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Cybersecurity Agencies War on Threat after Russian Hack; COVID- 19 Infections Soar in Tennessee; Biden Adds to Cabinet. Aired 9:30- 10a

Aired December 18, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Stand idly by in the face of cyber assaults on our nation.

Of course, Jim and Poppy, any sort of response from Biden is going to depend on what these attackers actually did and they're still trying to figure that out.

Jim. Poppy.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Alex Marquardt, thanks very much.

Well, some Senate Republicans don't have an issue with the president's silence on this matter. Senators Marco Rubio, Josh Hawley both say that more needs to be learned before commenting further. However, one GOP senator is calling on Trump to speak out definitively. That is Utah's Mitt Romney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): What I find most astonishing is that a cyber hack of this nature is really the modern equivalent of almost of Russian bombers reportedly flying undetected over the entire country. And in this setting not to have the White House aggressively speaking out and protesting and taking punitive action is really, really quite extraordinary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Yes. The president's comments on a lot of things, including Fox News ratings, not on this yet.

Joining me now to discuss this issue and much more, former House Intelligence Chairman Mike Rogers.

Mike, always good to have you on the program.

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Hey, thanks, Jim. Good to be here. SCIUTTO: So first in terms of attribution and the U.S. is not

officially attributed this to Russia at the point. And it's important that you know 100 percent before you go forward. But based on what you know, and you've been briefed on attacks like this before through the years, does this -- is this consistent with capabilities and intentions of a state actor such as Russia?

ROGERS: Yes, it is, Jim. And I'm still engaged in the private sector in cybersecurity. So the APT-29 is the -- has all the signatures. And that's the SVR, the Russian intelligence service fingerprints, all over it.

And so two things that they have to look at now. And, by the way, talking to some folks yesterday, it's bad, but it's also getting worse. They're finding other areas, other entry points and more government agencies that may have been impacted. And so what you see this mad scramble is, Jim, is saying, OK, now they're in, are they trying to just steal things and they did set it up for exfiltration of data, meaning they had outside servers they were going to send data to to get back to Russia?

And, remember, in June they were starting -- trying to steal COVID-19 plan (INAUDIBLE). So we know they have the capability.

The other is, were they trying to cause some destruction or disruption in some of these systems?

So, I mean, there's a lot going on. These folks are actually up to their eyeballs trying to figure this out. And that's just the government side. As you pointed out earlier, the private sector has a lot to lose in this as well.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ROGERS: And that's exactly what I think people are trying to figure out. Did they only go after defense contractors and telecommunications companies? What's the broad scope? What are they doing once they're in? By the way, they can watch how you go in and try to get rid of them. That's how sophisticated this attack was. That makes it really difficult to get them out. That's why the government said, hey, just shut it off for now, which, by the way, is not practical in every agency.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ROGERS: It's a -- it is as big a problem and I've seen.

SCIUTTO: Tell us how, based on what we know now, this one is different from past. And is it in your view an escalation in what is already a cyber war that's going on below the surface between the U.S., China, Russia, other countries? But is this one, in your view, a qualitative escalation on the part of Russia if it is publicly attributed to Russia?

ROGERS: I think it is. Now, we've seen these supply chain attacks before. If you remember the big -- the first big, public one was Target. And, by the way, that was not a nation state but using nation state techniques by going through the HVAC supplier.

Well, this is the same kind of thing. They used a vendor to the government and to these some 400 Fortune 500 companies, got into the vendor and then used their administrative control, meaning your -- they -- they're -- they're sending updates to your whole network. They rode that into these agencies. That's pretty sophisticated.

And it was so sophisticated, Jim, they even had the signatures rights, meaning this had to be really isolated per event because they were able to duplicate the signatures so the receiving system would look at that and say, oh, that's -- that's coming from the -- from -- in this case Solar Winds. It's got the right signature. We verify it, let it in. That's how sophisticated this was.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

ROGERS: And the depth of this thing and the -- how many places that they hit and kept ratcheting it up, that tells me purposefully meant to try to have this much impact.

And, again, the question they haven't answered yet, were they going to turn some things off, were they going to cause some problems and, you know, you can imagine the data they would want to steal in Treasury, even sanctions against Russia and all those conversations. Imagine that.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ROGERS: Well, what if they wanted to turn some things off and cause some economic harm.

[09:35:01]

That part I don't think we've determined yet. But that's what's at stake here. This is a big deal.

SCIUTTO: It's a concern, right is -- critical infrastructure getting in and turning off things like power grids.

Let me ask you this. Through two administrations now the U.S. has tried heavy sanctions on Russia, which we know carry an economic impact right up the senior Russian officials. That did not deter if this is indeed Russia from this. And two years ago, the U.S. imposed this defend forward strategy in effect, you know, going on offense, right, to deter -- going on offense in cyberspace here, and that apparently didn't work.

What does President-elect Joe Biden need to do to stop this, in your view?

ROGERS: Well, the first thing I would do -- listen, if you're going to go punch your neighbor, best to hit the weight room for a little while first, right? So we're not ready to defend our networks. And so in this recent NDA, there's a bill which I testified in support of that Bret Langovin (ph) supported and introduced to give a central authority at the White House for cybersecurity for the country. We still operate in silos across all of these agencies in a way that

no big organization could survive. And this is how, they find vulnerabilities like this, take advantage of it.

So the first thing I'd do if I were the incoming president is get your cyber czar in place and get them working on common, good security practices across all the agencies and then coordinate this effort between defense and offense. So strengthen your defense.

And then there are ways that we would have to be even more aggressive about flicking the Russians in the forehead before they think about launching these kinds of attacks. And, remember, something that escalates this problem beyond cyber into some kind of kinetic action, but we're going to have to show that there are consequences for doing what you've just done to the United States of America. We cannot tolerate it. We shouldn't tolerate it. There are other countries who are watching with -- you know, waiting their turn to see what happens on the consequence.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.

ROGERS: Because China's capability not where Russia is but getting better. There are, you know, Iran is getting better. Other people who want to do us harm are getting better. They're going to watch what the -- what the consequences are.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ROGERS: And this needs to happen soon. The president should come out and say something. He doesn't have to give all the details, but he should say something and put them on notice so that when the new team comes in they can grab that ball and run with it.

SCIUTTO: Mike Rogers, none of us should underestimate the importance of this, and we appreciate you making that clear. Thanks so much.

ROGERS: Yes. Thanks, Jim.

HARLOW: COVID-19 cases are soaring across the country, but in Tennessee they are seeing the highest transmission rate in the nation. Why is that? A doctor who leads an infectious disease department is going to join us from Memphis on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:42:14]

HARLOW: We know the horrible news is that the U.S. continues to set records for COVID infections and hospitalizations every day, but there is one state that has seen a staggering increase in transmission. Tennessee has the highest rate of COVID-19 infections and transmission per capita in the country. You can see this on the map. You see the state is dark red with new cases jumping since the previous week. Yesterday, the governor blamed the surge largely on people ignoring advice from officials.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. BILL LEE (R-TN): The holidays have caught up with us. Decisions that some made during Thanksgiving are having a severe reality.

One thing that this vaccine will not solve, one thing that it will not cure, is selfishness, or indifference to what's happening to our neighbors around us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Joining me now from Memphis is Dr. Steve Threlkeld.

Thank you for being here.

You're in the middle of all of this. Do you agree with the governor's assessment as to the why?

DR. STEVE THRELKELD, MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF INFECTIOUS DISEASE, BAPTIST MEMORIAL HEALTH CARE: Well, and thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

It's very -- certainly complicated. I mean through all the restrictions, through mandates and so forth, they can be very important. But, at the same time, it's always been difficult to legislate common sense and morality. And, you know, I see people being admitted to the ICU every day who say, I've done such a good job up until the dinner party I had, you know, ten years ago. And, they're right, that's a very bad idea. And we're seeing a lot of that as people are getting sicker in much larger numbers.

HARLOW: You know, he made knows statements, the governor, saying, you know, people are acting selfishly and they're not, you know, following social distancing, et cetera. But there -- is there not, I mean, a lot more he could have done, right? There's not a statewide mask mandate there. I just wonder what your message might be for him this morning in terms of anything else the government can do.

THRELKELD: Well, I think certainly mandates have been helpful in a lot of places. And so anything we can do I'd be in favor of to cut this sort of -- this nightmare that we're experiencing as the numbers go up. Our hospital has gone from 50 to 160 patients in the hospital. So, yes, I think that's very important.

But I also think that we have to use common sense. And that's something that no governor can impart to us as citizens. We have to be careful. But people just are tired and they're getting together in larger numbers, both in families and friends, and they think, well, I won't get it that way because they're close to me. But they're asymptomatic. They don't know they're giving it to you.

HARLOW: Yes.

THRELKELD: And that's the problem that we're facing, I think.

HARLOW: And we're so close. We're so close to the end. So why not stay healthy and keep your loved ones healthy for a few more months.

You got vaccinated yesterday, as I understand, is that right?

THRELKELD: I did. And I'm doing great. No side effects whatsoever. And I think -- and I think hopefully the health care workers out there getting vaccinated are going to be a message for people because you're not going to sneak up on me with any concerns or potential side effects or problems.

[09:45:06]

And, you know, I discussed a couple of people having a reaction in Britain a week or so ago for about an hour and I made the point that during that hour, 106 people died of coronavirus while we were discussing two people that did great, that we hope that -- that people will be encouraged to get this vaccine.

HARLOW: Yes, that's a good -- that's a good message to people who may be skeptical.

You've talked about this system where you are creaking, that's the word you used, and it's not a shortage of beds, per se, like you can roll more in, you can make more space, but you say it's basically at a tipping point because of the staff, right, and not having enough bodies of experienced people to take care of folks?

THRELKELD: Sure. I mean when we saw the disastrous kind of situations in New York initially, a lot of brave folks got on airplanes and flew to help take care of the situation in New York. Everybody is having difficulty now. There's no -- there's no -- no forces to bring in to help places because everybody is having their own problem, particularly, obviously, here. (INAUDIBLE) in the United States to begin with and we're just seeing it really, unfortunately, play out in a difficult way right now.

HARLOW: Well, hopefully for anyone listening who can help, I mean, you know, you guys clearly, clearly need it.

Dr. Threlkeld, thank you very, very much. And I'm -- I'm glad to hear that you got vaccinated. Thanks very much.

THRELKELD: Thanks for having me.

HARLOW: Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it's happening more and more across the country.

Well, President-elect Joe Biden is making history with his latest cabinet picks, but also narrowing the Democrats' slim majority in the House. We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:51:13]

HARLOW: President-elect Joe Biden's new climate team is taking shape and it's also making history. If confirmed, North Carolina's top environmental official, Michael Regan, would be the first African- American man to lead the agency, to lead the EPA.

And Congresswoman Deb Haaland wouldn't just be the first Native American interior secretary, she would be the first Native American cabinet secretary ever.

CNN's Jessica Dean joins us now.

Jessica, there is -- there are some consequences for Nancy Pelosi's Democratic majority in the House, right, because you now have three members of Congress who have been picked to join the cabinet in the Biden administration.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's exactly right. And that's why Joe Biden had been very hesitant and quite selective about pulling anyone from Congress because now the Democrats, the majority in the House goes to a three-seat vote margin, which is very, very narrow considering what Biden wants to get through Congress when he becomes president.

That being said, Nancy Pelosi issued a statement on Wednesday essentially blessing the selection of Congresswoman Haaland, praising her. Really someone saying it was supposed to act as a green light to everyone that this could go forward.

And let's talk about Representative Deb Haaland for a second. You guys mentioned that if confirmed she will make history as the very first Native American ever to serve in the cabinet. So that would be quite historic, really breaking barriers there.

She tweeted a little bit about this. I want to read part of it to you. She said, a voice like mine has never been a cabinet secretary or at the head of the Department of Interior. Growing up in my mother's Pueblo household made me fierce. I'll be fierce for all of us, our planet and all of our protected land. I am honored and ready to serve.

Haaland, along with Regan and the rest of the key members of Biden's climate team will be formally introduced at an event in Delaware tomorrow, Poppy and Jim.

HARLOW: Jess, Joe Biden and Dr. Jill Biden, they were on with Stephen Colbert last night. What did the president-elect say about working with Republicans going forward, particularly his comments on someone he's known and called a friend, at least in the past, for a long time, and that is South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham.

DEAN: Right. They have a longstanding, personal history together and were personal friends. And, of course, Lindsey Graham has been attacking Biden and Biden talked a little bit about, you know, what that was like. And take a listen to what the president-elect had to say about that relationship.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT FOR THE UNITED STATES: Lindsey has been a -- a personal disappointment because I was a personal friend of his. And I think once this president is no longer in office, I think you're

going to see his impact on the body of politic fade and a lot of these Republicans are going to feel they have much more room to run and cooperate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Now, recently, Senator Graham said that there was a very, very, very narrow path for President Trump forward. And to be fair, acknowledged that he had spoken with Biden, that it was a very pleasant conversation that the two men had. But you heard the president-elect there at the end, he really has -- has made it his hallmark that he wants to return to a more bipartisan way, especially when dealing with the Senate, with Congress. And he certainly hopes that can be the way forward, you guys. We'll see how that all turns out, Jim and Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Yes, well, when you have more than 100 Republican members of Congress challenge the result of an election, you wonder -- you wonder if that's a realistic hope.

DEAN: Right. Right.

HARLOW: Good point.

Jess, thanks for the reporting.

DEAN: Thanks.

HARLOW: The vice president and the surgeon general both getting vaccinated on live television this morning.

[09:54:54]

This as we await potential Emergency Use Authorization for the Moderna vaccine. We're going to have much more on that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Well, French President Emmanuel Macron, yet another world leader who has contracted the virus, now has a fever and a cough and is experiencing fatigue after testing positive. The French government says he was tested after experiencing symptoms. Macron is continuing to work but will self-isolate for a week. Other European leaders who recently met with Macron are also self-isolating as a precaution.

HARLOW: Well, this pandemic has become so bad in South Korea that hundreds of coronavirus patients are right now waiting for hospital beds. The country's health ministry said today there are just 45 intensive care unit beds available across the entire country. At least one COVID-19 patient died in the capitol of Seoul while waiting -- waiting just for a bed.

[10:00:01] Government officials say the surge of cases is overwhelming the system there. They are planning to secure another 160 ICU beds early next month.