Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

First Shipment Of Moderna Vaccine Leaves Distribution Facility; Congress On The Brink Of Deal For $900 Billion COVID Relief Package; Interview With Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-MS); Trump Holds Oval Office Meeting; CDC Subcommittee Discussing Priority Groups for Vaccinations; U.K. Under Tier 4 Lockdown Due to Virulent COVID-19 Strain; Encouraging Vaccine Confidence in Communities of Color. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired December 20, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:20]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Sunday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

Right now a second coronavirus vaccine being shipped out to all 50 states following CDC authorization to administer the first doses. The first truckloads of Moderna's vaccine have left a distribution facilities in Mississippi. The U.S. now the first country in the world with two vaccines to battle the disease.

Meanwhile, Congress may be closing in on a deal for millions of Americans in desperate need of relief. Among the still to be finalized details in the $900 billion package -- jobless benefits, money for individuals and small businesses.

It's a dire time. Another 2,500 COVID deaths on Saturday alone. the U.S. is closing in on 320,000 Americans killed. Nearly one out of every 1,000 Americans gone. That's more American lives lost than in any war fought by U.S. troops. And it happened in just ten short months.

We begin with the roll-out of the Moderna vaccine. Nearly six million doses of the vaccine being delivered.

CNN's Pete Muntean is at a distribution facility in Memphis, Tennessee. So Pete, what do we know about which states, which localities will be receiving those first deliveries?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a bit of a race against the clock right now, Fredricka. The Moderna vaccine, that first shipment came straight here to this FedEx facility at Memphis International Airport after it left a McKesson facility. That's the company in charge of distribution not too far away from here and actually over the state line in Mississippi.

That first shipment, a lot of labor-intensive work, working in cold conditions for workers there to get this initial shipment off the door. Now it's on the way to 3,000 individual locations across the country. Those are places like hospitals, pharmacies, CVS and Walgreens.

This roll-out, four times larger than the initial Pfizer roll-out of last week, six million doses. As you mentioned the department of Health and Human services said maybe 20 million people could be vaccinated by the end of this month, part in thanks to the Moderna vaccine, which has a bit of an advantage over the Pfizer vaccine.

It does not need to be kept at super-cold temperatures. In fact, a regular freezer or refrigerator will do just fine, opening this up to plenty more rural areas and clinics. This is the start of a massive movement and it all begins right here in Memphis, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Pretty extraordinary sight to see. Thank you so much, Pete Muntean. We'll check back with you.

All right. Right now, U.S. Congress is on the brink of a $900 billion coronavirus relief package that could by finalized within hours.

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill. So Manu, Senate leaders Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer have both said a deal needs to close. Will it?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And it's expected that one will. What is uncertain yet is exactly when the votes will occur. And when we will frankly see the details of this massive proposal. $900 billion -- that is a significant rescue package.

We have not seen the details. They're still being hammered out behind the scenes. And there's an effort to try to get it passed at least through the house by today.

And on top of that, they're trying to tie it to another massive bill -- $1.4 trillion to keep the government open through September, and they have not released the details of that package either, even though the leadership on both sides are going to be asking their members to cast a vote to approve both proposals here in just a matter of hours.

And today is a critical deadline. Not only are Americans waiting for relief, but also if there's no deal to fund the government by midnight, the government will shut down. And there's talk right now about passing another one or two-day stopgap measure to keep the government open for another couple of days so they can get the text together of this COVID relief package and allow members at least some time to review it, get it on the floor of the house, get it through the Senate and then get it on to President Trump's desk.

And it's still unclear yet what President Trump will do. So there are still a lot of questions about the exact process for this becoming law even though there is optimism.

One big sticking point was resolved last night which was the role of the Federal Reserve in intervening in the economy. The Democrats and Republicans cut a deal on the key sticking point on that provision.

And -- but there are other issues they're still hammering out including how to deal with education money or how much money to give to private schools. Those are still being discussed behind the scenes. There's an expectation they will be resolved.

[14:04:59]

RAJU: And overall, Fred, we expect this to include direct payments of individuals of about $600 per individual. Also we expect for $300 a week in jobless benefits to be part of this, in addition to money for vaccine distribution, more than $80 billion for schools -- a very significant package.

We'll see if they are able to get it together through Congress here in a matter days. But they are working hard behind the scenes. Can they finally deliver, Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right. Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. Thanks so much. Check back with you.

All right. Here to talk more about this, the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee Congressman from the great state of Mississippi, Bennie Thompson. Good to see you, Congressman.

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): Thank you for having me Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: So how optimistic are you that there might be a deal made in this $900 billion relief package?

THOMPSON: Well, I'm very optimistic. I can't give you a timetable. If we have to give ourselves another day or so to get it finalized, I think Congress will do that. But I don't think will leave here without getting a package complete.

WHITFIELD: And what would make that package complete. What needs to be in there that should not be negotiated away?

THOMPSON: Well, I think obviously the unemployment benefits, the stimulus payments, the moneys that go to state and local and to the school systems that have to have it. And from my understanding, those are not in contention anymore. So what we have to do is to move forward with that.

As you know, the House for the most part has always been ready to negotiate. We passed the Heroes Act months ago. So we're just getting to the point now of getting our Senate colleagues to join us in this effort to get relief to our communities.

WHITFIELD: If a deal is embraced, what are you telling your constituents in terms of how soon they would actually feel some of the relief coming from this package whether it be individual, small businesses, schools? I mean is it a matter of days or weeks?

THOMPSON: Well, first of all, we would say those who received the $1,200 stimulus checks, the first go-around, they would get a $600 check. So you won't have to say do I qualify or anything like that? You are automatically qualified simply because you received the $1,200 earlier. The PPP loans and other things for small business they will be available also.

So this is more or less an extension of earlier programs that worked and we just now have to, you know, codify, put it in writing, allow the members to have some time to read the language that's in there, and then ultimately vote on it, to give that relief to our communities.

One things we have to do there are a lot of communities and individuals who are suffering from lack of food. Food insecurity is a major, major issue all over the country. So in this bill, there's also relief for that.

WHITFIELD: This is all a consequence of the pandemic. Your state of Mississippi has been hit very hard by coronavirus -- nearly 200,000 cases and 4,400 deaths. Hospitalizations are also on the rise in your state.

And now, here it is, you know, in your state where the first shipments of the latest FDA approved Moderna vaccine, you know, started departing out this convoy of trucks yesterday.

But this really is an interesting convergence, you know, of hope and despair. How are you looking at the days ahead?

THOMPSON: Well, first of all, I took my shot yesterday. I made sure that I convince my constituents that there's nothing wrong with taking it. It's absolutely important. But as important, there are so many of my constituents, as you know, Mississippi was void (ph) of any hospital beds because we had none.

So what we are saying to them is with the leadership that the House and Senate is demonstrating, in due time you will have an opportunity to get vaccinated. We encourage you to do it when that opportunity presents itself.

Every time I call my constituents, Fredricka, someone is telling me, well you know, so-and-so is sick. Unfortunately, we lost so-and-so. We've lost too many people to this pandemic because we did not address it in the beginning.

[14:09:56]

WHITFIELD: You received the Pfizer vaccine, the one of two doses. Was there any hesitancy whatsoever for you to receive -- I mean as a member of Congress you're, you know, you're right up there with being able to get it first. But was there ever any hesitancy, and I ask you that, because a number of your constituents, you know, are reticent. There's a good deal of the American public who are so reticent about this vaccine. So what's the example that you're trying to send by doing it yourself?

(CROSSTALK)

THOMPSON: Well, thank you very much. We're trying to say that we allowed the system of testing this vaccine to work. I trust the validators (ph) in this system. Now we need to push it out. But there's a natural suspicion, especially in African-American communities with always we're mindful of what happened with the Tuskegee study, where we were absolutely used as guinea pigs.

And so that is still resonating across the land so we want to mitigate that. I compliment the former Presidents of the United States who will get their shots in the not-too-distant future. So we have to have validators out there to encourage the public that this is the right thing to do.

Beyond that, you know, we have yet about 200 million citizens vaccinated in order to mitigate this pandemic. So we have a long way to go. But glad that we have two vaccines on the market, so to speak, and with an additional two set to come on in the not-too-distant future.

WHITFIELD: As a chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, I want to ask you about this ongoing investigation concerning the cyberattack. It's impacted government agencies, private companies are the ones who made in discovery, and now we're learning more and more about this cyberattack going as far back as March.

And this morning Senator Mitt Romney said Russia, you know, laid the groundwork to cripple our communications, electricity, water -- something he likened to a wartime setting. How do you see this cyberattack? And do you see it as an act of war?

THOMPSON: Well, there's no question about. It compromised a lot of our system. We really don't know the full extent of it. We just found out about it as an entity last weekend.

And ultimately when members of Congress started trying to get information, our own government was resistant in sharing information even with committees of jurisdiction.

So we do know Russia has attribution for what has occurred. We know that some 18,000 companies and organizations potentially impacted. We know that some eight government agencies that we know of at this point.

But we still have some more work to do, to be honest Fredricka because Russia has compromised our systems. Now, first thing we have to do is make sure that we have the resources to address it. One of our --

WHITFIELD: Well, actually on that note, I want you to hear what the former director of the U.S. Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Agency, CISA, you know, Chris Krebs said this morning about that very matter. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER KREBS, FORMER HEAD, CISA: Yes, it happened on my watch at CISA and we missed it. A bunch of other folks missed it. But there is work that we have to do now going forward to make sure, a, we get past this. That we get the Russians out of the networks. But b, that it never happens again. And we really need congressional support, we need the resources, we need the authorities to be able to make sure that again, it doesn't happen again.

But going back to the beginning, the Russians are exceptionally good at this sort of work. And they found a seam in our defenses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So is this cyberattack, does it exemplify a lack of resource or even commitment from this country to get ahead of adversaries such as Russia who could carry out cyber attacks like this.

THOMPSON: You know, it says we were good at the moment, but that was not good enough because they used a trusted validator to come into our back door, Fredricka.

The other problem is we don't have anyone in charge of coordinating our cyber defense system. We've had -- not had someone since March of 2018. And that person usually is in the White House.

[14:14:55]

THOMPSON: In the NDAA legislation that I hope will get passed before we adjourn, we put that individual back into the legislation. President-Elect Biden has indicated that he supports it.

So what we need is an all hands on deck coordinated effort, to making sure that we can defend ourselves because as Chris Krebs said, we're challenged right now.

But I'll tell you what else is concerning to me is the president fired the number 1, the number 2, and the number 3 person at CISA and put no one back at that level in place. So really we have an organization without real leadership at this moment in time. And that puts us at risk, too.

WHITFIELD: Is that willful in your view or an example of negligence?

THOMPSON: Well, you know, when a president tries to blame China for this hack, when all of our systems and experts say it's Russia. The secretary of state said it was Russia. But for some reason our president is focused on China and voting machines, rather than this hack of some 18,000 companies here in America.

So for whatever reason, our president is reluctant to call out the Russian government as being the culprit in this matter.

WHITFIELD: All right. We'll leave it there for now, thank you so much, Congressman Bennie Thompson. We covered a lot, appreciate you. Thank you.

THOMPSON: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Coming up, a tense meeting in the Oval Office leading to a screaming match. Is President Trump on the verge of taking drastic new action to overturn the election.

Plus the president is also downplaying Russia's alleged involvement in a massive cyber attack. We talked a bit about that. We're going to talk even further. Find out which Republican senator is among those sounding off.

[14:16:59]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The president reportedly exhibiting fury and frustration, not over the pandemic or cyber security breach but over his efforts to stay in office. And today we're hearing new reaction to a stunning meeting that took place in the White House involving bizarre conspiracy theories, turning into screaming matches.

People familiar with the clash say it involved the president discussing declaring martial law to overturn the election and seizing voting machines to inspect. The President even floated the idea of appointing right-wing lawyer Sydney Powell to investigate debunked voter fraud allegations.

For more on this, let's bring in Jeremy Diamond at the White House. So Jeremy, what more are you learning about this intense meeting, who was there and what kind of reaction is coming from it?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, President Trump seems to be grasping at straws for any idea even some of the most outlandish and potentially dangerous ones to try and remain in office and overturn the results of the election. Or at a minimum to at least undermine the legitimacy of a Joe Biden presidency.

We understand that according to sources that President Trump met on Friday night in the Oval Office with Michael Flynn, his disgraced former national security adviser and his attorney Sydney Powell, who was part of the Trump legal team but was removed from that role because of all of these debunked conspiracy theories that she's been spreading about the 2020 election.

And our sources tell us that the president discussed the possibility of naming Powell as a special counsel to investigate these voter fraud allegations.

And they discussed this idea raised by Michael Flynn earlier this week in right wing media of using martial law. That involves the use of military forces to re-run the presidential election.

That idea in particular is facing fierce condemnation from Republicans and Democrats alike, including Senator Mitt Romney and the incoming Transportation secretary nominee, Pete Buttigieg.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): Well, it's not going to happen. That's going nowhere. And I understand the president is casting about, trying to find some way to have a different result than the one that was delivered by the American people.

But it's really sad in a lot of respects and embarrassing because the president could right now be writing the last chapter of this administration with a victory lap with regards to the vaccine.

PETE BUTTIGIEG, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY NOMINEE: It's irresponsible and it's dangerous. But at the end of the day, this is a country of laws. And the American people have spoken, the election took place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And now to be clear, there's no indication that President Trump is preparing to impose martial law in any way. The military has made very clear that they plan to stay out of any efforts to contest this election. But of course, it is concerning to hear that that idea was even brought up in this meeting but it certainly did face criticism from some others inside the White House, including the White House chief of Mark Meadows and the White House Counsel Pat Cipollone leading to a shouting match in that Oval Office meeting on Friday, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Wow. What fireworks. All right. Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much for that.

All right. Let's talk further on all this. Joining me right now is Juliette Kayyem CNN national security analyst and a former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security; Toluse Olorunnipa, he is a White House reporter for "The Washington Post" and a CNN political analyst. Good to see both of you.

All right. So Juliette, you first. So what would be done now potentially to help blunt this idea, now that it's out that this conversation was had and that the president seemed very serious about it?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I mean this is one of those stories where you sort of hate yourself for having to have to address it but for the fact he's the president of the United States.

The president knows darn well that he cannot impose martial law. So we have to ask ourselves, why does he do this? One is he's not -- his faculties aren't fully there. He's outraged. He's angry and now that (INAUDIBLE) he likes us to talk about right, this is I his bigger fear.

He doesn't -- he doesn't like being president. He likes being the focus of attention. But I don't think we should treat this as nothing or him just wildly sort of crazily having ideas.

[14:25:01]

KAYYEM: My biggest concern over the last four years has been the way that Donald Trump uses his language as a form of terrorism, promoting terrorism, inciting people.

So don't view him as going out and, you know, using the military. Really -- think about his supporters, most are not violent.

But those who have been radicalized, the ones you see on the (INAUDIBLE), the ones who, you know, go after the Michigan governor (AUDIO GAP) violence.

They are getting radicalized, Fred because they are hearing the president say this is the equivalent of an insurrection, of a revolution.

And that's what worries me in terms of what President-Elect Biden is going to inherit, this radicalization that is not a civil war. It's not an existential threat, but people could get harmed.

WHITFIELD: So, Toluse, according to the "New York Times", the idea's, you know, coming from this right wing attorney Sydney Powell and Michael Flynn, that those ideas in this discussion were actually shot down, and I'm quoting now, shot down by every other Trump adviser present including chief of staff Mark Meadows, and White House counsel Pat Cipollone.

This seems to be a change of course for some of the president's most faithful advisers, I mean taking a stand against him. But can anyone really kind of contain, you know, his fury? Contain him from trying to get others to get on board. I mean he does have a couple of members on the Hill who are already backing him.

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: The president realizes that his time is running out. He does not have very many options so he's appearing to try to get some of these conspiracy theorists and people who are really far on the fringe of the political norms and trying to bring them into the mainstream, trying to get people like Sydney Powell and Michael Flynn.

You remember Sydney Powell was actually dismissed from the president's legal team, because she had been espousing these conspiracy theories that were not in line with what the Republican Party or what the president's own legal team wanted to put forward.

Michael Flynn spent just about three weeks as the national adviser before the president had to fire him because he had lied to the FBI.

So these are not the kinds of people that you would have if you had a top-notch legal team or a political strategy for trying to remain in office. The president is really sort of grasping at straws here and the fact that, you know, some of people close to him are trying to be the adults in the room and say no, you cannot put forward martial law. You cannot seize voting machines. You cannot have a rerun of the election that happened more than six weeks ago.

It really shows sort of a dark and lonely place where the president is in this moment where even some of his stalwart supporters in Congress have started to acknowledge that President-Elect Joe Biden will be the president a month from now and that there's not very much the president can do about THAT.

WHITFIELD: And Juliette, the president is holding on to fantasy with that idea while the reality is there is a cyberattack ongoing. And we've seen the reports now. It may have started, you know, as early as March, and has not been contained.

So what are your concerns or fears about the President in his last 30 days either doing nothing or protecting or denying that Russia could by any means be involved, and at the same time a new administration and Biden inheriting what mess has been made in all of this time since March because of this cyber attack.

KAYYEM: That's exactly right. And March is, of course, the president had the capability of controlling the pandemic and getting the response.

So you have two tidal waves over this country right now. One is killing people physically, the other is a massive intelligence failure. So forget who did it, it's a massive intelligence failure on the part of the United States, and a (AUDIO GAP) and getting responsibility, making sure that people were responsible.

And also making sure that he knew the extent of harm. This is what President-Elect Biden and his team will inherit at this stage a massive pandemic, hopefully a strong vaccine program already launched, but also this cyber attack. It will allow the Russians to continue to do what they're doing but if I'm an ally of the United States and I see this intelligence failure, I'm not sharing much for the time being until I have assurances that the United States can hold on to the intelligence for some period of time.

WHITFIELD: Interesting. All right. Toluse, so we are talking about 31 days, you know, in this Trump presidency before the swearing in of Joe Biden.

[14:29:47]

WHITFIELD: What -- I'm asking you to look into a crystal ball -- so what can be expected over the next 30 days in terms of the president's commitment to do whatever it is that he wants, that may not, you know, pertain to the improvement of the lives of Americans, whether it's the pandemic or whether it be protecting against adversaries?

[14:30:05]

OLORUNNIPA: And the last 30 days of what has been a very turbulent and tumultuous presidency, I would not be surprised if these are the most tumultuous and turbulent days of this presidency. The president is looking at pardoning his friends. My colleagues have reported a lot of the Republican lawmakers are calling into the White House with favors, looking for the president to use his power while he still has it.

The president is also looking at his own interests, thinking about pardons for maybe his family members or his political allies, as well as using the powers of the presidency to push the envelope, maybe doing things, not necessarily martial law, but trying to push through his kinds of policies, things that maybe he couldn't get through Congress, signing executive orders that may be legally suspect. He's done that over the course of his presidency. There are very few guardrails on him now, so I wouldn't be surprised if he using the last days of his presidency to try to push the envelope, to try to cement his legacy and to try to sabotage his successors. It's not something that we normally see when expect to have the peaceful transfer of power, but we have seen the president failed to concede this election. And I wouldn't be surprised if he uses his final days in office to make it harder for Joe Biden to govern when he takes office on January 20th.

WHITFIELD: All right. That's a lot. All right, Toluse Olorunnipa, Juliette Kayyem, good to see you all, thank you so much.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:35:00]

WHITFIELD: All right. First, we saw frontline workers in the U.S. being vaccinated. And now a CDC subcommittee is discussing who might be next in these rounds of vaccinations being made available from coast to coast.

Natasha Chen is with us now from Atlanta. So, Natasha, what do we know about these discussions, what will be determined?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, the committee is meeting over a virtual live stream right now and they're taking about an hour's worth of public comment. That committee will then expect to vote at around 4:00 Eastern Time to see who gets the vaccine next.

As you mentioned, the first wave has already started. That involves frontline healthcare workers as well as people in long-term care facilities. That was in a group called phase 1a. What they're voting on today is 1b and 1c.

So they're pretty much in agreement on the next strip (ph), 1b, which people 75 and older, frontline essential workers. And what they're debating more about is that next group after that, 1c, which would involve slightly younger people, especially those with chronic health conditions as well as other essential workers. And trying to debate right now what exactly those special health conditions would be in that description.

And to give you an idea of just how many people this would cover, the next group, that 1b frontline essential workers, we're talking about teachers, police, firefighters, it's a group of about 50 million people, versus other essential workers who may come after that, another 57 million people.

Biden's nominee for U.S. surgeon general, Dr. Vivek Murthy, talked about the realistic timeline for when most people should expect to see a vaccine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. VIVEK MURTHY, FORMER U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: If everything goes well, we may see a circumstance whereby late spring, people who are in lower risk categories can get this vaccine. But that would really require everything to go exactly on schedule.

I think it's more realistic to assume that maybe closer to mid-summer or the fall when this vaccine makes its way to the general population. So we want to be optimistic but we want to be (INAUDIBLE) as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: And the current Health and Human Services, Alex Azar, estimates that by the end of January, we'll see about 50 million people vaccinated, Fred.

WHITFIELD: And then, Natasha, all of this is taking place while across the country, shipments of that second vaccine for the U.S., Moderna, is on the move. It's in cargo trucks already. Do we have any idea of when the first injections might happen?

CHEN: Everybody is hoping very soon. That is a very interesting development because not only does it add millions of doses of vaccine throughout our population, but also it can be stored in normal freezers as opposed to this special storage temperature for the Pfizer vaccine. So that could also allow for more access in smaller communities and places perhaps without those specialized storage equipment.

WHITFIELD: All right. Natasha Chen, thank you so much.

All right, still ahead, this quote, out of control. This out-of- control variant of the coronavirus is now ripping through the United Kingdom. And now that country is facing a brand new lockdown. We're live from London next.

Plus, fears over the vaccine keep coming from some Americans, but is the fear warranted? I'll talk with someone who got the vaccine and expresses whether you should be concerned or not.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:40:00]

WHITFIELD: A new and alarming variant of COVID in the U.K. means tighter restrictions being imposed there this Christmas week. The U.K. health secretary confirms the new variant across England, Wales and Scotland, restrictions on people visiting households. And now, neighboring European countries are even banning passenger flights from the United Kingdom from entering.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is in London for us with more. Salma?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: Fredricka, country after country is now rushing to ban flights from the U.K. just one day after the authorities here announced that there is a new variant of coronavirus that is prevalent in London and parts of the southeast of England, and that that new variant is up to 70 percent more transmissible. That's how much quicker it can spread.

Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Greece, I could go on and on, it feels like hour after hour, there are new rules being put into place to turn British travelers around.

Meanwhile, here in the U.K., the prime minister is dealing with the new variant but putting in tough new rules, 11th hour restrictions go into place on Saturday night essentially putting all of these affected areas into a localized lockdown, London and these affected regions. You have to stay at home and work from home. All non-essential shops have to close and quite crucially travel in and out of these regions is absolutely banned.

But a lot of Londoners, some Londoners, rather than heeding these orders, well, they rushed to train stations, they rushed to airports to try to get out before these restrictions were in place.

[14:45:06]

Many people feeling frustrated that the prime minister had been adamant that new rules wouldn't go into place, so much so he stood in parliament on Wednesday and said, I will not criminalize Christmas, it would be inhumane. And now, this absolute U-turn, this about-face that the prime minister says is driven by data around this new variant.

But the question is, will people comply? Will Londoners heed these rules or is this simply too little too late to stop people's holiday travels, to stop this variant from essentially going global? The question now is, are people going to cancel those plans?

As one British op-ed put it this morning, these are the right restrictions, but coming in too little and not in the right way. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: Oh, goodness. So, Salma, about the -- I mean, the images that we saw particularly of the elderly people who were among the first to get vaccinated, and there was so much hope that came with the first vaccination. So, now, are people concerned that the vaccine may not work against this new strain?

ABDELAZIZ: Well, Fredricka, according to the authorities here, this variant is more transmissible. It spreads faster. However, it is not deadlier, it is not more dangerous, and most importantly, it is not immune to the vaccine as far as they know. But, again, because it can spread faster, what that means is that more people can get sick, hospitals can potentially be overwhelmed and that the health care system might not be able to handle what the authorities themselves said could be an explosion of cases.

I mean, they said this variant is out of control. So the concern here is not about the death rate as much as it is about the number of cases that could be created by this variant, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Wow, extraordinary. All right, Salma Abdelaziz, thank you so much from London, I appreciate it.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:50:00]

WHITFIELD: Vaccine confidence is paramount to protecting the public, but not everyone is immediately on board. A study by the Kaiser Family Foundation found this week that more than a third of black Americans remain hesitant to get vaccinated or have already decided they simply won't.

Roy Dunlap is the director of Environmental Services at Howard University Hospital, and he is joining us now from Washington. Good to see you, Roy.

ROY DUNLAP, DIRECTOR OF ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES, HOWARD UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: Thank you for having me. Thank you, Mr. Whitfield.

WHITFIELD: So, you took the vaccine or got vaccinated this week. Why are you so confident when still so many are not?

DUNLAP: Well, for one, when you look at everything, you know, what we're going through as America, as a society and the world, it was time for somebody to step you, for a couple of us to step up and take a vaccine to see if it works. So when people have taken the vaccine, you should take it, just to see if it works, to see if it's not working, to see if there're any side effects.

So I did it because it's time to find a way to combat this COVID-19.

WHITFIELD: And you can call me Fred or Fredricka. So you made a decision, but, apparently, you had some difficulty kind of breaking it to your family. What was that conversation like? What were their concerns? What did they say to you?

DUNLAP: Well, let me just say this. You know, I decided to take it weeks ago, but decided to break it to them the night before.

WHITFIELD: You didn't give them time to mull it over.

DUNLAP: Yes, because they probably would have tried to convince me not to take it. But when I went to the dinner table the night before, my family usually has dinner together, and we bring politics, schoolwork, things to discuss around the table. So, I looked at my wife, and I said, baby, I want to take the vaccine tomorrow for the COVID-19. And I turned around and looked at my son, and my son, you know, he always makes these funny expressions when I bring something to the table, his eyebrows raised like, oh, boy.

And I turned back to my wife, who was right at me at the time, she's staring at me, and she said, you want to tell me now? This is how you're going to tell me? Why didn't you tell me just weeks ago? You just want to make a decision without discussing it with us? And your family needs you. You don't know what the side effects of that virus. You know, if something happens to you, who is going to take care of the family? WHITFIELD: Wow.

DUNLAP: Now, I understand that --

WHITFIELD: Okay. So she laid it all out for you. So what did you say? I mean, how do you bring some assurances?

DUNLAP: Well, you know, I explained to her as a leader that, you know, sometimes, as a leader, you have to step out and lead by example. You know, my staff, they're exposed to COVID-19, because we clean the COVID-19 rooms and sanitize it, as well as myself. We go to suspected (ph) rooms too as well. So there's some protection to myself. So, as a leader, you have to step out and say, hey, let's step out and let's do this, all right?

And, plus, my CEO, she made it more comfortable to me too, because my CEO, if Ms. Jenkins can do it, I think a guy could do it too as well.

WHITFIELD: Yes, simply by virtue of your occupation, I mean, you know, the chances of exposure have been heightened. You're already in an environment where, you know, COVID is pervasive because people are being treated who are coronavirus positive.

[14:55:05]

DUNLAP: Right.

WHITFIELD: So, your staff then, while it sounds like it was easy enough for you to be on board and especially in your leadership role, what about for your staff? Did you have to twist some arms? I mean, because it is clear and it's understandable why, particularly in the black community, there is so much reluctance.

I mean, you don't have to look far. It wasn't that long ago with the Tuskegee syphilis experiment and there were other medical experiments too that led infertility of black men. So with that conversation with your staff members, if anybody needed any arm twisting themselves?

DUNLAP: Well, there was no arm twisting. I believe, like I said, I lead by example. So I have shifts, three shifts that I oversee. So I have given all three shifts, and showed them my arm where I took the shot. Of course, you know, a lot of people are surprised and a little shocked and everything, but, you know, I saw the shot, they asked me how I was feeling. There were questions about it.

And I answered all the questions. And after everything was over, I had people that did come to my door and say, was it done (ph) on the fence about it. But, you know what, I've seen you taking it. So I see you take it take the shot, I want to take it too as well.

You know, with a staff that's 90 percent black and Hispanic, I think this is something that you'd like as a leader not only for my staff, I have to show how the black and brown world that, you know, the vaccine is safe. And then we have to start moving towards getting rid of this COVID-19 virus. WHITFIELD: You are a leader, and you showed them how leadership roles, Mr. Roy Dunlap. Thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it, from Howard University.

DUNLAP: Okay. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

WHITFIELD: All the best with you. We're going to follow up with you, especially when it comes down to that second shot because we want to know how full after that second inoculation. Thank you so much.

DUNLAP: I'll be ready. I'm sure I'll be ready.

WHITFIELD: I know you will be.

DUNLAP: And I'm sure in 21 days (INAUDIBLE) too as well.

WHITFIELD: And you're clearly born ready. All right, thank you so much.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:00]