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Senate Faces Critical Votes On Relief Checks, Trump Veto Override; Fauci: U.S. Is "Below Where We Want To Be" On COVID Vaccinations; Source: Biden Weighing Cuts To U.S. Nuclear Modernization Program. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired December 29, 2020 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: But obviously the big news here is on these stimulus checks. And this is where the disagreement is between Democrats and Republicans, increasing the amount of these stimulus checks from $600 to $2,000. And we certainly saw some action there on the Democratic side about how to put the pressure on Republicans over this.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, that's exactly right. I mean, I want to back up to what McConnell said on the floor. Essentially, he didn't give us any more clarity about what he plans to do about these $2,000 stimulus checks. What you saw was a little bit of theatricals from Senate Democrats who saw Chuck Schumer asking for unanimous consent agreement.

We long expected this to fail, essentially any one senator could object. That's what you saw McConnell doing to that $2,000 stimulus check bill. But there was no clarity on whether or not McConnell plans to bring this up for a standalone vote. Then you saw Senator Bernie Sanders, an independent from Vermont, essentially saying I object to you bringing up the NDAA veto override vote tomorrow, if you won't guarantee that there is going to be a vote on these stimulus checks.

And again, McConnell said, I am not going to make that guarantee essentially objecting to Bernie Sanders's request on the floor there. I know that's a lot of moving pieces. But at the end of the day, what this means is that we are still in limbo as to whether or not we are going to see a vote on the Senate floor over these $2,000 stimulus checks.

And just a reminder, this is something President Donald Trump wants to see. This is something that over the last several hours, we've seen both Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue, two Republicans running for reelection in the state of Georgia with a runoff slated on Tuesday of next week. That's what we're seeing right now. We still don't know what the majority leader is going to do next. Brianna?

KEILAR: And I want to bring Scott Jennings into this conversation, Lauren. He is of course a longtime strategic adviser to Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. OK, so it was just as you said, it's like you maybe knew something, Scott, he wasn't going to be addressing specifically these checks.

But this is the elephant in the room right now. So explain to us as we don't know what Mitch McConnell is going to do exactly here. But how is it that he would and perhaps there is a clear answer to this, how would he buck the will of House Republicans of the President of it appears American public opinion of the Republican senators who are in Georgia, who this has really become the crux of the race there for them as they are trying to maintain Republican control in the Senate. How would Mitch McConnell push back against all of that pressure to keep the stimulus check at $600 instead of 2,000?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's not clear that he will. I think what is right in front of him today is trying to figure out where most people in the Senate Republican Conference are. I think there are going to be some votes in the Republican conference against raising these check amounts. And there are going to be some votes for it.

What's not clear is how many fall on which side. And he also raised the issues that the President has raised, which I think the White House considers important, the Section 230 issue and also voter fraud issue that the President cares about. So he's not just wrestling with the $2,000 checks. He's wrestling with two ancillary issues. And he's also got to figure out where most people in his conference are.

So I didn't interpret today's speech as a, we're not doing anything. I interpreted it as we're going to take these up. But I've got to get my ducks in a huddle, so to speak, before I can actually move on, on the floor on something.

KEILAR: So he's buying time, then?

JENNINGS: Absolutely. Because these senators haven't been together, I think they need to talk amongst themselves and figure out how they want to tackle not just the $2,000 issue, but the other issues the President has raised. So yes, I think he was buying a little bit of time. It was obvious from his remarks. He really cares about getting the NDAA signed into law, because it's a pay raise for the troops. And he considers that to be among other issues, very vital and important as well.

But yes, I think he needs a little bit of time to see how the Senate Republican conference wants to proceed. I agree with you that having the President and a House vote does put political pressure on the Senate Republicans to move. But it's not clear whether they are going to have the will inside the conference to move as a standalone matter or if it's going to be linked to other issues. And that's, of course, what they'll be discussing as a group as they meet throughout the rest of the day.

KEILAR: You know, we talk about all of these things that may be pushing hammer giving, putting some pressure on Mitch McConnell, the House Republicans voting in favor of this increase in the check, the Georgia Republicans, what we expect Americans want as well. But I don't know if there's anything that puts pressure on Congress like the possibility of working on a holiday. And that is clearly what Democrats are trying to achieve here. This is a certainly the goal of Bernie Sanders is to push some of this into -- onto New Year's Day. What do you think about that?

JENNINGS: Well, I think they will keep the Senate in session as long as it takes to at a minimum override the veto on the NDAA. And so I do think that McConnell is committed to that and they won't leave until that work is done. You could tell how passionately he felt about it.

[12:35:11]

Regarding the other matters, I mean, there could be a lot of procedural movement on the floor that keep them there. The Democrats have some leverage here, because obviously they've got a House vote sitting out there and bipartisan support for something that they want to do. I don't think McConnell would hesitate to keep the Senate in, although I'm sure a lot of members would be agitating that they would like to go home.

One other political dynamic I noted from last night's House vote was some of the President's biggest supporters in the House, did not vote with him on the $2,000 checks. Some of the most vocal magga (ph) people did not vote with him. And so you wonder how that's going to translate inside the Senate Republican conference. He doesn't have vocal supporters inside the conference. Are they going to stick with the President on $2,000 vote? Or are they going to back the President on that? That's something McConnell has to sort out as he counts noses inside of his conference.

KEILAR: As he indeed will be doing. Scott, thank you so much for being with us and helping us understand some of what's going on there joining us from Kentucky.

Vaccinations seriously behind schedule in the U.S. what has to be done and who needs to take the lead to get the country back on schedule, next?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:40:39]

KEILAR: President-elect Joe Biden is expected to call out the speed of the Trump administration's vaccine distribution today. Officials promising 20 million shots in people's arms by year's end but that reality is far from achievable as Dr. Anthony Fauci made clear this morning, we're not anywhere near where the administration predicted we would be.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: We certainly are not at the numbers that we want it to be at the end of December. You heard talking about 40 million doses for 20 million people. I mean, even if you undercount 2 million as an undercount, how much undercount could it be? So we are below where we want to be. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I'm joined now by Dr. Michael Mina, who is an epidemiologist in the Department of Immunology and Infectious Disease at the Harvard School of Public Health. Thank you so much for being with us, because this is a critical time that we need to get your expertise on this. I wonder what you want to hear from Joe Biden and what you want to hear about what needs to be done to speed up vaccinations?

DR. MICHAEL MINA, DEPT. OF IMMUNOLOGY & INFECTIOUS DISEASE, HARVARD SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Well, certainly the biggest limitations that we're seeing are the actual infrastructure that needs to be put in place to get these vaccines out to the communities. That is a massive overhaul. And we should have been starting to put that infrastructure in place six, seven, eight months ago, the moment really we started the whole Operation Warp Speed program.

That obviously has not come to fruition in the way that the current administration has touted. And so we want to see from the incoming administration a plan to put all this together and also a plan to mitigate spread now with for all of the millions of people who will not have early access to the vaccine. And that's through different programs like rapid testing and getting -- giving people tests that they can use in their homes that can actually work to sort of bridge the gap between now and when most Americans will actually be able to get a vaccine.

KEILAR: And so you tweeted this morning, something that I want to ask you about, you said we must slow spread, particularly as we roll out vaccines. The more transmission, more opportunities to squeeze virus through bottlenecks, what comes out the other side may end up evading immunity. What does that mean evading immunity?

MINA: Yes. So we're very concerned and the world should be concerned. If this virus can, we know that it can mutate. And if it mutates, so that the immune system no longer recognizes it as well, then the effectiveness of the vaccine can go down considerably. So we have to be monitoring for that for sequencing.

But we also need to limit the risk or lower the risk of that happening. And the best way to do that is to reduce the number of opportunities by reducing the amount of virus in the community. If we can slow the spread now and really reduce the amount of virus that's out in the broader world, then the virus has many fewer opportunities to mutate and find its way around people's immune systems.

KEILAR: So I want to ask you about this strain of coronavirus that we are seeing in the U.K. and I do remember an expert saying early on in this pandemic that viruses behave in such a way that they tend to become more transmissible and actually less deadly over time. But it appears at least we know that this is -- this strain is more transmissible, it's more contagious. And some health experts are assuming that it is already in the U.S.

Now that we're hearing that even despite lockdowns cases are still rising in London as the strain is spreading. How concerned should we be about this?

MINA: Well, this particular strain seems to be transmitting at least the evidence that we have today suggests it's transmitting much more readily. It's taking -- it's sweeping through the population and sort of replacing the other strains. The good thing is that on a case by case basis, it doesn't yet appear to be any worse in terms of the severity.

However, if it's transmitting more readily, then that means more people will get infected. And so overall, at the population level, more people will have severe disease, more people will die. So we should certainly be trying to do everything we can to slow all of the viruses down. I would say that this is, it would be extremely naive of us to assume that it's not already in the States. This is reminiscent of back in February, when we were assuming that the virus wasn't yet in the U.S. Of course it was. And this is a very similar issue. We're just not looking for the strain in the right way. So, you know, we're kind of burying our heads in the sand.

[12:45:13]

KEILAR: Yes, that's a good point. And just really quickly before I let you go. Do you think the vaccine still works on it? Is the spike protein here still a vulnerability in the new strain?

MINA: Absolutely. There's no evidence at the moment that the virus has mutated to evade the immunity derived from the vaccine. However, that's really why we need to be doing everything we can I think the best tool we have right now to stop that from happening in the future is testing.

KEILAR: Very good point. Dr. Michael Mina, thank you so much for being with us.

Still ahead, there are new details on what could become President- elect Biden's first reversal of President Trump. What we're learning about looming changes to the nuclear program, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:50:37]

KEILAR: President-elect Joe Biden is considering making cuts to the U.S. nuclear modernization program. This is according to two transition officials and an outside adviser to the incoming administration. They say the proposed changes would put more emphasis on arms control versus the Trump strategy of enhancing the country's nuclear arsenal. CNN national security correspondent Vivian Salama broke the story and she is joining us now to talk about it. What's behind the move here, Vivian?

VIVIAN SALAMA, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, first of all, if anyone was with us earlier in the hour, they just see how contentious an issue defense spending can be, so much so that we see Republicans even willing to push back on the President's own veto of the defense spending bill. And so President-elect Joe Biden when he comes to office is going to have an uphill battle with regard to potentially making cuts to the nuclear strategy that was currently in place.

But Biden and his advisors assert that the program has just grown so bloated in recent years, it started under Obama. But there was an aggressive push under the Trump administration to develop various new nuclear programs, including a land based ballistic missile. And so a lot of them saying these are unnecessary expenditures. You can still keep the country safe from nuclear warfare and not have to spend so much as the Trump administration did.

And so on the one hand, they say, let's trim the fat, let's look for places where we can cut and maybe reallocate those funds to the other things like conventional weapons, and of course, other programs as well, like for example, you know, helping the public with the aid and other things during the economic downturn. And of course, also not being provocative in terms of, you know, going and developing these weapons. It's do as we do not, as we say. Brianna?

KEILAR: And this is also a critical time, right, because this could come as this very important nuclear treaty with Russia is set to expire.

SALAMA: That's right. Sixteen days after Biden takes office, Brianna, this critical nuclear treaty with Russia is set to expire. Now, sources tell me that the Biden team is going to look to make a quick extension to that. But obviously, this is such an important issue and one where if we're going to be making cuts to the nuclear program, officials are going to want to know that we are still safe.

And so there's threats all over the world and a lot of people concern that if we make cuts to the nuclear program, we're more vulnerable. The Biden administration says they're going to focus on arms control, not on developing nuclear weapons, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Vivian, thank you so much great story that you broke, and thank you for bringing it to us.

President-elect Joe Biden is frustrated with Trump political appointees, who he says are obstructing the presidential transition as he prepares to take office in 22 days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: We've encountered roadblocks in the political leadership at the Department of Defense and the Office of Management and Budget. Right now, we just aren't getting all the information that we need for the ongoing and outgoing and from the outgoing administration, in key national security areas. It's nothing short in my view of irresponsibility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: You know, Biden is raising concerns about the need for a clear picture of the U.S. defense posture around the world as he prepares to become commander-in-chief. CNN's Joe Johns is in Wilmington, Delaware, he's following this for us. Joe, tell us how the Trump administration is responding to these accusations.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, they're pushing back hard. They say that what Biden said essentially is not true. They say there have been 167 meetings with the Biden team that exchanged a lot of paper. And in fact, they say there have been -- there's a situation where the vast majority, though, of the meetings that are supposed to occur in the future are going to occur after January 1st.

So that slows down the process. And when you look at the other things that have happened at DOD, a number of people have been fired by the President. We had the slow ascertainment. It took so long for GSA essentially to declare Biden the winner of the election. All of this adds up to the standard confusion that we've seen throughout the Trump administration.

And there is also this huge concern that that's going to end up as a slow start for Joe Biden and his administration, which is something neither Biden nor the country really can deal with at this time, Brianna.

[12:55:05]

KEILAR: Joe, I know you've covered a number of transitions. Have you ever seen anything like this?

JOHNS: No, no, I have not. And the fact of the matter is, if you look at history, they say the last time there was a transition like this one is all the way back to Herbert Hoover, which is a long time ago.

KEILAR: Yes, it certainly is. I haven't seen anything like it. So, Joe Johns, thank you so much live for us from Wilmington, Delaware.

And up next will Republicans break with the President on direct stimulus payments or is a coalition growing to support his demand for $2,000 checks? Brooke Baldwin continues our coverage after a quick break.

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[13:00:00]