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Travel Restrictions Imposed in U.K. Because of New COVID-19 Variant; New COVID Relief Bill Finally Reached in Congress; Moderna's COVID-19 Vaccine Begins Rollout; Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine Being Delivered Across The U.S.; Americans To Start Getting Moderna Vaccine Soon; Older Americans, Essential Workers Next To Receive Vaccine. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired December 21, 2020 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[02:00:00]

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ANNA COREN, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I am Anna Coren live from Hong Kong. We are following two major stories this hour. In just a few hours, Prime Minister Boris Johnson will chair a high level meeting, as a new variant of the coronavirus is spreading rapidly in London and southeast England.

He will discuss international travel and flow of freight into the U.K. as the country is on the brink of a worldwide travel ban and massive food shortages. The U.K. is being virtually cut off from the world as nation after nation halts or restricts travel to and from Britain because of the new COVID-19 variant.

Many flights are now suspended. And with the British government tightening COVID restrictions even further, people in the U.K. and beyond are left scrambling to reach their loved ones with the Christmas holiday just days away.

Meanwhile, in the United States, it's the relief so many Americans have been waiting on for months. After weeks of haggling and bickering, Congress has finally reach a deal on a COVID relief package totaling $900 billion. And we'll take a closer look at the most significant parts of that plan later this hour.

Let's start with the situation in the U.K. CNN's Nic Robertson joins us live from London. Nic, we have seen those chaotic scenes coming out of London and as people try to get out of the capitol before the lockdown came into place, flights have been canceled to the U.K. to stop the spread of the variant. And now we're learning that France has imposed a 48 hour truck freeze. Tell us about the immediate impact.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's a big concern for the British government and one of the central reasons why Boris Johnson will be holding that important cabinet meeting today with top cabinet officials and chief advisers because fresh food and produce, frozen food and produce, and items destined for British factories come in daily across the channel crossing. About 10,000 trucks cross every day.

Now, the U.K. can survive, obviously, without some of those products coming across the border, you know, the things that would come across this time of year in bulk would be brussels sprouts, cabbages those sorts of things.

But the idea that the U.K. can suddenly without warning, be shut off from those food products, and many medical products, of course, coming in from the continent that just naturally over the past number of decades flow into the country. That is a major concern.

And it certainly will be causing concern in government and it will cause concern in the population. People here have been very disconcerted to say the least by the sudden imposition of a new tier of restrictions on the prime minister. Just in the past couple of days over the weekend, telling the country that the Christmas that he'd promised them where they could have three different households in one household for Christmas, is no longer an option.

So, the immediate impact of France not allowing trucks to cross through the channel tunnel and cross on the ferries for the next 48 hours is of immediate concern. The government is going to want to figure out how it can mitigate against what is happening in such an unexpected circumstances.

COREN: Nic, as you mentioned, the prime minister will be meeting with his cabinet and holding that (inaudible) meeting. Are you expecting any further announcements in relation to further restrictions, if that's even possible in the U.K.?

ROBERTSON: We have heard already overnight from the Ministry of Transport that have advised truckers to avoid going to Kent today, which is the county where Dover is and some of the other channel crossings because the government is very concerned about, you know, the backlog of trucks that would just pile up in long lines of traffic on the major highways there.

Just last week, because of stockpiling, there were lines of traffic, you know, five miles and longer. So, what we would expect to come out of this, I think, is the prime minister, essentially, to take stock, look at remedies and, you know, one would expect him or others in the cabinet, to try to reassure people in the United Kingdom that this is a temporary glitch that they are working with their neighbors to get around this.

But, of course, this falls at a time when Britain is negotiating a very tough Brexit deal with E.U. negotiators. There is a lot going on, Anna.

[02:05:02]

COREN: Nic Robertson joining us from outside 10 Downing Street in London. Good to see you. Many thanks.

Well, joining me now is Peter Drobac, infectious disease and global health expert at the University of Oxford. Good to see you. Tell me, how concerned are you about this variant spreading in the U.K.?

PETER DROBAC, INFECTIOUS DISEASE & GLOBAL HEALTH EXPERT, UNIVERSITY OF OXFORD: There's a lot we don't know yet about this variant, but it certainly appears to be the case that there has been rapid rise in cases, a really astonishing rise in cases in and around London in recent days and weeks.

And that appears to be largely driven by this new variant. And some reports we're hearing from U.K. government scientists, so that it may be up to 70 percent more transmissible or more infectious than the presiding variants that we have been seeing.

And even if it is not causing more severe disease or more deadly disease, and that's our understanding right now, if it were to spread more quickly, that is a real cause for concern. And that's why we are seeing such aggressive action, both within the country with the new lockdowns, and also some of these, hopefully, temporary border measures until we can learn more.

COREN: Peter, we have seen other cases of this mutation pop-up in other countries, but I guess, why the level of alarm in the United Kingdom?

DROBAC: You know, mutations are a normal part of the life of a virus. Viruses normally evolve especially when they're in a new host, in this case, humans. And so, there are hundreds of different variants out there that have been being monitored.

The reason for concern with this one is because of the potential association with that spreading much more quickly that we are seeing and sort of become the dominant strain in some areas and there are some evidence the laboratory to suggest that in fact it may spread more quickly.

Another thing to note is that there is a variant in South Africa, which is independent of the ones here in the U.K., but which shares a similar mutation on the spike protein. That one also does appear to be spreading more quickly.

A lot of this is preliminary. A lot more research needs to be done about how this particular variant behaves and what it means for things like treatments and vaccines. But at this stage, I think caution is warranted.

COREN: Yes, of course. I mean, the mutation of viruses is not uncommon, but as you said, it's the highly infectious nature of this variant that is causing alarm. Does that come down to human behavior or perhaps the variant itself?

DROBAC: It could be a combination. You're exactly right. It could be that you have a new variant, and because of human behavior, because perhaps because of certain superspreader type events, the variant spreads more quickly.

It may look more infectious, but the behavior of that virus itself may not actually be much different. The research that we have so far suggests that that's probably not enough to explain the rise of this particular variant, but it is certainly something that needs to be ruled out.

COREN: You know, we've seen these scenes coming out of London, of people fleeing the capital before that lockdown came into effect. People cramming onto trains, obviously lining up at airports. I mean, surely, that is a recipe for disaster in spreading this variant around the country and possibly the globe.

DROBAC: Yes. It's really unfortunate those scenes of thousands of people fleeing London just before the new restrictions came into force a couple of days ago. And there is a real risk that, you know, that could be a recipe for spreading this virus all around the country. The same reason that we are closing off -- our international borders are being closed off as to prevent the spread. I certainly fear that we might now start to see rises of this new variant in other parts of the country.

COREN: All right. Peter Drobac -- sorry, Peter Drobac, joining us from Oxford in England. Good to see you. Thank you for your insight. We appreciate it.

DROBAC: Thank you. Thanks, Anna.

COREN (on camera): Well, millions more doses of COVID-19 vaccine are making their way to states around the United States. Moderna's vaccine is the second to get emergency use authorization. Carriers are delivering the supply to thousands of locations.

Hours from now Americans should start getting the shots. Well, Pete Muntean is in Memphis, Tennessee with details on how the Moderna rollout will compare to the one we've already seen from the Pfizer- BioNTech vaccine.

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PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Two truckfulls of the Moderna vaccine came straight here after leaving a vaccine distribution facility just over the state line in Mississippi. Now, the Moderna vaccine is going out with 3,000 locations across the country. Those are places like hospitals, pharmacies, CVS, and Walgreens.

The deliveries begin on Monday morning. This roll out, about four times as large as the initial FISA rollout of last week. The Moderna vaccine has a bit of an advantage over the Pfizer vaccine, and that it does not need to be stored at super cold temperatures.

[02:09:58]

In fact, the regular refrigerator would do just fine in this case. And that opens this up to many more rural communities without deep freezers. FedEx is handling a lot of these packages and it says that difference does not change how it will handle this.

JOE STEPHENS, FEDEX: It doesn't matter whether you have to be ultra- cold or you have to be -- whether you're minus 90 or minus 20, it doesn't matter. Our job is to get the package from point A to point B as expeditiously and as safely as we possibly can, and to deliver it to those that are going to administer it.

MUNTEAN (on camera): Six million Moderna doses are going out right now and the Department of Health and Human Services says that means 20 million people could be vaccinated by the end of this month. You have to remember, this is a remarkable achievement. We are seeing the rollout of two coronavirus vaccines in roughly the span of a week.

Pete Muntean, CNN, Memphis, Tennessee.

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COREN (on camera): U.S. lawmakers clinch a last-minute deal on a COVID relief package. Ahead, what the massive stimulus bills includes and what it fails will provide.

And even with more aide on the way, we look at the challenges ahead for President-elect Joe Biden as he tries to revive the U.S. economy.

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[02:15:00]

COREN (on camera): In the coming hours, U.S. lawmakers are expected to vote on $900 billion coronavirus relief bill. The agreement comes after several days of frenzied (ph) negotiations and just hours before the government would have to shut down without additional funding.

The measure includes stimulus payments to individuals and a boost to unemployment benefits. But Democratic leaders still say more will be needed to revive the economy ravaged by the pandemic.

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REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I would consider this a first step and that, again, more needs to be done. We're so excited that that will be happening under the Biden-Harris administration.

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COREN (on camera): Well, CNN's Manu Raju has more on what the relief bill will include.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Congressional leaders, after months of division and stalemate, finally reached a deal that could give relief to Americans who are struggling in the middle of this pandemic. $900 billion, a package, one of the biggest in American history, reached after four top leaders in Congress spent days in tough negotiations, ultimately, cutting a deal.

And they really have only been discussing this for a matter of days because for months, they were at loggerheads. They weren't talking for a period of time even as this crisis continued to rip through the United States. But nevertheless, the moment we expect this proposal to pass, possibly

both chambers as soon as Monday. And then the president would have a decision to make about whether to sign this proposal into law. Well, this plan includes more than $300 billion for small businesses, to apply for emergency loans. It provides relief for farmers and others who have been hit hard through this pandemic.

Also, people who are unemployed and getting jobless benefits and seeing those jobless benefits expire. It would extend those jobless benefits and include $300 a week for people, starting in December 27th. There would also be a one-time direct payment for individuals of up to $600, assuming they make less than $75,000 a year.

And a family of four could get up to 20 $2,400 because of the $600 given for each person in that family, assuming they are under the income threshold detailed in the legislation. This proposal also is important for vaccine distribution.

This comes at a critical time, states and cities have been asking for more funds to help ensure that the American public, the voters in their state, constituents in their state are inoculated. We expect that to include billions more to help with that.

Now, this of course came after both sides had to drop some key sticking points where key provisions that they were pushing for that had emerged as sticking points. One, state and local aid, Democrats have wanted hundreds of billions of dollars to help states and cities. They drop that because Republicans pushed back. They viewed it as wasteful spending in a lot of ways.

Republicans asked for a big liability shield for businesses and others that opened up during the pandemic. Democrats viewed that as a way to protect corporations who could be sued. That was put aside. Those fights will be punted to the New Year. And already, Democrats are talking about having to do a big package when Joe Biden becomes president on January 20th.

So, this fight will be delayed until then, but this was a hard-fought battle. Ultimately, a deal has been reached. We expect it to go get approved in a matter of days here, get into -- money getting into the pockets of Americans. We'll see if it's enough. Manu Raju, CNN, Capitol Hill.

COREN: Well, CNN's Eleni Giokos joins us from Johannesburg with more. And Eleni, as Manu said, it was a hard-fought battle. It came down to the wire, but finally, Congress passed this desperately needed stimulus deal. What details are you learning?

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Yes, exactly. Look, this has been months in the making and there have been so many obstacles and sticking points. But as Manu says, the big ticket items, the important priority items have now been included under this bipartisan deal of $900 billion.

I have to take a step back here and remind you that the initial number that Democrats were after was around $2 trillion. Then we had the Treasury secretary coming back with $1.8 trillion. That was rejected by Democrats.

Now we've got a whittled down package, but at least it's been signed before the holiday season because there were just so many things at stake here. I'm going to remind you of those big issues.

So the enhanced unemployment benefits of $300 extra per week for unemployment vulnerable Americans, that direct check of $600 for both adults and a child, then again, is much smaller than initially we have been discussing of $1,200.

So, all of these priority items are now main features. What has not been included, however, liability protection for businesses. Republicans really wanted this in the bill. That has been excluded because it was an obstacle, it was a sticking point.

[02:19:59]

And then for Democrats, they were really after state and local aid. That has also been removed. I want you to take a listen to what Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said after the tough negotiations we saw government extend its deadline from Friday until today. Take a look.

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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: We can find a report with our notion as needed to hear for a very long time. More help is on the way. There will be another major rescue package for the American people. As our citizens continue battling this coronavirus this holiday season, they will not be fighting alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIOKOS (on camera): And, Anna, look, it's been interesting to see how the negotiations have been ongoing. One of the (inaudible) sticking points was that Republicans wanted to put a limit on Federal Reserve emergency loans that would have hampered the Biden administration come early 2021.

But there is consensus and sense of urgency here because you've got coronavirus cases rising, you have localized lockdowns, and a huge impact on the economy going forward. Now, with new strains emerging around the world, that, again, is adding more uncertainty.

But what this does not, it protects around 12 million Americans from falling out of unemployment benefits the day after Christmas. It also protects people from facing evictions in January. We're talking about almost five million people. Vaccine distribution money has been allocated. Money for nutrition and ensuring schools are propped up as well.

So, the big message from Democrats is that this is actually the starting point. The number, the $900 billion is the floor and not the ceiling of a potential relief package. So, more negotiation is certainly to come. And then the big unknown, again, who's going to lead the Senate and how easily and quickly can you pass through another stimulus package in the early 2021, you know, program?

So, I think this is definitely going to be one to watch. Many people have seen, have had a lot of fatigue in seeing the stalemate, but we've got to bypass -- needs to pass through the House floor and then through the Senate, and a final signature from President Donald Trump.

COREN: As you say, Eleni, a huge job ahead for incoming president, Joe Biden when he takes over and tries to revive the American economy. Eleni Giokos, joining us from Johannesburg. Good to see you. Many thanks.

For more on this, let's turn to Jessica Levinson. She is a law professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles. Jessica, good to have you with us. It obviously came down to the wire, but desperately needed stimulus aid has finally been approved. Tell us the significance of this?

JESSICA LEVINSON, PROFESSOR OF LAW, LOYOLA LAW SCHOOL: Well, I think it's usually significant in the sense that there is some help on the way, but what's also significant is how long it took. What's also significant is how we look in comparison to the rest of the world.

You know, a number of people are posting on social media these comparison charts. $600 in a major metropolitan area, in at least Southern California where I am, that's maybe going to be about a third of one month of rent.

A lot of other, for instance, western European countries, they are allowing people to subsist. They are not allowing for a kind of lines outside of food pantries that we have. So, it is a step. It comparatively puts us behind the rest of the world in terms of providing relief.

COREN: I mean, well, it's half the size of the $2.2 trillion stimulus law enacted back in March. It is still one of the largest relief packages in history, but it's only going to go so far in helping with the economic devastation of this pandemic.

LEVINSON: Absolutely. So, it's half of what the federal government provided in March, but remember that for a lot of people or I should say, for many of the viewers for a lot of people, that things are much worse, that they have now not been getting paychecks for much longer, for maybe 10 months instead of just a few weeks.

That unemployment insurance has run out. That the state aids (ph) are not back going the way they used to, that the long term outlook is now looking more terrifying and bleaker. So, I don't mean to say that the federal government didn't act. They certainly did.

But they certainly waited until almost the last moment. There are certainly statistics indicate one in five families or one in six families in America that are struggling with food and stability, which is a polite way of saying that somebody in their house is hungry.

COREN: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said this emergency relief bill is an important initial step, and we've heard from President-elect Biden refer to it as a down payment. I mean, we know it's nearly not enough to meet the nation's needs, but tell us about the challenges facing the incoming Biden administration as he takes charge of the nation's economic recovery.

LEVINSON: Huge challenges. I mean, there is a reason that it took so long because it's not easy to get this sort of massive relief group, particularly when, let's be honest, we're facing horrible deficits.

[02:25:04]

It's not like we're spending money that we have. We're spending money that we need to spend, but it's not necessarily sitting there in a bank account. Now, in terms of kind of political hurdles here, a lot of it is going to come down to Georgia.

There's a senate runoff race on January 5th, and if both Democrats who are up for election win, the Senate will be divided 50-50, and then the tie breaker will be then Vice President Kamala Harris. If either one of those Democrats loses, the Senate will remain controlled by Republicans and that will make whatever kind of relief Joe Biden Wants to help fashion even harder for him.

COREN: Jessica, I want to ask you about the travel ban that is being imposed by most countries on the U.K. The president, Donald Trump, is yet to ban those flights. Is this yet another example of him going AWOL on leadership?

LEVINSON: Yes. And frankly, personally, I'm really torn because on the one hand, I think the less he does in a way, the safer we are because the actions he has taken, in many ways, have been an existential crisis for America.

On the other hand, this isn't the moment when anybody can abdicate leadership or responsibilities. So, no, he just wanted to play golf and we weren't in a pandemic. We weren't in a terrible financial potentially on the precipice of a crisis. Okay.

But somebody needs to act at this point and it's very hard to tell a nation that's having a surge on top of a surge that it has an exponential part of the surge that is disproportionately seeing people, thousands of people die every day just hold on because somebody else will take over.

COREN: Jessica Levinson, joining us from Los Angeles. Great to see you. Many thanks.

LEVINSON: Thank you.

COREN: Coming up on "CNN Newsroom," the CDC has given Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine the green light. We got details about the millions of doses already headed to states around the U.S. and who will get them.

But that does not mean the crisis is over. Far from it. Doctors and nurses in California tell us about the tragedies unfolding before their very eyes. That story is ahead.

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[02:30:00]

ANNA COREN, CNN HOST: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world. You're watching CNN Newsroom. I'm Anna Coren live from Hong Kong. Well, The U.S. has reported another 189,000 new coronavirus cases and more than 1500 new deaths on Sunday alone according to Johns Hopkins University.

Thankfully millions more doses of vaccine are now arriving in states around the country. The U.S. authorized Moderna's vaccine for emergency use over the weekend. Well, that makes two vaccines now available for Americans. Monday's rollouts of the Moderna product will be about four times as large as the Pfizer-BioNTech rollout last week.

The first shots expected to begin in the next few hours. With two vaccines now available, some Americans maybe wondering when they'll be able to get their shots. You recall healthcare workers and those in long term care facilities were first on the list when the Pfizer- BioNTech vaccine was authorized for use.

CNN's Natasha Chen is in Atlanta with the latest on who is next in line.

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NATASHA CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A CDC advisory committee voted Sunday 13 to one on the next two phases of people who should be prioritized for the COVID-19 vaccine. Already we've seen in the very first phase, health care workers and residents of long term care facility start to be vaccinated.

Now the next group that's been voted on now include people 75 and up as well as front line essential workers. People like first responders, grocery store workers and teachers. The phase after that will include people 65 and up. Younger people with high risk medical conditions and other essential workers. Now that last phase involved a bit more debate among the committee members especially what is considered a high risk condition.

Right now that list includes issues like diabetes, obesity, cancer. The committee did say that these are issues with sufficient evidence of being associated with severe COVID-19 but it's not an exhaustive list and they did say that will be updated on the CDC website.

Already we are seeing a more than half a million people vaccinated now with the Pfizer vaccine. The Moderna vaccine is now being shipped out as we speak with the first shots expected to happen on Monday. Natasha Chen, CNN, Atlanta, Georgia.

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COREN: Well, things aren't getting any better in California. Tens of thousands of people are getting infected each day and hospitals are under massive strain. The COVID tracking project counts more than 17,000 coronavirus patients in California hospitals right now. More than 3700 are in intensive care units. The heartbreak is unending. Paul Vercamenn has this report.

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PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The COVID-19 disaster continuing in California. 46,000 new cases. 161 deaths, that's lower but the hospitalizations are just terrible. About 17000 hospitalized and 3.6 thousand hospitalized in the intensive care units including several dozen here at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center.

They have morphed an operating room, the ER area expanded that into the ICU units and when you talk to the nurses who face this daily, they're astounded by what's happening to these patients. One of them, a 39-year old nurse says it's just getting to help.

CLIFF RESURRECCION, NURSE: People of your age that had comorbidities, had no health issues, all of a sudden are in renal failure, heart failure, having blood clotting issues, unable to breath, intubated and you know, you don't know what's going to happen or the usually mortality is that they will pass away. That's what's so devastating about this virus.

VERCAMMEN: And another just sad story. A father comes in, then his son. They're next to each other at one point. They both wind up dying of COVID-19. Just one of the many stories being unfurled in California as the pandemic rages on. I'm Paul Vercammen reporting from Harbor- UCLA Medical Center. Now back to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: Well, coming up on CNN newsroom Seoul is cracking down hard on public gatherings with COVID cases and deaths on the rise there.

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[02:35:00]

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COREN: The coronavirus is causing more problems in Asia, especially in countries that had successfully contained earlier outbreaks. Japan is seeing a steady rise in cases. Hospitals in the country are caring for more than 26,000 coronavirus patients. South Korea counted 24 deaths Sunday, its deadliest day of the pandemic and Seoul's mayor has just issued new restrictions that will begin this week.

Well, joining us now Seoul is Paula Hancocks with much more. Paula, tell us about these latest restrictions and what has caused this surge?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes Anna, so this is really the most stringent measures that Seoul city has put in since the beginning of the pandemic. From Wednesday they have said that there will be a ban on gatherings of five or more people in the Greater Seoul area until January 3.

Now this area is really where most of the outbreaks are taking place at this point where officials admit that they haven't got a handle of many of these cases, many of the untraceable. So certainly what they're trying to do is to prevent social gatherings. The year-end gatherings. Christmas, New Year and really try and keep people at home to start decreasing those numbers because we have been seeing over a thousand daily cases for some time now.

Sunday, it wasn't - but testing is always a little slower on the weekend and as you say, it was also the deadliest day on Sunday, when it came to the number of people losing their lives to the coronavirus. Now in addition, there is an issue with beds, hospital beds here in South Korea, in particular in Seoul.

Now we have heard from officials that they are hoping to double the number of ICU beds that can be dedicated for coronavirus patients by the end of the year. They say 85 percent of hospital beds are already occupied within the Seoul city and the Greater Seoul area and they say that you have just four ICU beds left that can be used for a coronavirus patients.

[02:40:00]

Now last week there were a couple of occasions when there was just one ICU bed left and we're seeing officials create more capacity and add new ICU beds over the past few days but as they are adding them, they are then filling up as well. So certainly this is a struggle for health officials in Seoul, trying to make sure that that are enough beds to go--

They've admitted as well that two patients have died in Seoul itself whilst waiting for a hospital bed. Now also in Japan, there was a little less than 2.5 thousand new coronavirus cases for Sunday. The concern there is also surrounding the capital city Tokyo, seeing a significant number. Anna.

COREN: Paula Hancocks joining us from Seoul. We certainly appreciate the update. Thank you so much and thank you for watching CNN newsroom. I'm Anna Coren, live in Hong Kong. For our international viewers World Sports is next. For everyone else, the news continues after this short break. Please stay with us.

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[02:45:00]

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COREN: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States. You're watching CNN Newsroom. I'm Anna Coren. Well, the incoming White House Chief of Staff is blasting the Trump administration for its response to a cyberattack on U.S. agencies. Ron Klain says the government has sent mixed messages about who is responsible and urged the White House to clear up the confusion.

Officials said last week that Russian hackers were likely to blame for the data breach which they called a grave risk to public and private networks but on Saturday President Trump downplayed the severity of the hack and suggested China could be behind it. His comments also contradicted what his Secretary of State had said just hours before.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, SECRETARY OF STATE, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: There was a significant effort to use a piece of third party software to essentially embed code inside of U.S. government systems and it now appears, systems of private companies and companies and governments across the world as well. This was a very significant effort and I think it's the case that now we can say pretty clearly that it was the Russians that engaged in this activity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: Earlier I spoke with Kevin Mitnick, a cyber security consultant and former hacker. I asked him about the scale and sophistication of the government data breach.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN MITNICK, CEO, MITNICK SECURITY: The sophistication is - it's an extremely sophisticated attack so I got to tell you back in the 1980s when I was on the other side hacking, I was able to compromise a company called Digital Equipment Corporation. They don't exist today and I had the access to actually push out new versions of their software with a back door but I thought about it and I thought about doing it because it would have given me access to every VMS operating system in the world.

But I decided against it because the risk was way too high but for the threat actors in this case, that's exactly what they wanted. They wanted to be able to push out their malware onto these networks and then they don't stop there. What they do is we call it lateral movement, where they'll move to different systems within that compromise network, install other back doors, steal information, gain access to email, pretty much compromise everything.

Attribution is extremely difficult. Nation states in many cases that I've heard about will simulate another nation states' tradecraft so imagine China for example, got hold of some malware that the Russian nation state uses in their attacks. What they'll do is they'll actually doctor up their back doors to include snippets of that - of that about malware so looks like it's Russia or it could look like another country.

I don't have that information. I'm depending on our intelligence agencies in the United States that have access to the sources and methods. They might have even compromised certain assets in Russia and they're able to get the ground truth of what really happened.

We're being told it's Russia. Trump is saying it's China. I don't really know and I hope eventually the truth comes out to who actually did this attack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: That was not cybersecurity consultant Kevin Mitnick speaking to me a little bit earlier. Well, Republican Senator Mitt Romney is sounding off on this cyberattack, particularly President Trump's refusal to blame Russia. He told CNN the attack is a big wake up call for the nation's security and that Trump should listen to the experts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-MI): Well, the president has a blind spot when it comes to Russia and so you can expect that that's the response that he would have but when it comes to matters of intrusion into our cyberspace, I frankly looks to the experts. The party has taken a different course than then obviously the one that that I knew as a younger person and I mean the party that I knew was one that was very concerned about Russia and Putin and Kim Jong-un and North Korea.

We pushed back aggressively against them. We were a party concerned about balancing the budget. We believed in trade with other nations. We're happy to play a leadership role on the world stage because we felt that made us safer and more prosperous and we believe that character was essential in the leaders that we chose.

We've strayed from that. I don't see us returning to that for a long time as I look at the 2024 contenders, most of them are trying to become as much like Donald Trump as they can be although I must admit that his style and stick if you will, is difficult to duplicate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: Let's get more now from CNN's Fred Pleitgen. He joins us live from Moscow. Fred, we know that the Russian government has denied launching this cyberattack. What else are they saying?

[02:50:00]

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Anna. They really haven't been saying very much. They haven't been saying very much. You're absolutely right. The only thing that we've really heard from the Russian government so far has come from the Russian embassy in Washington DC which denied that Russia was behind this attack.

But so far we haven't heard anything from the Kremlin at least over the weekend and on Friday as well or from any other high level Russian officials either. So far the Russians, it seems almost as though they're trying to wait and see whether or not the outrage in the United States might blow over at some point in time but at the same time of course, they will be watching all this very closely, especially those comments from President Trump.

Now over the weekend where he essentially insinuated that it could be China that was behind the attack and possibly not Russia. Of course one of the things that we've seem almost as a pattern over the past couple of years is a very close relationship between President Trump and Vladimir Putin of Russia.

You've seen the presidents on the more than one occasion appearing to be somewhat soft in the face of what many have seen as a more assertive Russia over the past couple of years and one of the things of course that they will be looking for as well as to how this attack which of course in the United States, many are already saying, it's almost unprecedented and it's a huge attack.

How that possibly sets the stage for the incoming Biden administration and what's going to happen there. As you'll recall, the U.S. intelligence agencies are saying that they believe that Russia was trying to meddle in the U.S. election in favor of President Trump. It also took the Putin administration a very long time to actually congratulate Joe Biden on the election victory, several weeks in fact.

They were saying that they were waiting for the electoral votes to officially come in and for the electrical college to make everything airtight but at the same time you can see that there is already a very cold vibe between incoming Biden administration and the Vladimir Putin is saying that he is willing to work together with Joe Biden.

he's obviously saying that both Russia and the United States rightfully so are very important to security in the world but this is certainly something that can really shed a very dark light already before Joe Biden has even taken office as of course many in the United States, very critical of President Trump but of course this is also a big breach of U.S. national security as many analysts are saying as well. Anna.

COREN: Yes Fred, the Biden administration will no doubt, respond to what is being described as the biggest cyberattack in America's history. Very quickly, are there fears this could lead to cyberwars with Russia?

PLEITGEN: I mean the big question is whether or not that might already be going on in some way, shape or form. Of course, one of the things that you'll recall Anna, is the head of the midterm elections in 2018, the Trump administration actually launched a cyberattack on the internet research agency which is a troll factory that the Russians have been using to spread propaganda ahead of U. S. elections.

And President Trump, he admitted to that a couple of months after that or a year or so after the midterm election took place thing. So you do already see some of that taking place. At the same time course we also have to see the history that Russia has in this field over the past years.

Of course the 2016 election meddling with the DNC email hack. Now this. So certainly you do see that there is already a lot of activity going on in the cyber sphere and listening to people here and also of course listening to people in Washington as well, they think that that is going to escalate rather than decline over the next couple of years, Anna.

COREN: Fred Pleitgen joining us from Moscow, thank you. Well, President Trump still stewing over the election he lost more than a month ago and spouting baseless claims about election rigging, claims that are being amplified in the echo chamber of the pro-Trump media outlets.

Well CNN's Chief Media Correspondent Brian Stelter looks at the outlets who are peddling these conspiracy theories even after the Electoral College confirmed Joe Biden's victory.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our president is in the fight of his life.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Now that the electoral college has affirmed Joe Biden's victory, some right wing shows and sites don't know what to do. This banner on Newsmax asking, is it time to move on? While Attorney Alan Dershowitz is saying yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The election will be confirmed.

STELTER: But some far right outlets are still peddling false hope, knowing that that's what their audience wants.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Many Americans are questioning the electoral process.

STELTER: One American news, a channel promoted by President Trump running segments like this claiming election manipulation is a long term goal of the left, carrying hearings about voter machine security and airing highlights from Saturday's pro-Trump rally in DC, days later to boost the spirits of Trumpers.

With Fox news mostly accepting that Trump's time is up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That Joe Biden is the next President of the United States.

STELTER: - some Trump defenders are flipping over to OAN and Newsmax instead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you accept that Trump lost Georgia?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trump didn't lose anything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

[02:55:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where do you guys get your news and information? Is it online, TV?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Newsmax now though because we don't trust Fox news.

STELTER: Officially Newsmax now says Biden is the president elect and will be referred to that way but host Greg Kelly is telling viewers to stay tuned.

GREG KELLY, NEWSMAX HOST: It is not over.

STELTER: And other pro-Trump personalities are turning against anyone who gives Biden legitimacy. SEN. MITCH MCMCCONNELL (R-KY): Today I want to congratulate president

elect Joe Biden.

STELTER: Fox's Mark Levin lashed out at Mitch McConnell on Twitter on Tuesday, saying thanks for nothing Mitch. And calling for fresh thinking and new blood in the Senate.

And Rush Limbaugh framed Trump's Supreme Court loss as some sort of elitist plot.

RUSH LIMBAUGH: This is strictly about getting rid of Donald Trump. There isn't an entity in the American deep state Washington establishment, whatever, that doesn't want to get rid of Donald Trump including enough justices on the Supreme Court.

STELTER: There is supply for these lies because there is demand for these lies. Demand that is not going away even if the Geraldo Rivera's of the world say that it should.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: It is over. I want the president, my friend, the current present, the 45th president to understand it is over. The Electoral College has voted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: OK, Brian Stelter with that report. Well, thanks for watching CNN Newsroom. I'm Anna Coren in Hong Kong. The news continues after a short break with my colleague Rosemary Church.

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