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Live Coverage as Alex Azar and Anthony Fauci Receive Dose of Moderna's COVID-19 Vaccine; COVID Relief Deal Heads to President's Desk; Interview with Ray Dalio on the Imperative Need to Close U.S. Wealth Gap. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired December 22, 2020 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:30:00]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let me take you back to the National Institutes of Health. You're looking at one of their team members, Neelam Giri, getting her first COVID vaccine. All of these folks are getting Moderna's vaccine that was just given emergency use authorization. Elizabeth Cohen, our senior medical correspondent, with me, also Dr. Jeffrey Gold.
Elizabeth, as we wait for Dr. Fauci and Secretary Azar to get their shots, your thoughts at this moment?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: This is really a historic day. I mean, I know the vaccine already came out previously, but to see these leaders getting it is a really important step. So many people, even doctors and nurses, are worried about this vaccine, will it hurt them.
And to see Mr. Azar, to see Dr. Fauci getting these shots, I think, will mean a lot to a lot of people. Hopefully they will look at this and say, if those men trust this vaccine, I can trust it too. Because the more people who get vaccinated, the better.
HARLOW: Absolutely. You're looking now, I believe Naomi Richardson, up for her vaccine. Next we have Secretary Azar.
Dr. Gold, Secretary Azar said just moments ago that this accomplishment, Operation Warp Speed, which was, you know, partly responsible for Moderna here, they worked together with NIH on this, it shows just how effective the public and private sector can be when they actually come together and fully put their minds to something.
JEFFREY GOLD, CHANCELLOR, UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA, MEDICAL CENTER: You know, I think that's exactly correct. You know, as a large academic medical center and the many (ph) across the United States, we depend on the public-private partnerships with the federal government, the National Institutes of Health and many other parts of the organization. And then we work with large industry as well in sponsored research trials for new drugs and medical devices and techniques.
I mean, I think Secretary Azar was right on when he said that this ability to accelerate this process and to have these multiple products available to the American public -- and of course globally -- is remarkable and hopefully sets the stage for many, many other types of research programs that can be effectively accelerated in the future.
I'm very excited about, of course, putting the end to this pandemic but seeing this applied to many, many other areas. Think, you know, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, so many other types of infectious disease, HIV. I mean, we could really punctuate American history and global history as a result of this, so it's all exciting.
HARLOW: Can you -- is there a possibility that an mRNA vaccine -- or I guess the mRNA technology can work on something like HIV?
GOLD: Well, it needs to be proven, and obviously there needs to be a good deal of scientific research for it, but the ability to use human cells --
HARLOW: OK.
GOLD: -- to import artificially made mRNA is what needs to be tested.
HARLOW: All right, let's -- we're just going to be quiet here -- I am, for a moment -- and we're going to watch and listen to the Health and Human Services secretary, who's really helped lead all of this, get his first vaccine dose.
ALEX AZAR, SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: As secretary, it's on my authority that these vaccines are authorized and I want the American people to know that I have absolute and complete confidence in the integrity and the independence of the processes used by the FDA to approve these vaccines, that I have complete confidence in the safety and efficacy of these vaccines.
And I am just so grateful to NIH and Moderna and all the participants in Operation Warp Speed for bringing us to this point, where now we can see the light at the end of the tunnel from this dark period. So thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
AZAR: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Any questions or concerns?
AZAR: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And just one second, a little Band- Aid just in case it bleeds. Thank you so much, sir.
AZAR: And thank you to NIH. Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's your return card.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Next we have Dr. Tony Fauci. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS
DISEASES: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) date of birth, please?
FAUCI: Twelve-24-40.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And which arm (INAUDIBLE)?
FAUCI: Left.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
[10:35:01]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So many in our nation are saying, If Dr. Fauci gets the vaccine, I'm going to get the vaccine. So tell us a little bit of why it's important.
FAUCI: Well, for me, it's important for two reasons. One is that I'm an attending physician here on the staff at the National Institutes of Health Clinical Center, and so I do see patients. But as important or more important is as a symbol to the rest of the country that I feel extreme confidence in the safety and the efficacy of this vaccine, and I want to encourage everyone who has the opportunity to get vaccinated so that we could have a veil of protection over this country that would end this pandemic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Dr. Fauci, for coming today. And last-minute questions, concerns?
FAUCI: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. I'll just scrunch up (INAUDIBLE). Just want to get a good intramuscular injection here. Thanks for helping out.
And pinch. And before you let go, let me put a Band-Aid on it. There we go, OK. Thank you so much.
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, Dr. Fauci, thank you.
Next we have Dr. --
HARLOW: What a moment for the nation. Elizabeth Cohen, Dr. Fauci -- you know him well -- getting this vaccine, saying how important it is to show the American people it is safe. What was it like watching that?
COHEN: It was amazing to watch it. And I thought it was, you know, I smiled when I saw that he was asked, do you have any questions or concerns? Which is of course the protocol and absolutely should happen.
You know, this is the man who probably knows more about this vaccine than almost anyone on earth. So it's -- what people forget sometimes is that the NIH worked with Moderna to create mRNA vaccines, and they were tried out in other viruses but it never quite got to market, so this is the first one that has gotten this far.
But what a moment for the man who played such a role in developing this vaccine, to get the vaccine himself.
HARLOW: And who will continue in a really important role, Dr. Gold, as we look at his boss. This is Dr. Collins, his boss, Fauci's boss. But Fauci will continue in a very important role in the incoming Biden administration.
GOLD: Sure. He'll continue to advise and provide judgment as he has done for many administrations. You know, actually, I know that each of these three gentlemen that just got their shots, who are getting their shots this morning. But particularly Dr. Fauci and I were both faculty members at Cornell, back in the Dark Ages, together.
So to see him ascend to this level of trust and responsibility, and now to be a national and global leader, and by getting his shot this morning, to inspire all of the Americans who trust him so much --
HARLOW: Yes.
GOLD: -- is really historic.
HARLOW: For sure. Again, our deep gratitude to everyone there at NIH for all they've done over the last year, fighting this and helping protect all of us, quite a moment to get to see that all on live television.
Elizabeth Cohen, thank you; Dr. Jeffrey Gold, thank you.
[10:38:33]
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: It took months, but we have a COVID relief deal and it's headed to the president's desk. Here are the key takeaways you need to know.
It is a $900 billion agreement, it includes direct payments of $600 per adult and additionally per child. There are enhanced jobless benefits of $300 per week for 13 weeks, an extension on the eviction moratorium, roughly $284 billion in Paycheck Protection Program loans -- or PPP -- and it also allocates $82 billion for schools and colleges.
So that's good, right? This morning, there's relief for millions of Americans in dire need. But it came at the 11th hour. Congress passed this stimulus package -- and that's a good thing, but how lawmakers let it get to this point is not. Because Washington, while you were running out the clock, Americans were running out of hope. You knew that stimulus was drying up in July, but for months, you didn't make a deal, you just made enemies of one another.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Either Democrats get every unrelated policy they want, or Americans families get nothing.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): What we have here are a series of show- stunt votes designed to fail because the Republicans want them to fail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: While you were fighting, Americans were struggling. In fact, Senator Mark Warner just said as much when I spoke to him last hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): Americans got every right to be mad as hell. I think both sides thought, well, maybe this will get involved in the presidential election, all the time, more and more people were falling off the economic cliff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: He's right, and there are still nearly 10 million fewer people with a job than before this pandemic began, just like this 37- year-old mother in California.
[10:45:03]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pandemic wasn't my fault, being laid off wasn't my fault.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: And did you hear Umu Conteh? She's a home health care aide and a parent worried about just making the rent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UMU CONTEH, FACING EVICTION: They gave me 30 days. I'm just thinking about my kids, where can I go with my kids?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: And did you hear this plea from Rose Rodriguez to help feed her family?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROSE RODRIGUEZ: Mami? wake up, Mami, you've got to go to school. You're going to go play in school, they're going to feed you too, yes?
I'll eat whatever is left over. The pantry, that's all I have. KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Before coronavirus, was
this full?
RODRIGUEZ: Everything was full.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Nearly 8 million Americans have fallen into poverty since June. Why? Researchers say one of the key reasons is federal stimulus money dried up, and government aid for those out of work declined steeply.
So to all of our leaders in Washington, Americans were relying on you, they were waiting for you. While you had a roof over your head, millions of Americans were worried that they were about to lose the roof over theirs. Millions were trying to explain to their kids why there wasn't enough food on the table. So for all of them, please, next time, do your job sooner for the millions who don't have one.
We know this economy is a struggle for so many. And while a relief package is going to help in the short term, Ray Dalio says capitalism as a whole has to change. He is the founder of the biggest hedge fund in the world, Bridgewater Capital. He also became famous because he predicted the last economic crisis in 2008.
But now, he has quite a warning for all of us. If we do not take on the wealth gap in this country, we could see -- in his words, quote -- "An economic downturn that produces conflict." Here's part of our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: You know, Fed Chair Jerome Powell has warned about this economy being very different, in his words, for a very long time, specifically the jobs that are never going to come back. How do you think that COVID has changed our economy for the long term, and what do you do about all of those jobs that are not coming back?
RAY DALIO, HEDGE FUND MANAGER: Well, it's an extension of what was happening before that brought about populism before, and I don't think that there is a plan for dealing with productivity. If we don't have broad productivity and employment -- which comes from education and jobs programs and such -- then we're going to have a continuation of the worsening, the greater polarity. And I think that that will be a problem.
So, yes, that's something that has to be dealt with. History has taught us these things. I've studied the last 500 years of history in cycles, and these things repeat over and over again: Large wealth gaps with large values gaps at the same time as there's a lot of debt and there's an economic downturn, produces conflict and vulnerability. And that will be with us unless the economy is good for most people, most people could be productive and effective and benefit.
HARLOW: You've been talking to members of the incoming Biden administration, those close to him on his economic team. What are you telling them to do? I mean, you just said there's not a plan. What do they need to do?
DALIO: I have very -- at this stage, there's very little contact -- I wouldn't over. I think that the most important thing for the country is bringing the population together because conflict is our biggest issue.
And if you look at voting records, how conservative and how liberal the red and blue is, and how intransigent they are, the voting on the basis of policies and so on, they're -- in order to bring the country together and not have a form of civil war, where there's movement -- we're seeing the form (ph) of civil war, people are leaving to go from one place to another partially for taxes, but also partially for other reasons.
There has to be the bringing of the country together, but in a smart way that we -- there's not just the giving of money and where it's needed -- and it is needed in places --
HARLOW: But, Ray, I mean, you just used the word "civil war" in a sentence (ph).
DALIO: I think if one reads history, one recognizes that some of the things that we've gotten used to in our lifetime, which is peace, harmony, productivity, those kinds of things, you cannot take for granted that you couldn't have circumstances that caused revolutionary changes.
[10:50:25]
And I don't want to create a hyper-worry, but I think that there is a polarity and a debt situation and circumstances in which there probably will have to be revolutionary-type changes. Maybe they're the sort that happened in the '30s.
HARLOW: You talk about the '30s, so are you talking about New Deal- type changes?
DALIO: There will have to be a resolution of this system working for the majority of people in which there's productivity. And that could be obtained either in a smart, bipartisan way, or it will come by greater conflict.
HARLOW: You know, Ray, for people watching, they are hearing a very successful billionaire, who came from very modest roots, who has said that even before COVID, the state of capitalism in America is a national emergency. If capitalism in America was a national emergency before COVID, what is it now?
DALIO: I don't want to create a panic or histrionics or something. I would look to this and I would say, are you worried about our conflicts that we're having internally? That if certain things don't get repaired -- and I think that means that the system works well for a majority of people.
The thing that you raised in the beginning, where you were asking about jobs and what will that be if you're on unemployment. And we have contact with education or health care. If there's not a level beneath which living standards can -- aren't projected not to fall and that there's alienation like this, you -- and different values. I'm not saying whose values are right or wrong, I'm just dealing with the conflict issue. We must be concerned about those things.
HARLOW: But solutions are so few and far between in terms of a coming together to solutions.
DALIO: But -- but I think that when faced with choices like exist now, that maybe the alternative is worse. And by being aware of the worse alternative, that might help.
HARLOW: What's the worse alternative, Ray? I mean, you know --
DALIO: Well, the worse alternative is -- is that one side or another says, this isn't my country any more, this isn't my population. That when the cause that people are behind is more important than the means of resolving their disagreements, that's a threatening situation.
HARLOW: It's Christmas week and people are frantically, you know, online, ordering gifts and material items for folks. You have a pretty strong message for everyone on that front.
DALIO: If you go to TisBest, you can give like an Amazon gift card, except it's for charities, and it's for any charity, even your neighborhood charity. I would recommend, if you're looking for a holiday gift, think about that.
And think about the impact if that type of gifting happened, because the amount of money that is spent on just giving candy in the holiday season is greater than the annual budgets of the American Heart Association, the American Cancer Society and Habitat for Humanity combined.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: You can listen to our full interview with Ray Dalio, he had a lot of important things to say about the state of capitalism. It's all up right now on CNN Business' YouTube channel.
I do want to take a moment to share some very sad news with you. Ray's son Devon was killed in a car crash over the weekend. Devon was the co-founder of a private equity firm called P-Squared Management Enterprises. He devoted a lot of his time to helping others in philanthropy including supporting veterans, disaster relief and animal welfare.
He was a devoted husband and he was the father of a young daughter. Devon was just 42 years old, our deepest condolences to the entire Dalio family.
[10:54:58]
Well, thank you very much for being with us today, I'm Poppy Harlow. NEWSROOM with Kate Bolduan is after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:00:00]
