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Shutdown Looms as Congress Struggles to Reach Relief Deal; CDC Meeting to Discuss Who will Get Vaccinated Next. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired December 18, 2020 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: On Capitol Hill, leaders there are still scrambling to reach a deal on a $900 billion COVID relief package. Congress faces a midnight deadline to avoid a government shutdown at the very same time and jobless benefits for millions of Americans are also set to expire the day after Christmas.

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. He is joining us now. Manu, what's the latest on the negotiations?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're waiting and there is still no word yet about when a deal may ultimately be reached and no word certainly about when votes may actually happen and also whether President Trump will even sign this into law.

There is optimism still that a deal will be reached. Mitch McConnell, the majority leader of the Senate, went to the floor today, said he believes that they're within reach of a major rescue package, speaking bullishly about the prospects of getting a deal ultimately together here.

But there are still some significant sticking points. We're hearing from Democrats this morning about concerns of Republicans' efforts to constrain the Federal Reserve's emergency lending authority. That is a big sticking point left in the talks. Republicans say that those programs were meant to be wound down. So we'll see how that plays out.

But, overall, the contours of the bill are pretty clear to some extent. We expect the bill to have about a $600 for direct payment to individuals. We do also expect about $300 a week in jobless benefits for people, which is so significant because people are about to see their jobless benefits expire.

[11:35:00]

And do we also expect $330 billion for small business loans.

Now, the reason why, Kate, this is a question about whether the government will shutdown tonight is because leadership had wanted to tie this called relief package on to a bill to keep the government opened past today. But with no agreement, it's uncertain whether they will to do just that or they will have to pass another extension of government funding and punt on the issue of COVID relief for another few days here.

And also, as part of this bill, there's money for vaccine distribution. And, Kate, we're hearing for the first time members of Congress will get vaccinated themselves. One congressman, Don Beyer, plans to get vaccinated as soon as today and the leadership, Nancy Pelosi on the House side, McConnell on the Senate side, plan to get vaccinated themselves in the coming days. So that is coming to Capitol Hill. We'll see if the relief comes to the American people soon. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Great question. Thank you so much, Manu.

Manu has also been reporting there is some talk that there will be money for schools in this COVID relief package. We don't know though how much additional money there will be for schools in the deal. That is one of many big questions right now.

With Joe Biden now promising to get most kids back into classrooms in his first 100 days, how do schools do that?

Joining me right now is Arne Duncan. He's the secretary of education under President Obama. It's good to see you again, Secretary.

How much money do schools need for a majority of them to reopen in- person within the first 100 day? Do you think that's realistic?

ARNE DUNCAN, EDUCATION SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, what schools have been asking since the start of the pandemic was about $250 billion from Congress. But, unfortunately, as you know, there's no stimulus package now and whatever is in there is far short of that. So there's no money. So this is a good start. So anything will be helpful. But is the total amount going to be sufficient to the size of the challenge? Honestly, I don't think it's going to be close.

BOLDUAN: And I've got to tell you, the job of the education secretary is always a big one but coming in the midst of a biggest shutdown of schools because of the pandemic in I don't know how long, what can the ed secretary do coming in, whoever that may be, as schools are largely, as we know, run and managed on the local level?

DUNCAN: Well, first of all, we need an education secretary who's really managed through this pandemic, who has built trust with teachers and with parents and with students who's living in this crisis and knows what it takes to get us to a better place.

There're so many priorities, as you said, and a couple of things that are most urgent to me. First, we have to find those students who have been missing in action, who have not been in school since March. We have to get them back enrolled.

Secondly, we have to think about a national tutoring program to help students catch up who have fallen way far behind. And, third, the idea of taking a summer break coming out of this with hopefully vaccines will be widely available just doesn't make sense. We've lost too much time not just academy just academically but kid's social and emotional skills and their ability just to be kids.

And so we need to think very differently about this summer, start schools earlier, which is going to cost money. Think about band and robotics and debate and chess and all those things, social skills, sports, give kids a chance to get back in school buildings, be around each other, catch up academically.

So we need someone to be very, very creative, has to work with Congress to have hopefully another stimulus package with significant money for education. But we have to get to those kids who have disappeared and get them back in a learning mode.

BOLDUAN: Do you have someone in mind you think would be best at that job?

DUNCAN: I'm sure president-elect is going to pick someone who is fantastic. And there are lots of great people out who are managing through this crisis who knows what it takes, who are fighting on behalf of the kids that need the most help every single day. We need someone with that kind of sense, of that experience but also a sense of urgency and commitment.

BOLDUAN: On the COVID vaccine, education groups have been urging the CDC to put teachers and school staff on the priority list. Do you think they should get to the front of the line in this kind of next group?

DUNCAN: In this next group, yes, I absolutely think that teachers, bus drivers, custodians, lunchroom attendants, principals, social workers, they are absolutely essential workers. And if we have any hope of trying get kids and teachers back into a physical school building together, obviously, the health care workers deserve to be the front of that line.

But coming after that, along with other essential workers around the country, educators, I think, does need and deserve this, absolutely, no question about it.

BOLDUAN: The superintendent of Los Angeles schools made the case this week, he was on this show, and I want to ask you about it. He says that he thinks schools, school buildings, that they should be the vaccine sites -- primary vaccine sites across the country. And here is why he says that.

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SUPERINTENDENT AUSTIN BEUTNER, L.A. UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT: The place to provide the vaccine to students and their families is the place they trust the most, where they are almost every day, their local neighborhood school.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Do you agree with that?

DUNCAN: I absolutely agree also. And I've been working together on a number of different things related to trying to get our schools back open. He is working so hard there in L.A. And we need to have this vaccine widely available and we need people to trust.

[11:40:03]

And we know, for lots of reasons, people may not trust their hospital, maybe intimidated going there or, frankly, not feel safe going there. But people trust their local schools. And whether it's children, whether it's their parents, whether it's their care givers, coming into schools where they'll be getting meals, tens of millions of meals every single day since the start of the pandemic, coming there to get that vaccine, helping children and their families start to be safe in a way they haven't been for far too long now, I absolutely think schools could help to drive this across the country.

BOLDUAN: Real quick. You mentioned like schools -- maybe summer school is one out of the box idea that people need to have. You're big on this concept of kind of, I think, outside the box when it comes to education. What's another big idea you think that you'll need to consider?

DUNCAN: Well, I think it's not just this summer. We just have to rethink the school year going forward. And the idea that we have summers off when the vast majority of kids don't work in the fields anymore and our school calendar is based upon a bearing (ph) economy, it doesn't make any sense.

So thinking differently about time, whether it's longer days, whether it's Saturdays, whether it's weekends, whether it's over summer, for those children who need more help academically, those children coming out of the pandemic need a chance to social, to be kids, to play, to do those things with their peers. That's the kind of thinking we need now.

Just to sort of somehow stop school in June, go back again this fall makes no sense whatsoever. We have to accelerate the start of this school year and then going forward, Kate, think very differently about the use of time, making sure children get all the help they need, academically, socially and emotionally.

BOLDUAN: Arne Duncan, thank you.

DUNCAN: Thank you so much.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, the emotional plea from the surgeon general today and what it means for communities of color hardest hit by the pandemic.

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BOLDUAN: This weekend, a critical meeting is happening at the CDC to determine who will be next in line on the priority list to receive a COVID vaccine. Right now, health officials are also concerned not just about who should get the shot next but will everyone be willing to take it.

This morning, the surgeon general addressed it directly after he received the vaccine on camera, making an emotional plea, especially to black Americans.

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DR. JEROME ADAMS, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: I know the importance of representation.

And that's why I could not be more pleased or feel more called to receive this vaccine that so many people of color had a hand in developing and testing and it has the potential to correct at least some of the health disparities this pandemic has unveiled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining me right now is Dr. David Satcher. He's former director of the CDC, also a former surgeon general serving under Bill Clinton and Georg W. Bush. Thank you for being here, Doctor.

What do you think of the message coming from Dr. Jerome Adams this morning?

DR. DAVID SATCHER, FORMER U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: It's a very important message and he delivers it very well. And I think the fact that he was speaking while getting his own vaccine was very significant.

This is critical. The virus is very dangerous. People speculate about the things that can go wrong with vaccines, but the fact of the matter is, we know what can go wrong with the virus if you're not vaccinated, and so 300,000-plus people have already died because of the virus. And so I think our emphasis ought to be on getting people immunized so we can reduce the number of people who are susceptible.

BOLDUAN: Doctor, I'm looking down at your lapel. It says, I got mine. Is that -- you got your COVID vaccine? I can't see it as my monitor is small. Is this a new thing? Am I going to get a sticker or a pin?

SATCHER: Well, if you get the vaccine. I did receive the vaccine this morning at Grady Hospital and I was very pleased to do so. The people there were very helpful and accommodating. So I think it's just important for us to emphasize, as the surgeon general did, the importance of everybody getting the vaccine.

BOLDUAN: And this is a great challenge, as there is, especially among the black community, a horrible history of mistreatment that has created distrust in doctors and medicine.

My colleague, Jason Carroll, actually went to a small town in Alabama this month and met some folks who were voicing this very distrust. Let me play a few of what they said.

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JOE CUNNINGHAM, ALABAMA RESIDENT: I don't know. I don't understand it. I like to know where it's coming from.

ANITA JACKSON, ALABAMA RESIDENT: We have to convince our family that this is the right thing to do.

CARMEN BAILY, COVID SURVIVOR: We don't know any kind of side effects from them. So I just really feel like, at this point, it's people that's going to take that vaccine is guinea pigs.

I just feel like we don't know enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: The question remains, how do you overcome that? Whose voice is most important?

SATCHER: Well, I certainly believe that leadership is important. And when I was director of the CDC, and we were concerned about the low immunization rates for black children, and we were able to develop a partnership with the council of black churches, and as a result, the immunization rates tripled over the next couple of years.

I just think we've got to find people who are trusted already in the community, and I mention ministers because I have found them to be very effective. I had a meeting with ministers the other day to talk about the importance of getting the vaccines.

[11:50:05]

But, yes, I was the director at the CDC when we asked President Clinton to apologize for the Tuskegee study, and that was, given all the information we had, we thought that was appropriate. And he did. I think he did a great job of explaining why the whole nation owed an apology to the families of those black men who were involved in the Tuskegee study.

So we have a lot to be sorry for, but we also have a lot to look forward to. We need to find a way to get people protected against this virus that has already killed over 300,000 people.

BOLDUAN: I mean, I was also surprised, I have to say, you mentioned you're at Grady Hospital. Sanjay Gupta, he also has highlighted that even among hospital staff at Grady, his hospital in Georgia, that there is skepticism. He said that there is a survey that a little over a third, we're showing, folks, on the screen, a little over a third of hospital staff that was surveyed said they would get the vaccine, but also a third said that they would not. Does that surprise you?

SATCHER: Well, I guess it surprises me, but only to a certain extent. I think we need to discuss this more with our staff. We need to make sure that people understand the risk of not getting vaccinated. It is true that there are risks in everything, but I think risk of not being immunized is really a great risk. And we can document that risk. The virus is very dangerous. It has already killed 300,000 people. So whatever we can do to minimize that onslaught of the virus, then I think we should do it.

BOLDUAN: Really, quickly, your life's work has been pushing for health equity. This virus has exposed yet again how much inequality there is still in the health care system. How does the government make sure that's not the case when it comes to the COVID vaccine?

SATCHER: Well, I think we've got to do more of what we started to do. We're getting more people starting with the surgeon general on the stand this morning, and our president, the president of Morehouse School of Medicine and all those who were immunized today, I received the vaccine this morning. So we've got to send that message.

I had an opportunity to meet and speak with a group of black ministers the other day. We've got to keep this message going. Along with it, we've got to talk about the danger of this virus and we can demonstrate that in the fact that over 300,000 people have already died in this country.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Dr. Satcher, thank you very much.

SATCHER: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: A programming note for all of you, this discussion that I was just having with Dr. Satcher continues this evenings with Dr. Anthony Fauci and the surgeon general, Jerome Adams when they join Don Lemon and Dr. Sanjay Gupta for a new town hall, the Color of COVID, The Vaccines. That's tonight at 10:00 Eastern.

So, coming up still for us, down to the wire. Pressure mounts as Congress still has not reached a COVID relief deal. They say they are optimistic. They say they will get there. But will they? The House speaker is set to speak soon.

But first for us, before we go to a break, this week's CNN Heroes all- star tribute celebrated the incredible people behind some of this year's best moments and also asked you to vote for which moment inspired you most.

CNN's Anderson Cooper has more.

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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Sometimes a photograph can capture the mood and the attention of the world. In June, one image did just that.

During protests on the streets of London, events turned violent. A Black Lives Matter group was there to condemn statues of people with racist ties and many white protesters were there to protect the statues.

Things got heated. One man, Bryn Male, a white former police officer, wandered into the crowd and he started to get beat up. One of the Black Lives Matter protesters, Patrick Hutchinson, saw that he was in peril, Patrick moved in, picked up the injured Bryn, carried him through the crowd to safety.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The biggest thing for me was making sure that no harm came to him because I knew if harm had come to him, the narrative would just be changed and then blame would befall on the young Black Lives Matter protesters. We made sure we got him out of there safely.

COOPER: Patrick, a father and a grandfather, hopes that everyone sees the image, understands that the responsibility to do the right thing resides in all of us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just want equality for all races, for all people, so that right now, we're the ones who seem to be oppressed ones, and it is about time things will change the world over.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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BOLDUAN: You can watch CNN Heroes, an all-star tribute, anytime on CNN Go, CNN on-demand, and HBO Max, recommend it.

We'll be right back.

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