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Hospitalizations Growing at an Alarming Rate; House to Vote Today on Increasing Stimulus Payments of $2,000; Sen. Marco Rubio (R- FL) Attacks Dr. Fauci, Says He Lied About Masking. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired December 28, 2020 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DR. CRAIG SPENCER, DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL HEALTH IN EMERGENCY ROOM MEDICINE, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Proven to help is a steroid injection, which isn't anything new or fancy or multibillion dollar pharmaceutical invention.

[11:30:09]

This is something that we've had for decades.

The reason that the death rate has been much lower than it was in the northeastern in this pandemic is that health care providers haven't been as overstretched throughout this outbreak. When we had COVID patients coming in severely ill, it takes four or five, six providers sometimes up to an hour or two to stabilize them. There's only a limited number of providers.

So if we have an increasing number of patients with the same set number of providers, clearly, there's going to have to be some give and take and we have to think about where we concentrate our mental and our physical resources. Yes, we can get more ventilators, yes, we can get all that hard stuff. But what we really need right now is that sweat power and that sweat equity of so many health care providers who have already been dealing with this for ten months and are quite exhausted.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN NEWSROOM: Yes. I can't imagine the level of exhaustion.

We're learning today that the vaccine from Novavax is actually headed into its phase three clinical trials. What's the impact of having more vaccines in the pipeline?

SPENCER: We need as much vaccine as possible. We were hoping to get 20 million -- at least the promise was that we would get 20 million doses out and injected by the end of December. As you pointed out, we've only had 2 million. We've had more new cases of COVID in the past few weeks than we have the number of people who have been vaccinated against it.

We need as much vaccine as possible. And we need people to understand and trust the vaccine, not just here in the United States, where it's still going to be many months before the majority of the population gets vaccinated but really all around the world. There are health care providers in sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia, and other places that, quite frankly, are at higher risks and don't have the same protections, same PPE, many of the resources we have. We need to make sure that those providers everywhere, health care providers and others, are safe as well. So, having more vaccine, more doses of this, more options, just gives us more flexibility and the ability to do that much faster.

KEILAR: I'm curious about how many Americans are going to need to be vaccinated. Dr. Anthony Fauci says it's going to take 70 percent to 85 percent being vaccinated in order to reach herd immunity. Does that range of numbers make sense to you?

SPENCER: I think so. Look, the reality is that we just don't know. It could be potentially higher than that. It's hard to say. What we do need to do is make sure that as many people who want to get vaccinated are able to get vaccinated and that people have correct, reliable information about the vaccine as opposed to getting this information from their aunt or uncle's Facebook page.

There's a lot of misinformation and disinformation floating around right now. A lot of the anti-vaccine movement is using this opportunity to undermine not just faith in the COVID vaccine but in other vaccines, which have been life-saving for decades, that's not longer in this country.

So, yes, it's really important that we all get vaccinated. We're going to need 75, maybe 80, maybe 85 percent, we just don't know. But we need as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible to end this pandemic. But in the coming months, the thing that's going to save more people, not a rapid vaccine rollout, it's the same things we've been talking about all day long, masks, distancing, avoiding indoor places, especially those with poor ventilation and just being safe. We need to do that for a little bit longer.

KEILAR: All right. Just hang in there a little longer. Dr. Craig Spencer, thank you so much for being with us.

SPENCER: Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: Up next, Democrats and some Republicans are slamming President Trump for delaying the signing of the pandemic relief bill. I'm going to talk with a Democratic member of the House of Representatives who is accusing Trump of playing Russian roulette with American lives.

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[11:35:00]

KEILAR: Today, the House is expected to vote on increasing stimulus checks to Americans to $2,000 after President Trump delayed signing the coronavirus relief package and government spending bill into law for nearly a week, likely preventing unemployed Americans from receiving assistance during the final week of the year.

One Democratic congressman shared this message on the president's delay, quote, in threatening to veto the COVID relief and government funding bill, Trump played Russian roulette with American lives, a familiar and comfortable place for him. And that congressman, Gerry Connolly of Virginia, is with us now to talk about this.

Obviously, you and even a number of Republicans are very much opposed to the president's delay. How would you characterize what he's done over the last week?

All right, I think we're having a problem there with the congressman's signal, unfortunately. So, we're going to try to get Congressman Gerry Connolly right back up so that he can talk to us about this very important vote that is coming up in the House tonight on this $2,000 possible check instead of $600.

Coming up, Senator Marco Rubio is going after Dr. Fauci in a Twitter rant. He calls the nation's top infectious disease specialist a liar. Why senator is now being accused of hypocrisy.

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[11:40:00]

KEILAR: I want to bring Congressman Gerry Connolly of Virginia back to talk to us now that we have re-established our connection.

So we're talking right here ahead of the big vote tonight in the House, which would be to change those stimulus checks -- or to make them $2,000 for Americans. But I also wanted to just -- I think I have a sense of the characterization of what the president has done here in waiting to get this relief bill out the door, but how would you describe what he has done delaying this almost a week?

REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D-VA): Well, as you indicated, Brianna, I referred to it as playing Russian roulette with American lives and it literally is. You had a long session just before this with a doctor talking about how dire the situation is in hospital rooms.

[11:45:04]

You pointed out that we've gone from 16 percent of critical care COVID patients in hospitals to 40 percent.

Lives are at stake. There's money in that bill to rush the vaccine for administration and distribution. That was held up. 14 million Americans are going to find that their unemployment insurance has ended and interrupted because of the president at this dithering and playing games over whether he would sign the bill. So he played with lives. And this is a very serious situation and it was another example of his reckless, self-centered behavior, that, as I said, puts lives and the economy really in jeopardy.

KEILAR: Democrats, of course, support -- I mean, we're going to see this vote tonight, where Democrats support this $2,000 check in lieu of a $600 stimulus check. That is what the president says was one of the key reasons why he delayed this, that he wanted to see $2,000 versus $600. So just explain that to us why -- I mean, you support the $2,000 but you clearly don't support what he did.

CONNOLLY: No, what he did was reckless. And, frankly, if he wanted a higher amount, which Democrats wanted. Remember, we proposed $1,200 being extended from the CARES Act into the HEROES Act. It was Secretary Mnuchin, from his administration working with Republicans that lowered that dollar amount along with the unemployment dollar amount. So we're absolutely in the same place. We think Americans should get more.

And the burden is now going to be on his own party for him to deliver his own party in the vote we have tonight.

KEILAR: This vote will need two-thirds of the House. Republican leaders say that they're not whipping this. But, obviously, if this is going to pass, it's going to need support from Republicans. Do you think it's going to pass? It seems like there might be a chance. Do you expect that it will?

CONNOLLY: Hope springs eternal. We need 288 votes. That's two-thirds of the House. And the question then will be are there 50 or 60 Republicans who are willing to break ranks with their caucus in the House and join Democrats and President Trump in trying to provide more relief for American families that so badly need it.

So I'm hopeful but I'm not optimistic because that would be a change of behavior for my friends on the other side of the aisle that has been lacking entirely in the last four years.

KEILAR: Congressman, the president vetoed the defense bill that both the House and the Senate passed with veto-proof majorities before he vetoed it. The House is going to vote today on overriding Trump's veto. What is going to happen?

CONNOLLY: I think there's a good chance that we're going to override the veto in the House of Representatives. There are a number of Republicans who are deeply troubled by this veto. This was a carefully crafted bill. We've passed the defense authorization bill for 59 consecutive years without fail. And the president's reasoning for vetoing the bill were specious. They really had nothing to do with the defense bill. It had to do with his feuding with Google and Amazon and Facebook over a provision entirely unrelated to defense.

Meanwhile, we have got troops all over the world dependent on this bill, their compensation, their pay raise, the security of the United States. There are some huge new cyber security provisions in this bill we desperately need after the very successful and tragic cyber security hacking by the Russian military into scores of U.S. governmental and private sector entities.

So, this is a very important bill. And I think even my Republican colleagues get that. So I think we have a good chance to override the veto in tonight's vote.

KEILAR: So, optimistic maybe on this one, hopeful on the bill to increase the checks going out to Americans.

Congressman, thank you so much for being with us.

CONNOLLY: My great pleasure, Brianna. Thank you.

KEILAR: And ahead, Republican Senator Marco Rubio going after Dr. Anthony Fauci. We'll talk about that when we come back.

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[11:50:00]

KEILAR: Shot and chaser mere days after Florida Senator Marco Rubio received his first dose of the vaccine, something that he felt strongly enough to tweet about, he is back on Twitter attacking the nation's top infectious disease expert. Quote, Dr. Fauci lied about masks in March. Dr. Fauci has been distorting the level of vaccination needed for herd immunity, it isn't just him. Many in elite bubbles believe the American public doesn't know what's good for them so they need to be tricked into doing the right thing.

Now, Rubio seems to be referring to a New York Times article in which Dr. Fauci estimated that between 70 to 85 percent of the population needs to be vaccinated in order to achieve that herd immunity. This is an increase from the 70 to 75 percent number that he had previously cited.

Here with me now to discuss CNN Political Commentator Anna Navarro.

[11:55:00]

And, Anna, on one hand, you have Senator Rubio going after Dr. Fauci and those in, quote, elite bubbles, and then on the other hand, you have the fact that he has gotten the vaccine, he's trying to model this. He's gotten it, I should mention, before millions of health care and essential workers, many of them still outstanding on getting this.

So I wonder what your reaction is to these mixed messages coming from Marco Rubio.

ANNA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm flabbergasted by the level of hypocrisy. And, listen, I am a constituent of Marco's. I have known Marco for a very long time. We're about the same age. He is 49, a healthy 49-year-old. I am 49 today.

There's three parts to this tweet, right? First, he calls Dr. Fauci a liar. Let's just begin with that. Look, any Republican who, for the last four years, has been justifying, defending, being complicit with, playing stupid, standing silently, being cowardly as Donald Trump lies his way through the presidency for four years, if we all heard the Woodward tapes where Donald Trump has been lying about the level of danger posed by COVID, he knew about it in February.

And so if you have been okay with Donald Trump lying, if you have been supporting Donald Trump, who is the liar in chief, honestly, Pinocchio could come down with a sequoia tree as a nose and you don't have a leg to stand onto criticize and call out somebody for lying, not to mention that Dr. Fauci did not lie.

And then he goes on to question Dr. Fauci's scientific opinion. Listen, Dr. Fauci has been helping the American people, has been working as a public servant for the American people since 1984. Marco and I were in middle school, okay? Dr. Fauci turned 80 four days ago. He has been working consistently to keep us safe and he is a trusted voice.

And I know it is a novel opinion for many Republicans now who follow Trump, but, really, most of us prefer to believe in science than to believe in any politician.

And the third one might be the most galling of all, right, where he talks about an elite bubble. I mean, Brianna, as you point out, I will tell you what for me is the definition of an elite bubble. An elite bubble is Congress. And people in Congress who have skipped the line over elderly constituents, over frontline workers, over essential workers, over people who are infirmed and have co-morbidities and gotten vaccine before anybody else, that is an elite bubble. And if you don't realize it, look in the mirror.

KEILAR: And that's one of the things I want to ask you about, because when you have so much questioning of science, on one hand, you could argue that Senator Rubio -- that it's very important, especially because of the elderly population among his constituents, it is important for him to model getting that vaccine, that he thinks it is safe enough to take the vaccine into his body, but then in the next breath, for him to be questioning science and undercutting science, undercutting the very vaccine that he is taking.

NAVARRO: Well, I can't interpret those mixed messages. Look, he has gotten a lot of heat for being a healthy 49-year-old without co- morbidity who skipped the line. There are some in Congress, Republican and Democrats, people like Elise Stefanik, Republican of New York, people like Ilhan Omar, Democrat of Minnesota, who are about the same age group as Marco and who have decided that they're going to wait until their constituents get it. There is Governor Larry Hogan of Maryland, who is in his 60s, who's had bouts of cancer and who has decided to wait until his elderly constituents and medical staff get it.

And I think he has gotten a lot of heat from posing for that picture together with a stupid tweet about how his arm needed a tan and, as you know, now trying to somehow do a little CYA and justify the fact that, unlike other politicians, he did skip the line, though he represents a state that has an overproportion, disproportionate amount of elderly and people affected. It's been one of the hardest-hit by COVID.

Really, it is outrageous. It's outrages, it's hypocritical and it makes no sense.

KEILAR: Anna, it's great to see you. Thank you for joining us. I hope you had a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you.

NAVARRO: Thank you, same to you. KEILAR: Anna Navarro joining us from Florida.

It is the top of the hour. I am Brianna Keilar.

And after months of uncertainty and days of drama, relief for millions of Americans is finally on its way. Last night, President Trump signed the COVID relief bill and he averted a government shutdown, but not before he held it hostage and threatened to dismantle the very deal that his own administration negotiated.

[12:00:08]