin still runs a very sophisticated chemical weapons operation, having told the world that it was no longer doing that? What more can you tell us about that? And why would they need a chemical weapon, you know, production facility and stockpiling?

ALEXEY NAVALNY, RUSSIAN OPPOSITION LEADER: Yes, from the perspective of a big picture, this is the most dangerous part, because -- well, me personally, of course, I'm very worried about this part of investigate -- of the investigation connected with me.

But the fact that Russia is developing the very, very advanced type of chemical weapon is -- it's absolutely horrible. Because, back in the '90s, actually, Russia was one of the countries who's really pushing the idea of the total, you know, banning chemical weapon and eliminating every -- every single gram of chemical weapon all over the world.

And it was absolutely a right position. And now we have several institutions -- and we know it from the investigation of Bellingcat -- at least three of them, who are developing both chemical weapon and ways of delivering of this chemical weapon, including this nano- encapsulation and other sophisticated ways to poison people, to kill people.

And so chemical weapon, I know from my own experiences, it's a horrible thing. They don't -- you don't have any useful way of using it. So definitely, they are developing it for killing people, for killing people in the hidden way.

And kind of additional bonus of using chemical weapons against your opponents, that you're just terrifying people, because people are afraid of this. Because some of people, they can be brave enough not to be in prison or to being shot or something like, because it's something, you know, you're facing in the real life, and you read from the news. But the same -- the idea of, you know, just drop dead with touching something is terrifying people.

And you mentioned that we know about several attempts of killing people with the Novichok and other chemical weapon.

[04:50:00]

And we know it because these people have survived. But we have no idea how many cases, how many successful cases was made.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CURNOW: An you can read a complete account of this investigation on CNN.com.

You're watching CNN. Still to come, tens of millions of people on the U.S. East Coast are being warned to get ready as a powerful storm approach. Full details ahead.

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CURNOW: Welcome back. So the coronavirus has side lined more U.S. football with the cancelation of this season's first college bowl game. Southern Methodist was scheduled to face off on Saturday against the University of Texas, San Antonio, in the Frisco Bowl. Well this marks the 11th Bowl game to be cancelled due to the pandemic. UTSA is now set to play in the first responder Bowl on December 26th. No word yet on who their opponent will be.

And right now more than 60 million people in the U.S. are under winter storm watches and warnings from here in Georgia all the way up to New England.

[04:55:00]

This is a powerful, powerful nor'easter and is expected to strike later on today and into Thursday. So take a look at this. You're looking at pictures from Pennsylvania which has signed a disaster emergency proclamation. Boston and New York could see a foot of snow.

And Santa Claus is practicing social distancing this year as he prepared for Christmas during the pandemic. Thousands around the world usually flock to Santa's Village in Artic Circle in Northern Finland, but this year there are far, far fewer people of course. Those who did make the trip, met with Santa behind a plexiglass screen. As you can here, oh, and he had a message of reassurance though for children and families this holiday season.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANTA CLAUS: Some children have been a little worried about coming Christmas during this very special situation in the world. I can tell you that all the preparations here at the Arctic Circle in Lapland are going extremely well. But we all have to be very good and nice. And we have to follow all public health recommendations and social distancing rules. We've all got to find new ways to be in contact with our friends and relatives and loved ones. So be nice to each other. Christmas is coming soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CURNOW: Thanks, Santa, for that. So workers at the Post Office in Santa's Village say they've received letter from children and visitors from around the world, including those who couldn't make the trip to Finland this year.

So thanks for joining me. I'm Robyn Curnow. "EARLY START" with my colleagues Christine Romans and Laura Jarrett starts right now.

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