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World Celebrates Reinvented Christmas; U.S. COVID Relief Bill On Hold By An Unpredictable Trump; Brexit Deal Done, Reality To Follow January 1; Americans Travel Over Christmas Despite Health Advice; United States Hospitalizations; Fourth Straight Record Day. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired December 25, 2020 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[02:00:00]
MICHAEL HOLMES, ANCHOR, CNN NEWSROOM: Hello, and welcome to our viewers here in the United States, and all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes.
Ahead here on CNN NEWSROOM. A Christmas unlike any other. Millions will celebrate the holiday under extraordinary coronavirus pandemic conditions.
Also, this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: For the first time since 1973, we will be an independent coastal state with full control of our waters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: The British prime minister wraps a very clutched Christmas deal finally scoring a post-Brexit agreement with the European Union.
And then a little later, a Christmas storm will bring extreme weather to the U.S. East Coast with some parts feeling like the North Pole.
A warm welcome, everyone.
It is Christmas Day in most of the world but from Manger Square in Bethlehem to Main Street, USA, the coronavirus pandemic has made it unlike any other Christmas in our lifetimes.
At a time when millions of people would be traveling, a new restriction from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention. Starting Monday, it will require a negative COVID test for all passengers coming to the U.S. from the U.K..
This comes amid concerns over a new variant of the virus that spreads more easily.
The pandemic has claimed more than 1.7 million lives so far this year and it is forcing worshippers to wear masks to churches around the world.
Pope Francis will deliver his Christmas message not from the balcony of St. Peter's Square as he usually does but from a hall inside the Vatican.
Only around 100 people attended Christmas Eve mass in a smaller rear section of St. Peter's Basilica, the pope reminding the crowd that Jesus was born a poor outcast and urging followers to help the needy.
Meanwhile, the head of the World Health Organization has a holiday message of his own saying people must not squander the sacrifices being made by essential workers.
Now that concern being echoed here in the U.S. as pleas from health officials about travel, distancing and mask usage often go ignored.
Now experts say that that, of course, is contributing to deaths that could have been prevented. Among them, more than 350 lives reported lost in California on Thursday alone.
And U.S. hospitals at record levels for the fourth straight day. The COVID tracking project saying more than 120,000 Americans spending their Christmas Eve in hospitals around the country.
And things are expected to get worse.
As Lucy Kafanov explains, it has a lot to do with the holidays.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm Santa Claus.
He is definitely an essential worker because he's the one that brings the joy and keeps everyone spirits up.
LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a Christmas like no other.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You ready to open presents?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Jingle ball (ph).
KAFANOV: Holiday cheer dampened by the coronavirus pandemic. On Wednesday, the nation reporting more than 228,000 new COVID-19 cases, the death toll surpassing 3,300.
Cases on the rise across six states, the number in California alone surpassing 2 million. Deaths also on the rise in 18 states.
DR. PETER HOTEZ, DEAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Right now, COVID-19 is the single leading cause of death in the United States on a daily basis. That's how tragic this is.
KAFANOV: A preventable tragedy.
DR. ALI KHAN, UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA MEDICAL CENTER'S COLLEGE OF PUBLIC HEALTH: More lives will be saved in January if every state did a mask mandate than will be saved by vaccine in January.
KAFANOV: And there are more dark days ahead. The University of Washington's influential coronavirus model projects more than a half million Americans will die of COVID-19 by April first, despite the vaccine.
But if mask use were to expand from 75 percent to 95 percent, nearly 50,000 lives could be saved.
Meanwhile, those shots of hope keep on coming.
More than a million doses administered, U.S. officials have promised 20 million would be vaccinated by the end of the year but they're expecting to fall short of their goal.
With the head of Operation Warp Speed acknowledging those doses probably won't get there until January.
[02:05:00]
DR. PAUL RUIZ, REPRESENTATIVE, (D-CALIF): This is not the time to have large indoor maskless parties, holiday parties. This is the time to hunker down.
Because we're going to go into Christmas -- so two weeks after that, you're going to see another surge.
KAFANOV: Despite the warnings, Americans keep hitting the skies. The TSA says it screened nearly 1.2 million people on Wednesday, a new pandemic record.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We weren't really torn. We want to see our family.
KAFANOV: In California, where hospital ICUs remain near or at full capacity doctors are worried about another surge following the holidays.
DR. RODNEY BORGER, ARROWHEAD REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: We have two very large holidays where people mix and travel. And I really don't see them -- or the people that I talked to, I really don't see them curtailing some of those activities.
KAFANOV: Yes. So you're prepared for some dark weeks?
BORGER: We're prepared for the worst, hoping for the best.
KAFANOV: The nation's top infectious disease expert leading by example. Celebrating his 80th birthday virtually.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I definitely feel sad. This is the first holiday season of Christmas and my birthday that I have not spent with my daughters since they were born.
I need to practice what I preach to the country and my message has been for the holidays we should curtail travel to the extent possible.
KAFANOV (On Camera): And that's the message that could save lives. This is not time to let our guard down.
You heard in the piece that if every single person more a mask more lives could be saved next month than by the vaccine.
Enjoy your Christmas holiday, but do it safely.
Lucy Kafanov, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Now because of the pandemic millions of Americans are in dire need of additional economic support but it's unclear when or if they will get that support.
It's all down to what President Trump decides to do about a relief bill he's panned but not explicitly threatened to kill.
Meantime he spent much of his Christmas Eve golfing at one of his private clubs. That's in contrast to how many spent -- many in need spent theirs in massive lines like this one in Ohio just waiting for food.
But it's not just aid at stake, it's also funding for the entire government.
Phil Mattingly explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN U.S. CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the urgently needed coronavirus package, the government funding bill it's tied to, it's physically departed Washington D.C. on a journey to Florida where the president will now have to decide what to do with it.
We know it's going to arrive in Florida, what the president's going to do, that is still very much an open question.
With Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill saying they have no sense right now -- not from allies in the White House, not from anything the president has said or done -- if the president is actually going to sign the bill.
Democrats imploring the president to sign the bill, Democrats also challenging congressional Republicans to join with them in addressing one of the president's concerns. And that is expanding those direct payments that are in the stimulus package from 600 dollars to 2,000 dollars.
Republicans, however, rejecting that idea. Likely to vote against it in large part on Monday when it comes to the floor for an up or down vote in the House.
So where does that actually leave things? Nobody actually knows. It's in the hands of one individual.
An individual who is, without question, angry about election results, without question frustrated about whatever the deal was that came together.
But multiple people I've spoke to make one point clear. This is not a policy issue at this point in time, this is a personal issue with the president.
So there's nothing lawmakers feel like they can do on Capitol Hill to address the president's concerns, they basically have to just wait and see.
Or as one congressional staffer told me it's hope and pray time.
Because this is also a crucial point. There's no fallback here, there's no Plan B, there's no secret backup plan if the president decides to reject this legislation.
This is the deal, a deal that took almost nine months to reach on the coronavirus relief piece. A deal that lawmakers are saying has to stand.
Plan A is the president signs the bill, one Republican told me; Plan B is hope Plan A works at this point in time.
Keep in mind this is aid for millions of Americans both on the unemployment side, on the direct payment side, eviction moratoriums but it's also a government funding bill.
And if the president does not sign the bill by Monday night -- well, not only is he rejecting a coronavirus relief package, he's also shutting down the federal government. We'll see.
Phil Mattingly, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Jessica Levinson is a law professor at Loyola Law School and host of the podcast "Passing Judgment." She joins me now from Los Angeles.
Good to see you as always, Professor. Appreciate the time.
HOLMES: I'd be interested in your suspend of Donald Trump's mentality, sort of state of mind in these final weeks. We've got a lame duck president who's not governing, he's lashing out even at allies, giving favors and, of course, holding up crucial assistance to Americans.
How do you view how he's behaving?
[02:10:00]
JESSICA LEVINSON, PROFESSOR OF LAW, LOYOLA LAW SCHOOL: When you put it that way, not particularly well, right. And you didn't put it that way, those are, in fact, the facts.
So I used to say in the beginning of his term that I was very happy when he was on the golf course because then at least he was doing no harm.
The problem now, of course, is that we're in the middle of a pandemic and in America, we're going into a very dark winter.
So to have a president who's just completely abdicated responsibility, seems to be spending all of his time peddling conspiracy theories, handing out pardons that just essentially thank his loyalists and may even rise to a level of obstruction of justice themselves, is really just a horrible dereliction of duty.
And then this is on top of the reports that we're hearing that he is becoming more irrational, that he feels like he's in a corner, that he doesn't want to say he lost.
And those scary things to have said about any president, particularly in the middle of a national emergency.
HOLMES: Yes. And lashing out on Twitter at Republicans as well including Mitch McConnell who has defended him all along the way.
You mentioned pardons and it's worth talking about those. Because it really has been a Who's Who of convicted liars and felons and war criminals when you're talking about the Blackwater guys and corrupt loyalists. The common thread in many of them is their connection to Donald Trump.
How extraordinary is what we're witnessing?
LEVINSON: Very, very, very. This really is an absolute abuse of the pardon power.
I'm not saying that it is not constitutional. Under the constitution, I absolutely think he does have the power to issue these pardons.
I'm saying it's terribly subversive and corrosive and this is in no way with the founders of our constitution envisioned when they decided to give this pardon power.
What they decided was that the president should essentially be able to give mercy. That if the criminal justice system for some reason break downs, the president can be there as a safeguard.
For instance, think about a low-level drug offender who probably shouldn't be sitting in federal prison for years if not decades.
What President Trump is doing here -- in small numbers, it's not that much different from what we've seen, for instance, think about President Clinton who pardoned his brother-in-law and then a big campaign donor, Marc Rich.
But it's different in sheer number and it's different in the quality. In the sense that what he's really doing is saying to people who, for
instance, undermined the Russian election, here's your reward -- excuse me, Russia investigation, here's your reward. And again, to pardon war criminals, to pardon people who have engaged in public corruption.
Almost every president has one or two pardons out the door where you think they're just saying thank you to a friend. But this is just breathtaking in its scope.
HOLMES: Especially when, as you say, there are thousands of people deserving to have pardons and clemency who are not getting it.
I've only got a minute left, Professor, I wanted to get you just briefly to speak to the deafening silence about all of this from the vast, vast majority of Republicans enabling him as they have on so many other outrageous things.
LEVINSON: This is something that we have to grapple with in America in the next year and years and perhaps decades.
Which is -- and you and I have talked about this -- but the idea that the Republican Party which really just stood for different policy ideas; for small government as opposed to the Democrats who believed that government really did have a larger role.
The Republican Party has become the party of Trump, they said this when it came to the National Convention, that their plan was just to reelect him.
And the idea that they would be supporting lies and conspiracy theories and really just outright fabrications that undermine our very faith in our system of government, I don't think we can pretend on January 20th that this didn't happen.
And a big question will be the future of the Republican Party and whether or not it will split off between Trump supporters and the kind of old fashioned policy Republicans.
HOLMES: Yes. A lot of people wondering about that. And perhaps whether progressives on the left might do the same. It could be interesting, couldn't it?
Professor Jessica Levinson, great to see you as always there in Los Angeles.
LEVINSON: Happy holidays.
HOLMES: And we are going to take a break and then we will head across the pond next where the deal is done.
The U.K. and the European Union forging a landmark trade agreement bringing an end to the contentious Brexit talks. But what does it all mean going forward?
We'll be right back. [02:15:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(HIGHLIGHT CNN)
BRIAN CHESKY, CEO, AIRBNB: People are still yearning to travel. But they're traveling differently than they used to. They're not crossing the borders, they're not traveling for business but what they're doing is they're getting in a car and they're going two or 300 miles to nearby destinations and they're staying in homes.
What the guests have told us is they'd rather be in the private space of an Airbnb than crowded hotel lobbies or for crowded elevators.
And one of the things we did, we brought in the former surgeon general of the United States, Dr. Vivek Murthy, and we worked with him to develop an enhanced cleaning protocol which is basically cleaning guidelines the host can get trained on and go through.
More than 1 million listings have already gone through the cleaning guideline and we're working really, really hard for this.
But what we're hearing is people don't want to stay in crowded cities, they want to have a home to themselves. And this is why I think homes are becoming a really popular way for people to travel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(HIGHLIGHT CNN)
MICHAEL CLERIZO, AUTHOR & CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "WALL STREET JOURNAL" MAGAZINE: When a watch does things beyond simply telling time, we call those functions complications.
And when we talk about watches with complications, we have to talk about Patek Philippe, the most prestigious of prestigious Swiss match brands.
And a classic example of what Patek Philippe can do is the perpetual calendar chronograph.
Now a perpetual calendar mechanically keeps track of days and months and dates. It also let's you know if it's day or night, it keeps track of moon phases and it let's you know when it's a leap year. Now that's a lot for a mechanical watch to do.
When we talk about the Patek Philippe perpetual calendar, we're talking about one of the great watches. This is a major feat in watchmaking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: After days of chaos in the British port of Dover, some are crying out for help. Thousands of truck drivers have been stranded trying to cross the border to get to France. As if months of Brexit dead -- gridlock hadn't been bad enough,
coronavirus regulations are making things worse.
Drivers now need to have a negative test result within 72 hours in order to cross meaning many of them are spending Christmas in that utter mess.
Now, while in London British Prime Minister Boris Johnson celebrating something that could help ease that gridlock. A last-minute post- Brexit trade agreement with the European Union.
He tweeted a Christmas video message late on Thursday saying the deal brings certainty to businesses, travelers and investors in the U.K.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: You remember the oven ready deal by which we came out on January the 31st ? That oven ready deal was just the start; this is the feast. Full of fish, by the way.
And I believe it will be the basis of a happy and successful and stable partnership with our friends in the E.U. for years to come.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: What he was holding up there is a 2,000-page trade agreement.
[02:20:00]
It's got to be translated and then reviewed by all 27 E.U. member states who have to sign off on it. The British and European parliaments, though, are expected to approve it.
CNN's Nic Robertson with the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, it seemed a very relieved Boris Johnson when he took to the podium to announce that the free trade deal with the European Union had been done.
A jumbo Canada style free trade agreement is how he called it. He said that Britain had done and the politicians had done what they promised to do when the referendum took place in 2016. And that was deliver on taking back control.
JOHNSON: We've taken back control of our laws and our destiny. We've taken back control of every jot and tittle of our regulation in a way that is complete and unfettered.
From January the 1st, we are outside the Customs Union and outside the single market, British laws will be made solely by the British parliament, interpreted by U.K. judges sitting in U.K. courts. And the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will come to an end.
ROBERTSON: Well, the prime minister also accented that with that taking back control and having access to the European single market without quotas, without tariffs for the most part, would still come with the potential of penalties, both sides being able to after arbitration take action, punitive perhaps on tariffs, quotas with the other side.
Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president spelling that out to how it may work over fisheries.
She said there was now predictability for E.U. fishermen for the next five and-a-half years as part of a fishing deal that she said there would be a strong incentives for the U.K. to make sure that it conformed to the agreement in the future.
But for her part, she talked about this as being a moment also tinged with some sadness.
URSULA VON DER LEYEN, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT: And ladies and gentlemen, at the end of a successful negotiations journey, I normally feel joy.
But today I only feel quite (ph) satisfaction and frankly speaking relief. I know this is a difficult day for some. And to our friends in the United Kingdom I want to say parting is such sweet sorrow.
But to use a line from T.S. Elliot, "What we call the beginning is often the end. And to make an end is to make a beginning."
So, to all Europeans, I say it is time to leave Brexit behind. Our future is made in Europe.
ROBERTSON (On Camera): So the deal will go to the European Parliament for ratification, Boris Johnson saying that it would go to the British Parliament on the 30th of December where it's expected to pass.
Big changes, he said, for the British people to come into force January the 1st.
Nic Robertson, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: And joining me now from London, Richard Whitman is a professor of politics at the University of Kent and a U.K. and Europe fellow at Chatham House.
Good to see you, professor. So deal done, a quote, "Canada jumbo style deal." But what do you make of what we know, how good a deal is it for Britain and Europe for that matter? We really don't know all the details.
RICHARD WHITMAN, PROFESSOR OF POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF KENT: Well, if this was a deal that the E.U. was doing with a third country, a country that hadn't been a member state, then it would be a that would be kind of praised to the heavens.
But, of course, this is really walking back from what had been a fully liberalized trading relationship between the two sides.
So it's highly unusual in a trade deal when you're stepping back from fully liberalized trade.
HOLMES: Just one small thing that might be a reality check for the average person. Things like not being able to use E.U. lines at airports and so on, having to get a visa when they go to Europe.
But in a broader sense how might life change for Britons?
WHITMAN: Well, really, since the U.K. left at the end of January, things haven't changed at all for citizens or businesses. And from the first of January, even with this deal, that's when these sort of changes kick in.
As you say, U.K. nationals that are no longer E.U. nationals which means at airports you're standing in a different line.
But also for businesses, importantly, there are all sorts of border checks that you now face. Basically, U.K. businesses have got to make sure that they conform with E.U. rules.
And the E.U. border officials are going to check that you pay goods due. So that means more friction at the border, more paperwork and more costs obviously.
HOLMES: I guess 2021 is a vastly different economic landscape to 2016 when the Brexit vote was held.
[02:25:00]
Really we have a world that's dominated by sort of three big economic blocks; the U.S., China and European Union. And now Britain is on its own isolated in many ways, trade wise.
Is it a good time to be a global free trader? What sort of risks lay ahead?
WHITMAN: Well, I think the question you raise is really the unknown. This is where the Brexit process is stepping into something which is very different for the U.K.
It moved from being part of one of the largest single market, single economic spaces, into having its own internal market. And that means it sits alongside A-zone (ph) which has a lot of regulations for the U.K. if you want to export into their markets.
So what space and what opportunity exists for the U.K. in the position it will find itself? We're going to have to wait and see.
HOLMES: Four years after the vote -- and you live in country there -- what's the feeling, the level of buyer remorse, perhaps, among the average person that Brexit has happened at all?
Is there still wide support for the idea itself or what -- perhaps a level of regret? WHITMAN: We've got a very polarized public. If you look at polling,
essentially those who voted to remain still feel that they want to be part of the E.U. and those who leave still held to their view.
And because nothing's really changed for most members of the public, most members of the electorate, I think we have to wait into next year when these changes kick in before we see whether there is any sort of buyer's remorse particularly on the part of leavers.
HOLMES: And just finally and briefly, if you will. What now for U.S- U.K. trade especially with a sort of multinationalist president about to take the reins?
WHITMAN: Well, listen, for the U.K. a trade deal with the U.S. would be a big post-Brexit win for U.K. trade policy. So that's the one to watch, really.
Does leaving the E.U. give the U.K. an opportunity which it didn't have within the E.U. which is a really ambitious trade deal.
HOLMES: Richard Whitman in London. Professor, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
All right. Hospitals across the U.S. are being pushed to the brink. Even with vaccinations underway, one key model is projecting things could get worse by spring.
We'll have more on that coming up next.
[02:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: The holidays are far from immune to the coronavirus. For a second day in a row, Japan hitting a record number of daily infections, reporting more than 3700 new cases on Christmas Eve, similar situation in South Korea, more than 1200 new infections there added on Thursday. That nation's highest daily case count, since the pandemic began.
In Europe, Italy, capping another milestone the country surpassing 2 million confirmed infections, since the start of this crisis and in the U.S. an influential model, once again raising its predictions, it's says the U.S. death toll could surpass 560,000 by April. Right now, there are a record number of Americans being treated for the virus to. Leaving many hospitals at, or near, capacity, the nation's top infectious disease expert saying, even he hasn't taken a day off in a month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR U.S. NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASE: The days, they just go, melt, one into and another. You lose track of time, and I think many people have experienced what I've experienced. It is like one big blur that started in the middle of January of 2020, and is still, somewhat, of a blur. As we get to the end of December of the same year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Let's talk about all of this, with CNN Medical Analyst, Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He is also a Professor of Medicine at George Washington University. Doctor, appreciate you being with us. Christmas Day, and we already know that millions of people have despite the advice of people like yourself traveled around the country to celebrate. Now we know what happened after recent holidays of course. Can we expect another surge in the weeks ahead?
DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I think, unfortunately, we can Michael. In the last several days, around 1 million people have been traveling by air in the United States, every day. And it is incredibly frustrating for me, because if you start to look at the numbers in the United States, we have just started to see a glimmer of hope, and in terms of the total number of cases per day, which is just starting to trend down.
And when you look at regions like the Midwest, and the northeast, you are really seeing tangible evidence that. Perhaps, daily numbers of cases are starting to drop. But unfortunately, with all of this holiday travel, I think what we can look forward to is another spike. About 2 weeks down the road. Really, really frustrating.
HOLMES: Absolutely. I imagine it is frustrating, and this is perhaps a side note, because it is Christmas. But is it frustrating, the message being sent, when the President is golfing and Florida, and the Vice President who's head of the COVID task force, is skiing in Colorado.
REINER: Yes. It's maddening. Look we are in a national emergency, and Americans are dying every day. Our hospitals are packed, we don't have enough nurses to care for the sick, and yet, our leadership is pretending that this is just another winter holiday. How can you go skiing if you are the head of the pandemic task force?
How can you be skiing now? There has been all of this concern about the new variance in the U.K., and South Africa, and questions about whether we meet travel restrictions, or test the passenger. We should have daily briefings from the pandemic task force, except, now we are going to see the leader carving some turns in veil. It is hard to understand.
HOLMES: Three and a half thousand Americans are been dying in recent days, every day and the people traveling for Christmas, as we said, despite those vaccinations. How concerned are you about what is still to come in the weeks ahead?
REINER: I think it's going to be going to be really quite dark. We are going to see, over the next months, probably, 100,000 more people die. And we will slowly start to get better, as our vaccination rate increases.
[02:35:00]
And hopefully, if we can convince more people in this country to mask up, we've see a little bit of an increase in the last few weeks. We've gone from 71 percent, 72 percent, to something like 76 percent or 77 percent. And that might be one of the reasons why we're starting to see a down ticket cases.
But the IHME has suggested that if we could get masking to 95 percent of this country, a feat that we've never closely approached. We can probably save about 45,000 lives the spring. I have no hopes that we will be able to get to that level, but as we increase masking, we save lives. And we need to just hammer that message, and the incoming administration looks like they are going to very strongly stress 100 percent unmasking the United States in the first 100 days.
HOLMES: You mentioned the numbers there, saying tens of thousands of lives, and it just strikes me, do you feel that there's or it probably won't happen to me attitude out there people? People who went to thanksgiving gatherings, right now, are getting sick, or dying. There seems to be still in appreciable sense of, I don't know, in civility, or devil may care out there? People - the numbers, the enormity of it, I think, where do you think?
REINER: I think it is multi-factorial. I think there is some of that, some people just denying that they are at risk. I think there is pandemic fatigue. We've been at this now for almost 10 months. And, I think, that a certain portion of the population has been told, by leadership, that this is a hoax. And if you are invited to attend a giant rally, during the pandemic, how dangerous can it be? So we need consistent messaging going forward about the risks to everyone in this country. The virus obviously doesn't care about party affiliation, but we need a consistent message, and I'm hoping it will reach more people.
HOLMES: Yes. Those numbers, as we keep saying, every one of them is a person. Dr. Jonathan Reiner, always a pleasure. Thank you for being with us.
REINER: My pleasure Michael, thank you.
HOLMES: Coming up here on CNN Newsroom, the U.S. President's decision to pardon convicted war criminals, raising huge, painful questions, about the American justice system. We will talk about it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Now earlier this week, President Donald Trump pardoned four Former Military Contractors, who work with the U.S. Security Contractor, Blackwater in 2007, they opened fire on a crowd in Baghdad. Look at the damage that was done. 17 Iraqi civilians, including children were killed. 20 other people wounded many of them severely. The FBI found 14 of the killings were unjustified before Blackwater guards convicted, and sent to prison, after a very thorough legal process. Whatever justice was done for the victims and their families after the massacre though, was undone in an instant with those pardons. And painful, emotional wounds are being reopened. CNN'S Arwa Damon, reports.
ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: The horror filled memories of that day in September of 2007, still haunting those who survived. Whose physical scars may have healed, but who grapple with the psychological trauma nearly every day.
I remember seeing a woman, and her son. Their car was on front, it was on fire. She was crying out until she burned to death with her son. Her son Jaber Salman says. There were so much gunfire, it wasn't normal. Bodies just fell in the streets. I wasn't wounded yet, I move my car to get away, and I was shot multiple times.
It was a sunny day in Baghdad, one where the population could almost pretend their country wasn't being ravaged by violence. But, those illusions were shattered quickly in Iraq. In an instant, a busy Baghdad roundabout, almost so square, turned into a streak of blood. Alia Abul Razzaq (ph) was the youngest victim, just 9 years old. Shot in the head, in the back seat of his car, as his father helplessly watched him die.
My son was the heart of our family, his father Mohammed told us, years ago. The shooting rampage was carried out by what was then, Blackwater, a Private Security Company, notorious for its brutish and trigger-happy behavior. Blackwater claim that its personnel were under attack, although numerous eyewitness in this account said that that was not true.
From his hospital bed at the time, Salman had described how Blackwater operatives it's opened fire indiscriminately, and civilians. No one fired at Blackwater they were not attacked by gunmen, they were not targeted, he said. Salman traveled to the U.S. to testify almost 7 years after the massacre. In the end, one of the Blackwater operatives was sentenced to life in prison. 3 others sentence from 12, to 15 years. Salman a lawyer himself felt as if there was a semblance of justice.
A renewed his faith in American ideals. Not anymore. President Trump, the first recent U.S. President to pardon convicted killers, let the murderers, the man who destroyed his life, walk free.
I say to him, your decision? You are going to have to face god on this, Salman says. You did not fulfill justice. You pardon the criminals, and the killers. The blood of the dead and the wounded is on your hands. Arwa Damon, CNN Istanbul.
HOLMES: With me now is Paul Dickinson he's a Litigation Attorney, who represented victims and families of the Nisour Square massacre. It is terrific to be able to get your perspective on this. You know the families of some of these victims some of those wounded as well, people who are just going about their business that day. You had success on their behalf, and then, now this. What is your reaction to the pardons?
PAUL DICKINSON, ATTORNEY: Thank you Michael for having me. The pardons are disappointing. What the U.S. government did was they had promise these victims, those who were killed, and those who were injured in the Nisour Square that day that they would hold people accountable for their criminal actions, for their crimes. And as you know, there is a long history to the criminal prosecution, and diagnose were dismissed, there was retrials and things like that.
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Every time there was a setback the prosecutors the U.S. Justice Department told these victims that were going to continue to fight for them.
And they're going to hold people accountable. And up until a few days ago, the U.S. government had done that. And now they had the rug lurched out from under them and left them falling, without any legal support and without the ability to hold people accountable for their crimes. And that is unfortunate not just to them but to a broader spectrum on how people think about the United States abroad, and in other countries.
HOLMES: It's important I think note that this conviction were not rushed or, somehow, unfair and that perhaps could have lead to pardons. This was the biggest FBI investigation since 9/11, multiple court hearings trialed. These were solid convictions. I just want to play for people what Thomas O'Connor who lead the FBI response team, had to say about it.
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THOMAS O'CONNOR, LED FBI EVIDENCE RESPONSE TEAM 2007 MASSACRE: The forensic evaluation of physical evidence linked with those interviews, are what brings the case forward. So in this investigation, we did just that. We used physical evidence to show the story of what happened. And really, what happened, the bottom line, is that were no incoming rounds to rate in 23.
There were none that could be found. The evidence, we were told was their - of incoming rounds impacting one of the vehicles. By the time we got to review the vehicle, it had been painted, they had been sanded, and there was no evidence there. But we were able to show, through forensic evidence, that the impacts on that vehicle were done through M2 or M3 grenade that was fired by one of the Blackwater guards himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And Paul Dickinson the thing about that, as we hear there from the FBI investigator, this was not some frivolous conviction, was it?
DICKINSON: Absolutely not. And the important thing is, this is what I was referring to before is that, the process worked to protect these four that were convicted. If there were any irregularities in the way the courts felt that evidence was not gathered, but evidence was providers to the prosecutors by the FBI, and there were some concerns about how that process would work, the court shut it down, and said, go back, re-indict these individuals, start from scratch FBI, start from scratch Justice Department, and ensure every eye has got it, and every tee is crossed in your investigation and in the prosecution process.
And that is what they did. And they had problems with it, they overcame them the court made sure made certain, that these four men got - that were trialed. And I think the argument is, somehow, there is a vendetta against, them it was a witch hunt. I think the opposite is true. What this shows is that the U.S. legal system worked in this case. These men were tried fairly they were convicted of their crimes, and they deserved every minute that they were sentenced to serve in jail.
HOLMES: And then of course it was to many of us who spent time in Iraq consider outrageous and unspeakable pardons. I mean something you wrote about, in recent days, and I wanted to quote it for people because it really does speak to me. You said this. The result is not just that we see an injustice in the United States, but that the world must, surely, see cracks in the pillars of justice on which was based. There may be the overriding damaged caused by this pardons and I know in my time in Iraq I would often hear Americans say, why do they hate us? Is this sort of thing not why they hate us?
DICKINSON: I am a lawyer. I believe in the U.S. legal system. I think the world admires the U.S. legal system. We have something here in the United States that the other countries strive to obtain. And in this case, what I am concerned about or what other should be concerned about is when we make promises to people, like we did to the victims here in Nisour Square that those people relied on it. And I think just not the victims of the Nisour Square, but everyone else around the world.
And the United States has a presence worldwide, and when we send paramilitary contractors into those countries, we had to make sure that we are going to hold those people accountable and as you know, the Blackwater contract with the U.S. State Department had immunity language in it so that Blackwater, and all of its contractors in Iraq were immune both from criminal and civil liability in Iraq. So the only place they could be brought to justice was in the United States.
That is what we did in our civil case against them. The way that Backwater acted in Iraq, the regular U.S. military, generally, despises them because of the immunity that they had.
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Because they didn't have to operate under the normal rules of engagement, they didn't follow the rules that the irregular U.S. army did. Who acted honorably, and did what they were supposes to do.
HOLMES: Paul Dickinson, well put. Thank you for representing those people and our thoughts with the 17 men, women, and children, who were killed, and 20 wounded in that attack. Really, appreciate your time. Thank you so much.
DICKINSON: Thank you Michael for having me, I appreciate it.
HOLMES: And we will be right back.
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HOLMES: Welcome back. A White Christmas might be in the cards for some parts of the U.S. for others, there is actually a risk of flooding, and dangerous winds. Meteorologist Derek Van Dam is tracking Christmas weather for us on the East Coast. Good to see you Derek, I know that here in Atlanta, it is a bit chilly.
DEREK VAN DAM, CNN INTERNATIONAL WEATHER ANCHOR: Yes. We even have some snowflakes here, which made for a pleasant surprise on Christmas Eve here in Atlanta. Rarely do we get snowfall here, we all know that. But just a week ago, I was reporting from Boston, for a previous winter storm that dumped up to 3 feet of snow across upstate New York, and into Pennsylvania.
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Well, now, the opposite has happened. This is the scrooge that took away the White Christmas for many along the East Coast. Because it's just too warm, a lot of this precipitation falling, in the form of rain.
Our radar here letting up like a Christmas tree no pun intended. On the backside there was enough winter weather to cause some beautiful scenes. Check this out. Coming out of Ohio you can see how spectacular the Christmas scene is there. But of course, this has issues with the road conditions. Even some of the truck drivers delivering packages around the East Coast having some trouble there. You can see the slick spots on the roadway.
So let's get to the details behind the storm because the rapid melting of last week's winter storm, the snow that was on the ground is going to cause the potential for flash flooding throughout this region with the additional rain that is falling. Of course, again a moderate threat of flash flooding from Vermont and New Hampshire upstate New York and Pennsylvania where we had our heaviest amounts of snow in the last week.
Still an additional one to two inches of rain on top of what's already fallen through the area, on top of this there are wind gusts in excess of 60 miles per hour. I mean we are nearing hurricane forces along the coast areas of Massachusetts, into the Denmark of Peninsula. It's a breezy day, and rather uncomfortable day. Good news is, Michael, not as many people traveling this year because of all the restrictions with COVID and the pandemic, Michael.
HOLMES: Yes, indeed. Good to see you Derek Van Dam and Happy Christmas to you, and to your lovely family.
DAM: Same to you. Thank you.
HOLMES: Thank you. I'm Michael Holmes appreciate your company, spending part of your Christmas perhaps with me. CNN Newsroom continues with my colleague Kim Brunhuber after a short break. He is known to sing Christmas carols. Happy Holidays to everyone celebrating around the world.
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