Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Coronavirus case numbers and deaths soaring; New strain variant spreading worldwide; Trump and base challenging election results. Aired 12-12:30 ET

Aired December 31, 2020 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: It might be just this one, and here's one more reminder why. Today's celebrations in Times Square, now just one more normally massive event transformed by the pandemic - no packed crowds of partying people there this year. Police are saying stay away. Health officials warning everyone to avoid large gatherings and we're getting day by day reminders of why that is.

This New Year's Eve more than 340,000 people who were here for last year's countdown are gone, lost. A second day in a row of record deaths, we're approaching 4,000 dead in a single day. And a new CDC estimate says that another 80,000 Americans who will be here for the countdown tonight will die before the end of next month.

This is happening as the White House Coronavirus Taskforce admits that the vaccine rollout in this country is lagging far beyond this administration's own goals, even as a more contagious variant of the virus begins to pop up in more than one state here in the U.S. That new COVID strain first surfaced in Colorado, it's now also been confirmed in California. Dr. Fauci says we should expect it's in many more states already.

Let's go to CNN's Paul Vercammen, he's in Los Angeles. Paul, Los Angeles, I don't have to tell you - one of the worst hit parts of the country right now, hospitals overwhelmed. Tell us what you're seeing there.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN REPORTER AND PRODUCER: Well, just horrific conditions and now all eyes on San Diego, that's where the new variant strain of COVID-19 turned in a 30 year old man - his symptoms two days after Christmas. They wanted to determine if he had been travelling, and the answer to that is a flat no. Now, all of this came about when Governor Gavin Newsome, California and Dr. Fauci were having a conversation and Dr. Fauci talked about this variant, and he said that the vaccine will be able to defend against the variant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: When you get vaccinated the immune response that you make is called polyclonal, which means it's against many different parts of the virus. So even though you have one part of the virus that's changed, it is very likely that the other components of the vaccine induced response will protect you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: So the variant, just another thing to be concerned with in a state that has 20,000 hospitalizations currently, Jim - COVID-19 hospitalizations.

SCIUTTO: Tell us what this means for doctors and nurses in Los Angeles. Because as a result of this they now have to take on another really, just difficult, difficult role.

VERCAMMEN: They're already exhausted and heartsick, Jim. And now because relatives cannot go in to the hospitals to be with their loved ones who are sick with COVID, doctors and nurses are having to make phone calls - "the call," they call it. And they talk to that relative and they put them in touch with somebody who might be on the brink of being intubated or sort of losing their faculties, and it's just terrible, gut wrenching to hear how they have to do this time, and time, and time again. And in some cases they're even handing the patient an iPad so they can communicate with those loved ones, and they all cross their fingers and pray that it's not the last conversation with those loved ones, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Look, we've heard so many stories of that - where that's how people are forced to say goodbye. Goodness. Paul Vercammen, thanks so much for bringing us the news from there (ph).

Well, the CDC out with a new report that shows 2.7 million Americans have been vaccinated so far, that is far less than the 20 million the Trump administration projected we'd have in the arms of Americans by now. The fact is, weeks before that the president said 100 million would have had it by today.

CNN's Kristen Holmes joins us now.

Kristen, I know you've been looking in to what exactly has stood in the way here, what's happening? Why only 2.7 million when 20 million, 40 million, 100 million have been promised by now?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, so two things going on here - one is when you talk about that 40 million, 100 million many of those numbers were coming from President Trump who health officials say was overpromising at this point.

But then there's the other part of this which is what exactly is going on with the rollout so far that roughly, if we look at the numbers right now - we can put them up for you. More than 12 million have been distributed - vaccine doses, but as you said only 2.7 million are actually having been administered. So that's where the discrepancy is right this second.

Now, we're actually hearing from administration officials who, for the last weeks had been blaming this on lagging reports, saying it's just the usual lagging reporting from the states to the CDC. Now they are acknowledging that there is in fact a problem, that they don't know exactly what it is. They said it was a steep learning curve, but this isn't where they wanted to be.

[12:05:00]

When I talk to state officials they say the problem on their end is that they just don't have the resources, the training - everything that they need to get those shots in to arms. And now you're hearing these federal officials talking about how they can actually work with the states to get this done.

So as we move forward here, I am hearing from multiple federal officials who really do believe that this is going to become more of a seamless process. They're going to be able to one, ramp-up that production. Remember where we are in production right now.

Eventually we're going to need 330 million doses - we are nowhere near that right now, so they do believe there's going to be a process at some point where they are able to ramp up that production once the defense production act really kicks in, and they also believe that there's going to be a more seamless reporting so that people are actually reporting those numbers on time. But right now, Jim, the fact remains we are far, far behind where we thought we'd be at this time.

SCIUTTO: Kristen Holmes, thanks for kicking in (ph).

While U.S. vaccine distribution does lag, Dr. Anthony Fauci says an alternative plan is now being considered, one that would get more vaccines in to the arms of Americans by taking the second required dose, which is currently being reserved, and using it now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: That's under consideration, I still think if done properly you can do a single dose, reserve doses for the second dose and still get the job done. But there's a lot of discussion about whether or not you want to spread out the initial vaccination by getting more people vaccinated on the first round.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining us now is now is Dr. Amesh Adalja. He's a Senior Scholar at Johns Hopkins University Center for Health Security. Doctor, let's begin with the idea that Dr. Fauci is presenting here, these vaccine both the Moderna and the Pfizer one, just to remind folks at home, required two doses three, four weeks apart. He's suggesting, listen, get as many folks that first dose - worry about the second dose later. Smart plan?

DR. AMESH ADALJA, SENIOR SCHOLAR, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIV. CENTER FOR HEALTH SECURITY: I think it's something worth discussing, we know that one dose does give you some level of protection - not optimal protection, the dose studied was the two dose regimen, but I think we're in a public health emergency, we're having very huge lags in getting vaccine in to the arms of Americans, and you've already seen the United Kingdom take this approach.

It is something we need to discuss, I think it's also the case though that many states haven't been able to distribute the vaccines that they've got on-hand and that's also part of the lag. So there's multi factors - multiple factors kind of at play right now, so I don't know what the best solution is, but this has to be one on the table.

SCIUTTO: That's a problem, right? If states are having trouble getting this out there, and you hear of millions of doses still sitting on the shelves. The president has really checked out on this and he's saying it's all up to the states here. But I've been speaking to doctors all week, they make the point that many states just don't have the capability of doing this. And for one, we're putting an enormous burden on, private - for instance pharmacy chains like CVS to do it, to get it out themselves. Is that going to work? Or do we as a country have to rejigger - rework this plan?

ADALJA: I think the federal government needs to show leadership here. They cannot abdicate this to the states the way they abdicated testing to the states because we saw how disastrous testing was and still is. So we need to right now get the resources to the state and local health departments, to the hospitals. You have to remember that these are the same people that are taking care of patients, that are overtaxed because of the burden of the pandemic.

They have hospital staff that are out sick, they've got to then schedule clinics - they've got to do a lot of things at the same time as trying to distribute a vaccine in an unprecedented manner where you have to keep people there for 15 to 30 minutes after their vaccination shot to make sure they don't have any side effects.

There's a lot that we're asking of our state and local health department, of our hospitals, of our nursing homes. We need to give them resources, and this was all something we knew was going to happen. This is not unexpected, we knew this was going to be a herculean public health effort, and the federal government needed to step in a long time ago and get these plans much more solidified and not just leave it to the states without any kind of guidance or backup.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's not. I mean, the federal government under this president will not - he's made that clear. He's still tweeting virtually every day now, it's up to the states, it's not my problem. So we've got 20 days until you have a new president - how quickly can a new administration fix these problems, to ramp-up the level of vaccination?

ADALJA: It's going to be challenging for a new administration just as it's challenging now. I think you'll see more leadership and more recognition of this problem, and hopefully by the time the new administration takes over you'll start to see some acceleration as people get much more comfortable with the vaccinations so we'll start to pick up the pace.

But it is going to be something that is going to take months to do, that we are going to be talking about vaccine distribution issues for a very long time because this is going to be something that, like I said is one of the biggest public health efforts that we've ever undertaken as a country, and we saw problems even back during the 2009 H1N1 pandemic with that vaccination rollout. So this was all anticipated and it's going to be difficult, but I do think leadership and support of the states by the federal government, by the CDC - that's how we're going to get through this.

[12:10:00]

SCIUTTO: Final question, we have this new variant, it's in this country probably in more than the two states it's been confirmed in now according to Dr. Fauci and others not only is it more transmissible but there's now a U.K. study that shows that it is more transmissible among young people - and that's key. How significant?

ADALJA: Well if - we've seen so far that there's a lot of suggestive evidence that this new variant in the U.K. appeared at a time when they were seeing a surge in cases, and it does appear to be more contagious and the age groups that are getting it tend to be younger age groups. We have to though, make sure that we take that with a grain of salt because we don't know how much of that is just by chance because those are the people who are getting infected, and if it's a real change in the demographic.

But younger people getting infected sets up a transmission belt that those people could then give it to vulnerable individuals and those people could get hospitalized. And younger people tend to be more risk tolerant, and more able to go out and do things and not worry so much about the dire consequences. But the fact is they can transmit it to other people, so it does mean that we have to redouble our efforts to talk to people about what commonsense precautions they need to take for this strain, and any other strain of the virus.

SCIUTTO: Doctor Amesh Adalja, thanks very much.

ADALJA: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, President Trump heads back to D.C. earlier than planned. This is (ph) two key votes remain uncertain on Capitol Hill, and Republican Senators face a tough predicament ahead of January 6. Plus, it is New Years Eve, and CNN is still live in Times Square where the scene will be, in 2020 style, very different this year. What to still look forward to, and watch for as the iconic ball will still drop at midnight tonight.

(COMMERCIAL)

[12:15:00]

Well, right now as we speak, President Trump is on his way back to Washington, D.C. He abruptly cut short his Florida trip so he could be back in D.C. well ahead of January 6, when Republicans are planning to disrupt and challenge the certification by Congress, of Joe Biden's election win - already certified at the state level.

CNN's John Harwood is at the White House. John, what's the president coming back for?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We really don't know, Jim. The White House isn't saying, and President Trump didn't stop to talk to reporters on departure before boarding his plane in Florida. But here are a few things we do know - we know from great reporting by our colleague Kate Bennett that he was unhappy at Mar-a-Lago with the physical renovations of Mar-a-Lago. It's also not so much fun to host a big party when you've just lost an election, so he's leaving in advance of that party, and he's getting out of Mar-a-Lago.

Secondly, we know that the United States is concerned that Iran may launch some retaliation for the strike that killed Qasem Soleimani last year, and Iran is saying that the Trump administration, which has been very hawkish on Iran throughout its four year term is looking for a pretext to have some sort of a military conflict, so that's also there.

And third is what you mentioned, the president's attempt to contest the election that he lost with all sorts of fraudulent claims of fraud. And as part of that effort he has gotten some Republican members of the House and Senate to say they're going to step up and initiate a debate which is going to lose, but nevertheless will create a circus on January 6.

And he's also been setting out to embarrass Mitch McConnell who has recognized Joe Biden as the President Elect by - after signing the COVID Relief Bill that Mitch McConnell negotiated with the House and the Trump administration, he's now casting Mitch McConnell as the one standing in the way of those $2,000 stimulus checks - which Democrats have advocated, and that is something that is so helpful - that's the Democratic argument in the Georgia Senate runoffs, and Donald Trump's advocating that - amplifying that. So we just don't know how those various factors fit in to his motivation. Maybe we'll hear some more when he lands.

SCIUTTO: John Harwood, thanks very much.

Joining me now to discuss, Norm Eisen, he's former White House Ethics Czar under President Obama, also former Ambassador to the Czech Republic. Senior Fellow now at the Brookings Institution. Norm, good to have you on.

NORMAN EISEN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ETHICS CZAR: Jim, always great to be with you.

SCIUTTO: So on January 6, a handful of Republican members of Congress, plus now at least one Republican Senator are going to do the president's bidding here and challenge the election results. We shouldn't - we should call a spade a spade here. The president's attempting to overturn an election he lost. He'll lose, but tell us the significance of this effort anyway.

EISEN: Well Jim, it really is yet another dagger strike at the heart of our American democracy, the elections in which the American people express their will, and they've done that. There is a challenge mechanism under the Constitution, and under federal law it's called the Electoral Count Act which if you have (ph) one objection from a member of the House, and one objection from a member of the Senate you can force a debate. But the bottom line is, unless both houses agree these slates that are

being challenged are not going to be thrown out - that's the law. And it's not happening, this is a futility, they're just wasting time in the middle of a pandemic, in the middle of an economic crisis to pander to President Trump's ego and it's undermining faith in our democracy, it's terrible.

[12:20:00]

SCIUTTO: The final word in what is largely a ceremonial effort here on this day, is the Vice President's, Mike Pence. He has, in four years serving under this president rarely, I don't think ever challenged this president publically. How does he walk this fine line, preserve the relationship, not upset the base, et cetera? When it come to him to say the votes are in.

EISEN: The - fortunately because Mike Pence's failure to speak out against it, stand up to the president has been bad for the country, Jim. Fortunately his role on January 6, in this joint meeting of Congress is a ceremonial and a ministerial one. He convenes, he helps kick the thing off - he has no real power, and no real say. That is probably a lucky thing for him because he doesn't have to defy the president.

Now, he's under intense pressure to behave illegally, to insert himself, to meddle, to overreach the law and we'll just have to hope he doesn't do that because again, it undermines the faith of people in our democracy - without any basis, Jim.

SCIUTTO: The good news here, right, is that this claim has been rejected at every level, right? Every court - a whole host of Trump appointed judges included, rejected this. Supreme Court where three Trump appointees refused to take up these challenges. The Justice Department run by Bill Barr said no evidence of widespread fraud. Republican election officials in states recounts and recanvases, right - they've all rejected this. That's the good news.

That said, a minority of Republicans believe this election was free and fair, what is the damage to faith in the institution of the election?

EISEN: It is a good news, bad news story. This was the most successful election in the history of the United States. All the painful lessons of Bush versus Gore were learned, there's paper ballots - in places like Georgia they were counted not once, not twice, but three times. It was a success for both parties, Jim. And for the hardworking election officials and volunteers, and ultimately for the voters.

But Donald Trump's stoking his base with totally fraudulent and false claims that things were amiss does do long-term damage. There are tens of millions of people who think the foundation of our democracy is off (ph). And Jim, the solution is just what we're doing now - we need to keep explaining that it's not true, that this was a successful election, we need to celebrate the bipartisan success of it, and just get the truth out there as long as it takes. Fortunately the Trump appointed judges up to the Supreme Court are the

ones who ruled against him in 60 plus post election cases ...

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

EISEN: ... so that helps, and I hope over time the truth will get out.

SCIUTTO: Norm Eisen, thanks so much.

EISEN: Thanks, Happy New Year.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, the disturbing new report that China sought to fund attacks on U.S. troops in the Middle East. You may remember a similar report about Russia earlier this year. The president didn't talk a lot about that one - in fact, disputed that one - this one about China he's declassified. What we're learning from the intelligence, how the White House is reacting, next.

(COMMERCIAL)

[12:25:00]

Reports of American troops targeted by China. President Trump received that information earlier this month both in his daily brief, and in- person according to a senior administration official. The president was told that China sought to pay non-state actors to attack U.S. forces in Afghanistan. China has called it fake news.

Let me speak now to CNN National Security Correspondent Vivian Salama who has been tracking this story for us. Vivian, extremely reminiscent of early reports this year of both Russia and Iran allegedly offering Afghan militants bounties to attack U.S. forces. At the time Trump attacked, particularly the reports about Russia - now he's declassifying similar intel about China, what's behind this?

VIVIAN SALAMA, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Jim, it's a curious story definitely. Sources telling me that two weeks ago President Trump received information both in his presidential daily brief - so written and orally from his National Security Advisor Robert O'Brien, saying that China is looking to pay non-state actors could be anyone - could be the Taliban or anyone else in Afghanistan to target U.S. soldiers. And so this is a very, very strange episode now because the Trump administration is moving to declassify this information, according to the sources I spoke to.

Normally, Jim, you know of course covering intelligence as you have when you declassify something, typically you either want the public to know about it - and most importantly that the threat has passed. And so it's a very strange situation, why would they declassify it? That's like, the major question right now. But they have moved to declassify it. Now, I have to assert that this intelligence thus far has been uncorroborated and the Trump administration asserting that this is definitely

[12:29:00]